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Old 07-12-2020, 04:10 PM   #1
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Default Off shore adjustable lifters

I know we have beat this to death on other threads but thought I would post couple pictures of how these off shore lifters fail .
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Old 07-12-2020, 05:06 PM   #2
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Default Re: Off shore adjustable lifters

Quote:
Originally Posted by Step-down View Post
I know we have beat this to death on other threads but thought I would post couple pictures of how these off shore lifters fail .
I think it's nice of you to remind folks the common issues with these. Some folks may not have seen previous threads to this regard.
I am fortunate to have access to a hardness (Rockwell) tester.
The recent set I'd tested (form Red's) found three of sixteen very soft (junk) . They would not have held up for very long whatsoever.
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Old 07-12-2020, 05:20 PM   #3
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Default Re: Off shore adjustable lifters

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kube View Post
I think it's nice of you to remind folks the common issues with these. Some folks may not have seen previous threads to this regard.
I am fortunate to have access to a hardness (Rockwell) tester.
The recent set I'd tested (form Red's) found three of sixteen very soft (junk) . They would not have held up for very long whatsoever.

What did Red's say?
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Old 07-12-2020, 05:55 PM   #4
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Default Re: Off shore adjustable lifters

Quote:
Originally Posted by Step-down View Post
I know we have beat this to death on other threads but thought I would post couple pictures of how these off shore lifters fail .
It's specifically for this reason we use/sell ONLY the original Johnson tappets, today they come from "Topline", the same mfr still as the old days!

I have trouble keeping these in stock all the time we sell so many.

I would just add a bit more info here while we're on the lifter subject. It's extremely important to use the proper break-in lube, we use ONLY "moly" lube here, on the lobes and the lifter faces. After the initial break-in it's also necessary to run some higher-end oil, not the kind you find in the typical Walmart type stores?

Thanks, Gary in N.Y.

P.S. Here's a few shots of the lifters and the lube. We just recently began supplying a small container of the lube with every 16 lifters!
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Old 07-12-2020, 05:56 PM   #5
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Default Re: Off shore adjustable lifters

I have to replace these lifters so the question is who’s .
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Old 07-12-2020, 06:26 PM   #6
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Default Re: Off shore adjustable lifters

Is there any damage to the cam lobes with the effected lifters?
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Old 07-12-2020, 06:46 PM   #7
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Default Re: Off shore adjustable lifters

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Originally Posted by Step-down View Post
I have to replace these lifters so the question is whoís .
Looks like you missed Gary's post by a minute.. as above ^^^^
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Old 07-12-2020, 07:10 PM   #8
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Default Re: Off shore adjustable lifters

Quote:
Originally Posted by GOSFAST View Post
It's specifically for this reason we use/sell ONLY the original Johnson tappets, today they come from "Topline", the same mfr still as the old days!

I have trouble keeping these in stock all the time we sell so many.

I would just add a bit more info here while we're on the lifter subject. It's extremely important to use the proper break-in lube, we use ONLY "moly" lube here, on the lobes and the lifter faces. After the initial break-in it's also necessary to run some higher-end oil, not the kind you find in the typical Walmart type stores?

Thanks, Gary in N.Y.

P.S. Here's a few shots of the lifters and the lube. We just recently began supplying a small container of the lube with every 16 lifters!
These (the ones that 3 of 16 were dead soft) were Johnson brand from red's.
Do you test the ones you use?
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Old 07-12-2020, 08:06 PM   #9
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Default Re: Off shore adjustable lifters

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kube View Post
These (the ones that 3 of 16 were dead soft) were Johnson brand from red's.
Do you test the ones you use?
Hi Kub', would have to contact Paul at "Topline" and ask if they happen to supply Reds with lifters?? I can state with certainty that both Comp Cams and Isky get their Flathead lifters from "Topline".

Haven't had one single "bad" lifter so far from "Topline" so no real reason to check them. First time I have an issue that would change things really quick!

Thanks, Gary in N.Y.

P.S. I did just check Reds website, really doesn't state original "Johnson" lifters, it does however say Johnson "style" lifters . We've been warning customers for years now about buying/using Johnson "style" lifters. The few I've had come in here (supplied by customers) were definitely "off-shore".
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Old 07-13-2020, 10:23 AM   #10
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Default Re: Off shore adjustable lifters

I used to buy my lifters from Collens & Lery in BP conn. One day I went into the shop and ordered a set. The counterman said"That will be 20 dollars" I said" at this rate they'll be 50 dollars before you know it". They had bee $12.50 set
I believe gary's lifters are the same as the originals, the only difference is the value of the money????????
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Old 07-13-2020, 10:36 AM   #11
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Default Re: Off shore adjustable lifters

GOSFAST: I still have the old box my original Johnson lifters came in in 1970. Two wrenches
were included. Next time you order lifters from "Topline" please inquire as to whether they were formerly "Wolverine". Just curious. Would be neat to know. Is "Topline" located at the old Wolverine address or city?
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Old 07-13-2020, 11:10 AM   #12
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Default Re: Off shore adjustable lifters

Why even fool with adjustables? Ford didn't use them, and original lifters rarely fail and weight a lot less.

For me I can grind valves for non adjustables much quicker than I can adjust those pesky adjustables.
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Old 07-13-2020, 11:38 AM   #13
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Default Re: Off shore adjustable lifters

No damage to cam (Max 1) check valve spring pressure seems good.
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Old 07-13-2020, 11:45 AM   #14
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Default Re: Off shore adjustable lifters

Quote:
Originally Posted by 19Fordy View Post
GOSFAST: I still have the old box my original Johnson lifters came in in 1970. Two wrenches
were included. Next time you order lifters from "Topline" please inquire as to whether they were formerly "Wolverine". Just curious. Would be neat to know. Is "Topline" located at the old Wolverine address or city?
Back in the '80's Wolverine owned what is now "Topline", we had a "WD" with them for years. The entire conglomerate was owned by "The Sherlin Corp", at one point Crane Cams owned it all also!

We became good friends with Harry Krummery, the engineer at the Blue-Racer division of Wolverine! It's all a really long story!

Thanks, Gary in N.Y.

P.S. I put a couple shots below here of the catalog showing the Flathead lifter number, VT-2032, even back then we were buying the lifters by the trays, 92 to a tray, and the original "Johnson" tappet catalog! Hope you can make it out! These lifters back in 1994 cost us $3.70/ea. I still have much inventory on the shelf from them including the aluminum cam gears, part #TG-2702.
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Old 07-13-2020, 01:48 PM   #15
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Default Re: Off shore adjustable lifters

Quote:
Originally Posted by Step-down View Post
I know we have beat this to death on other threads but thought I would post couple pictures of how these off shore lifters fail .




Are you sure those solid body lifters are off shore? Reason I ask the only off shore lifters I have seen are hollow copies of the Johnson lifter. The solid lifters I recall were US made. Anyone else know for sure if the solid lifters are offshore?
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Old 07-13-2020, 02:05 PM   #16
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Default Re: Off shore adjustable lifters

GOESFAST, Thanks so much for taking the time and effort to answer my question. I feel better now, knowing Topline is an excellent replacement.

I don't remember if the original "Johnsons" were flat or did they have a slight crown.
Are the Topline lifters flat or crowned? I do still have an old set of Johnsons lifters that are ground with a slight radius. Is that good, bad or desirable only with certain cams?

Thanks, Jim in FL
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Old 07-13-2020, 02:25 PM   #17
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Default Re: Off shore adjustable lifters

Ronnieroadster
Donít know either way whoís lifters they are . When I saw the lifter face and after checking spring tension I draw to a fast conclusion ďMy bad ď
I donít see any sign of any wear on the cam lobe .
This lifters is flat on top , I thought they should have a slight dome , doesnít that create The lifter to spin or is it the cam lobe grind that make the lifter spin .


Hell I donít know just a old Harley Guy having fun with these Flathead
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Old 07-13-2020, 02:49 PM   #18
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Default Re: Off shore adjustable lifters

Quote:
Originally Posted by 19Fordy View Post
GOESFAST, Thanks so much for taking the time and effort to answer my question. I feel better now, knowing Topline is an excellent replacement.

I don't remember if the original "Johnsons" were flat or did they have a slight crown.
Are the Topline lifters flat or crowned? I do still have an old set of Johnsons lifters that are ground with a slight radius. Is that good, bad or desirable only with certain cams?

Thanks, Jim in FL
They've always had the "crown" on the lifter face, it helps with two things, first, it helps to keep the lifters "spinning" for a constant oil supply and second, it helps keep the cam running into the unit. Sort of "threading" it into the block!

They also have the a radius on the adjusting nuts as well where they contact the valve stem. This is most likely done to keep the point-of-contact between the stems and the adjusting nuts to a minimum, makes it less important where "alignment" would be an issue??

Thanks, Gary in N.Y.

P.S. On side note almost all cam lobes are ground with a taper to correspond with the lifter radius! Again, this keeps everything "spinning" so to speak! The only lifters (I believe) without a radius were used on the old "Nailheads"?? One of the cam guys up here may know for sure? This photo from Isky's catalog may help understand what's occurring?
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Old 07-13-2020, 02:54 PM   #19
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Default Re: Off shore adjustable lifters

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Old 07-13-2020, 03:34 PM   #20
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Default Re: Off shore adjustable lifters

Quote:
Originally Posted by Step-down View Post
Ronnieroadster
Donít know either way whoís lifters they are . When I saw the lifter face and after checking spring tension I draw to a fast conclusion ďMy bad ď
I donít see any sign of any wear on the cam lobe .
This lifters is flat on top , I thought they should have a slight dome , doesnít that create The lifter to spin or is it the cam lobe grind that make the lifter spin .


Hell I donít know just a old Harley Guy having fun with these Flathead
Yes your correct the lifters do have a slight crown/radius to them. If you hold a set of new lifters face to face with light behind them you can see the radius. The good quality original lifters from Johnson even if used will have the radius. However considering the reduction and eventually the elimination of Zinc additives in most brands of engine oils since the 80's lifter wear like the set you have will happen. Extremely worn lifters will be flat when held face to face.
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Old 07-13-2020, 05:07 PM   #21
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Default Re: Off shore adjustable lifters

I have a brand new set of off shore made hollow lifters in the shop now for refacing. This customer does this routinely. They come TAPERED, NOT radiused. That means they are cone shaped. NOT spherical like a ball. He just does not trust the original surface finish.

And yes the early Isky lifters were spherical. He soon found that didn't work though. The later ones were tapered.
The spherical ones would trap no oil film because the contact area was too small. That also resulted in extremely high contact pressure.

Very early Ford lifters were flat. Later they ground them on a 96 inch radius which is close enough to tapered that they trapped a boundry layer of oil and worked ok.

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Old 07-13-2020, 05:45 PM   #22
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Default Re: Off shore adjustable lifters

This is a education and canít thank everyone enough for taking the time to post a worth of knowledge .

The old Harley all had fixed Solid roller lifter . I beat one of you Hot Rod Flathead builder must Run something like that .
Again Iím just an old retired Iron Worker from NYC having fun learning from a bunch of very knowledgeable guys

Thanks again
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Old 07-14-2020, 04:05 PM   #23
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Default Re: Off shore adjustable lifters

I have a new set of Bob Drake adjustable lifters and presume that they fall in to the 'off shore' category? I suppose I should trash these as not suitable for the job then? Your input welcomed as I have been accumulating parts for a 99A factory relieved block and a 4" Merc crank.
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Old 07-14-2020, 04:33 PM   #24
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Default Re: Off shore adjustable lifters

Quote:
Originally Posted by meric42 View Post
I have a new set of Bob Drake adjustable lifters and presume that they fall in to the 'off shore' category? I suppose I should trash these as not suitable for the job then? Your input welcomed as I have been accumulating parts for a 99A factory relieved block and a 4" Merc crank.
Perhaps you may be able to have a hardness test carried out to assist with your
decission.
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Old 07-14-2020, 05:14 PM   #25
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Default Re: Off shore adjustable lifters

We run roller followers in our dragster, they have done a few seasons and still look like new.
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Old 07-14-2020, 05:32 PM   #26
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Default Re: Off shore adjustable lifters

Merc42 test like Phil said .

Laurie roller lifters in a ford flathead nice ...
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Old 07-14-2020, 05:44 PM   #27
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Default Re: Off shore adjustable lifters

We also have them in a holden 202
They work well, no link bar or that type of stuff.
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Old 07-15-2020, 11:35 AM   #28
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Default Re: Off shore adjustable lifters

Again, what’s wrong with original non adjustable lifters??
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Old 07-15-2020, 11:45 AM   #29
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Default Re: Off shore adjustable lifters

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Originally Posted by Ronnieroadster View Post
Are you sure those solid body lifters are off shore? Reason I ask the only off shore lifters I have seen are hollow copies of the Johnson lifter. The solid lifters I recall were US made. Anyone else know for sure if the solid lifters are offshore?
Ronnieroadster
Sealed Power makes and sells the heavier solid adjustables, last set I bought said Made in USA and "each lifter hardness tested". They looked like quality parts.

On the OP's lifters, I have to wonder if they'd pass a hardness test, but are too soft under a thin layer of hardened metal at the surface? No telling what alloy the Chinese use.
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Old 07-15-2020, 11:46 AM   #30
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Default Re: Off shore adjustable lifters

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Originally Posted by Ross F-1 View Post
Sealed Power makes and sells the heavier solid adjustables, last set I bought said Made in USA and "each lifter hardness tested". They looked like quality parts.

On the OP's lifters, I have to wonder if they'd pass a hardness test, but are too soft under a thin layer of hardened metal at the surface? No telling what alloy the Chinese use.
We could try asking the American company who is having them built to their specifications.
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Old 07-15-2020, 11:47 AM   #31
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Default Re: Off shore adjustable lifters

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Again, whatís wrong with original non adjustable lifters??
I can think of one reason to have the adjustables, in the event of a "ticking" lifter (it can happen even with the "fixed" lifters) it becomes much easier to adjust the noise out??

Thanks, Gary in N.Y.

P.S. To fix a ticking valve with a non-adjustable lifter is a major repair, this is just my own take on it? I am aware of the "thousands" that were running around back when, but do I prefer the option!
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Old 07-15-2020, 11:49 AM   #32
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Default Re: Off shore adjustable lifters

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I can think of one reason to have the adjustables, in the event of a "ticking" lifter (it can happen even with the "fixed" lifters) it becomes much easier to adjust the noise out??

Thanks, Gary in N.Y.

P.S. To fix a ticking valve with a non-adjustable lifter is a major repair, this is just my own take on it? I am aware of the "thousands" that were running around back when, but do I prefer the option!

Understand.. But I would imagine is the valves are ground properly, there would never be a chance of a ticking lifter. For me they are easier with the right tools than adjustables.
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Old 07-15-2020, 11:50 AM   #33
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Default Re: Off shore adjustable lifters

I'm not an engine builder, but if you do get a "tick" with a non-adjustable lifter, wouldn't it be due to improper installation? And if it happens "down the road", wouldn't it be a sign of something going wrong in the valve train?
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Old 07-15-2020, 11:53 AM   #34
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Default Re: Off shore adjustable lifters

In looking at the lifters that you show - they appear to be "solid", not the hollow re-pop ones that we've all seen from China. So - they are not necessarily from China, they can be on-shore and they may have wear issues for a variety of reasons ---> hardness, break-in, the way the cam was ground, oil-used, etc..

Also, given that your cam was wearing into those lifters, the profile is probably not correct anymore (on the nose of each lobe), so you may experience the same problem the "next go round". Personally, I would not put new lifters on a cam that previously had that sort of wear pattern on the lifters you show. I'd have the cam checked out.

There is really no way to know what caused your specific issue.. Do you know who manufactured the lifters? Also, who manufactured the cam and were they both installed at the same time?
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Old 07-15-2020, 12:47 PM   #35
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Default Re: Off shore adjustable lifters

Curious if the OP could put a couple "close-up" shots of the "tops" of the lifters where the valve stems reside? I have some used adjustable lifters here that are "telling me a story" so to speak!

I see a potential issue with the non "Johnson" tappets that may be causing many of the failures we're seeing, not 100% sure, but I see a definite "design-flaw" in the off-shore pieces! It was actually mentioned to me a while back by my friend Paul over at "Topline"!

Thanks, Gary in N.Y.

P.S. I'll have more on this subject if the OP can get that shot or two of the tops!
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Old 07-15-2020, 01:32 PM   #36
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Default Re: Off shore adjustable lifters

I dont/Wont use adjustables but two local flathead engine builders buy all their parts from us at the shop. I have let them try different brands and the ones they liked the most and the ones we stock are Made in Turkey.... And believe me if you saw what the outside of their Building in turkey looked like, you'd spit your lunch out.

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Old 07-15-2020, 02:41 PM   #37
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Default Re: Off shore adjustable lifters

No history on the motor but I will take your advise and see if I can have someone check the Cam (max 1)
Cant put me finder on this build , someone spent a lot of money with all the machine work , soup to nuts but didnít clean out the coolant system .
Everything is brand new inside with only a dusting inside the motor. Iíve done some quick numbers and everything looks good.
The motor was overheating (Iím told) so I pressure tested both sides and held 20 lbs over night .

Now the Cam either the cam wasnít dialed in or itís dead nuts on . I will know soon after itís cleaned Iím going to mock it up .

I will post some more pictures tonight

Thank you everyone for taking the time to post
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Old 07-15-2020, 03:32 PM   #38
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Again, whatís wrong with original non adjustable lifters??
Nothing....Try turning 8100 with adjustables in a race engine.

Not too much wrong with adjustables for a mild street engine that willl never see 4000 rpm, EXCEPT for a couple of things these days. That is the quality of the holllow ones and weight of the solid ones.

Most people building flatheads these days are doing mild street engines and have been brainwashed by the media that you need adjustable lifters to go fast.
The biggest selling point for adjustables is, they can be installed by anyone in their back yard with no special tools other than a common nail. There are very few shops left that have the tools and the knowledge to install stock lifters any more. In fact, there are very few shops doing flathead Ford engines any more.

Just for the record, stock lifters can be adjusted in HALF the time it takes to do a set of adjustables and the "ticking" argument is like saying, the beer supply is going to run out. Sells lots of lifters though.
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Old 07-15-2020, 03:38 PM   #39
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Nothing....Try turning 8100 with adjustables in a race engine.

Not too much wrong with adjustables for a mild street engine that willl never see 4000 rpm, EXCEPT for a couple of things these days. That is the quality of the holllow ones and weight of the solid ones.

Most people building flatheads these days are doing mild street engines and have been brainwashed by the media that you need adjustable lifters to go fast.
The biggest selling point for adjustables is, they can be installed by anyone in their back yard with no special tools other than a common nail. There are very few shops left that have the tools and the knowledge to install stock lifters any more. In fact, there are very few shops doing flathead Ford engines any more.

Just for the record, stock lifters can be adjusted in HALF the time it takes to do a set of adjustables and the "ticking" argument is like saying, the beer supply is going to run out. Sells lots of lifters though.
Pete, Thanks.. All this talk about everyone using only adjustable lifters made me wonder

I agree that once I was schooled and acquired the old trick tools for the job, I can do a set of non adjustables in less than a hour, and I'm not building these things every day or week like you guys. Adjustables always take me longer and many cuss words are said when using them.... for me anyways...

After two bad experiences I'll NEVER use adjustables again, and not have to worry about them loosening up..
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Old 07-15-2020, 03:53 PM   #40
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Default Re: Off shore adjustable lifters

I think I read a while back on the H.A.M.B. that they do lifter restoration here maybe they offer a hardening process maybe call and ask https://www.deltacam.com/
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Old 07-15-2020, 04:16 PM   #41
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I think I read a while back on the H.A.M.B. that they do lifter restoration here maybe they offer a hardening process maybe call and ask https://www.deltacam.com/
I went to their website. It reads like it was done by a Chinese 3rd grader.
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Old 07-15-2020, 05:05 PM   #42
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Default Re: Off shore adjustable lifters

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Originally Posted by 35fordtn View Post
Pete, Thanks.. All this talk about everyone using only adjustable lifters made me wonder

I agree that once I was schooled and acquired the old trick tools for the job, I can do a set of non adjustables in less than a hour, and I'm not building these things every day or week like you guys. Adjustables always take me longer and many cuss words are said when using them.... for me anyways...

After two bad experiences I'll NEVER use adjustables again, and not have to worry about them loosening up..



Michael- I agree as well. I reground an original set of non adjustable lifters when I recently built my 8CM (We have a Sunnen tappet grinder at work). Really doesn't take much stock removal to make the lifters "new" again, and they are properly hardened plenty deep enough to do so. Like you say, not much time to adjust the valves correctly and they'll stay where you put 'em. The stock lifters are a quality piece!
By the way, the LZ springs you supplied were perfect for my needs...thanks.



Terry
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Old 07-15-2020, 05:43 PM   #43
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Default Re: Off shore adjustable lifters

See photos
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Old 07-16-2020, 07:55 AM   #44
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Default Re: Off shore adjustable lifters

Given the material that has worn or 'flaked' off the one lifter, there has to be some wear on the cam. You should really think about putting a new cam in it. Send a PM to PETE (on this thread) and send him a stock cam to have it reground. His work is second to none and he has a lot of different grinds to choose from. Your engine has a bunch of good parts in it - might as well make sure that the critical top-end portion of it is as good as it can be.

Many of us have learned, that one of the most important parts of a flathead build is --- the cam, the lifters and the valves . . . do it right now and you'll be happy for a long time.
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Old 07-16-2020, 08:48 AM   #45
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Default Re: Off shore adjustable lifters

“ The biggest selling point for adjustables is, they can be installed by anyone in their back yard with no special tools other than a common nail.”
This is the reason I would use them. I don’t own a valve grinding machine and for the couple of motors I have planned.... it wouldn’t be worth that expense.... Mark
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Old 07-16-2020, 09:15 AM   #46
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Default Re: Off shore adjustable lifters

Thanks to all who have responded with such excellent tech lifter info. Really a good learning experience as well as "who to go to" for grinding.
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Old 07-17-2020, 09:18 AM   #47
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Default Re: Off shore adjustable lifters

If you are inclined to change cams you will be happy you have adjustables.
In the 80s I had a Kawasaki motorcycle that had valve adjustment as part of the 6000 mile checkup. These were not hard to do as there were adjusters on the rocker arms and they were all close enough that I think it was just added dealer profit to the sale.
I also remember doing a valve adjustment on a Plymouth Turismo which had a Volkswagen engine as part of a mileage checkup. These had buckets over the lifters with shims. Measure the clearance and then measure the shims and add or subtract to see what the new shim should be. Ideally you should have a shim selection on hand.
I often wondered if something like this could be adapted to the flathead when I heard people complain about the thread being too loose on the adjustables. Probably be more expensive in the long run.
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Old 07-20-2020, 09:35 AM   #48
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Default Re: Off shore adjustable lifters

I am about to buy adjustable lifters for my build. This discussion has me worried. What number should I be looking for when performing a hardness test.
Thanks
Pete
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Old 07-20-2020, 09:47 AM   #49
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Default Re: Off shore adjustable lifters

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I am about to buy adjustable lifters for my build. This discussion has me worried. What number should I be looking for when performing a hardness test.
Thanks
Pete
Hi Pete, if you buy the ORIGINAL "Johnson" tappets you'll have no issues, under no circumstances would I buy any "Johnson-Style" ones!

We haven't had a single "bad" OEM "Johnson" lifter since we began using them back around 1980 or so, not one!

Thanks, Gary in N.Y.

P.S. Most up here have no real way to check "hardness", BUT, everyone can check the adjusting nuts for "flatness", the "Johnsons" have a radius on the nuts where they contact the valve tips. This isn't a "fluke", it's part of the design to make the lifters actually function correctly! If the nuts are flat on top avoid using them!
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Old 07-20-2020, 10:53 AM   #50
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Default Re: Off shore adjustable lifters

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I am about to buy adjustable lifters for my build. This discussion has me worried. What number should I be looking for when performing a hardness test.
Thanks
Pete
Why worry? Just buy a set of Johnson adjustable lifters from Topline as Gary suggests or buy them from Gary; "Gosfast" Then you are assured of getting the real thing.
Ken
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Old 07-21-2020, 01:17 AM   #51
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We could try asking the American company who is having them built to their specifications.
Exactly!
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Old 08-01-2020, 06:17 AM   #52
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Default Re: Off shore adjustable lifters

Closer look at the Cam in this motor (Max1 ). From the looks of this photo valve most have hit hard on valve pocket in the A head .
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File Type: jpeg 136E5955-550B-45DD-9AB6-96AF20F1E57D.jpeg (63.1 KB, 86 views)
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Old 08-01-2020, 12:05 PM   #53
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Default Re: Off shore adjustable lifters

Not sure what you mean by the "valve hit hard on the valve pocket"? Are you talking about the flattened wear on the nose of the cam lobe in the picture?

If so, this is just wear from the lifter/cam eating away at each other . . . has nothing to do with the valves.

As I noted earlier, you'll not be able to reuse this cam. If this was my engine, I'd find a good used stock cam, then send it to Pete (on this thread) and have him regrind it to a profile/grind that will work well in your engine. You might try a 1007B grind . . . depending on the rest of the package, the application and what you're looking for (sound, idle, low-end versus higher-end HP, etc).
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Old 08-01-2020, 06:22 PM   #54
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Default Re: Off shore adjustable lifters

I have installed a set of JAX adj. lifters (Vintage Valve Components) from Flathead Jacks made in California. The company quotes a rockwell reading of 55. After this discussion I checked the valve clearances and valve lift to determine if there was a problem. All was good. There is about 10,000 miles on them..
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Old 08-04-2020, 01:29 PM   #55
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Default Re: Off shore adjustable lifters

Flathead Jack is no more. And it sounds like Johnson's from Gosfast are not gonna be available for a while either: https://www.fordbarn.com/forum/showthread.php?t=284685
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Old 08-04-2020, 03:13 PM   #56
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Default Re: Off shore adjustable lifters

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Flathead Jack is no more. And it sounds like Johnson's from Gosfast are not gonna be available for a while either: https://www.fordbarn.com/forum/showthread.php?t=284685
Hi "Al, not exactly, BUT (and this is huge but) to purchase the 92 per/tray pkge deal the price is actually going to "double" due to the new pricing structure??

We've been comfortable selling these original "Johnson's" for about $220.00/16 we feel this is still a fair price in todays market!

With this "new" pricing structure it will cause them to cost $440.00/16 (out the door). At this level we refuse to handle them any longer?

Thanks, Gary in N.Y.

P.S. I have to add this here however, we are in the middle of negotiating with Paul at Topline, all is still up in the air. We already do have a "Plan-B" and we may initiate it soon , this will keep the cost close to where we were?? And they WILL still be the OEM Johnson's. I will stay on this and hopefully resolve it all soon?

Last edited by GOSFAST; 08-04-2020 at 07:09 PM. Reason: C
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Old 08-04-2020, 05:01 PM   #57
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Default Re: Off shore adjustable lifters

Sounds like the manufacturer might be wanting to get out of the vintage lifter business.

It can't be very lucrative compared to modern engine lifters.
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Old 08-04-2020, 05:57 PM   #58
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Default Re: Off shore adjustable lifters

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Hi "Al, not exactly, BUT (and this is huge but) to purchase the 92 per/tray pkge deal the price is actually going to "double" due to the new pricing structure??

We've been comfortable selling these original "Johnson's" for about $220.00/16 we feel this is still a fair price in todays market!

With this "new" pricing structure it will cause them to cost $440.00/16 (out the door). At this level we refuse to handle them any longer?

Thanks, Gary in N.Y.

P.S. I have to add this here however, we are in the middle of negotiating with Paul at Topline, all is still up in the air. We already do have a "Plan-B" and we may initiate it soon , this will keep the cost close to where we were?? And they WILL still be the OEM Johnson's. I will stay on this and hopefully resolve to all soon?
Gary, you should give me a call sometime. I'd like to send you a set of lifters ad get your opinion on them.
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Old 08-05-2020, 07:14 PM   #59
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Flathead Jack is no more. And it sounds like Johnson's from Gosfast are not gonna be available for a while either: https://www.fordbarn.com/forum/showthread.php?t=284685
This is Flathead Jack's new company. The JAX stuff looks to be top notch.
https://jaxvintagevalvecomponents.com

I am really interested in what Flathead Jack is saying.

Ronnie use titanium intake valves on my build to help with weight. Pete preaches reducing valve train weight as well.

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Old 08-05-2020, 08:19 PM   #60
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Default Re: Off shore adjustable lifters

With the pricing information "GOSFAST" is providing, it does not surprise me that "Flathead Jack" would not try to inject himself into the situation to take advantage of it.

I remember being impressed by my initial exposure to "Flathead Jack"'s product line. Then, I got a look at his pricing structure and moved on. I never bought a thing from him and left him and his operation to cater to the "Gold Chainers".
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Old 08-05-2020, 08:40 PM   #61
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With the pricing information "GOSFAST" is providing, it does not surprise me that "Flathead Jack" would not try to inject himself into the situation to take advantage of it.

I remember being impressed by my initial exposure to "Flathead Jack"'s product line. Then, I got a look at his pricing structure and moved on. I never bought a thing from him and left him and his operation to cater to the "Gold Chainers".

Not to take anything away from the quality of the parts but the biggest things I noticed about F J's new website were the spelling and grammatical errors.
Obviously done in China. That alone would turn me away.
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Old 08-05-2020, 08:55 PM   #62
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Not to take anything away from the quality of the parts but the biggest things I noticed about F J's new website were the spelling and grammatical errors.
Obviously done in China. That alone would turn me away.
Interesting observation. I didn't notice that, but as an elementary educator I read poorly written stuff all day long, so I just read it like it should read. LOL!

I think there is a thread on the HAMB about someone using his JAXs lifters. If I recall correctly, they were impressed with them. I will say this, FH Jack's stuff did cost more, but what he sold was usually good quality.

His JAX's lifters look a lot like the lifters Mike Davidson from Australia use to make. Does Red's still sell M. Davidson's products?
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Old 08-05-2020, 09:14 PM   #63
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Default Re: Off shore adjustable lifters

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Interesting observation. I didn't notice that, but as an elementary educator I read poorly written stuff all day long, so I just read it like it should read. LOL!

I think there is a thread on the HAMB about someone using his JAXs lifters. If I recall correctly, they were impressed with them. I will say this, FH Jack's stuff did cost more, but what he sold was usually good quality.

His JAX's lifters look a lot like the lifters Mike Davidson from Australia use to make. Does Red's still sell M. Davidson's products?
My first thought also was that they looked like Mike Davidson's.
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Old 08-14-2020, 08:35 PM   #64
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Back in the '80's Wolverine owned what is now "Topline", we had a "WD" with them for years. The entire conglomerate was owned by "The Sherlin Corp", at one point Crane Cams owned it all also!

We became good friends with Harry Krummery, the engineer at the Blue-Racer division of Wolverine! It's all a really long story!

Thanks, Gary in N.Y.

P.S. I put a couple shots below here of the catalog showing the Flathead lifter number, VT-2032, even back then we were buying the lifters by the trays, 92 to a tray, and the original "Johnson" tappet catalog! Hope you can make it out! These lifters back in 1994 cost us $3.70/ea. I still have much inventory on the shelf from them including the aluminum cam gears, part #TG-2702.

I 'm good friends with Harry and his family , Russ Bond started Wolverine Gear , just up the street from me in Osseo , MI. , our business cut push rods for W.G. for years , small world .
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