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Old 11-16-2012, 05:48 PM   #41
d.j. moordigian
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Default Re: Second version of the throttle assembly

Photo of "cup", no felt inside..
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Old 11-16-2012, 05:51 PM   #42
Marco Tahtaras
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Default Re: Second version of the throttle assembly

Quote:
Originally Posted by d.j. moordigian View Post
Forged 1 piece with cup...yep another crappie photo...hard too see but the
top, were the cup seats, is sanded/ground..
Thanks, does it look like there may be a felt just below the cup?

Ok, I was too slow. Did you blast away the felt?
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Old 11-16-2012, 06:00 PM   #43
d.j. moordigian
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Default Re: Second version of the throttle assembly

Photo of "cup" upside down, looks like a miniature floorboard washer.
Hole size in the center of the cup is 5/64"...NO felt below cup.
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Old 11-16-2012, 07:17 PM   #44
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Default Re: Second version of the throttle assembly

Marco,

I understand now, when you get testy, about taking good photos, posting and
trying too write all that stuff.....but I'll keep doing it anyway...
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Old 11-16-2012, 08:01 PM   #45
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Default Re: Second version of the throttle assembly

OK...more information, then I'm done for awhile...

1. The 2 piece forged that I have is not sanded on the top of the oil holes.

2. The 1 piece forged(I have 2) both are lightly sanded...1 with and 1 without cups.
And btw...the cups just don't fall out!

3. The holes in the top, for oil, is .250" (1/4"), including a type 4 assembly
that I have here. The type 4 is well sanded on the top, no cups.
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Old 11-16-2012, 08:08 PM   #46
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Default Re: Second version of the throttle assembly

Quote:
Originally Posted by d.j. moordigian View Post
Photo of "cup" upside down, looks like a miniature floorboard washer.
Hole size in the center of the cup is 5/64"...NO felt below cup.
Dudley,

Are the cups brass or steel?

Thanks.

Pluck
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Old 11-16-2012, 08:09 PM   #47
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Default Re: Second version of the throttle assembly

Tomorrow I will quickly beadblast around the oil holes on the 5 or 6 type 3 throttle assemblies I have and post a response as to what I find.

I just read Steve Plucker's alternate throttle assembly post. It would be nice to settle on throttle assembly string and not have two going. I should note that my four model A's - 28 special coupe, 29 phaeton, 29 CCPU and 28 roadster are/were basically basket cases. Don't ask me why I buy crappy A's, maybe because I'm cheap! I can't provide any information related to the car date concerning the throttle assemblies I have. I have 12 or 15 total throttle assemblies I have collected of which 5 or 6 are in the range we are concerned with, 2 are early 28 and the rest are the later style that has the foot petal arm swepted out and in.

I did check an original 1928 model A roadster recently. The car was never molested or restored. The date code on the gas tank was 8/1/1928. It had a type 3 (new 2011 JG's) throttle assembly with the straight area below the bell cranks - no ribs on it. This car should have been right in the middle of the type 2 range. I am 99.9% sure the throttle assembly in this car was never messed with.
Rusty Nelson

Last edited by wrndln; 11-16-2012 at 08:27 PM.
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Old 11-16-2012, 10:40 PM   #48
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Default Re: Second version of the throttle assembly

Per the updated judging standards, mine is the 5th type. Although I have a mid year '28, it was hacked together long before I acquired it. I tried fitting the early assembly but the firewall was cut and bent where the floor button comes thru at the upper floorboard and the assembly was bent and tweaked to fit. Sorry I can't offer any substance to this one.
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Old 11-17-2012, 01:03 PM   #49
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Default Re: Second version of the throttle assembly

Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve Plucker View Post
Dudley,

Are the cups brass or steel?

Thanks.

Pluck

Good morning Steve,

..............Steel..............
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Old 11-17-2012, 01:39 PM   #50
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Default Re: Second version of the throttle assembly

Quote:
Originally Posted by Marco Tahtaras View Post
Thanks, does it look like there may be a felt just below the cup?

Ok, I was too slow. Did you blast away the felt?
In your post #34 the word "plug" had me thinking in 2 directions. Is that
your word or one off the prints? A "plug" for the "cup"? You follow me..

I, like you, thought the felt could be under the cup, "gravity feed", for
the shaft. Even with .010"-.015" clearance, shaft too housing, it would
be hard to wet the felt below. The dip stick is the perfect delivery tool
to oil the cup/oil hole/shaft.

The only stuff I found below the cup was dirt, I dug it out, no blasting.

Of the 4-5 type 1 TA's that I have, none were sanded on top and no cups
or plugs.
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Old 11-17-2012, 04:50 PM   #51
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Default Re: Second version of the throttle assembly

Here is what I have:

Two which are Flat Bottom, 1 Peice Forgings, No Plugs;

One which is Flat Bottom, 1 Peice Forging, Plugs;

One which is Flat Bottom, 2 Peice Forging, No Plugs;

One which is Raised Bottom, 1 Peice Casting, No plugs (Stamped into the mounting base is A9728).

None with the "raised" ribs on the mounting base as seen in #2 of the JS.

Are there any more features worth noteing?

Hope this helps.

Pluck
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Last edited by Steve Plucker; 11-17-2012 at 06:49 PM.
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Old 11-17-2012, 06:55 PM   #52
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Default Re: Second version of the throttle assembly

I have 2 forged units with flat bottoms.
The oil holes are not ground flat ontop.
1 unit (pictured) has a brass cup.
No wick underneith, just crumbly rust.
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Old 11-17-2012, 08:24 PM   #53
Marco Tahtaras
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Default Re: Second version of the throttle assembly

Quote:
Originally Posted by wrndln View Post
I did check an original 1928 model A roadster recently. The car was never molested or restored. The date code on the gas tank was 8/1/1928. It had a type 3 (new 2011 JG's) throttle assembly with the straight area below the bell cranks - no ribs on it. This car should have been right in the middle of the type 2 range. I am 99.9% sure the throttle assembly in this car was never messed with.
Rusty Nelson
This is GOOD info but no surprise. It's very important to make a couple points however. Look closely at what I wrote about cast vs. forged AND flat vs. rounded or raised bottom. You will find looking at the Standards pic (I included below) there are NO forged brackets shown (correctly) except for the type 1. What you describe on the '28 Roadster is forged and not shown in the Standards at all. What you did find is what I called either type 2b or type 2c.

Now here is an important question. Does it have the one piece or two piece forging??? As I noted in my last post it may be tough to tell in the car. However thinking about it I believe that knowing where the seam will be if applicable I believe 85% of the time we could tell by feel reaching around the back with a couple finger tips. I do recommend having a rag handy . Some cars get a bit grimy back there!

I'll reemphasize that we are very confident both the one piece and two piece forgings fall within the "type 2" category. I'm also quite confident the one piece version came first. What we DON'T know is the timelines of both versions.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Craig Lewis View Post
I have 2 forged units with flat bottoms.
The oil holes are not ground flat on top.
1 unit (pictured) has a brass cup.
No wick underneith, just crumbly rust.
That is interesting! Note that the brass cup looks like it MAY have been a "plug" as Ford called it (answering Dudley). It really looks as if it started out solid and was drilled after the fact.


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Old 11-17-2012, 10:25 PM   #54
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Default Re: Second version of the throttle assembly

Marco,
I took two pictures of the original 29 roadster throttle assembly. Neither picture was very good as I could only see a little of each side. I don't have easy access to it and at the time, I didn't even know about a two piece forging. All I could tell was that it had a straight area below the bell crank.

Edited 11:30 PM - Sorry, I meant 28 roadster in the first sentence above - a typo.
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Last edited by wrndln; 11-18-2012 at 12:22 AM.
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Old 11-17-2012, 10:29 PM   #55
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Default Re: Second version of the throttle assembly

I wonder what the part releases would tell us about these parts on this assembly if we had them in hand?

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Old 11-17-2012, 11:33 PM   #56
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Default Re: Second version of the throttle assembly

I will grab my small collection of throttle assemblies this week and see what I have as far as forged, cast and oil wicks and cups. Been following this close and am curios what I can add to the discussion. I was hoping we could mainly see if the mystery assembly existed, but this has taken many new turns. Rod
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Old 11-17-2012, 11:45 PM   #57
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Default Re: Second version of the throttle assembly

Quote:
Originally Posted by wrndln View Post
Marco,
I took two pictures of the original 29 roadster throttle assembly. Neither picture was very good as I could only see a little of each side. I don't have easy access to it and at the time, I didn't even know about a two piece forging. All I could tell was that it had a straight area below the bell crank.
Rusty Nelson
Thanks Rusty, I know it can be tough. I sincerely appreciate all the effort. As far as photos go, most snapshot cameras need to be set in "macro" mode to focus on objects closer than about 7' unless lighting is VERY bright where aperture can compensate. I think macro mode is a flower symbol.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve Plucker View Post
I wonder what the part releases would tell us about these parts on this assembly if we had them in hand?

Pluck
I'm getting to know what to expect now and the correct one or two releases MAY be helpful. I've already been able to determine the record keeping was not timely. For example, when they changed to the one piece shaft and lever design (difference between #4 & 5 below) it made obsolete the old shaft, carb control lever, retaining pin, and return spring. There was a surprising span of time between the first and last of the four items were recorded as service only items. Not a single one of those items could be used without the others.

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Old 11-18-2012, 08:58 AM   #58
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Default Re: Second version of the throttle assembly

My 28 Fordor (gas tank date of 7/25/28) I am pretty sure it has not been apart, has the flat bottom, one piece forging, has no rib, has no oil cups and top is not ground flat to accept cups.
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Old 11-18-2012, 01:56 PM   #59
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Default Re: Second version of the throttle assembly

I know this is "nit picking"(I do apologies), too all of you. When I said " it was lightly
sanded"
, more like the guy used a file or coarse disc sander,...a light swipe. If you look
closely at the photo I posted #41, to the right of the "cup" you will see the lines.
Maybe Marco can fix my photo up some? Thanks, Dudley

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Old 11-18-2012, 07:35 PM   #60
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Default Re: Second version of the throttle assembly

I crudely beadblasted the 7 throttle assemblies I have that are in the time frame we are concerned with so I could more easily see the oil holes and whether they were one or two piece assemblies. I am posting a picture of the 7 assemblies below. I have 5 forged TA's that are shown on the right side of the picture. All the TA's on the right side of the picture are forged, have a straight area below the bell crank and have 5/16" bosses at the mounting holes. The top TA on the right is the only one of the seven that is a two piece unit (welded on the left side). It has an uneven area where the oil holes are (no oil caps). The middle three are one piece units again with uneven areas around the oil holes (no oil caps). The bottom TA on the right is the only one that has oil caps. The two TA's on the left side of the picture are the same, They have curved areas below the bell crank, 3/8" thick mounting bosses, a somewhat smoother area around the two oil holes and no oil caps. These two appear to be cast as they are smoother overall and don't have pronounced grind marks around the edges like the forged brackets do, however there are some minor grind marks around the edges of these two assemblies. I think I have covered everything, but I am going to leave them out so I can check other things if there is a question about them.
Rusty Nelson

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