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Old 07-20-2020, 09:32 PM   #1
Penthode
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Default Persistent Leaky Fuel Shutoff Valve

Over the past 5 years I have replaced the fuel shutoff valve with a new replacement once and rebuilt the valve twice. It is starting to leak again as I am getting a very slow drip on the garage floor.

I notice that the valves are brass on brass. Clock experience always puts steel against brass to minimize wear. Was the ordinal Ford valve fully brass?

What is the solution to stop the persistent leak When the car is parked for more than a few days?
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Old 07-20-2020, 09:50 PM   #2
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Default Re: Persistent Leaky Fuel Shutoff Valve

Is your tank clean of any rust etc,?
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Old 07-20-2020, 10:18 PM   #3
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Default Re: Persistent Leaky Fuel Shutoff Valve

The original valves were brass on brass.
Unless you are concerned about originality, I wouldn't bother with one of those valves. My cars are drivers so I don't mind swapping over to a modern ball valve. NO leaks and hidden up there under the tank, no one sees it anyway.
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Old 07-20-2020, 11:37 PM   #4
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Default Re: Persistent Leaky Fuel Shutoff Valve

What Synchro sez. https://www.brattons.com/30-31gas-li...off-valve.html
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Old 07-21-2020, 12:52 AM   #5
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Default Re: Persistent Leaky Fuel Shutoff Valve

The trick is to add the fine screen filter in the top of the valve. it is grit and rust flakes that tends to score the surfaces promoting a leak.
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Old 07-21-2020, 09:38 AM   #6
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Default Re: Persistent Leaky Fuel Shutoff Valve

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The trick is to add the fine screen filter in the top of the valve. it is grit and rust flakes that tends to score the surfaces promoting a leak.
The car originally sat for many years unused and the tank was a mess. I flushed it out pretty thoroughly and it is now pretty clean. I also the carburetor float valve leaks over as period of time. So I do not dispute there are probably fine rust particles to blame.

As I use the car frequently it should get better over time. I shall clean and rebuild the valve again and consider a better alternative. I am not all that impressed by the Bretton offering.
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Old 07-21-2020, 10:20 AM   #7
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Default Re: Persistent Leaky Fuel Shutoff Valve

Most all the vintage and vintage style shut off valves that I have seen over the years are brass on brass.

I understand your point on that valve shown from Bratton's, the handle is a bit on the large side. You should be able to buy ball type local that has a much smaller handle if you wanted to make something up. The one shown would not prevent a drippy shut off valve at the tank, it goes inline from the original valve to the sediment bowl inside the car. If you have not done so, install pencil filter.
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Old 07-21-2020, 10:27 AM   #8
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Default Re: Persistent Leaky Fuel Shutoff Valve

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Originally Posted by Penthode View Post
I am not all that impressed by the Bretton offering.
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I understand your point on that valve shown from Bratton's, the handle is a bit on the large side. You should be able to buy ball type local that has a much smaller handle if you wanted to make something up.
I understand what you are saying. But if you angle the handle up it hardly can be seen. I have had one for years with NO problems.

I honestly can not see how Bratton's can warranty their stock type valve for 3 years. Mine didn't last 6 months before it started weeping.
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Old 07-21-2020, 10:38 AM   #9
Ernie Vitucci
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Default Re: Persistent Leaky Fuel Shutoff Valve

Good Morning...I also have used the Bratton's Ball Valve for a number of years and with it, you never touch your original valve again. It stays in the permanent open position. The Bratton's system goes from you stock valve to the fire wall...I installed a new stock valve and a Bratton's ball valve and all has been well...Ernie in Arizona
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Old 07-21-2020, 02:50 PM   #10
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Default Re: Persistent Leaky Fuel Shutoff Valve

I am puzzled about something here: are you guys thinking the cars when new had these same gas valve problems? I would find that hard to accept...what is different?
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Old 07-21-2020, 05:11 PM   #11
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Default Re: Persistent Leaky Fuel Shutoff Valve

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I am puzzled about something here: are you guys thinking the cars when new had these same gas valve problems? I would find that hard to accept...what is different?
They had gas tanks that were clean without rust flaking off the roof and sand blowing in with the dustbowl. Plus the valve cost a hard earned nickel!
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Old 07-22-2020, 06:03 PM   #12
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Default Re: Persistent Leaky Fuel Shutoff Valve

And the little extra perfume from dripping gas co-mingled with the smells from pre deodorant wash once a week smells that already filled the cars.
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Old 07-22-2020, 06:35 PM   #13
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Default Re: Persistent Leaky Fuel Shutoff Valve

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Originally Posted by Penthode View Post
The car originally sat for many years unused and the tank was a mess. I flushed it out pretty thoroughly and it is now pretty clean. I also the carburetor float valve leaks over as period of time. So I do not dispute there are probably fine rust particles to blame.

As I use the car frequently it should get better over time. I shall clean and rebuild the valve again and consider a better alternative. I am not all that impressed by the Bretton offering.
I sincerely doubt that, but maybe you are correct in that regard.




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Plus the valve cost a hard earned nickel!
Not sure where that trivia came from, but your 'cost guesstimate' multiplied by 10 is more accurate for the cost back then.

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Old 07-23-2020, 07:15 PM   #14
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Default Re: Persistent Leaky Fuel Shutoff Valve

I rebuilt my original valve so often I could do it blindfolded. After a few months it would get so stiff I needed pliers to turn it. Replaced it with a ball valve I can turn with one finger. I keep the old valve on the shelf to remind me why I have a non-original valve in the fuel line.
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Old 07-24-2020, 08:08 AM   #15
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Default Re: Persistent Leaky Fuel Shutoff Valve

I have one "A" with powder rust in it that gave me trouble for several years. I replaced the valve twice and pencil filter both times and still had fine rust go through and stop up my sediment bowl. i ran a magnet around in tank often and would find real fine rust on it every time. So I made a magnet with a hook in it and leave it in there for a year at a time. When I pull it out to clean it is always loaded with fine rust. Recently I was in Harbor Frieght and saw a pack of 4 magnets the right size with a hook already in them for $4. I almost bought them to have in case I buy another one with rust in the tank.
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Old 07-24-2020, 08:38 AM   #16
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Default Re: Persistent Leaky Fuel Shutoff Valve

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob/AZ View Post
I rebuilt my original valve so often I could do it blindfolded. After a few months it would get so stiff I needed pliers to turn it. Replaced it with a ball valve I can turn with one finger. I keep the old valve on the shelf to remind me why I have a non-original valve in the fuel line.

Passing on info I've seen. Others have recommended adding Marvel Mystery Oil to the gas to keep the an original design shutoff valve from getting stiff, and to run a pencil filter to keep rust/grit out of the valve.
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Old 07-24-2020, 12:30 PM   #17
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Default Re: Persistent Leaky Fuel Shutoff Valve

Good Morning all...If you have the fuel filter with the glass bowl on the firewall, then put a strong magnet into the bowl. It will catch the rust and you can easily see when it needs to be cleaned. For really dirty tanks, get a glass bowl filter for a 55 Thunderbird and put it on the gas line down by the carburetor and put a magnet in it as well. With two filters, you will have a happy and clean carburetor! This approach works for most cars...removing the tank and having it re-done is more than many people wish to tackle. Ernie in Arizona
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Old 07-24-2020, 09:04 PM   #18
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Default Re: Persistent Leaky Fuel Shutoff Valve

I went to Home Depot yesterday and bought a couple of 1/4" ball valves and associated fittings. Fortunately the pipe fitting threads to the taper to the tank and the flare to the carburetor haven't changed in the last 90 years.

I made two variants I wish to try out tomorrow morning. The one on the left (1) has the ball valve section vertical and the elbow is between the valve and the pipe to the carburetor. The one on the right (2) sets the ball valve unit horizontal with the elbow between the tank and the valve. Each has its own pros and cons:

(1) Pro:Valve handle remains in the same position as the original. Con: Found that extended handle when valve is closed will point left and will hit the tube under the speedometer carrying the Speedo cable and wiring. This can be cured by shortening the handle. Pro: It can be installed without shortening the fuel line pipe between the valve and firewall. Con: the pipe will be about 2" lower into the passenger side foot well.

(2) Pro: The valve will sit higher with the fuel line out of sight closer to the underside of the tank. Con: I have to shorten the pipe between valve and firewall. This will mean desoldering the brass flare from the pipe, cutting the pipe to length and the resoldering. Pro: when valve is open, handle is horizontal and out of the way.

I am inclined to go for number two as it will provide a neater installation.
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Last edited by Penthode; 07-24-2020 at 09:13 PM.
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Old 07-24-2020, 09:36 PM   #19
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Default Re: Persistent Leaky Fuel Shutoff Valve

I rebuilt my original valve 3 times and it still seeped. The carb had the original ball type float valve. I bought a new tank shut off valve from who I can’t recall. Still seeped. I put in a new Viton needle and seat float valve and no more leaks. That was 5 or 6 years ago. I haven’t driven my car for a couple months and the gas is ON right now in my garage with NO leakage! I just walked out to check before I wrote this reply and it’s dry as a bone! And the tank is 3/4 full. I don’t think the valve design is a for sure never seep design. Back then your garage floor was gravel. At least my grand fathers was. Boy I miss that oil gas dirt smell!!
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Old 07-24-2020, 09:43 PM   #20
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Default Re: Persistent Leaky Fuel Shutoff Valve

I still like my original type valve I had no fitment problems. I bought it at Ford N More and I don't know if they are still in business. She had one that was guaranteed not to leak and it hasn't in over at least ten - fifteen years, the mesh standpipe was recommended at that time and I used it. I have also been successful adding a very short pipe in the valve inlet to stay above a thin laver of sediment that might accumulate, usually from rust on the tank top. But use the mesh!

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Old 07-24-2020, 10:53 PM   #21
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Default Re: Persistent Leaky Fuel Shutoff Valve

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Originally Posted by marc silva View Post
I rebuilt my original valve 3 times and it still seeped. The carb had the original ball type float valve. I bought a new tank shut off valve from who I can’t recall. Still seeped. I put in a new Viton needle and seat float valve and no more leaks. That was 5 or 6 years ago. I haven’t driven my car for a couple months and the gas is ON right now in my garage with NO leakage! I just walked out to check before I wrote this reply and it’s dry as a bone! And the tank is 3/4 full. I don’t think the valve design is a for sure never seep design. Back then your garage floor was gravel. At least my grand fathers was. Boy I miss that oil gas dirt smell!!
I forgot about the Viton needle seal. Sounds like a great idea. I will try that as well.

I have been trying to stop the seepage ever since I got the car: have rebuilt the valve and carburetor. Carburetor runs fine except for the seepage. And the main shutoff after rebuild works well for a few months, then becomes stiff and seeps. I trust this ball valve with the nylon seals will fix it.
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Old 07-25-2020, 12:03 PM   #22
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Default Re: Persistent Leaky Fuel Shutoff Valve

There has been posts on here about using aircraft valve grease on the fuel valve to make it easier to turn and also stops it from leaking.

http://spenceraircraft.com/ez-turn-l...el-lube-5.html
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Old 07-25-2020, 01:01 PM   #23
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Default Re: Persistent Leaky Fuel Shutoff Valve

I ended up installing option one. I didn't have to shorten the fuel line between valve and firewall. And I positioned the valve with slightly shortened handle so it would not hit the metal channel under the speedometer cluster.

Here is the final installation.
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Last edited by Penthode; 07-25-2020 at 03:33 PM.
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Old 07-25-2020, 07:42 PM   #24
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Default Re: Persistent Leaky Fuel Shutoff Valve

My coupe sat since the early 60's. I got a packing from Macs replaced it and 3-1/2 years later no leaks. I've turned it off/on at least 200+ times.
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Old 07-26-2020, 08:47 PM   #25
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Default Re: Persistent Leaky Fuel Shutoff Valve

Looked at it this morning. Dry and no drips. Ball valve is easier to turn and moves as smooth as silk.

Celebrated with my wife on a 60 mile tour this afternoon. Temperature outside hit 90 degrees and cruising for many miles at 50 mph she did not overheat (previous problem fixed).

Life is bliss....
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Old 07-27-2020, 04:41 PM   #26
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Default Re: Persistent Leaky Fuel Shutoff Valve

Good for you. Fits right in with my signature.




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