A few questions on a 8BA

[Los_Control]

I am a total noob to this motor, last week I bought a 8BA motor & trans from a 1951 F100.

So anyway, I assume all 8BA 239 engines are created equal, and the truck 4spd that came with it. I would like to see if can rebuild it.Just trying to figure out why they were tearing it apart in the first place, so I can continue and correct the issue, before I put it back together with the same issue it started with.


There is a reason this rancher pulled this truck out of service Started to pull it apart and stopped. ... I am just not seeing it ... so am asking for things to look for when I disassemble the engine ... A true pro would rip it apart and save whats left, I am trying to go at it with the attitude to see whats wrong and fix what I have.


If ya all have some good links, information for what to look for while tearing down or just want to say hello, I sure like to say hello to you.

[Phil Gillespie]

How about start from the beginning and find the real reason or symptons which made original owner decide it needed some work. Maybe it was hard starting or similar which can be sorted without tearing it down. Do the easy bits first.
Phil NZ

[Aarongriffey]

A ‘51 would be an F1. Not that it makes much difference. I

[tubman]

Have the the heads been removed? If so, check for cracks between the valve pockets and the cylinders. If there is one, maybe two, they can be repaired, but more than that the block is scrap. If there are none, there are other places to check. The BIG problem with most used flatheads today is unrepairable cracks in the block. Think about it; the flathead block is a much more complex casting than and modern OHV block. DO NOT spend any money on a flathead unless it has been proven to be crack free (or at least repairable).

[flatford8]

Hello....how’s it going?.....When was it torn down?....is it still oily inside or is it a dried out rusty lump?....does it turn over? How much has it been taken apart?....as has been posted, cracks are your biggest enemy. I think everything else can be repaired or replaced. Where do you live( town-state)? There could be somebody right down the road who can help you......welcome to the wonderful world of flatheads!!!!.........Mark

[RalphG]

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Just a guess but many of the old farm trcks/cars with flatheads were retired when they became just too hard to start. My 52 Merc for example. Finally refused to start in 1969 and was retired. When my brother opened it up to inspect in 1979 he found the low compression was mostly due to burnt and leaking valves. New pistons, rings, and a valve job and it starts great now.

[JSeery]

Welcome to the Barn. There are some books available that provide step by step disassemble instructions / hints and what to look for along the way. This is one.

[rotorwrench]

Back when I was younger and still living up in the colder part of the country, it was not uncommon for an owner to find a cracked block after a bad winter. A check of the oil would come up with a lot more on the stick than motor oil.

A flathead V8 that has set too long can have enough corrosion in places that the pistons might not move or the valves may stick in the guides.

Any engine that has set for a long time is bound to have a fuel delivery problem due to crappy fuels and the resultant corrosion in the carburetor and fuel tank so that is a real possibility as previously mentioned.

It could have been ignition related as well so you will just have to check the easiest thing first and go from there. I'd at least pull the heads and see if it has a broken ring or stuck valves. All it will cost is a gasket set as long as none of the bolts break off in the block. Also check for mice nests under the intake manifold. I've found all sorts of stuff in these old engines.

All 8BA blocks are the same but there are differences between cylinder heads,oil pans, water pumps, clutches, and carburetors as well as 255 Mercury cranks for those so equipped. Late engines begining in 1951, have rotator type valves. The truck engines should still have hardened exhaust valve seats but you never know at near 70 years since manufacture.

[Als48]

My dad and my grandad both had flathead pickups.

Grandad had an F3 with a 239 and 4-speed with granny low. The clutch in that truck always had a tendancy to shudder and jerk, partly because it was geared very low, but a little troublesome. It also had an exhaust valve that tended to stick, even when it was driven a couple of times a week. Since that was their only vehicle my grandmother had trouble driving it, with a troublesome clutch and the clunky non-synchronized 4 speed.

Dad's 51 F-1 was more trouble-free with a 239 and three on the tree. He had a Jasper rebuilt engine installed when he first got it, due to engine trouble, so my memories are of a mostly good running trouble-free truck. I loved it. That was in the late 50's early 60's.

[Los_Control]

Originally Posted by flatford8

Hello....how’s it going?.....When was it torn down?....Mark

I am guessing torn apart 20 years ago, motor is stuck. The 4 open cylinders rear 2 pistons are almost at the top, they look fine, 2 front cyl are down and have worst rust.
They have no pitting, is light surface rust ... thats a bonus
Guessing truck was parked and stored inside or in a barn. Also a west TX dry climate truck.



Got the intake off, that is not good news. whole valley is one big mouse nest
Just thinking about the mouse pee on the lifters ... not sure yet what damage is there.


I have 3 stuck head bolts on the other head, working them back and forth with a impact ... might need heat ... I might briefly try a breaker bar and cheater pipe.


Jseery thanks for the tip, I will look for that book and get it ordered. I only have a motors manual at this time ... I need a good flathead ford specific book.

[Los_Control]

Originally Posted by rotorwrench

Back
All 8BA blocks are the same but there are differences between cylinder heads,oil pans, water pumps, clutches, and carburetors as well as 255 Mercury cranks for those so equipped. Late engines begining in 1951, have rotator type valves. The truck engines should still have hardened exhaust valve seats but you never know at near 70 years since manufacture.

Thats great info right there, Thank you. This brings me to today's project in order to get the pan off and remove the crank.



Project for today, I need to get online and order a engine stand.
I live in nowherevilla USA and a 2 hour 1 way drive to a city.

I hear some horror stories, but guessing the later 8BA is ok on a engine stand?
I expect the engine to live on the stand for some time. Is it safe to go to harbor freight and order one?
Any gotcha's I should look out for? Would I be better off to build something?

[V8COOPMAN]

Just make sure that your engine stand has FOUR wheels instead of three for stability. 8BAs are OK to hang from rear of block, but one of those exhaust adapters should still work in your traditional engine stand in the future. DD

[alanwoodieman]

just took apart an 8ba today, nasty mess, valves are the hardest part about tearing one down, they do require a special tool to pull out the valve keepers and a couple of special tools to remove the valve/guide assemble after removal of the keepers, keep a can of pb blaster and keep soaking the valve guide from the top down if you can rotate the engine that helps a whole lot as you can spray down the valve chamber as the valve opens--

[alanwoodieman]

pictures of teardown and of engine stand modified to 4 wheels and an adapter to mount engine on exhaust ports--you need to do this with out fail

[Ross F-1]

Originally Posted by V8COOPMAN

Just make sure that your engine stand has FOUR wheels instead of three for stability. 8BAs are OK to hang from rear of block, but one of those exhaust adapters should still work in your traditional engine stand in the future. DD

Not just 4 wheels, but should have 2 horizontal legs. Some have a single leg with two wheels on a cross-piece at the end. Not nearly as stable. If you are going to be hammering on lifters and pistons to get it apart, you want the most stable you can find.

[Los_Control]

Originally Posted by alanwoodieman

just took apart an 8ba today, nasty mess, valves are the hardest part about tearing one down, they do require a special tool to pull out the valve keepers and a couple of special tools to remove the valve/guide assemble after removal of the keepers, keep a can of pb blaster and keep soaking the valve guide from the top down if you can rotate the engine that helps a whole lot as you can spray down the valve chamber as the valve opens--

I like that mod to the stand, would be a lot more stable. Well worth the time spent.
And I see you have your engine bolted by the exhaust bolts and not the rear .... I have heard of blocks cracking when hung from the rear ... guess was my question if the 8BA has same issue and should be hung from the side?
I was thinking the issue was limited to older Ford flatheads.


I do have a 49 dodge truck with a flat 6, I used the exhaust bolts on it, the 6 is long and skinny, it looks comfortable sideways on the stand.
The V8 just looks awkward sideways ... I guess this is not a fashion show.


Just taking a break from cleaning the mouse nest out ... it is not pretty, couple lifters are badly rusted from mouse pee.
My ultimate goal would be a pretty basic stock 100 horse engine, with a little bigger cam and headers.
So lifters and cam would be replaced anyways, am concerned with the lifter bore in the block. Not sure how much play can get away with, wondering if this could be the death of the block?


Starting to think, possibly it had a fuel pump problem, they pulled it from the manifold and let it sit open, mice moved in.
Later came back to work on it and it was stuck, removed head and started on intake and just gave up.



I think today I will raise it back up on chain hoist, drain the dirty black oil from it.
Then set it back down, upside down. Pull the pan and get a good look at the bottom end.
So far, other then the mouse/lifter problem, is looking like a low mile virgin engine.
Sure am hoping can save it.

[flatford8]

Spray the stuck head bolts with your favorite penetrant daily. That fact that you can move them at all is good news!!! Work them back and forth with your air gun a few turns at a time. I wouldn’t use a bar and a pipe, I think you’ll definitely break them off. Patience, patience, patience is your friend here !!.... turn them a little, spray them a lot. It’s been together for years, it’s gonna take more than an hour to take it apart. There’s a huge bunch of knowledge on this forum, report back often.....Mark

[Los_Control]

Originally Posted by flatford8

Spray the stuck head bolts with your favorite penetrant daily. That fact that you can move them at all is good news!!! Work them back and forth with your air gun a few turns at a time. I wouldn’t use a bar and a pipe, I think you’ll definitely break them off. Patience, patience, patience is your friend here !!.... turn them a little, spray them a lot. It’s been together for years, it’s gonna take more than an hour to take it apart. There’s a huge bunch of knowledge on this forum, report back often.....Mark

Thanks for advice, what I found, is my impact wrench was set at lowest setting and needed adjusting. I did put breaker bar and cheater pipe on them, maybe 20 30 pounds pressure they came free with no problem .... makes me want to recheck the torque on the wifes wheels on her car.


I think a picture is worth a thousand words, show what we are working with. Right now playing with uploading pics to post here. going to try one to see if it works ... I dunno

Probably a bad idea, I did use my 4" grinder with a wire cup brush on it to clean the old head gasket material. And I made 3 or 4 passes in the 2 rusty cylinders cleaned up nice. I think they will hone out fine.

[Mart]

Have a good look all round the pan rail surface, the face, inside and outside. You're looking for cracks.
The valves should be easier than the old type because you can use a conventional valve spring compressor to get the collets out. You can then tap the guides down a bit then pull the horseshoe clips out and then pull the guides out. Keep them all as matched assemblies.

If you check mart's garage on youtube I did a complete teardown and rebuild on a despatately crusty flatty. It was an earlier type.

You might find the videos entertaining and from what you have said, yours ought to be a much simpler proposition.

Mart's garage:
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCzc...Vro40j-vjjZShg

Mart.

[Los_Control]

@mart cool am subscribed and full notifications.

[40 Deluxe]

Originally Posted by Los_Control

I like that mod to the stand, would be a lot more stable. Well worth the time spent.
And I see you have your engine bolted by the exhaust bolts and not the rear .... I have heard of blocks cracking when hung from the rear ... guess was my question if the 8BA has same issue and should be hung from the side?
I was thinking the issue was limited to older Ford flatheads.


I do have a 49 dodge truck with a flat 6, I used the exhaust bolts on it, the 6 is long and skinny, it looks comfortable sideways on the stand.
The V8 just looks awkward sideways ... I guess this is not a fashion show.
Just taking a break from cleaning the mouse nest out ... it is not pretty, couple lifters are badly rusted from mouse pee.

I think today I will raise it back up on chain hoist, drain the dirty black oil from it.
Then set it back down, upside down. Pull the pan and get a good look at the bottom end.
So far, other then the mouse/lifter problem, is looking like a low mile virgin engine.
Sure am hoping can save it.

You might want to remove the pan before you turn the engine upside down. There is always some oil left after you drain it, and makes a mess when you roll the engine over.

[Los_Control]

Perfect advice ... expected or not I was not thinking about this ... would be very easy to remove pan while hanging, not make a mess on the floor that needs to be cleaned up.

[Ol' Ron]

I have alway found that a Clintom Manual from the lat 50s is the best source for information about these early cars and their innards. Made for the backyard mechanic.

[Tim Ayers]

Originally Posted by Ol' Ron

I have alway found that a Clintom Manual from the lat 50s is the best source for information about these early cars and their innards. Made for the backyard mechanic.

Me too. Great resources.

[Los_Control]

So a change of plans, While I still need to disassemble the engine, think I would be wiser to spend some time and see if can get it un-stuck first.
The cyl photo is the worst 2, I think they will clean up.

The last photo is where I think most of problem will be, crusty push rods from mouse pee. But there is only 2 or 3 that look bad. But cleaning up.



New plan is to leave the pan on, acetone/atf, diesel clean and soak everything.
Wash it all down into the pan.

Then actually put a breaker bar on it and see if it will turn. Only attempt to turn it over so far is by hand grabbing the crank pulley.
Starting to think if I get it unstuck, and cleaned up, it would probably run.
Assuming it does not have bad bearings/crank

[Mart]

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I wouldn't try and turn it. Not with all the valves and lifters like that.
Pull the cam gear and see if the pistons want to move. Loosen the rod bearings so there is free play and see if you can move the stuck pistons within the free play without having to turn everything else.
If you can pull the crank and pistons/rods, you can then tackle the valves. Just look at one at a time, you should be able to get them apart. Then knock the lifters up from below and pull the cam.

[tubman]

It doesn't look too bad, given the size of that mouse nest.

[leon bee]

I took apart a 53 that had sat for years and years. Oil sludge inside, but nothing else had gotten in there. I never figured out why it was abandoned. I could have made it run, but.....when I got the crank out all the bearing shells had been eaten at by being submerged in the ancient oil.

[Los_Control]

@mart that is good advice ... was your video I watched earlier when you removed your crusty crank, I think would be better off to get it rotating first if I can. And with a little effort I think it will.


@leon bee I may find same issue. Guy was asking $300 for engine/trans ... it did not sell and moved it out closer to his scrap pile. I offered $100 for it, I expected it to be junk, would need to buy a couple used engines to find something to build.
So I am still trying to prove myself correct, so far is a coin toss which way it goes.

[leon bee]

Hell, Los, you need more than one anyway. Good to get started on that 2 ton pile you're gonna have.

[rotorwrench]

Stuck valves have been known to break cams and cam followers if enough pressure is applied. I got a truck motor once where a farmer had been dragging the truck with a tractor to break it free. It broke alright but it didn't break free. I had a hell of a time getting that one apart. Busted cam and a follower with a valve stem sticking in it plus all the usual crusty pistons and other bad parts finally came out but not without a fight.

A good penetrant like the double A variety (Acetone and ATF 1:1 mix) will work wonders over time. Pouring on some of the modern rust removal products like Evaporust won't hurt on the real crusty stuff if your set up to soak it.

[Los_Control]

Ol stinky! .... I have a habit of naming things, Wife car is Lady Belle, my old dodge truck is hound dog hauler. I had another truck project awhile back, I sat in it for the first time, it spoke to me and told me it's name was Molly ..... I get carried away naming things.


I have not been able to work on this motor the last week, had to get Lady Belle ready for a trip to New Mexico.


Back at it today, I pulled the bell housing off and all the pressure plate bolts .... I even took apart the pressure plate .... I know they need to be adjusted, they look pretty robust to me ... do we re-use them?
Tapping it with a hammer, it just wont fall off the flywheel ... I see no other bolts to hold it ... thinking I need a bigger hammer and a pry bar. Unless there is a trick I do not know about, the clutch should fall off the fly wheel.


I pulled the water pumps today, they actually feel real good will check into rebuilding them .... more mouse nest behind them.


Going after the cam gear, I drained the oil. turns out it is not real oil ... it is a mixture of something someone put in it in the past to try and free it up ... man does the oil stink ... I just cant help it, the mouse nest smell terrible, then the old bad oil .... I get within 15 feet of this thing and it smells really really bad. I just cant help it, this motors name is Ol'stinky Sad part is, whatever I put it in, the motor is the heart and the vehicle will carry the name of stinky .... sigh!

[tubman]

Now we're havin' fun!

If you are going to soak it some more, get some Marvel Mystery Oil; it usually works, but even if it doesn't, it smells good.

[Los_Control]

Maybe add some brut by menon cologne

[Los_Control]

I figure I need to get it cleaned up or machine shop wont accept it ...


Same time I wonder, if it stinks, maybe they work on it first to get rid of it?

[Los_Control]

Well it has been awhile since I have posted. I have ideas what I might use the motor for in the future, but no immediate plans for it now. So have it on a stand soaking with 50/50 atf/acetone. For several months and adding more as needed.


The cam gear is removed. Issue is either rings or bearings.


The cylinders are clean, no ridge, No size stamped on pistons appears to be stock bore. I cleaned them up with some fine sandpaper ... Honestly would not be afraid to run them as is, if it was in a car and getting some other work done.
The oil is running past the rings and draining in the pan eventually.


The valves all look as if the engine was running normal, the last time it was running. While they are not all original with the Ford script logo, we know the engine did get a valve job done in the past.


Here is what I think has happened with this engine in the past.
Pull the pan and the crank is stamped .020.
I think the Farmer over revved it, spun a bearing and had the engine gone through & repaired.
Then he spun a bearing again! .... and parked it. Bet he had a few choice words to say about it too. I think this will be a fine engine with a bit of love.
Not much progress but a update. I hope to get it tore down and to a machine shop for a checkup. Will disassemble it without rotating, hope the offending bearing is easy to get to.


Now I have 2 questions hoping someone can help me with.

1, The pressure plate. I messed up and took it apart. Going to be tricky to compress the springs and put it back together.
The surface needs cleaned but no wear marks, the body & springs have dust on them, it appears to be a new pressure plate when the motor was last worked on.
Is it as simple as just compress the body and install the bolts and torque them down?
Or is there some special voo doo magic needed to assemble a pressure plate?
Need to clean the bench off and wondering if to re-use it or toss it and replace?


2, Having problems understanding how the fuel pump rod works. I want to disassemble for machine shop. Not sure if it is pressed in or is it threaded?
I did put some vice grips on it, did not budge.
This motor did have the mouse nest here, Not sure if it is rusted from mouse pee ... should they just pull out? Are they always difficult? Then the tube is hollow but has no exit point .... is it even needed? Whats it's purpose? Does it run off the cam gear and move up & down to operate the fuel pump?
I know and apologize, stupid questions a correct book could answer ... Just trying to get it to a machine shop & clean bill of health before putting any more money into it.

[tubman]

If you are talking about the fuel pump pushrod itself, you should just be able to remove it with three fingers. From what you say, I think the mice got ya'.

As for the clutch, don't fool with it. It's probably worn out anyway. Tell ya' what; when I put the Merc into my '51 Ford 3 years ago, I replaced the clutch, just because. The clutch I pulled out looked fine. I have it all packed up, ready to send it back to Fort Wayne clutch for the $20 core charge. If you want to send me the core charge plus cover the shipping, I'll print a new label and send it to you.

If you have a bad crank, 3 3/4" 8BA cranks are readily available. I myself have one of several that I had checked at the machine shop stacked in the corner. I used the one that the machinist guaranteed would turn .010/.010, while he said this one might have to go .020/.010. Id be willing to make a you a package deal.

That being said, I see you're in Texas so you should be find a comparable deal locally.

[Los_Control]

Thanks for the tip @tubman ... I have searched but not found any complaints about removing the push rod tube. I will apply some heat to it and work on it.


The engine came out of a truck, I have the 4spd 1rst gear granny trans with the big 11" clutch.
I would use same trans, and size of clutch. Original, just installed in a different truck.
I figured I would replace the clutch disk which also looks new. Just do not trust the 50 year old material.
Since the pressure plate is mechanical, thinking it could be reused and maybe better then what we buy today? I just need to compress it enough to get the bolts back in it?


I assume a rebuilt pressure plate would include a new or resurfaced surface, new springs.
My surface has no wear marks, just crud that needs cleaned ... I assume the springs are fine.
Do we just bolt them back together, or buy a new pressure plate?

Is there any secrets to putting a pressure plate together?


Thanks for the offer on clutch and crank, I assume your car did not have a dump truck clutch in it, and shipping of a crank from Minnesota it may be easier to find one local.

[Ol' Ron]

when dealing with a bone stock engine that you know vwer little about. I suggest you find an old motors manual form the year of the engine, Ckintons were the best and covered just abourt everything in the car/truck.
Gramps

[Los_Control]

Thanks @Ol'Ron I agree with you 100% about manuals. Only manual I have for this motor is the 1958 Motors auto repair manual. I bought it for my project truck a 1949 Dodge. I also have 2 other custom manuals written specifically for that truck ... manuals are great.


While the motors manual is good, it lacks a lot of information need at times for my Dodge.


I can assure you there is no section in there to cover disassemble a Ford V8 after it sat with a mouse nest in it for decades. Or a section that tells you how to assemble the pressure plate after you got drunk and pulled it apart. Am sure we all came home on Friday and disassembled the pressure plate on our cars.
I imagine Hot Rodders did to change the springs to go to the strip & race for the weekend.



I love you Ron, Manual will not help me with mouse pee or my own stupid mistakes.
Just asking for a little help to get it apart without destroying it.

[JSeery]

I would seriously consider junking both the 11 inch clutch and the 4 speed transmission. Unless you are planning on using it for a logging truck! Hard to drive with that combo. Get a 3 speed transmission if you want to drive it with a matching clutch assembly.

[Los_Control]

I would seriously consider junking both the 11 inch clutch and the 4 speed transmission. Unless you are planning on using it for a logging truck!



Not exactly a logging truck, but yeah it will be maybe a shop truck? I will use it to drive to the lumber store or the grocery store on a daily basis. Top speed limit in town is 35 mph. The frontage road is 55 mph to the next town ... where we drive our tractors from one field to the next ... 20 mph is good, just do what you can.
I would be replacing a 6 cyl 3 on the tree with a V8 4spd. I am building a truck.


So yeah, the V8 4spd, cab lights, cb radio, west coast mirrors, dual antenna ... thats what am building. Yes I may use it to pull a logging truck out of the woods ... I want the big clutch.

[tubman]

Ah ha! I also have a brand new 11" clutch and pressure plate that I got in a bunch of parts about 10 years ago. I never tried to sell it because nobody wants them. IIRC, it's a "CenterForce".

It's new in the box and you can have it for shipping costs. (I'm downsizing my shop so my kids won't hate me.)

[V8COOPMAN]

Originally Posted by tubman

I also have a brand new 11" clutch and pressure plate. IIRC, it's a "CenterForce".
It's new in the box and you can have it for shipping costs.

GOOD on YOU, Tub! Are there some decent folks here....or what? DD

.

[tubman]

Thanks "Coopman", but I have no use for it, and it's HEAVY.

[Los_Control]

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Originally Posted by tubman

Ah ha! I also have a brand new 11" clutch and pressure plate that I got in a bunch of parts about 10 years ago. I never tried to sell it because nobody wants them. IIRC, it's a "CenterForce".

It's new in the box and you can have it for shipping costs. (I'm downsizing my shop so my kids won't hate me.)

Now you making me feel bad, I am not here for free items.
I have a tremendous amount of respect for @tubman because they step up and attempt to make a difference in the world.
I have my condenser all ready to go & I thank tubman for building it and supply it to us in the wild.


I love the idea they have created a fix for a 6 volt positive ground tach. I am going to go 12 volt & not need it.
Just the fact @tubman steps up and helps the community in their own way ... I am not here asking for free parts for my truck. Though we may be able to work a deal

[tubman]

All good sentiments, "Los_Control", but I am downsizing and I really don't need this.

I am going on a run to the scrap metal dealer in the next week or two; better you than him.

[Los_Control]

Well it will need to be packaged up for shipping, my zipcode is 79512. I would love to have the 11" clutch and use it.
You need to be paid for your time to package it & ship it.
I guess we would need to talk in pm to figure out what to do next.

[tubman]

I'll check it out and make sure it is what I was told it is and get an estimate of shipping costs. It is in the original reinforced carton, so that should help.

I'll get back to you.

[Los_Control]

Thank you.

[tubman]

I went to my shop today and checked on the clutch. The good news is that it is a new RAM clutch disc and pressure plate), still in the box. The bad news is that it is a 10" clutch, not an 11". Sorry, I could swear the guy told me it was an 11" and I never bothered to measure it until today.

No good deed goes unpunished however, but since you got me off my ass on this, I have a much more desirable unit than I thought. At 10" with a 1 3/8X10 spline, I thinks it's a regular pre '49 Ford unit. Sorry to get your hopes up.

[Los_Control]

Happy you found a better clutch then what you thought



I found my answer today on my pressure plate. A video of a guy rebuilding one for a Ferguson tractor.
Not exactly the same as our Fords, but all the main points are the same.
The Gentleman is a wealth of knowledge on many things ... I am now 100% confident putting my pressure plate back together.


I will spend $2 and receive $200 of fun completing the project.
I will post a video of part 2, which is the meat of putting one together. Someone may be interested in it. I also watched part 1 which was very informative. I thought.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k35xYryhuqY


Main goal at this moment is to get my tiny shop cleaned up and organized. This pressure plate has been taking up bench space. I just had to decide to keep it or toss it. I'm keeping it.
Please do not feel bad Tubman, These things must weigh 30 pounds. I did not want to pay shipping for it if I have a good one here already

[Tim Ayers]

Originally Posted by tubman

I went to my shop today and checked on the clutch. The good news is that it is a new RAM clutch disc and pressure plate), still in the box. The bad news is that it is a 10" clutch, not an 11". Sorry, I could swear the guy told me it was an 11" and I never bothered to measure it until today.

No good deed goes unpunished however, but since you got me off my ass on this, I have a much more desirable unit than I thought. At 10" with a 1 3/8X10 spline, I thinks it's a regular pre '49 Ford unit. Sorry to get your hopes up.

Funny how things work out.

I was going to say Centerforce diaphragm clutches aren't that heavy and work really well.

[Los_Control]

Well what I have found out so far, putting the pressure plate back together went fine.
At least I can store it and if needed I will have it.
It was the rear main bearing spun and still welded to the crank. With the cap removed I can now rotate the crank & pistons.
Pretty obvious the motor was rebuilt with low miles on it. Crank has been turned and stamped .010 .020 ... I forget exact # but it has been turned. I suspect I will be looking for a good original used crank someday. Start with a fresh grind and new bearings.


I have a new question today, slightly OT and about tools.
I need to buy a engine crane. I think this flathead V8 is the heaviest motor I own. My choices are limited, pretty much Harbor freight unless someone has a better idea.


My choice is a 1 ton hoist for $200, or $80 more a 2 ton hoist. The hoist will live in a backyard storage area. I just have no room for it indoors.


will the cheaper 1ton hoist work ok with these engines?

Wife OT Dodge V6 weighs 340# I need the hoist now to replace it.
My daily driver is a SBC 350.
My current project is a flathead 6 cyl
Then this flathead V8.

I think I may use it 3 or 4 times in my lifetime, Maybe more. Stored out in a open garden shed (20 years?) Just do not want to spend more then needed.

[marko39]

check the fingers on pressure plate to see that they are equal. there is an exact adjustment that can be found in the old Motor manual.

[Los_Control]

Originally Posted by marko39

check the fingers on pressure plate to see that they are equal. there is an exact adjustment that can be found in the old Motor manual.

Thank you, that is good advice. The video I watched also showed that procedure.
When I first put it together, 1 finger was lower then the others. I rigged up a long bar foe leverage and was able to operate the pressure plate several times to be sure the disk was free and moving. Then all the fingers were equal again.



I got the crank out this morning. Not what I expected.
I loosened all the rods 1 at a time and tried to turn it each time.
Then started with front main and finally when loosened rear main it would easily turn.
The rear main was the problem. The cap came off but bearing was stuck on crank.


I used a punch on the bearings to remove them after crank was on the bench.
They came off easily.

Here are photos of what I found. Only cleaning I have done is with a dry rag and wipe the oil off so far.
There is a little discoloration that you can catch a finger nail on, and a little rust on the edges. I assume this locked up the engine. Then the bearings that go with it.
Just a random rod bearing, they all seem to be the same condition.
There is a couple of stuck rings, they do not want to rotate.


Anyone think that crank could be cleaned up with emery cloth without being turned?

[marko39]

Looks like it had a little water in its oil at some time. I would clean it up better and put it back in the block where you can check it with plastigauge to check clearance.

[Los_Control]

I wanted to add that the motor is incredibly filthy from sitting. It needs hot tanked badly.
I have zero faith in the cam & lifters being good. Couple random photos of the rest of the crank, again just a dry rag and wiped the oil off.
Everything looks good in person, except the rear main I showed.

[don35]

To answer your question about engine weight, a flathead, and a sbc are very close to the same.

[Los_Control]

Originally Posted by don35

To answer your question about engine weight, a flathead, and a sbc are very close to the same.

I appreciate the reply ... Sometimes I feel so stupid. Sometimes when I write out a question then later read it back to myself ... I feel bad.


IMHO of reading back my own question ... I get the impression of... "HEY GUYS, I WANT TO BUY A CHEAP Tool ... WHAT DO YOU THINK?"


I should know better then to ask a question like that. Yet here I am


See I have a 1 ton chain hoist, it has some serious limitations. It will not pickup a 8Ba with the transmission connected. Remove the trans and it picks up the motor ... OK.
I think it is just my chain hoist wore out, but not sure.


Then remember I just want to use it a few times then store it out in the backyard.
I found Tractor supply has a crane for $100 more then harbor freight, $350, I bet it is a lot better.


I suspect to use it a couple times & then it will sit in the weather for 5 years, probably need to replace the cylinder to get it to work again.

I guess the best answer am hoping for is the 1 ton crane is a piece of crap and will not work for our engines/transmission ... Or it is a piece of crap but it will do the job.

[tubman]

An 8BA with transmission is nowhere near 1000 lbs, so I think your appraisal of your chain hoist being worn out is correct.

I got a "Cherry Picker" about 30 years ago and it has been an invaluable tool during that time. Mine is not a "fold-up-for-storage type", but I'd sure try one if I need another.

The best thing is that you don't need anything to hang it on.

[V8COOPMAN]

Originally Posted by don35

To answer your question about engine weight, a flathead, and a sbc are very close to the same.

An 8BA block (no cast iron 1/2-bell) weighs 205 lbs, with main caps, & a 283 Chevy bare block is 148 lbs. DD
.

[tubman]

Originally Posted by V8COOPMAN

An 8BA block (no cast iron 1/2-bell) weighs 205 lbs, with main caps, & a 283 Chevy bare block is 148 lbs. DD
.

At my age and girth, I consider that to be "close"

[tomcarman]

Originally Posted by tubman

An 8BA with transmission is nowhere near 1000 lbs, so I think your appraisal of your chain hoist being worn out is correct.

I got a "Cherry Picker" about 30 years ago and it has been an invaluable tool during that time. Mine is not a "fold-up-for-storage type", but I'd sure try one if I need another.

The best thing is that you don't need anything to hang it on.

We have a fold up cherry picker and it's great. In my opinion for what you're trying to do and on a budget I see them for sale frequently on Craigslist and Offerup for very reasonable prices or for trade. I think a 1000 lb. lift would work just fine. Just make sure you're on good concrete and take things slow.

[Los_Control]

Originally Posted by tomcarman

We have a fold up cherry picker and it's great. In my opinion for what you're trying to do and on a budget I see them for sale frequently on Craigslist and Offerup for very reasonable prices or for trade. I think a 1000 lb. lift would work just fine. Just make sure you're on good concrete and take things slow.

I think Tubman is right, my 1 ton chain hoist is wore out. I bought it off of FB market place used. Is very handy to have around, but with a flathead & transmission it just spins around like a stripped gear or something. Will lift just the engine fine though.


I see the engine cranes on marketplace all the time pretty cheap.

The wife engine blew up 2 weeks ago and been searching for the used crane and nothing available. Story of my life
My plan is to buy the crane this month and next month a engine.
If nothing shows up by the end of the month, will go to harbor freight and buy the 1 ton crane. Just call it a day.


Thats why am working on the 8BA now. Next month will need the engine stand for the wife engine. Trying to get it disassembled and put away. Figure out what it needs to put it back together and later this winter work on it some more.
The crank cleaned up easily. I spent yesterday with gasoline, wire brushes, scotchbrite, vacuum cleaner, compressed air .... I believe with more cleaning, the rotating assembly can be used as is. For a good running used engine.


I set the crank back in and installed the timing gear, trying to turn the valve train.
I have a few stuck lifters.

[Los_Control]

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The crank cleaned up easily. I spent yesterday with gasoline, wire brushes, scotchbrite, vacuum cleaner, compressed air .... I believe with more cleaning, the rotating assembly can be used as is. For a good running used engine.

I set the crank back in and installed the timing gear, trying to turn the valve train.
I have a few stuck lifters.


So now am really stuck. I want to remove the valves/valve guides as a assembly.
I do not have a K-D 918 tool.
I do have a 2 piece valve guide with the mushroom stem.
Even with the tool I may not get them all out. Without the tool seems the only way is to cut the stems and drive the guides down and replace all of it.
A quick google search looks like $1k to replace it all?



Just convinced it was rebuilt and in good condition when parked. The fuel pump was missing and may be the cause of why it was parked.
Crank turned 10/20, bearings are excellent along with the rings, has a few new valves or not oem. Pistons are standard the cylinders hone out nicely but coated in oil for now.

There was very little sludge in it, very little carbon build up. Each cylinder one valve had a small amount of black & the other valve was cocoa brown. The motor ran great the last time it ran.


I just cant bring myself to cut out $1k worth of good valves over a few stuck lifters.
Thinking to use my map gas torch to heat them up and then soak with oil.
Just not confident in success in this approach. Which one is stuck?



If I cut them out, I can remove the lifters and then just concentrate on the remaining stuck lifters.

I just need to think about it and figure out what I want to do with the engine.

[tubman]

In your last post, you said "I do have a 2 piece valve guide with the mushroom stem". I have never seen two piece guides and mushroom stems on an 8BA. I have seen the 8BA pieces used in an earlier engine, but not the other way around. Perhaps someone had the earlier parts and used them in a late engine to save money.

The usual practice is to use the 8BA valve setup in all flatheads, as it is better all around and easier to work with.

[Los_Control]

Originally Posted by tubman

In your last post, you said "I do have a 2 piece valve guide with the mushroom stem". I have never seen two piece guides and mushroom stems on an 8BA. I have seen the 8BA pieces used in an earlier engine, but not the other way around. Perhaps someone had the earlier parts and used them in a late engine to save money.

The usual practice is to use the 8BA valve setup in all flatheads, as it is better all around and easier to work with.

I have never worked on one before ... I admit to being ignorant about them. Honestly I just do not know. This looks like a mushroom stem to me.


And what Tubman is saying is what I am reading. Yet I think I have older valves and this engine came out of a 1951 F1

[Mart]

I think (not 100% sure) they are rotator valves. The mushroom valves were not used (by the factory) in an 8BA.
If you look at a lower angle you should see the valve stem is a smaller diameter where it contacts the lifter.
Mart.

[tubman]

I think you're right, Mart. When I look at the valve on the right, I think I can just see a glint of the valve stem, and it looks like a regular stem. I think he is seeing the rotator mechanism.

I think that the later valves are quite bit cheaper than the "mushroom" pieces, so I would check prices on the later assemblies; you might be pleasantly surprised.

[Los_Control]

Originally Posted by Mart

I think (not 100% sure) they are rotator valves. The mushroom valves were not used (by the factory) in an 8BA.
If you look at a lower angle you should see the valve stem is a smaller diameter where it contacts the lifter.
Mart.

I appreciate your input there mart and am a subscriber to your videos.


When I say I am ignorant, not saying I am stupid, I simply do not know what I have and learning as I go.
I am ignorant because I do not have the knowledge to know what am working with.


I am pretty sure Mart would not jump in and cut these valves out.
My only logical move will be to buy the k-d 918 tool and hope for the best.


I do have a bar and can pop the keepers loose ... and pull the clips out of the top. Just not want to commit to that approach if I have to cut the valve stems.

[petehoovie]

[tubman]

Here's a link to everything you would need to replace your valves for $249.99; a quarter of what you mentioned. There are packages like this all over the internet. https://www.ebay.com/itm/14246937971...MaAvvjEALw_wcB.

[Los_Control]

Hard to get a photo, is it possible I have the later style valve?
Either way still looking for ideas to remove them without the K-D 918 tool or to not destroy them during removal.
Chances look slim & none at this point.

[cadillac512]

You should not have to cut the stems...those are definitely late style valves and retainers. Compress the springs and remove the keepers, shoot some lube on the stems and work the valves up and out. Then you can remove the springs, tap down the guides and pull the clips, and will have access to work with the stuck lifters.



Terry

[V8COOPMAN]

.


These are mushroom stem valves for a flathead. DD

[Los_Control]

Originally Posted by tubman

Here's a link to everything you would need to replace your valves for $249.99; a quarter of what you mentioned. There are packages like this all over the internet. https://www.ebay.com/itm/14246937971...MaAvvjEALw_wcB.

Thanks Tubman, that is a more reasonable approach then H&H flatheads or other speed shops selling parts. I have to think on it before going further. I can see me putting it back together for a reasonable price.
I still think oem parts may be better then what are offered today.


I am just lost and no idea what to do with it.
I know many have bought engines and built a car around them.
My original goal was to save the motor from the scrapyard, I paid $100 for it.
I am just stuck with removing the valves ... I almost wish I found the block cracked and junk. I would be done with the problem.
Seems to be better then expected, yet needs more work with the lifters.


Just saying if someone showed up today and wanted the engine, I would give it to them.
I have a 1949 dodge with a 6 cyl flathead and runs decent ... I just really need to get my ocd under control. Anyone want a 59Ab block, come get it. I am done wasting time on it .... for now.
Even if I fixed it, what would I do with it ... stick it in my dodge?
I honestly need to get rid of this engine before putting money into it.

[tubman]

From what you've posted here, I agree with "cadillac512". It should come apart with a little effort. Follow his advice and you'll have it apart before you know it. Spread your effort over several days, and if you get to an impasse', stop for a day or two and do something else.

It always seems to work for me.

[Mart]

Los, thanks for following the channel.

You're worrying about something that is probably not worth worrying about in your case.
These are more conventional valves than the old mushroom type and as such are much easier to remove.

A conventional valve spring compressor can be used to compress the spring so the keepers can be removed. The valve can then simply be withdrawn straight up and out. The guide can be knocked down just enough to remove the horseshoe clip. Hopefully knocking it down a bit will break the bond and it can be pushed up and out with a pickle fork tool.
If that doesn't work, I'm not 100% sure, but if you can wiggle the spring off the valve, you might be able to knock the guide all the way down and out into the valley area.
I've only dealt with split guides lately so am a but hazy on later guide removal.

All the above supposes the guide has not been able to be removed with the conventional pickle fork method. For reference that method id engage the tool in the slots in the guide, pull the guide down, remove the horseshoe clip and push the whole assembly up and out.

Any questions just ask.

Mart.