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Old 03-25-2018, 03:17 PM   #1
Neil Mylar LakewoodCA
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Exclamation Firewall date vs Number on frame

For those of you that have dates on your firewall, does the date appear to be before or after the date of the motor on your title?

I imagine it could go either way, but I'd like to see if there is a pattern.

Gas tanks were dated when they were tested.

Motors were stamped when they were initially tested and there is a chart that shows what date it was stamped.

I'm curious how those dates match up.

In other words, lets say the motor number on your title was stamped on June 1, 1929. Is the date on your firewall before or after that date?

Last edited by Neil Mylar LakewoodCA; 03-25-2018 at 03:21 PM. Reason: Spellcheck
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Old 03-25-2018, 03:26 PM   #2
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Default Re: Firewall date vs Number on frame

Ours is engine June 15, 1929, firewall June 18, 1929.

1929 Sport Coupe.

Last edited by WHN; 03-26-2018 at 10:59 AM.
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Old 03-25-2018, 03:51 PM   #3
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Default Re: Firewall date vs Number on frame

Neil,

Maybe this document will explain your delima!

http://plucks329s.org/pdf/studies/Mo...te%20Study.pdf

Pluck
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Old 03-25-2018, 04:38 PM   #4
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Default Re: Firewall date vs Number on frame

Neil,

Also review the follow-up on the subject...

http://www.plucks329s.org/pdf/studie...ND%20CODES.pdf

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Old 03-25-2018, 05:01 PM   #5
Neil Mylar LakewoodCA
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Default Re: Firewall date vs Number on frame

Steve,

Thanks for posting your two documents.
Your research is impressive.

I now remember providing you some information that is in your first document.

Hopefully this post will encourage more owners to send you their documentation.

I appreciate all you do for our Model A hobby.

Neil

Last edited by Neil Mylar LakewoodCA; 03-25-2018 at 05:02 PM. Reason: spellcheck
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Old 03-25-2018, 09:19 PM   #6
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Default Re: Firewall date vs Number on frame

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Thanks Neil.

I know the two documents need to be revised just a little as a lot of us think, as you indicated in post #1, the reason for the "date stamp" was due to the testing date of the tank itself AND NOT the assembly date of the body. Even though indicated on the chart I made, some of the days from engine stamping to tank date are very, very close (some same day) is only because of the location of the assembly plant OR the shipping of same day engine stampings and gas tank stampings to assembly plants that were miles away from Dearborn thus being assembled on the same day they arrived at said assembly plant.

Ford was going 1000 miles a minute in his shipping out of parts...it must of been mind-bogoling even back in the late 20's early 30's!

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Old 03-25-2018, 11:34 PM   #7
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Default Re: Firewall date vs Number on frame

Neil, I think variation of dates would have been extended for the assembly plants at the farthest location from Rouge.

My engine and frame date are 1/4/29, and the tank is 1/21/29. The final assembly was in Los Angeles and it was sometime in February 29.
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Old 03-26-2018, 10:49 AM   #8
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Default Re: Firewall date vs Number on frame

My 150A, original with matching numbers, has a tank date of 6-7-29, and an engine/frame date of 6-11-29.
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Old 03-26-2018, 04:17 PM   #9
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Default Re: Firewall date vs Number on frame

I think the documentation mentioned above is as good as possible from 1928-1929 and it seems to confirm the engines and builds were fairly close during the end of the roaring 20's. Cars sold fast. Engine production continued to increase even into early 1930.

However, the market crash at the end of Oct 1929 changed things, and by May 1930, automobile sales had declined to below the levels of 1928. Engines and parts sat in warehouses longer than before. Incomes dropped in half. Unemployment tripled just from 1929 to 1930. So car manufacturers slowed building, as inventory of unsold cars increased. Many went bankrupt. Also the drought and dust bowl started mid 1930.

In the case of the Cabriolet it was a bit higher price and so it logically had a larger drop off of sales than the lower priced cars. The Briggs plant builds were slowed down as part of low demand and supposedly shut down for two weeks around late June-early July to retool for changes like round speedometer, adjustable seat, revised cowl.

My engine was built mid-May 1930. The body has the new cowl with the round speedometer which started June 1930. There is an oval tag on the ignition used June-Sept 1930. However, it also has a fixed seat likely from remaining inventory.

The Briggs body stamp on the firewall is 19,175 of 25,068 total Cabriolets built in 1930 which is late Sept 1930 if build production was proportional (which it wasn't, but records are lost). My car has the slide top irons which guidelines say started July 1930 and hollow landau arms Sept 1930. My starter grommet is the 3 hole rubber type which was still used July 1930 per standards.

So I believe my car was built around late July-early Sept. 1930. Of course parts can be changed, and so I don't really know.

The judging guidelines take this into account and allow a build date up to 3 months after the engine date. So I plan on stating mid-May for the engine and matching frame stamp, and August 1930 for my build date unless additional information is available.
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68B frame# late May1930, Briggs build plate# & most parts except for the fixed seat, indicate +/- Aug. 1930.

Last edited by kimeccles; 03-29-2018 at 11:38 AM. Reason: corrected a date, added starter grommet info
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Old 03-28-2018, 03:43 PM   #10
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Default Re: Firewall date vs Number on frame

My 1928 Roadster pickup has an engine date of Nov. '28 but my tank is NOT stamped.
I have no way of knowing if my engine is the original tho.
My truck does have one early front fender on it.
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Old 03-28-2018, 04:03 PM   #11
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Default Re: Firewall date vs Number on frame

Quote:
Originally Posted by kimeccles View Post
I think the documentation mentioned above is as good as possible from 1928-1929 and it seems to confirm the engines and builds were fairly close during the end of the roaring 20's. Cars sold fast. Engine production continued to increase even into early 1930.

However, the market crash at the end of Oct 1929 changed things, and by May 1930, automobile sales had declined to below the levels of 1928. Engines and parts sat in warehouses longer than before. Incomes dropped in half. Unemployment tripled just from 1929 to 1930. So car manufacturers slowed building, as inventory of unsold cars increased. Many went bankrupt. Also the drought and dust bowl started mid 1930.

In the case of the Cabriolet it was a bit higher price and so it logically had a larger drop off of sales than the lower priced cars. The Briggs plant builds were slowed down as part of low demand and supposedly shut down for two weeks around late June-early July to retool for changes like round speedometer, adjustable seat, revised cowl.

My engine was built mid-May 1930. The body has the new cowl with the round speedometer which started June 1930. There is an oval tag on the ignition used June-Sept 1930. However, it also has a fixed seat likely from remaining inventory.

The Briggs body stamp on the firewall is 19,175 of 25,068 total Cabriolets built in 1930 which is late Sept 1930 if build production was proportional (which it wasn't, but records are lost). My car has the slide top irons which guidelines say started July 1930 and hollow landau arms Sept 1930.

So I believe my car was built around late July-early Sept. 1930. Of course parts can be changed, and so I don't really know.

The judging guidelines take this into account and allow a build date up to 3 months after the engine date. So I plan on stating mid-May for the engine and matching frame stamp, and August 1930 for my build date unless additional information is available.
My CCPU was built August 1930, and the engine April 1930. I've proposed the same rationale for my pickup as you are proposing for your car. I have not gained any support for this...you are the first. Yet, the whole issue with the market crash makes a great case for all of this.
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