Go Back   The Ford Barn > General Discussion > Model A (1928-31)

Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements)

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 07-30-2020, 10:11 AM   #21
Jim Brierley
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Temecula, CA
Posts: 3,333
Default Re: When is a "Model A" no longer a "Model A"

grumpy rick, The modified class rules clearly state it has to be an A or B block, read the rules and you won't be disappointed. I have modified Model A's, and can easily keep up with freeway traffic, and hydraulic brakes so I can stop as they do to. I was involved whith MAFCA whe the modified rules were first set, they are reasonable and fair.
Licensed to kill, so what do you call that pickup that is your icon? Doesn't look stock to me!
Jim Brierley is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-30-2020, 10:54 AM   #22
johnneilson
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: 34.22 N 118.36 W
Posts: 485
Default Re: When is a "Model A" no longer a "Model A"

Quote:
Originally Posted by Will N View Post
I don't profess that my opinion is the only true belief, as variety is the spice of life. If more people felt that way, we'd have less strife in this country now. But here goes: I got into Model A's because of the simplicity and purity of the design. While driving it, you can feel the mechanisms working and you become part of the machine, unlike the total isolation from the machine in modern cars. Anything that changes that driving experience makes a Model A less of a Model A. High compression head, B engine, fancy carburetors, etc. for more power? Why not just get a car that has more power to begin with? Buicks or Chryslers of the Model A era have plenty of power. Overdrive for higher speed? You're missing the point of driving an antique car! You're trying to duplicate a modern car's performance. Just go modern then if speed is what you need. Juice brakes for better stopping power? Why not just repair your mechanical brakes correctly? I can skid all four wheels on both my A's with the standard mechanical set up. I understand people who like the conveniences of a modern car wrapped in the look of an antique. But in my opinion, these good folks are poseurs.
While there are cars that I just do not care for, I have to respect that someones individuality is their decision.
What I feel really causes the "strife" in current times is the labeling of people, when you don't agree with their decisions. We are all here for different reasons, some to judge, some to just enjoy the distraction away from what are current events.

Be safe, John
__________________
As Carroll Smith wrote; All Failures are Human in Origin.
johnneilson is offline   Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements)
Old 07-30-2020, 11:07 AM   #23
Ruth
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2016
Location: Glide, Oregon
Posts: 596
Default Re: When is a "Model A" no longer a "Model A"

I was in a small local car show last year. Cars of all vintage, a lot of nice Model As. The guy parked next to me, actually a friend of mine, entered his car as a '28 Model A.

He won both "Oldest Car in Show" and "Best Vintage Auto". Good on him. The thing is THE only part on the car that was Model A was the chopped coupe body. Nothing else was Model A OR more than a couple of years old. BTW it is registered as a 1928 Model A.

So where DO you draw the line? I surely can't answer that.
__________________
"Sometimes you really DO need to read the whole thread"
Ruth is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-30-2020, 11:22 AM   #24
Licensed to kill
Senior Member
 
Licensed to kill's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2016
Location: Alberta
Posts: 844
Default Re: When is a "Model A" no longer a "Model A"

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim Brierley View Post
Licensed to kill, so what do you call that pickup that is your icon? Doesn't look stock to me!
That's great question, more so than you might think. Here is why. I call it a "1931 Model A pick-up" and that is what it is registered as. However, the only part of that truck that is genuine "1931 model a pick-up" is the back of the cab. The cowl, doors and hood are from another model A, the roof is filled, the box is a short version repop, the front fenders and splash pans are new steel, rear fenders 'glass and the grill is an original '30 grill. It's on a TCI chassis with a 4" drop axle, disc brakes up front, 8" ford rear with drums in back. SBC 350/350. While it LOOKS more stock than Jack Shafts roadster, I'm pretty sure his roadster is more original "model A roadster" than my truck is "original model A pick-up". However, IMO, once you add something that was NOT available at the time of manufacture, IE 12V electrical, it is no longer stock and is no different than my pick-up in that regard. Like being pregnant, there is "pregnant" since last night, and then there is third trimester pregnant. On his more obvious than the other but both are just as pregnant. Again, JMO
Licensed to kill is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-30-2020, 12:09 PM   #25
Tim Ayers
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: NJ
Posts: 3,773
Default Re: When is a "Model A" no longer a "Model A"

Quote:
Originally Posted by PotvinV8 View Post
Is a '55 Chevy with a big block not still a '55 Chevy? What about a '68 C10 with an LS?

A Model A with a Flathead or a Hemi or a Pinto engine is still a Model A. Is it stock or original? No. Is it still a Model A? Yup.

Now you must ask yourself, "Is my Model A that's had myriad modifications over the past 90 years still a Model A?"

How many Model A's are out there that are honestly "unmolested"? Leakless water pump? Ooops, not a Model A! LOL
Agree 100%
Tim Ayers is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-30-2020, 12:43 PM   #26
Jack Shaft
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2019
Posts: 682
Default Re: When is a "Model A" no longer a "Model A"

Quote:
Originally Posted by Licensed to kill View Post
That's great question, more so than you might think. Here is why. I call it a "1931 Model A pick-up" and that is what it is registered as. However, the only part of that truck that is genuine "1931 model a pick-up" is the back of the cab. The cowl, doors and hood are from another model A, the roof is filled, the box is a short version repop, the front fenders and splash pans are new steel, rear fenders 'glass and the grill is an original '30 grill. It's on a TCI chassis with a 4" drop axle, disc brakes up front, 8" ford rear with drums in back. SBC 350/350. While it LOOKS more stock than Jack Shafts roadster, I'm pretty sure his roadster is more original "model A roadster" than my truck is "original model A pick-up". However, IMO, once you add something that was NOT available at the time of manufacture, IE 12V electrical, it is no longer stock and is no different than my pick-up in that regard. Like being pregnant, there is "pregnant" since last night, and then there is third trimester pregnant. On his more obvious than the other but both are just as pregnant. Again, JMO
My sport coupe has model a components, chassis front axld engine transmisson,rear axle and mechanical brakes are all model a design..modified? Yep
Jack Shaft is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-30-2020, 01:17 PM   #27
jb-ob
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 279
Default Re: When is a "Model A" no longer a "Model A"

Has white walls ?? No longer a Model A.
jb-ob is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-30-2020, 04:10 PM   #28
Kevin in NJ
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: South East NJ
Posts: 3,197
Default Re: When is a "Model A" no longer a "Model A"

I talked to the title person in NJ DMV at one point and asked that question. I did not get a solid answer, but when the chassis parts are mostly not original.

This is important because people cheat the rules by doing a rod and keeping the title. Which can cause you problems. Legally if the car is not properly titled then it is not legally registered so it is not insured. I played the game asking these questions to various law enforcement and they were not sure what to say. Needless to say they do not want to try and defend this in court so they they will not do that to you.

In NJ they have been asking for pictures of cars with QQ tag (historic license plates). If the car does not look close enough to factory they have been pulling the title and forcing you to show the car meets the requirements of a home built car. Emissions must meet year of manufacture for the engine. I have personally talked to 2 people that had their titles pulled (they let them continue driving in the mean time). They needed to prove they paid all the taxes on the parts in the car and submit them for a safety inspection.
__________________
Cabriolet and Technical Hints
Kevin in NJ is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-30-2020, 05:35 PM   #29
Chris Haynes
Senior Member
 
Chris Haynes's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: North Hills, CA and Pine Grove, CA
Posts: 2,462
Default Re: When is a "Model A" no longer a "Model A"

I would say if it still has an original Model A Frame that it is an A. If it has an aftermarket frame it is a custom vehicle that simply has some part of an A body on it.
__________________
1921 Runabout
1930 Tudor
Early 1930 AA
Speed costs money. How fast do you want to go?
Chris Haynes is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-30-2020, 06:21 PM   #30
Licensed to kill
Senior Member
 
Licensed to kill's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2016
Location: Alberta
Posts: 844
Default Re: When is a "Model A" no longer a "Model A"

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris Haynes View Post
I would say if it still has an original Model A Frame that it is an A. If it has an aftermarket frame it is a custom vehicle that simply has some part of an A body on it.
So a car built with an original model A frame with a 'glass dune buggy body and a Nissan driveline would be a Model A but a model A body on an aftermarket frame is not?.
Licensed to kill is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-30-2020, 06:49 PM   #31
Pete
Senior Member
 
Pete's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Wa.
Posts: 3,836
Default Re: When is a "Model A" no longer a "Model A"

Over the years I have had more fun than a barrel of monkeys with my A by taking it to small car shows. I wouldn’t try it now though because I have added a couple things to the interior like a digital speedometer, high back seats, a stereo and a bolt in roll cage.

Back then though it looked completely stock on the inside and out down to the original wheels. Granted they had adapters to mount on aluminum race hubs with disc brakes but from 6 feet away it looked stock. I ran aluminum wheels normally.
It has had various engines from a B to a flathead V8 and then to a 406 SBC. Always had side panels with baffles on the hood so you couldn’t see in.

It was always interesting to get in a conversation with an old timer and invariably they would ask how fast I had driven it. When I would say over 150 many times they would either call me a liar or keel over in a faint. When I showed them the SCTA dash plaque verifying my statement, usually they would just shake their head and walk away…..Like I said about the monkeys.
Pete is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-30-2020, 08:17 PM   #32
Jack Shaft
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2019
Posts: 682
Default Re: When is a "Model A" no longer a "Model A"

Being a posseur or in English a poser,one who imitates to gain standing is the realm of restoration in my opinion. Modification by definition is the antithesis of posing, your personal skill is displayed not in imitation but in the expression of yourself
Jack Shaft is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-30-2020, 08:20 PM   #33
Synchro909
Senior Member
 
Synchro909's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2014
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Posts: 5,157
Default Re: When is a "Model A" no longer a "Model A"

Here, there is a rule in car judging that says that for a car to be considered a particular make or model, 5 of the 7 major components must be from that model and the others must be period. The 7 components are:
  1. Chassis
  2. Engine
  3. Gearbox
  4. Front end
  5. Rear end
  6. Radiator
  7. Steering column
It is interesting to note that no part of the body is considered.
In my book, a hot rod usually has a V8 engine, different transmission, steering, front and rear ends at least so too many of he components are "foreign" to that model.
Also, under our system, a modified car cannot be registered as a (say) 1929 Model A if it is modified outside rather stringent constraints. We do not have title for cars so that consideration is irrelevant.
__________________
It is no burden to carry a little extra knowledge.
Synchro909 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-30-2020, 08:23 PM   #34
daren007
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2015
Location: Saint Cloud Mn
Posts: 593
Default Re: When is a "Model A" no longer a "Model A"

Once again. What’s the lure of keeping up with freeway traffic.
daren007 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-30-2020, 09:22 PM   #35
Jack Shaft
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2019
Posts: 682
Default Re: When is a "Model A" no longer a "Model A"

Maybe not in St Cloud,but in Sacramento driving a stock model a is dicey,if you can't keep up with the flow of traffic either on the arterials or the freeways your experience will be unpleasant.
Jack Shaft is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-31-2020, 01:41 AM   #36
PotvinV8
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2018
Posts: 33
Default Re: When is a "Model A" no longer a "Model A"

Quote:
Originally Posted by daren007 View Post
Once again. What’s the lure of keeping up with freeway traffic.
It beats being rearended?
PotvinV8 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-31-2020, 03:04 AM   #37
dave in australia
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Victoria, Australia
Posts: 1,027
Default Re: When is a "Model A" no longer a "Model A"

Quote:
Originally Posted by Synchro909 View Post
Here, there is a rule in car judging that says that for a car to be considered a particular make or model, 5 of the 7 major components must be from that model and the others must be period. The 7 components are:
  1. Chassis
  2. Engine
  3. Gearbox
  4. Front end
  5. Rear end
  6. Radiator
  7. Steering column
It is interesting to note that no part of the body is considered.
In my book, a hot rod usually has a V8 engine, different transmission, steering, front and rear ends at least so too many of he components are "foreign" to that model.
Also, under our system, a modified car cannot be registered as a (say) 1929 Model A if it is modified outside rather stringent constraints. We do not have title for cars so that consideration is irrelevant.
If I remember correctly, the emissions requirement went on the year of the engine or body, whichever was the latest. Glad we have street rod, modified rego as well as historic rego, save people trying to pass rods off as vintage.
dave in australia is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-31-2020, 05:57 AM   #38
Hotrodfil
Senior Member
 
Hotrodfil's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Norfolk UK
Posts: 154
Default Re: When is a "Model A" no longer a "Model A"

Quote:
Originally Posted by Synchro909 View Post
Here, there is a rule in car judging that says that for a car to be considered a particular make or model, 5 of the 7 major components must be from that model and the others must be period. The 7 components are:
  1. Chassis
  2. Engine
  3. Gearbox
  4. Front end
  5. Rear end
  6. Radiator
  7. Steering column
Ah - 6 out of 7, mine are both stock then...



Hotrodfil is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-31-2020, 08:23 AM   #39
Licensed to kill
Senior Member
 
Licensed to kill's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2016
Location: Alberta
Posts: 844
Default Re: When is a "Model A" no longer a "Model A"

Quote:
Originally Posted by Synchro909 View Post
Here, there is a rule in car judging that says that for a car to be considered a particular make or model, 5 of the 7 major components must be from that model and the others must be period. The 7 components are:
  1. Chassis
  2. Engine
  3. Gearbox
  4. Front end
  5. Rear end
  6. Radiator
  7. Steering column
It is interesting to note that no part of the body is considered.
Yes that IS odd that the body is not on that list. Then again, to me it's odd that people would let others "judge" their car for them. I don't understand that.

Quote:
In my book, a hot rod usually has a V8 engine, different transmission, steering, front and rear ends at least so too many of he components are "foreign" to that model.
Technically, a "hot rod" is any car that has been modified to go faster or be more powerful therefore, an otherwise stock Model A with a high compression head or mitchell overdrive is a "hot rod". Just like "modified" there are different levels of "hot rod" but still technically a hot rod.

Quote:
Also, under our system, a modified car cannot be registered as a (say) 1929 Model A if it is modified outside rather stringent constraints. We do not have title for cars so that consideration is irrelevant.
I get that to a point. Example would be the opening scene in Cheech and Chongs "up in smoke" where Tommy pulls out in his VW bug with a Rolls Royce grill straped to it. Doesn't make the car a Rolls.
Licensed to kill is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-31-2020, 08:32 AM   #40
30 Closed Cab PU
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2018
Location: Wisconsin
Posts: 2,242
Default Re: When is a "Model A" no longer a "Model A"

Hotrodfil - Thanks for the pics. I like your cars. I like all types. But appreciate cars that look like they would in their day, not flashy, look cared for, and look like they are driven every day.


What kind of paint? Has that duller deeper looking finish like lacquer (which personally I like).



What name brand tires are you using? The top car looks like bias ply, bottom car radials?
30 Closed Cab PU is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements)


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 03:54 AM.