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Old 07-29-2020, 06:54 AM   #1
quik
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Default Should I be concerned?

I'm looking at purchasing a 41' Ford F1 and the owner has shared several pics of the truck. One thing that has thrown up a red flag is the installation of the coolant hoses on top of the engine. They have been installed with a bow in them. There's a high spot in the middle and the hose is lower at the radiator and the heads. I've attached a couple pics so you can see what I mean. The truck has only been driven a few hundred miles since the engine was installed (claimed by the owner). Would the upper coolant hoses installed this way cause any issues down the road?
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File Type: jpg 8112[1].jpg (38.7 KB, 282 views)
File Type: jpg 8113[1].jpg (36.3 KB, 247 views)
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Old 07-29-2020, 06:59 AM   #2
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Default Re: Should I be concerned?

It's the wrong motor for a '41, that motor is an 8ba type used from 48-53 in trucks and 49-53 in cars. If the person who did the engine swap didn't take the time to get the hoses right how many other things could be "Mickey Mouse" together.

Last edited by corvette8n; 07-29-2020 at 07:25 AM. Reason: Added info
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Old 07-29-2020, 07:09 AM   #3
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Default Re: Should I be concerned?

I'm not sure the hoses are a problem..overheating, etc. ....but, if at all possible, you need to see & drive it for yourself. I paid a "professional appraiser" to check a car out for me.
BIG MISTAKE !! He missed things that cost me big time just to make the car safe to drive.
Looks like a nice engine bay though.
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Old 07-29-2020, 07:13 AM   #4
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Default Re: Should I be concerned?

Quote:
Originally Posted by corvette8n View Post
It's the wrong motor for a '41, that motor is an 8ba type used from 48-53 in trucks and 49-53 in cars.


Agreed. That's just a the way the hose is going to be do to the outlet location and rad location.

The lower part (where it attaches to the head) should have been made shorter to prevent that.

I don't know why, but stuff like that bugs me. I would start looking around to see where else they made shortcuts.
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Old 07-29-2020, 07:14 AM   #5
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Default Re: Should I be concerned?

To answer your question, so long as the hoses do not rub on anything, there should not be any issues.
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Old 07-29-2020, 07:26 AM   #6
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Default Re: Should I be concerned?

I like it....I really like that the owner installed a fan shroud.

Charlie
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Old 07-29-2020, 07:32 AM   #7
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Default Re: Should I be concerned?

Quote:
I'm not sure the hoses are a problem..overheating, etc. ....but, if at all possible, you need to see & drive it for yourself. I paid a "professional appraiser" to check a car out for me.
BIG MISTAKE !! He missed things that cost me big time just to make the car safe to drive.
Looks like a nice engine bay though.
Agreed! I refuse to even make an offer on a car until I have driven it personally. Thanks for the advise.

Quote:
It's the wrong motor for a '41, that motor is an 8ba type used from 48-53 in trucks and 49-53 in cars.
The owner shared that upfront, and I imagine the mis-match of the 8BA in a 41' forced the hoses to be fitted this way.

Quote:
To answer your question, so long as the hoses do not rub on anything, there should not be any issues.
Thanks. I have poured over the 30 some pictures the owner sent to me, and while I do see some problems (it's not perfect) I'm going to go look at it. This will be the 6th car I've looked at/driven. All of the others had major problems the owner "forgot" to mention.

Thanks for the replies, I really do appreciate it.

I attached a few more pics.
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Old 07-29-2020, 07:33 AM   #8
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Default Re: Should I be concerned?

The water pumps move a tremendous amount of water, hoses should be shorter but not a problem.
Paul in CT
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Old 07-29-2020, 07:46 AM   #9
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Default Re: Should I be concerned?

quik, from your pictures, the truck...based on what we can see....looks to be in pretty good shape. Would be worthwhile to get the invoices for work done on the truck in the recent past. It's been lowered, at least in the front, so undercarriage should be looked at closely.

Welcome to the Barn!!

Keep us posted!!
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Old 07-29-2020, 08:17 AM   #10
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Default Re: Should I be concerned?

Quote:
Originally Posted by RKS.PA View Post
quik, from your pictures, the truck...based on what we can see....looks to be in pretty good shape. Would be worthwhile to get the invoices for work done on the truck in the recent past. It's been lowered, at least in the front, so undercarriage should be looked at closely.

Welcome to the Barn!!

Keep us posted!!
That's good advise. The owner says he has almost all of his receipts, which I'll be sure to rummage through when I go look at it.

A few more details:
  1. H&H Flatheads long block
  2. Painted 2 years ago
  3. Rebuilt original gauges
  4. Rebuilt T5
  5. Rebuilt Ford 8" rear with 3.00 gears
  6. Parellel leafs in the rear
  7. Radial WW's
  8. New chrome
  9. New glass

He says he's tired of working on it and wants to move so he needs to sell. It needs the headliner installed (how hard of a job is that?) and it needs kick panels.
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Old 07-29-2020, 08:23 AM   #11
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Default Re: Should I be concerned?

The hoses themselves are a very simple fix.
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Old 07-29-2020, 08:26 AM   #12
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Default Re: Should I be concerned?

Any chances of posting more photos of the engine compartment and the engine? Where is the breather and oil fill. Are the hoses installed like that so the fan blade clears the hoses?
What kind of radiator is in the truck? Does it overheat?

It looks like a nice truck but, I am surprised that the owner didn't finish the interior. Wonder why? Be sure to drive it and look at the quality of the work done on the underside of the truck.
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Old 07-29-2020, 08:28 AM   #13
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Default Re: Should I be concerned?

Quote:
Originally Posted by quik View Post
That's good advise. The owner says he has almost all of his receipts, which I'll be sure to rummage through when I go look at it.

A few more details:
  1. H&H Flatheads long block
  2. Painted 2 years ago
  3. Rebuilt original gauges
  4. Rebuilt T5
  5. Rebuilt Ford 8" rear with 3.00 gears
  6. Parellel leafs in the rear
  7. Radial WW's
  8. New chrome
  9. New glass

He says he's tired of working on it and wants to move so he needs to sell. It needs the headliner installed (how hard of a job is that?) and it needs kick panels.

IF you have 30 more pictures It might be worth while posting more of what you have, just like deer in a field, the"more" eyes on the the pictures, the more likely to catch a "hunter" or "danger" as the case "may" be!!! Also might yeild leads as to areas to concentrate on when you get there to "check it out". JMO!!!! Truck's didn't have headliners or kick panels so those most likely will have to be fabricated IF they did have anything of the sort then it was black Masonite (card board type material which if they did "Should" be avail from the usual suspects LMC, Drake, NPD, Carpenter's etc etc would be a good start). I'm sure the "truck" guys here on the Barn will have more "accurate" info on that!!!
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Old 07-29-2020, 08:39 AM   #14
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Default Re: Should I be concerned?

The F designation originated in the 1948 model year.
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Old 07-29-2020, 08:39 AM   #15
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Default Re: Should I be concerned?

Quote:
Originally Posted by JSeery View Post
The hoses themselves are a very simple fix.
Agreed, but seeing the money the guy put into it, I am curious as to why someone wouldn't fix it. Motor cost was around $6-$8K depending what is done to it. That's all.

By pictures, looks nice. I'm sure this isn't cheap and needs to be looked at and driven.
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Old 07-29-2020, 08:45 AM   #16
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Default Re: Should I be concerned?

you can go to an auto parts store and find some preformed 1 1/2 inch hoses that have enough length and a good 90 degree bend that will bring things into better alignment...
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Old 07-29-2020, 08:50 AM   #17
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Default Re: Should I be concerned?

300 gears and an overdrive...should be good for about 200mph !
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Old 07-29-2020, 08:54 AM   #18
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Default Re: Should I be concerned?

I would think a flathead would have a difficult time pulling a 3:00 gear ratio in overdrive!
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Old 07-29-2020, 09:36 AM   #19
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Default Re: Should I be concerned?

Here is another set of pics.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg 8089[1].jpg (36.5 KB, 63 views)
File Type: jpg 8090[1].jpg (38.4 KB, 59 views)
File Type: jpg 8091[1].jpg (79.0 KB, 63 views)
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File Type: jpg 8099[1].jpg (43.3 KB, 64 views)
File Type: jpg 8100[1].jpg (28.2 KB, 60 views)
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Old 07-29-2020, 09:39 AM   #20
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Default Re: Should I be concerned?

Another set.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg 8101[1].jpg (41.0 KB, 53 views)
File Type: jpg 8103[1].jpg (20.2 KB, 46 views)
File Type: jpg 8104[1].jpg (41.9 KB, 56 views)
File Type: jpg 8105[1].jpg (37.7 KB, 50 views)
File Type: jpg 8106[1].jpg (27.5 KB, 47 views)
File Type: jpg 8107[1].jpg (45.7 KB, 51 views)
File Type: jpeg 8108[1].jpeg (54.5 KB, 225 views)
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Old 07-29-2020, 09:42 AM   #21
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Default Re: Should I be concerned?

Another set
Attached Images
File Type: jpg 8110[1].jpg (35.0 KB, 59 views)
File Type: jpg 8111[1].jpg (39.0 KB, 62 views)
File Type: jpg 8112[1].jpg (38.7 KB, 63 views)
File Type: jpg 8115[1].jpg (40.4 KB, 59 views)
File Type: jpg 8121[1].jpg (43.0 KB, 54 views)
File Type: jpg 8126[1].jpg (27.4 KB, 58 views)
File Type: jpg 8127[1].jpg (54.1 KB, 59 views)
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Old 07-29-2020, 09:50 AM   #22
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Default Re: Should I be concerned?

Another set
Attached Images
File Type: jpeg 8128[1].jpeg (58.1 KB, 65 views)
File Type: jpeg 8129[1].jpeg (48.8 KB, 65 views)
File Type: jpeg 8130[1].jpeg (49.1 KB, 64 views)
File Type: jpg 8133[1].jpg (26.9 KB, 61 views)
File Type: jpg 8134[1].jpg (34.7 KB, 60 views)
File Type: jpg 8135[1].jpg (29.7 KB, 54 views)
File Type: jpeg 8136[1].jpeg (37.9 KB, 55 views)
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Old 07-29-2020, 09:55 AM   #23
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Default Re: Should I be concerned?

Can you give us a ball park what he's asking? This is an unique truck.

Paint is street rod, running gear is a mix of hot rod and street rod. It's interesting mix of the two. No longer a stocker, but that's not a necessarily a bad thing either.

If you plan on keeping it and you like what's done to it, then all is good and go for it.

Last edited by Tim Ayers; 07-29-2020 at 10:15 AM.
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Old 07-29-2020, 09:57 AM   #24
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Default Re: Should I be concerned?

I could post some pics of my 41 and you'd probably start seeing that one in a better light. It looks really nice from this side of my monitor.
To some the modifications will detract from the value. It looks to be in good condition and I imagine it's not cheap.

Lift the mats and have a look at the cab floor.
Look at the frame where it starts to kick up.
If you go and see it be sure to let us know how it goes.

Mart.
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Old 07-29-2020, 10:03 AM   #25
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Default Re: Should I be concerned?

I agree that the 3.00 rear is a bad choice for that combo. If the price is right and everything else is good, it isn't a huge deal to swap out the entire rear end for another. Go see how it drives. If it has a 4" crank and the right cam it could be OK.
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Old 07-29-2020, 10:25 AM   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by deuce_roadster View Post
I agree that the 3.00 rear is a bad choice for that combo. If the price is right and everything else is good, it isn't a huge deal to swap out the entire rear end for another. Go see how it drives. If it has a 4" crank and the right cam it could be OK.



No need "to swap out the entire rear end"! Just drop out the center section and change the ring and pinion to something like 3.89 or 4.11. With the overdrive trans, the final ratio would be about 2.8 to 1. With the current 3.00 gears, the final ratio is about 2.1 to 1. Way too tall!
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Old 07-29-2020, 10:27 AM   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by quik View Post
That's good advise. The owner says he has almost all of his receipts, which I'll be sure to rummage through when I go look at it.

A few more details:
  1. H&H Flatheads long block
  2. Painted 2 years ago
  3. Rebuilt original gauges
  4. Rebuilt T5
  5. Rebuilt Ford 8" rear with 3.00 gears
  6. Parellel leafs in the rear
  7. Radial WW's
  8. New chrome
  9. New glass

He says he's tired of working on it and wants to move so he needs to sell. It needs the headliner installed (how hard of a job is that?) and it needs kick panels.

Parallel leafs in the rear are from the factory. I believe '41 was the first year.
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Old 07-29-2020, 10:45 AM   #28
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^^Wrong info above. 41s still had the transverse springs.

The truck has been mildly street rodded.
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Old 07-29-2020, 10:45 AM   #29
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Default Re: Should I be concerned?

Little stuff like no flat or lock washers bother me(Rear bumper brackets and rear shock mounts).
Cobwebs under the car.
Also look at the body seam under the car in one of the last photos(the one showing the exhaust going thru the x member),is that rust or dirt on the fresh paint?
Did he ever drive it or did he build it to sell
As stated previously,it also depends on the price
I would not buy it without looking at it.
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Old 07-29-2020, 10:54 AM   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mart View Post
^^Wrong info above. 41s still had the transverse springs.

The truck has been mildly street rodded.
More than mildly IMHO. Paint is a big cost and that color choice is 100% street rod. 9" with a T-5, totally street rod.

Again, not that its a bad thing, but I wouldn't call this truck a hot rod.

It may be apples to oranges, but the terms mean two different things. This truck appears to be a nice, street rodded truck.
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Old 07-29-2020, 11:24 AM   #31
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Default Re: Should I be concerned?

I like everything I see but the color (red wheels included).

OK, the top hoses should be fixed too.
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Old 07-29-2020, 12:12 PM   #32
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Default Re: Should I be concerned?

Let me see if I can answer some of the questions posted and I think aussiesteve had a pretty good list, so here goes

1. Price - $30,000 (asking)

2. Little stuff like no flat or lock washers bother me(Rear bumper brackets and rear shock mounts) - Agreed, which made me ask for a lot more pictures. I do see some issues that I can easily correct, but it also has my spidey-senses tingling so I plan to pay CLOSE attention to details when I go look at it.

3. Cobwebs under the car - Owner has only driven it 200-300 miles total while working on it over the past 7 years. He says he's tired of working on it and wants to move and needs the cash. He's moved from MD to CO and back during those 7 years and he's tired of transporting an unfinished project.

4. Also look at the body seam under the car in one of the last photos(the one showing the exhaust going thru the x member),is that rust or dirt on the fresh paint? Yes it is rust. The cab was soda blasted and then sprayed with a rust inhibitor, but the rust is coming from between two panels where they missed. I very good friend of mine has fixed spots like this before for me and it can be fixed easily. The owner claims all repairs were all metal repairs and no bondo cover up jobs. I've see bondo cover up jobs before, so I know what to look for when I go look at the truck.

5. Did he ever drive it or did he build it to sell - It was built to drive, but he's tired of working on it and wants it gone. I know how he feels. I did the same thing with a 1968 Mustang I sold about a month ago.

6. As stated previously,it also depends on the price - I think my top number on the truck is $27,500. I REALLY like the truck and what he's done with it. It's got good bones, but needs a few finishing touches. However, there's just too much left to finish for it to be worth $30,000 (IMO).

7. Rear is geared too high - Agreed, although I was thinking more like a 3.73's or 3.55's to keep the cruising speed on the interstate somewhere in the low 2K RPM's. Ring and pinions are cheap for a Ford 8" and there's all kinds of options for gearing. I would probably keep the 3.00 in it for now and just use gears 1-4 unless on the interstate.
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Old 07-29-2020, 12:40 PM   #33
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Quote:
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^^Wrong info above. 41s still had the transverse springs.

The truck has been mildly street rodded.

Thanks for the correction, Mart! My belated research shows '42 to be the first year for the open driveline, parallel spring setup, not '41.
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Old 07-29-2020, 12:59 PM   #34
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Does he have the paperwork/receipt from H&H. For being driven only 200-300 miles in the past 7 years, the motor looks like it has some miles on it.
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Old 07-29-2020, 01:51 PM   #35
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Does he have the paperwork/receipt from H&H. For being driven only 200-300 miles in the past 7 years, the motor looks like it has some miles on it.
I agree with the motor looking like it has some miles on it. He says he has the receipt for the motor from H&H and that he bought it, so it's not second hand. With all of the moving around he's done I'm wondering if maybe the motor was stored in a less than desirable place in it's history. He says it starts right up and runs great. That's something a test drive will prove/disprove.
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Old 07-29-2020, 01:55 PM   #36
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It looks to me like it has an 'early' style intake manifold on this 'late' engine. If so, I'd be concerned about how the engine will breathe like 19Fordy asks above, although it appears that oil can be added thru the blocked-off fuel pump stand. Ask the owner if the engine has been equipped with a PCV system of any sort. It may help you to review an article I just posted a few days ago explaining this situation with an 8BA in great detail. Click the link below, and good luck...nice looking truck, overall! DD


https://www.fordbarn.com/forum/showthread.php?t=284487













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Old 07-29-2020, 02:07 PM   #37
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Come on guys It's only $30000 . It's a nice looking truck - Try building yourself one for only $30000 - 36fordguy
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Old 07-29-2020, 02:18 PM   #38
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I think you are on the right track. Neat truck, looks good, sounds like it runs well, but needs to be inspected in person to verify or confirm what the seller is telling.

'40/'41 trucks are timeless and hopefully you plan to keep it for a long time.

Please report back with what you find.
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Old 07-29-2020, 03:02 PM   #39
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Come on guys It's only $30000 . It's a nice looking truck - Try building yourself one for only $30000 - 36fordguy
Without question it is a nice looking truck. While I agree with you that one would be hard pressed to build it for $30K, I don't share your thoughts on it only being $30K and what's the big deal.

That's a chunk of change and I think the OP is asking for thoughts so he can formulate questions in order to be as informed as possible as to what to look for.

If I was spending $30K on any vehicle, sure as heck I'd go over it with a fine tooth comb.
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Old 07-29-2020, 03:25 PM   #40
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Default Re: Should I be concerned?

My '48 F-1 had a manifold like that when I bought it. The engine leaked oil all over and had fumes inside cab! I changed to the correct manifold and problem solved. Before and after pictures.
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Old 07-29-2020, 04:05 PM   #41
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Wow, ya'll are a fantastic group. I really appreciate all of the feedback and questions. I've been learning about old cars for about 10 years now (1968 Mustang), but know very little about flatheads and old Fords, so this thread has been very valuable. Thanks a million!
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Old 07-29-2020, 04:26 PM   #42
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Default Re: Should I be concerned?

If the radiator hoses aare all that bother you?????? Don't buy it! It's a beautiful truck, but there's gota be something else wrong with it.
I went to a care show last saterday/ There was a nice 34 PU with a mini Hemi in it, I asked the owner if it was a 240 or 270? he didn't know, said he bought it.
Nice 40 coupe with a flathead in it, Heads and carbs. I asked whats in it and he didn't know he baught it.
Not many people know much about old cars, dying breed I guess.
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Old 07-29-2020, 04:42 PM   #43
jimTN
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Default Re: Should I be concerned?

Take the lowering blocks off the rear and whatever made the front end low, paint the running boards black, fix the hoses and drive the p....s out of it. There are some big dollars there in body work. When you can see the body line on those doors lining up with the body body line, you know it has been taken care of or carefully fixed.
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Old 07-29-2020, 06:28 PM   #44
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Default Re: Should I be concerned?

I know what you guys are saying, but I've bought cars before that ended being a lot more of a project than I was bargaining for. I just don't want to spend more time fixing it than driving it. That's what happened with my last project and after 10 years of working on it i couldn't wait to sell it.

Here it is:
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Old 07-29-2020, 06:46 PM   #45
aussiesteve
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Thanks for answering my questions
I,d still want to look at it in person and get it on a lift so you can really check out the undercarriage.
A plane ticket is cheap insurance
I flew from Co to Ct 2 months ago to look at a 32.
Well worth the time on the plane
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Old 07-29-2020, 07:44 PM   #46
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Default Re: Should I be concerned?

It look like the hoses could be shortened at the thermostat housing to cure that supposed "problem"
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Old 07-29-2020, 08:58 PM   #47
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Default Re: Should I be concerned?

I like it. Most of the changes being discussed are fairly simple ones.
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Old 07-30-2020, 12:32 PM   #48
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Originally Posted by JSeery View Post
I like it. Most of the changes being discussed are fairly simple ones.
Agreed. I've already setup a meeting date and time with the owner and setup a trailer to haul it back. Hopefully, I'll be able to post pics of it in my driveway soon.
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Old 07-30-2020, 12:54 PM   #49
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Agreed. I've already setup a meeting date and time with the owner and setup a trailer to haul it back. Hopefully, I'll be able to post pics of it in my driveway soon.
Nice! Please do.
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Old 07-30-2020, 02:25 PM   #50
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Agreed. I've already setup a meeting date and time with the owner and setup a trailer to haul it back. Hopefully, I'll be able to post pics of it in my driveway soon.
Applaud your setting up the trailer!! Learned a very painful lesson by thinking I could drive my '39 home 90 miles down I-5 north of Seattle. Wound up having to rent a U-Haul truck and trailer on Labor Day. Worked out, but was a lot more stressful than necessary!!
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Old 07-30-2020, 03:14 PM   #51
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Default Re: Should I be concerned?

The headliner and kick panels should be available. Two possible sources:

https://www.macsautoparts.com/early_...our-color.html

https://cgfordparts.com/ufolder/cgca...&searchnumber=

I used C&G to source most of the common 40-47 cab parts on the tonner.
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Old 07-30-2020, 06:30 PM   #52
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Default Re: Should I be concerned?

looks good. the hoses not a problem personally i would have bent up some 316 stainless tube for the top but thats me. if it drives rite stops rite and your safe and happy [ENJOY]
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Old 08-02-2020, 12:38 PM   #53
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Well, here's an update. I bought it yesterday and brought it home. I paid $26,000 for it. It was a deal both the seller and I were happy with. I cant wait to get it tagged and start driving it.

Thanks for all the help, you guys are great.
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Old 08-02-2020, 12:48 PM   #54
Jack E/NJ
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>>> I took the family around the neighborhood last night.>>>


Did some of them have to ride around in the pickup bed? Jack E/NJ
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Old 08-02-2020, 04:00 PM   #55
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Originally Posted by FHFD View Post
The F designation originated in the 1948 model year.
Thank you!! I own a 41 pickup, no F1 nomenclature on it, period.
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Old 08-02-2020, 04:40 PM   #56
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Well, here's an update. I bought it yesterday and brought it home. I paid $26,000 for it. It was a deal both the seller and I were happy with. I cant wait to get it tagged and start driving it.

Thanks for all the help, you guys are great.
Great! As someone said, no way you could build it for that and seems fair for all that was done to it. Drive it and enjoy it.
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