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Old 02-18-2013, 01:49 PM   #221
H. L. Chauvin
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Default Re: Who Can Diagnose THIS Total Mystery? Win A Prize?

In recently touching base with Steve:

1. Like many of us, from time to time, he had some different matters come up that needed a little attention.

2. His Model A project is on hold for a short while, (hopefully); however, he graciously has not forgotten all who took valuable time to offer some of their past Model A experiences.

3. With all of us wishing him only the best, hopefully, he can get back in the Model A groove shortly & send an updated detailed report on his latest findings.
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Old 02-19-2013, 07:38 PM   #222
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Default Re: Who Can Diagnose THIS Total Mystery? Win A Prize?

Check for a crack in the intake around the mounting flanges.
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Old 03-01-2013, 12:01 PM   #223
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Default Re: Who Can Diagnose THIS Total Mystery? Win A Prize?

Mea culpa! My bad--and my apologies--for not keeping up with more-frequent progress reports on this on-going mystery. Here's the latest:

I can't believe they're still speaking to me but with the continuing patience and help of fellow club members here in Jacksonville, we've checked and re-checked many of the good tips offered here...and everything else we can think of. Not only has nothing seemed to have worked, now we're at the point that when we address one issue, we make things even worse or seem to create a new problem.

For instance, still believing our problem was electrical, we decided (after installing another member's distributor and the truck ran very well) that we'd totally rebuild my distributor with all new parts. Our club president was gracious enough to do that himself but even STILL the sputtering problem persisted and, in fact seemed worse.

Needing a back-up distributor anyway, I got a brand new one from Snyder's. When we installed THAT, we couldn't even get a SPARK to start the engine. In sheer frustration, we re-installed my original, rebuilt distributor, checked for spark (which we had) and it fired right up and ran great...for about 10 minutes when the original problem returned. The thing stuttered and jerked and refused to go more than 5 mph, acting like it was running out of fuel.

Replacing the carburetor with one known to be working 100% did not solve the problem. Now, even my ever-so-patient and much-more-experienced club buddies are all joining me in throwing up our hands. This near-total disgust led to a halt in the repair proceedings for a while. Nobody wanted to hear about and I didn't want to think about it.

Still, I'm not ready to surrender entirely. It's now become a matter of pride and sheer determination not to be beaten by this old truck. Fortunately, there's one more fellow in our club, one of the few that I have not already bothered with this mess. He is highly regarded as "the guru" for All Things Model A and has graciously consented to take a close look with "fresh eyes" starting next week.

With his many years of experience and expertise, he's going to methodically check everything he knows to see what we must have missed in following all of the leads and advice so many of you have offered here. I'm hoping he'll let me watch because I am dying to know where I went wrong in the search.

I'm now thinking if "the guru" can't find the root of this problem, the thing must be possessed by some kind of demon. I had the Pope all lined up to perform an exorcism on the thing and then HE quit! I was ready to just push it over a cliff but that's no solution either. I'm in FLORIDA, remember, and we have no cliffs here! (Maybe drive if off the pier down the block?)

Anyway, I'll keep you all posted...and if he determines it to be something that one of you first identified as the problem in one of the more than 200 suggestions posted here already and I missed it, I'll make good on my original promise of some kind of a prize.

Everybody keep your fingers crossed...and keep your ideas and questions coming!

Last edited by sgwilson904; 03-01-2013 at 12:17 PM.
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Old 03-01-2013, 12:22 PM   #224
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Default Re: Who Can Diagnose THIS Total Mystery? Win A Prize?

Do you have the small pencil filter in the shutoff valve?
I consider it a must. Without it any small flake of rust, bug, or leaf can block the exit flow. With the stand up filter screen this can't happen, unless you had more junk extrememly deep in the tank.

Also do you have the original all steel fuel lines?
(no rubber or plastic) The rubber and plasitc doesn't work with today's garbage gas and can block the flow.
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Old 03-01-2013, 12:25 PM   #225
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Not wanting to read through all the posts again to see if this has been suggested. Is there any
place you could put the car on a dyno and hook a scope up to it so you could see the ignition pattern.
That would either confirm or eliminate the ignition system.

Bob
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Old 03-01-2013, 12:28 PM   #226
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Default Re: Who Can Diagnose THIS Total Mystery? Win A Prize?

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Do you have the small pencil filter in the shutoff valve?...
Also do you have the original all steel fuel lines?
(no rubber or plastic) The rubber and plasitc doesn't work with today's garbage gas and can block the flow.
Hi Tom,

Yes, proper filter in the shutoff as well as screen at bottom of tank. Have also drained tank and flushed tank and found no crap in the tank.

Originally had a copper fuel line under the hood (firewall to carb). Replaced that with steel line back when I thought copper might be heating the fuel and causing vapor lock.

Also have replaced inside steel fuel line to address a leak. No rubber, no plastic anywhere.
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Old 03-01-2013, 12:37 PM   #227
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You need to drive it to Minnesota to eliminate the vapor lock possiblity.
We shouldn't have to worry about that for a few more months.
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Old 03-01-2013, 12:43 PM   #228
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Default Re: Who Can Diagnose THIS Total Mystery? Win A Prize?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob C View Post
Not wanting to read through all the posts again to see if this has been suggested. Is there any
place you could put the car on a dyno and hook a scope up to it so you could see the ignition pattern.
That would either confirm or eliminate the ignition system.

Bob
I know "the guru" has certain equipment I do not have have. Not sure if a dyno is available to him but will check. I think a thorough look at electrical is first on his list. Thanks for the suggestion!
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Old 03-01-2013, 01:35 PM   #229
H. L. Chauvin
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Hi Steve,


In my humble opinion, what you probably need is a "Model A Whisperer", similar to a vintage horse whisperer or a dog whisperer to visit with your Model A; & one who can communicate with what your vintage Model A is mechanically & electrically trying to tell everyone through its unique, vintage visual & audible vernacular.


Not many of these "Model A whisperers" left around today -- still quite a few on this Forum.


Admire your not giving up.


Hopefully, the "guru", (as you refer to him), that is coming to visit you is a "Model A Whisperer" that can find the problem with hands-on & get it going.


Thanks, & please continue to keep in touch.
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Old 03-01-2013, 01:36 PM   #230
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Maybe install a "known good" engine to make sure it's not chassis related?
(smirk) Just kidding, I really do hope you find out what this is.
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Old 03-01-2013, 01:54 PM   #231
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Without reading through all the threads again, did you try new plugs? They do strange things sometimes and cleaning and gapping doesnt help.It fixed mine, but mine was not as severe as you are describing. It would be an inexpensive try.(A little less than an engine).
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Old 03-01-2013, 01:55 PM   #232
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Default Re: Who Can Diagnose THIS Total Mystery? Win A Prize?

If your motor pops and bangs, it is electrical.

If the motor pulls down, and sputters, it's running out of gas.

I know you said you cleaned the tank out, we did the same thing with a 1949 Ford truck once. Cleaned the tank two times, and found nothing, but the third time we found a small piece of cork off an old sending gauge that would suck over the outlet hole and shut down the gas, and then stop the motor. We would leave it set for 10 minutes, and it might run good again for another 10 minutes, or a whole day.
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Old 03-01-2013, 02:05 PM   #233
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Thinking outside the box... Has anyone checked the coil ground? The coil needs a ground also, and it's usually through the clamp to the firewall. If the coil or clamp is painted, or if paint isn't removed around the mounting holes in the firewall, the coil would have a poor ground.

Also, if paint is removed around the coil clamp bolt holes, and then begins to rust or corrode, that ground is compromised. It would show up after some vibration. Just tightening the clamp hardware won't fix it, the area needs to be cleaned, the clamp needs to be cleaned, and remounted.
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Old 03-01-2013, 02:10 PM   #234
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Default Re: Who Can Diagnose THIS Total Mystery? Win A Prize?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kohnke Rebabbitting View Post
If your motor pops and bangs, it is electrical.

If the motor pulls down, and sputters, it's running out of gas.

I know you said you cleaned the tank out, we did the same thing with a 1949 Ford truck once. Cleaned the tank two times, and found nothing, but the third time we found a small piece of cork off an old sending gauge that would suck over the outlet hole and shut down the gas, and then stop the motor. We would leave it set for 10 minutes, and it might run good again for another 10 minutes, or a whole day.

He's using the screen filter on the top of the shutoff valve like Tom preaches. It eliminates that possibility.
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Old 03-01-2013, 02:19 PM   #235
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Quote:
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Without reading through all the threads again, did you try new plugs? ...
Checked all plugs in the last couple of weeks. They looked good but we replaced them anyway, just in case. That didn't help, either.
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Old 03-01-2013, 03:57 PM   #236
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With an ohm meter, check the readings between the engine/frame, engine/coil should read open, engine/battery ground post, battery ground post/generator ground. If all the readings are the same, you don't have a grounding problem. Do these checks cold, then do the checks when the engine is hot and quits. Write down the readings so you can compare them. Remember, in the physical world, heat and resistance are directly proportional in all things (a basic law of physics). As your engine heats up so does electrical resistance, which can cause less current flow and voltage changes. I know this sounds crazy, but electrical resistance in your engine block and wiring changes with temperature. If you have any bad wires (thinning through age) the slightest heat rise will effect it's current carrying capabilities. The same holds true for any bad or loose or intermittant ground connections. You have used a carburetor that was known to be good, also many other components changed out, with no positive results. The only thing left is what the heat is causing. Good luck.
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Old 03-01-2013, 03:59 PM   #237
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Quote:
Originally Posted by P.S. View Post
Thinking outside the box... Has anyone checked the coil ground? The coil needs a ground also, and it's usually through the clamp to the firewall. If the coil or clamp is painted, or if paint isn't removed around the mounting holes in the firewall, the coil would have a poor ground.

Also, if paint is removed around the coil clamp bolt holes, and then begins to rust or corrode, that ground is compromised. It would show up after some vibration. Just tightening the clamp hardware won't fix it, the area needs to be cleaned, the clamp needs to be cleaned, and remounted.
Sorry to dispute, but a coil needs no ground, the primary circuit goes in and out of the coil and the secondary circuit goes to ground after jumping the plug gap. It will operate fine hanging in mid air.
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Old 03-01-2013, 04:05 PM   #238
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Default Re: Who Can Diagnose THIS Total Mystery? Win A Prize?

[QUOTE=RichPA;602496]Sorry to dispute, but a coil needs no ground, the primary circuit goes in and out of the coil and the secondary circuit goes to ground after jumping the plug gap. It will operate fine hanging in mid air.[/

agree it does not need a ground
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Old 03-01-2013, 04:14 PM   #239
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Sorry to dispute, but a coil needs no ground, the primary circuit goes in and out of the coil and the secondary circuit goes to ground after jumping the plug gap. It will operate fine hanging in mid air.
Technically, it does. If the coil is connected properly, the DC ground is normally found through the points. The "RF ground" (the high tension ground) is through the condenser (capacitor).

However, reading through all the posts again, I thought it could be a condition of coil not finding ground after heat/vibration. Suggesting the ground trick was "thinking outside the box" as mentioned. Have found that cleaning up the ground on the coil in my Tudor solved an bizzarre unexplainable problem where the car would miss for no good reason after it got good and hot.

I see a lot of people posting to this thread now have not taken the time to read through the whole thing, but I have. Trying to come up with something new to try that has worked before.
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Old 03-01-2013, 04:15 PM   #240
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Rich is right. Like the horn, the coil body is totally insulated from the windings. The first thing the car starts to missfire I would pull over without touching the key, shift to neutral and pull the coil wire to check for a hot blue spark at least 1/4" long. If that checks out I'd check for gas flow. If the gas flow is good to the carb inlet I'd look for vapor lock. I don't recall if a tank of good gas (no ethanol) has been tried.

I doubt this is something mechanical, like a piston expanding and getting tight in the bore, because it runs good for so many miles. It does seem like someone driving it should be able to pinpoint the problem though, with all the suggestions given so far.
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