Go Back   The Ford Barn > General Discussion > Model A (1928-31)

Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements)

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 07-26-2020, 11:00 AM   #1
freak
Senior Member
 
freak's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: Pemberville, Ohio
Posts: 416
Default starter not engaging

Went out to start my 30 today and the starter won't engage. It's spinning and sounds a little "rattley". I haven't taken it apart yet but for those of you who have worked on them a lot can you give a guess on what went wrong?

Last edited by freak; 07-26-2020 at 11:21 AM.
freak is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-26-2020, 11:20 AM   #2
Purdy Swoft
Senior Member
 
Purdy Swoft's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Alabama
Posts: 7,974
Default Re: starter no engaging

If the starter would spin but not engage , it could be something simple like oil on the starter drive .
Purdy Swoft is offline   Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements)
Old 07-26-2020, 12:08 PM   #3
Will N
Senior Member
 
Will N's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Pennsylvania
Posts: 772
Default Re: starter not engaging

More than likely it is a broken bendix spring, or perhaps a bolt holding the bendix spring is broken or has backed itself out. I had that happen to me once. A tab on the lock washer broke and the bolt backed out and fell into the bellhousing. I was able to fish it out with a tool I have that I think I got at Harbor Freight. It's a combination magnet, grappling claw and light on the end of stiff but flexible cable. I shoved it down through the starter hole (after removing the starter), below the flywheel, and sure enough the magnet got it and I fished the bolt out. This happened at a New England meet, and I did the repair in the parking lot. I carry a spare bendix drive, so I was able to replace the lock washer.
Will N is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-26-2020, 12:11 PM   #4
freak
Senior Member
 
freak's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: Pemberville, Ohio
Posts: 416
Default Re: starter not engaging

I don't understand how the bendix works on that starter. Can you explain it to me?
freak is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-26-2020, 03:42 PM   #5
chrs1961815
Senior Member
 
chrs1961815's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2018
Location: Spring Grove, Illinois
Posts: 854
Default Re: starter not engaging

The bendix spring is held in place by two bolts with special lockwashers. They have a tendency to eventually break with all of the torque that happens on the drive gear each time the starter is engaged. If they are not installed correctly, they will fall out. That happened to me two months ago. They are tricky to get out, what I did was stick a magnet on the flywheel and rotate it. If you drop a magnet in there - no big deal, the flywheel ring gear will pulverize it with no damage since it is hardened (which is also what I did).
__________________
"The more things change, the more they stay the same."
chrs1961815 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-26-2020, 04:09 PM   #6
talwrench
Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2015
Location: Quakertown, PA
Posts: 60
Default Re: starter not engaging

Just two weeks ago this happened to me . You exact symtoms. It was missimg one bolt on the bendix spring. Replaced new tab lock washer and bolt . total repair time in and out about 1 1/2 hours. Glad it happened when it did. was going on a 100 mile trip the next day!!
talwrench is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-26-2020, 04:16 PM   #7
freak
Senior Member
 
freak's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: Pemberville, Ohio
Posts: 416
Default Re: starter not engaging

Mine broke right in the garage. Not typical!
freak is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-26-2020, 05:17 PM   #8
Kurt in NJ
Senior Member
 
Kurt in NJ's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: on the Littlefield
Posts: 5,209
Default Re: starter not engaging

A weak battery can also be the cause---the gear is on a screw thread attached to the shaft with a cushion spring, that spring is attached with bolts with special locking washers

if the battery is weak it won't spin the starter to speed quick enough to screw the gear into mesh with the fly wheel ---ih there is congealed grease on the threads the gear will stick

as has been mentioned, the bolts can break or come out

another thing that can happen with wear the gear can hit the ring gear just wrong and jam, then you put car in 3rd gear and rock to jar it loose
Kurt in NJ is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-26-2020, 05:52 PM   #9
Jacksonlll
Senior Member
 
Jacksonlll's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Michigan-- Member of Oakleaf of MARC
Posts: 1,474
Send a message via ICQ to Jacksonlll
Default Re: starter not engaging

Take your starter out and look at it.
Jacksonlll is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-26-2020, 05:56 PM   #10
Patrick L.
Senior Member
 
Patrick L.'s Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Upstate NY and western Florida
Posts: 5,829
Default Re: starter not engaging

I agree, Take it out and have a look.
Patrick L. is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-27-2020, 07:19 AM   #11
freak
Senior Member
 
freak's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: Pemberville, Ohio
Posts: 416
Default Re: starter not engaging

Of course I will. I didn't have time yesterday though and just wanted to get some opinions.
freak is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-27-2020, 07:57 AM   #12
Jacksonlll
Senior Member
 
Jacksonlll's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Michigan-- Member of Oakleaf of MARC
Posts: 1,474
Send a message via ICQ to Jacksonlll
Default Re: starter not engaging

Probably just a broken bendix spring. The classic failure. Easy to fix and does not cost much. If you are in a club, someone will have one in their tool box.
Jacksonlll is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-27-2020, 09:06 AM   #13
freak
Senior Member
 
freak's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: Pemberville, Ohio
Posts: 416
Default Re: starter not engaging

Yep broken spring. Fortunately nothing fell into the housing. Thanks for the input gentlemen!
freak is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-27-2020, 09:08 AM   #14
freak
Senior Member
 
freak's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: Pemberville, Ohio
Posts: 416
Default Re: starter not engaging

I just noticed... Mine doesn't have that small pinion gear spring. Should I get a bendix that has that or isn't it necessary?
freak is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-27-2020, 04:44 PM   #15
Chuck Sea/Tac
Senior Member
 
Chuck Sea/Tac's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Between Seattle & Tacoma
Posts: 1,978
Default Re: starter not engaging

Quote:
Originally Posted by freak View Post
I just noticed... Mine doesn't have that small pinion gear spring. Should I get a bendix that has that or isn't it necessary?
Post a picture. There are two basic types of bendix. barrell type and original(open). There is only one spring. With the curled ends.
Chuck Sea/Tac is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-27-2020, 04:54 PM   #16
freak
Senior Member
 
freak's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: Pemberville, Ohio
Posts: 416
Default Re: starter not engaging

Look at the original style bendix on Snyders or Mac's. There is a very light spring at the end opposite of the flat heavy spring.
freak is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-27-2020, 05:18 PM   #17
Chuck Sea/Tac
Senior Member
 
Chuck Sea/Tac's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Between Seattle & Tacoma
Posts: 1,978
Default Re: starter not engaging

That’s not a spring. It’s the spiral cut the bendix rides back and forth on.
In the picture, I can see how you might think it’s a spring,
Chuck Sea/Tac is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-27-2020, 05:32 PM   #18
freak
Senior Member
 
freak's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: Pemberville, Ohio
Posts: 416
Default Re: starter not engaging

There's a spring. I even called Mac's and they said there's a lightweight spring to push the gear back out of the flywheel. He said if I didn't have one it's missing.
freak is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-27-2020, 06:32 PM   #19
Kurt in NJ
Senior Member
 
Kurt in NJ's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: on the Littlefield
Posts: 5,209
Default Re: starter not engaging

not all have that spring/plunger, there are several different designs, to complicate the differences more I have used parts of Citroen drives in flatheads and A, and used "A" drive in Citroen
there is one version that has a weak spring on the shaft that pushes the gear directly, there is a version with the little spring/plungerthat rides in a smaller diameter area when retracted and a version without either.
the gear gets pushed back when the engine starts, the little springs/pins etc are only to keep the gear from vibrating into the ring gear

post some pictures of what you have
Kurt in NJ is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-27-2020, 07:13 PM   #20
Bob C
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: So Cal
Posts: 7,015
Default Re: starter not engaging

This is the spring he is asking about.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg 64-26192.jpg (45.2 KB, 35 views)
Bob C is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-27-2020, 07:34 PM   #21
freak
Senior Member
 
freak's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: Pemberville, Ohio
Posts: 416
Default Re: starter not engaging

Yep
freak is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-27-2020, 07:46 PM   #22
Chuck Sea/Tac
Senior Member
 
Chuck Sea/Tac's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Between Seattle & Tacoma
Posts: 1,978
Default Re: starter not engaging

This is similar to the brake return spring. I can’t see why you would need it, it probably can’t hurt. I have 35 ish starters and have never seen this spring.
Chuck Sea/Tac is offline   Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements)
Old 07-27-2020, 10:32 PM   #23
freak
Senior Member
 
freak's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: Pemberville, Ohio
Posts: 416
Default Re: starter not engaging

The bendix with the return spring looks made different to me. You cannot see the pinion gear spiral on this model. On a bendix without the spring you can see the spiral.
freak is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-28-2020, 02:11 PM   #24
Benson
Senior Member
 
Benson's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 2,072
Default Re: starter not engaging

Quote:
Originally Posted by freak View Post
The bendix with the return spring looks made different to me. You cannot see the pinion gear spiral on this model. On a bendix without the spring you can see the spiral.

1. That is the REPRO design. If spring is missing from the repro design the bendix gear will "cam forward" and will sometimes strike the flywheel ring gear while engine is running.

Makes a very intermittent low volume 'CHING CHING' noise especially when pointed down hill.

2. The original Bendix model does not have that spring and spiral is quite visible.

Last edited by Benson; 07-29-2020 at 02:27 PM.
Benson is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-28-2020, 07:59 PM   #25
freak
Senior Member
 
freak's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: Pemberville, Ohio
Posts: 416
Default Re: starter not engaging

So if you have one without the spring is it an original part or were they reproduced as well?
freak is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-29-2020, 01:52 PM   #26
Benson
Senior Member
 
Benson's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 2,072
Default Re: starter not engaging

As far as I know the original Bendix design was not reproduced.

Unless Rick, JC Whitney or the Argentina boys sold some repros.

I will ask around.

It seems that several companies made Drives but do not know their names or whether they were of Bendix designs or not.

Last edited by Benson; 07-29-2020 at 03:28 PM.
Benson is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-30-2020, 06:41 PM   #27
freak
Senior Member
 
freak's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: Pemberville, Ohio
Posts: 416
Default Re: starter not engaging

Got the replacement in from Snyders. Here is a comparison between the two. The new one is one the left. The original is stamped "Eclipse Bendix Made in Elmira NY USA" and also has a ton of patent numbers.



Last edited by freak; 07-30-2020 at 06:50 PM.
freak is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-31-2020, 12:51 AM   #28
Big hammer
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2014
Location: Land of Lincoln
Posts: 2,077
Default Re: starter not engaging

Rebuild the one on the right. Do not use grease or oil on the spiral. Good for many years.
__________________
Don't force it with a little hammer tap, tap, tap
get a bigger hammer tap done
Big hammer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-31-2020, 08:41 AM   #29
freak
Senior Member
 
freak's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: Pemberville, Ohio
Posts: 416
Default Re: starter not engaging

Yeah it needs a new spring and bolts. Wish I would have included them in my last order to save shipping costs. I'll get them next time I have a bigger order.
freak is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements)


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 12:00 AM.