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Old 07-24-2020, 01:59 PM   #1
Kube
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Default Drake 40 dlx headlamp rims (bezels)

More drake quality (the lack thereof)...
Brand new, right out of the box. - I'd attempted to fit them prior to painting the fenders and am glad I did. They fit horribly. I suppose I could pull them down but they will bite in to the paint so deeply, I am 100% certain the paint will lift.
Fitting an authentic bezel there is zero issue.
Comparing the repop to the authentic reveals the authentic is wider by about 3/16".
I am certain Drake's boys have never heard of this issue before and that I am the only one that this has happened with.
Yeah, right...
And just to get in front of those that say "you should be glad that drake makes...". Not when it is crap.
Ad says "perfect" copy. That's what I'd paid for.
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Old 07-24-2020, 02:11 PM   #2
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Default Re: Drake 40 dlx headlamp rims (bezels)

I had the same issue over a year ago. I returned them for a refund which I highly recommend.
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Old 07-24-2020, 02:16 PM   #3
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Default Re: Drake 40 dlx headlamp rims (bezels)

Too bad they have let the quality slip... Fortunately I bought mine from Drake 30 years ago and they fit very well.
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Old 07-24-2020, 02:18 PM   #4
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Default Re: Drake 40 dlx headlamp rims (bezels)

Why can't the manufacturers make the quality that we have come to expect, rather that producing something that may look okay in their catalog, but not in real life. In the early 1970's I had an early ford parts store. We were dealers for most of the aftermarket suppliers. The one supplier that had consistent first quality parts was A&L parts in Connecticut. He produced excellent quality products at very reasonable prices. Al, ( A&L) was more concerned with the long run, not just to make a quick buck. Al is no longer with us, but his son Allen is following in his father's footsteps. A&L produced mostly model A reproduction parts, but my partner and I convinced Al to make the 1932 Ford tail light, and the 2 correct horn I.D. tags for the 1932 Sparton horn, from samples that we supplied to him. thankfully he did produce them.
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Old 07-24-2020, 03:49 PM   #5
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Default Re: Drake 40 dlx headlamp rims (bezels)

A&L has been a great source for small, hard to find goodies for '32-'34s over the years, such as the horn data plates mentioned by Nick and while it lasted, hard core radiator shell and cowl lacing, metal tire valve stem hardware, authentic windshield wiper hardware, etc. Too bad that as of June this year they no longer sell at retail.
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Old 07-24-2020, 04:11 PM   #6
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Default Re: Drake 40 dlx headlamp rims (bezels)

The sad thing is that it would not cost any more to make a correct reproduction rather than an unusable piece of crap!
Why do they do this?
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Old 07-24-2020, 04:13 PM   #7
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Default Re: Drake 40 dlx headlamp rims (bezels)

If it's a stamping then most likely dies were involved. With that much difference in size, it makes a person wonder what the die maker used as a pattern or if they had a pattern at all. If they used some crappy reproduction to make a pattern then the successive parts are doomed to have the same flaws.
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Old 07-24-2020, 04:40 PM   #8
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It seems like the prototype part of the development process gets left out. Without a trial run and prove out that the part fits and functions as intended, it's a shot in the dark and a leap of faith in the actual manufacturer of the part, be they in Taiwan, China, or the U.S..
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Old 07-24-2020, 04:53 PM   #9
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Default Re: Drake 40 dlx headlamp rims (bezels)

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The sad thing is that it would not cost any more to make a correct reproduction rather than an unusable piece of crap!
Why do they do this?

This is the $64,000 question! Bob Drake and/or you other vendors, please tell us WHY you continue to sell shoddy, mis-shapen parts when there is no reason for doing so!!
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Old 07-24-2020, 05:08 PM   #10
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This is the $64,000 question! Bob Drake and/or you other vendors, please tell us WHY you continue to sell shoddy, mis-shapen parts when there is no reason for doing so!!
It actually does cost more to hold tolerances tighter.
You've all heard of the military paying $600 for a hammer that you and I can buy at Lowes for $15.
There's a lot of truth to that scenario.
I did a lot of tool making for government supplied parts. Some of the tolerances we had to hold were well, just plain stupid. That drove the costs way up.
One that I recall not so fondly was the cap that subsequently was mated to the dipstick for Abrams (sp?) tanks.
The cap itself had to be perfectly round within .003" TIR. While that may sound easy to make, it isn't. Give me .020" and I'll be pounding them out as fast as you can blink.
then, the dipstick itself... the markings had to be within .005" (+/- .0025"). Okay, i get why they need to be quite accurate but on an engine that holds twenty some gallons of oil, give me .020" and again, easy, peasy.

My point is, it does cost more to tighten up tolerances.
The guy having the stuff made is well aware of this and makes a choice. Less profit and a better part or more profit and well, poopy?
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Old 07-24-2020, 05:20 PM   #11
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Default Re: Drake 40 dlx headlamp rims (bezels)

Don't the designer engineers and the production engineers ever get together to make a cost effective part and actually see how it needs fits? Like Mike said, the markings on a dip stick don't need to be + or - .0025".
That's just common sense.
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Old 07-24-2020, 06:22 PM   #12
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Don't the designer engineers and the production engineers ever get together to make a cost effective part and actually see how it needs fits? Like Mike said, the markings on a dip stick don't need to be + or - .0025".
That's just common sense.
I was told that in the military there is such a heightened sense of CYA that designs are drawn to the tightest specifications so as to eliminate as much as possible any negative issues down the road.

Want another story? Well, you're gonna get one.
I made the tooling for what was called a "collector". Apparently it went near (on?) the back of a jet engine and caught, well, I don't know... it caught something.
We would sell these to Allison for $900 back in 1990 or so. They were stainless and had dimensional tolerances that would make a mortal man cry. Allison would literally triple the cost to the army. All they did was take it out of our box, put it in theirs's and ship.
Anyway, I met a jet mechanic that had replaced this part numerous times. He told me to do it by the book took an entire day. Take a leather mallet and whack the side in, it took about an hour.
Guess which method was employed?
So, we are building these things to the most stringent tolerances and they are subsequently beat with a leather mallet.
Obviously the beating did not effect the installed performance.
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Old 07-24-2020, 07:17 PM   #13
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Default Re: Drake 40 dlx headlamp rims (bezels)

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It actually does cost more to hold tolerances tighter.
You've all heard of the military paying $600 for a hammer that you and I can buy at Lowes for $15.
There's a lot of truth to that scenario.
I did a lot of tool making for government supplied parts. Some of the tolerances we had to hold were well, just plain stupid. That drove the costs way up.
One that I recall not so fondly was the cap that subsequently was mated to the dipstick for Abrams (sp?) tanks.
The cap itself had to be perfectly round within .003" TIR. While that may sound easy to make, it isn't. Give me .020" and I'll be pounding them out as fast as you can blink.
then, the dipstick itself... the markings had to be within .005" (+/- .0025"). Okay, i get why they need to be quite accurate but on an engine that holds twenty some gallons of oil, give me .020" and again, easy, peasy.

My point is, it does cost more to tighten up tolerances.
The guy having the stuff made is well aware of this and makes a choice. Less profit and a better part or more profit and well, poopy?

Understood that super tight tolerances raise the cost. But, from your experience, how much extra would it cost to hold, say, a 1/32" tolerance on those headlight bezels over the 3/16" tolerance accepted by Bob Drake?
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Old 07-24-2020, 08:30 PM   #14
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Default Re: Drake 40 dlx headlamp rims (bezels)

I'am not here to defend Drake as I have received junk parts from several vendors. I will say that the holes in 80 year old fenders may not be perfect and the bezels i got from Drake didn't fit very good but with some hand forming the soft metal you can get a pretty good fit.
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Old 07-24-2020, 09:00 PM   #15
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Default Re: Drake 40 dlx headlamp rims (bezels)

CHINA--that is where most of the repro parts are made and they could care LESS, they still get there money before the product is shipped. This also applies to just about anything from china, drugs with asbestos, children's milk formula with melamine and the list goes on. Smartin up America
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Old 07-24-2020, 09:14 PM   #16
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Wow Mike. Thanks for the true stories of how the gov't "saves us money".

There must be millions more to tell.
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Old 07-24-2020, 09:14 PM   #17
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Default Re: Drake 40 dlx headlamp rims (bezels)

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CHINA--that is where most of the repro parts are made and they could care LESS, they still get there money before the product is shipped. This also applies to just about anything from china, drugs with asbestos, children's milk formula with melamine and the list goes on. Smartin up America
Oh please, not this again. Do you really think that the Chinese just sit down and decide to send inferior products to the USA? Nope, these inferior products are all ordered by greedy AMERICAN coporations trying to maximize their profits.

By the way, it is spelled "smartEn".
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Old 07-24-2020, 09:43 PM   #18
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Default Re: Drake 40 dlx headlamp rims (bezels)

[QUOTE=tubman;1912736]Oh please, not this again. Do you really think that the Chinese just sit down and decide to send inferior products to the USA? Nope, these inferior products are all ordered by greedy AMERICAN coporations trying to maximize their profits.

By the way, it is spelled "smartEn".[/QUOT


You're 100% right, Tubman! Thanks for setting the record straight (again)!
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Old 07-25-2020, 08:43 AM   #19
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Oh please, not this again. Do you really think that the Chinese just sit down and decide to send inferior products to the USA? Nope, these inferior products are all ordered by greedy AMERICAN coporations trying to maximize their profits.

By the way, it is spelled "smartEn".
So, can we say that if American "producers" were willing to pay Chinese more for making high quality parts, the Chinese manufacturers would do so?
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Old 07-25-2020, 08:55 AM   #20
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Default Re: Drake 40 dlx headlamp rims (bezels)

Since those are junk anyway you might try something I read about years ago. If the issue is that they seem too "narrow". Somebody wrote that you could lay a towel down on a surface like a work bench, put the bezel on it upside down, take another towel and using both hands push the edges down which would force the bezel edges to become wider. I bet those things can flex out 3/32 on each side, maybe a bit more due to spring back.
I am wondering if during the chrome step if the machine that polishes or buffs them puts too much pressure on the sides or perhaps they are shrinking after being molded. See if you can make them fit.
I had 5 NOS in the envelope deluxe bezels that were raw pot metal that I had all chromed with the rest of my stuff and 2 of them as warned by my buddy at the chrome place said pocked up big time and half dissolved. I did get enough for my wagon and 1 spare. You have nothing to lose by trying.
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Old 07-25-2020, 09:10 AM   #21
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So, can we say that if American "producers" were willing to pay Chinese more for making high quality parts, the Chinese manufacturers would do so?
Without question.
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Old 07-25-2020, 09:10 AM   #22
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I bought a pair of the headlight bezels a few years ago. I forget who they came from, but the tang at the top that goes into the slot in the bucket was too wide on both sides. I had to take a cutoff wheel and trim the tang so they would even fit on the car.
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Old 07-25-2020, 09:12 AM   #23
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Since those are junk anyway you might try something I read about years ago. If the issue is that they seem too "narrow". Somebody wrote that you could lay a towel down on a surface like a work bench, put the bezel on it upside down, take another towel and using both hands push the edges down which would force the bezel edges to become wider. I bet those things can flex out 3/32 on each side, maybe a bit more due to spring back.
I am wondering if during the chrome step if the machine that polishes or buffs them puts too much pressure on the sides or perhaps they are shrinking after being molded. See if you can make them fit.
I had 5 NOS in the envelope deluxe bezels that were raw pot metal that I had all chromed with the rest of my stuff and 2 of them as warned by my buddy at the chrome place said pocked up big time and half dissolved. I did get enough for my wagon and 1 spare. You have nothing to lose by trying.
I agree with you in a possible remedy. However, I am not fond of flexing chrome plating. Methinks that would come back to haunt me in the future.
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Old 07-25-2020, 09:16 AM   #24
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Understood that super tight tolerances raise the cost. But, from your experience, how much extra would it cost to hold, say, a 1/32" tolerance on those headlight bezels over the 3/16" tolerance accepted by Bob Drake?
In China where 99% of his parts are manufactured? ? Not much.
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Old 07-25-2020, 10:09 AM   #25
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Taiwan manufactures a lot of the chrome plated parts that are used in the US whether for motorcycles or other purposes due to the chrome plating more than the metal forming. Plating processes are very expensive to operate here in the USA due to the EPA regs on heavy metals. There are shops that still operate here in the USA but they have to add all the overhead for the disposal of hazardous materials on to each finished part so it get more expensive every year.

The metal forming process can be expensive to get a good set of dies and they only last for so many blows of the press before they lose their tolerances. The presses are expensive too. There are still a lot of places here in the USA that could perform this type of manufacturing but I have no idea what the difference in price would be with offshore competition.
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Old 07-25-2020, 10:43 AM   #26
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Taiwan manufactures a lot of the chrome plated parts that are used in the US whether for motorcycles or other purposes due to the chrome plating more than the metal forming. Plating processes are very expensive to operate here in the USA due to the EPA regs on heavy metals. There are shops that still operate here in the USA but they have to add all the overhead for the disposal of hazardous materials on to each finished part so it get more expensive every year.

The metal forming process can be expensive to get a good set of dies and they only last for so many blows of the press before they lose their tolerances. The presses are expensive too. There are still a lot of places here in the USA that could perform this type of manufacturing but I have no idea what the difference in price would be with offshore competition.
China die making is a mere fraction of what it cost in the USA. As an example, a die I had built in 2000 or so cost a bit north of $200k when it was finalized and put in to production. The company I'd worked for, had received a bid from a company in China that did / does a lot of die building for US concerns. That bid was 25% - $50,000.
Fortunately the man that owned our company believed in keeping good paying jobs here.

With proper maintenance and repair, some dies last for 100's of pieces, some for millions. Many variables play in to the longevity. Design, quality of build and purpose being just a few.
I had built stamping dies that ran hundreds of thousands of pieces with only simple maintenance.
Form dies and deep draw dies don't typically last very long without some rebuilding involved. The stresses are too great on the die components.

Plating in the US? You are spot on my friend! I get my plating done in rural Wisconsin. The fellow that owns the place hired a person a number of years ago to ONLY deal with the EPA and DNR, etc. He'd told me they were so burdensome that it was cheaper to hire someone to deal with that specifically while he did manual labor.
His costs have reflected that. No complaints from me. The man does stunning work.
Still, there's good reason these types of companies are monitored so closely. Too many were "dumping in the night".
A local StripRite shop closed a number of years ago - the owner literally leaving the state in the middle of the night. Turns out the EPA had been "knocking on his door" for a while and he knew he was about to be "caught". Turns out he had 100's of barrels of toxic chemicals stored haphazardly on the property as well as the tons he had dumped to soak in to the ground.
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Old 07-25-2020, 12:23 PM   #27
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I had a friend who owned a chrome shop in Portland back in the 90s. EPA (or maybe state DEQ) were on site every day for inspections! Proper handling and disposal was an expensive part of the process
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Old 07-25-2020, 03:22 PM   #28
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I hate to be negative but, it seems that the cost of restoring old cars in the USA will soon be prohibitive for the average person.
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Old 07-25-2020, 04:50 PM   #29
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I hate to be negative but, it seems that the cost of restoring old cars in the USA will soon be prohibitive for the average person.

Ha.....! Better enjoy it while you can, 'cuz word has it that OLD CARS are on their way out! DD
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Old 07-25-2020, 05:13 PM   #30
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I hate to be negative but, it seems that the cost of restoring old cars in the USA will soon be prohibitive for the average person.
To truly restore an old car has been cost prohibitive for the average person for decades.
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Old 07-25-2020, 08:43 PM   #31
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Default Re: Drake 40 dlx headlamp rims (bezels)

These bezels are die cast and are not the best material to “bend into shape”. While I’m a drake dealer I do not typically stock these as I only stock items I’ve used. I’m gonna order in a set and try them on my 40 coupe and report back to them if a issue is present which seems to be the case.

As for those complaining about Chinese parts, believe me I get it; but go quote a simple part in the US and in China, and you’ll see...
I had 45,000 carriage bolts quoted just for the heck of it.... cheapest US quote was $1.18 each. Quote out of a Chinese plant through a broker was $0.16 each.while I chose neither option I just did it out of curiosity
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Old 07-25-2020, 10:48 PM   #32
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I could not ever understand, if the manufacturer has an OEM part in front of them ,why make it larger or smaller, change the thread to metric, etc. make the damned part the same as what is in front of them! Is it cheaper to make it bigger, smaller or wider?
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Old 07-26-2020, 09:45 AM   #33
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Is it easy to tell originals from repos?What should an original have as far as markings or part number on the back side?I guess it is better just to pay for rechroming some good originals than buy repo junk.
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Old 07-26-2020, 10:01 AM   #34
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Die casting or any casting processes for that matter takes a lot of care to figure for shrinkage. Patterns are still involved to make the molds but the shrinkage has to be calculated in correctly or the part will never be the correct dimension. This also requires some confirmation testing to see how well the part will come out. If it's wrong then it's back to the drawing board. The trial and error nature of these processes leaves a lot of room for errors and expenses. It's up to the folks that do these processes to get it right. If they settle for less then it shows how much they care about their products.
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Old 07-26-2020, 11:02 AM   #35
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I work in agricultural mfg. We make green, the amount of sub contracted parts is amazing anymore. Almost everything used to be made in house. You can really run into bad parts when the subcontractor subcontracts someone else to make the things for them. It's the almighty dollar and the guy's at the top are the ones that make the decisions to go with the cheapest bid. Then they let someone else deal with the oats that come out of the horse while they are off enjoying retirement.
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Old 07-26-2020, 11:25 AM   #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by deuce_roadster View Post
Since those are junk anyway you might try something I read about years ago. If the issue is that they seem too "narrow". Somebody wrote that you could lay a towel down on a surface like a work bench, put the bezel on it upside down, take another towel and using both hands push the edges down which would force the bezel edges to become wider. I bet those things can flex out 3/32 on each side, maybe a bit more due to spring back.
I am wondering if during the chrome step if the machine that polishes or buffs them puts too much pressure on the sides or perhaps they are shrinking after being molded. See if you can make them fit.
I had 5 NOS in the envelope deluxe bezels that were raw pot metal that I had all chromed with the rest of my stuff and 2 of them as warned by my buddy at the chrome place said pocked up big time and half dissolved. I did get enough for my wagon and 1 spare. You have nothing to lose by trying.

Several years ago when finishing my wagon I ran into this same problem with new Drake headlite rims. One would fit perfect on both fenders and the other one had the problem described above. I talked to Wes and he sent another pair which had one perfect one. Result is I have a perfect fitting pair and sent back the ones with the problem. I was told that the mold release process causes some to become mis-shapen. Better to try to work with your supplier and get your problem solved. Think about life without Bob Drake Reproductions and you will appreciate what they do for us..........40larry
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Old 07-26-2020, 12:32 PM   #37
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Several years ago when finishing my wagon I ran into this same problem with new Drake headlite rims. One would fit perfect on both fenders and the other one had the problem described above. I talked to Wes and he sent another pair which had one perfect one. Result is I have a perfect fitting pair and sent back the ones with the problem. I was told that the mold release process causes some to become mis-shapen. Better to try to work with your supplier and get your problem solved. Think about life without Bob Drake Reproductions and you will appreciate what they do for us..........40larry
40larry, Appreciate what Drake has done for us? Sure, on occasion.
What I don't appreciate is paying $175 for a pair of headlamp bezels that are crap and can't be utilized.
Here is a direct quote from Drake's website:
"A perfect fit every time! Better than original detail and fit with show quality chrome plating. Each pair includes stainless mounting screws."
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Old 07-26-2020, 12:40 PM   #38
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Default Re: Drake 40 dlx headlamp rims (bezels)

"Kube", as usual, hits the nail squarely on the head with his practical experience plus knowledge. Just think how it would be if you paid for an expensive set of dentures, endured hours of pain, and rec'd the dentures only to find they didn't fit.

You complain and your dentist says, "Well, we came close".
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Old 07-26-2020, 03:32 PM   #39
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Just think how it would be if you paid for an expensive set of dentures, endured hours of pain, and rec'd the dentures only to find they didn't fit.

You complain and your dentist says, "Well, we came close".

Now Jim.....You're starting to make TOO much sense! DD
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Old 07-29-2020, 08:35 AM   #40
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To truly restore an old car has been cost prohibitive for the average person for decades.
To quote my late father, "If it was easy everyone would do it."
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Old 07-29-2020, 10:52 AM   #41
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Kube, your'e not alone when Drake's people tell you "gee this never happened before". Several years ago I purchased a set of rubber stone guards for my '46 Station Wagon. They attach to the fender with four studs that are plug welded to the steel backer on the guards. Three of the studs were welded in the wrong place. At least they got one right. When I called Drake they told me the same thing, "nobody has ever complained before". I TIG welded them in the correct place and to add insult to injury, the one stud from Drake that I didn't fix, broke off when I tried to tighten it.
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Old 07-31-2020, 08:12 PM   #42
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Since this is on the subject of Drake parts.Does anyone know if the 40 bumper guards and the end wings that Drake sells will fit an original 40 bumper good?Can you tell the originals from the repos?
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Old 08-01-2020, 08:50 AM   #43
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Since this is on the subject of Drake parts.Does anyone know if the 40 bumper guards and the end wings that Drake sells will fit an original 40 bumper good?Can you tell the originals from the repos?
The bumper guards fit albeit poorly. The contour does not match the authentic bumper's contour.
The end guards fit. How do you tell a repop from an authentic tip? Two ways.
1) An authentic tip will have the manufactures logo stamped in the back. It is within a circle of approximately 5/16" diameter. The letters "DP" (Detroit Products) is within that circle.
2) An authentic tip has a lip that surrounds both the top and bottom of the bumper bar. The repops have only an upper "lip".
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Old 08-01-2020, 08:51 AM   #44
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Kube, your'e not alone when Drake's people tell you "gee this never happened before". Several years ago I purchased a set of rubber stone guards for my '46 Station Wagon. They attach to the fender with four studs that are plug welded to the steel backer on the guards. Three of the studs were welded in the wrong place. At least they got one right. When I called Drake they told me the same thing, "nobody has ever complained before". I TIG welded them in the correct place and to add insult to injury, the one stud from Drake that I didn't fix, broke off when I tried to tighten it.
I'd had the exact experience when installing a set on a '46 coupe.
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Old 08-01-2020, 08:09 PM   #45
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Kube ,can you tell if this is a repo or original?I tryed to clean back side but cut not find any markings?
IMG_1599.jpg

IMG_1598.jpg
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Old 08-01-2020, 11:38 PM   #46
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Looks original to me, it conforms to Kube's description of the lip that is above and below the bumper.
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Old 08-02-2020, 08:15 AM   #47
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That's an authentic tip.
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Old 08-02-2020, 09:21 AM   #48
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Thanks Kube and deuce.Now I want to see the price on rechroming four of them?My 40 is just a driver,probably don't want to go that far!
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Old 08-02-2020, 09:57 AM   #49
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It actually does cost more to hold tolerances tighter.
You've all heard of the military paying $600 for a hammer that you and I can buy at Lowes for $15.
I worked at North Island Naval Air Station where the $600 hammer, ash trays and toilet seats were manufactured. The cost had little to do with tolerances. 95% of the costs were for overhead. These items had to be designed, approved by engineering, tooling made, material ordered and a learning curve out in the production shops. For low quantities, cost would eat you up.

If you were to make one hammer in your shop, it would cost you allot more too. And in the long run, quality pays not costs. It costs just as much to make a defective part in a mass production scenario as a good one and the defective part gets scraped at major cost to the manufacturer. We learned that from Dr. Edwards Deming and Japan.
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Old 08-02-2020, 10:28 AM   #50
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I worked at North Island Naval Air Station where the $600 hammer, ash trays and toilet seats were manufactured. The cost had little to do with tolerances. 95% of the costs were for overhead. These items had to be designed, approved by engineering, tooling made, material ordered and a learning curve out in the production shops. For low quantities, cost would eat you up.
I have been directly involved in a lot of this. Lets take a hammer as an example. You see one in a store and it has a mass production price. Now the government decides to order say 100 hammers built to a specific requirement (may not really matter, but that is the way they operate).

First you get a request for the item. Then it has to be reviewed and negotiated. Engineering has to write up a specification. The specification has to be reviewed internally and with the government and approved. This specification is summited for bids. The bids are reviewed and then there is negotiations with the manufacture. Now engineering has to write up acceptance testing procedures. The next steep is the actual testing and acceptance. This results has to be documented and submitted to the government for approval. All the while the legal deportment and procurement departments have to be reviewing all of this. Then there is shipping cost. And the big one is YOU, the provider, are liable for any and all incidents that might occur when using the item.

Add all of that up and divide by one hundred. The fact is the items are being sold for way under the actual cost. So way do it at all? It was considered just part of the job, good will, whatever, to go along with much larger contracts.

When all of this started making headlines we just started refusing to provide any item that the government could purchase for another source. It was a big cost lost in the first place!

Some of the government requirements were very specific, such as a tool could not produce a spark. When CRT tubes were being used, we had to warranty any damage to an aircraft or personnel if it ever exploded. If you have never conducted business with the government, you have no idea how difficult it can be. I would not sell hammers to the government for 10x the $600! And that is what the company finally decided as well.
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Old 08-02-2020, 11:01 AM   #51
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[QUOTE=JSeery;1915809]I have been directly involved in a lot of this. Lets take a hammer as an example. You see one in a store and it has a mass production price. Now the government decides to order say 100 hammers built to a specific requirement (may not really matter, but that is the way they operate).

First you get a request for the item. Then it has to be reviewed and negotiated.

This was much worse than that. The hammer, the ash trays and toilet seats were actually made by the government, for the government (Navy) at North Island Naval Air Rework Facility. It's much more expensive when the government makes these things internally. There are even more steps and expense than buying it on contracts or open purchase. When the government can manufacture itself, it should only be done when the part can't be obtained in private industry. That often happens when rebuilding 30 year old aircraft but common sense dictates not for toilet seats, ash trays and hammers.
They make things, at great expense, all the time but only for items which can't be had any other way and are flight critical.
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Old 08-02-2020, 11:34 AM   #52
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Government contracting is very specific and has been for some time. If it could be simplified to a more practical extent, things wouldn't cost the tax payers as much but there is no incentive in the current system to be pragmatic or practical. This is a classic example of why the government should stay out of manufacturing and let the folks that build the product make the design to fit the needs. This was done during WWII and the system worked very well. Countries in the axis powers chose to ignore this practice and it contributed to their rapid demise.
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Old 08-05-2020, 10:53 AM   #53
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Ok,I took my stuff to a home town chrome shop today to get a price.He said he would do 4 bumper guards,4 bumper wings and two grill guards for $330.I left all the stuff with him,thought that wasn't to bad.I have had plating done there before and was pleased.He has done a lot of plating for Carpenters in the past and figured he knows what he is doing.Kube,I finally found a "DP" on grill guard support!
IMG_1612.jpg

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Old 08-05-2020, 11:18 AM   #54
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That sounds like a good price.
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Old 08-05-2020, 11:25 AM   #55
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Default Re: Drake 40 dlx headlamp rims (bezels)

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I have been directly involved in a lot of this. Lets take a hammer as an example. You see one in a store and it has a mass production price. Now the government decides to order say 100 hammers built to a specific requirement (may not really matter, but that is the way they operate).

First you get a request for the item. Then it has to be reviewed and negotiated. Engineering has to write up a specification. The specification has to be reviewed internally and with the government and approved. This specification is summited for bids. The bids are reviewed and then there is negotiations with the manufacture. Now engineering has to write up acceptance testing procedures. The next steep is the actual testing and acceptance. This results has to be documented and submitted to the government for approval. All the while the legal deportment and procurement departments have to be reviewing all of this. Then there is shipping cost. And the big one is YOU, the provider, are liable for any and all incidents that might occur when using the item.

Add all of that up and divide by one hundred. The fact is the items are being sold for way under the actual cost. So way do it at all? It was considered just part of the job, good will, whatever, to go along with much larger contracts.

When all of this started making headlines we just started refusing to provide any item that the government could purchase for another source. It was a big cost lost in the first place!

Some of the government requirements were very specific, such as a tool could not produce a spark. When CRT tubes were being used, we had to warranty any damage to an aircraft or personnel if it ever exploded. If you have never conducted business with the government, you have no idea how difficult it can be. I would not sell hammers to the government for 10x the $600! And that is what the company finally decided as well.
AND what's FUNNY Is the "standard" E6 working on the Aircraft Carrier boiler here at the 2nd largest Navel Seaport on the east coast calls me for Heat Treated B7 Studs and 2H Heavy Hex Nuts to fix a steam line. He gets here to my shop and he ask's "Is it B7 & 2H?" and I lift the end of the stud to show him the stamp "B7" and the Hex Nut stamped "2H" and that is ALL he is concerned with, doesn't care IF is Domestic or Import, Doesn't care what the tolerances are etc etc etc....ITs stamped what he wants, IT fixes the problem and the ship sails!!!!!! Been happening for "over" my 22 years here!!! AND a damn sight cheaper and faster than going through Govt central purchasing OR the above listed process!!!!

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Old 08-05-2020, 01:21 PM   #56
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Ok,I took my stuff to a home town chrome shop today to get a price.He said he would do 4 bumper guards,4 bumper wings and two grill guards for $330.I left all the stuff with him,thought that wasn't to bad.I have had plating done there before and was pleased.He has done a lot of plating for Carpenters in the past and figured he knows what he is doing.Kube,I finally found a "DP" on grill guard support!
Attachment 438086
That's a "giveaway" price.
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Old 08-05-2020, 01:28 PM   #57
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That's a "giveaway" price.
Agreed!!! Damn good. Kube unfortunately what you started this post with is NOT endemic to just V8 Ford stuff. My buddy is a Willys Jeepster guy and he has the issue with some of the repro stuff too!!! SAD
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Old 08-06-2020, 12:58 PM   #58
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Default Re: Drake 40 dlx headlamp rims (bezels)

Mike,
Installed I set of Vintique ones on my 40 last night and they fit my car perfect.
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