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Old 04-19-2020, 10:32 AM   #1
mrlaser
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Default 1951 Ford overdrive

I have a question re: the Borg Warner OD. I recently read this (paraphrased) post on another forum:

If your OD is not working electrically just mechanically, with the cable pushed in to activate the OD, the transmission will be freewheeling when you take your foot off of the accelerator. The engine will return to idle even if you are still moving at a normal highway speed . When you again depress the accelerator, the engine RPM's will "catch up" and again power the car. In other words, the OD may not actually go into OD with the planetary gears powering another gear, but simply allowing the transmission to freewheel.

Again, I am paraphrasing the original post, but if this is accurate, how would you test the system, assuming that all the correct electrical and mechanical connections have been made? In this case, all the components are new or NOS and the transmission was professionally rebuilt.

When driving, this seems to be the situation that I am experiencing. When the accelerator is firmly depressed there is no apparent return to the lower gear. On the other hand when cruising at 40-45 MPH with the accelerator depressed,the engine sounds like it is operating at a lower RPM than when the cable is not the OD ("on") operative position. I have never driven a car with this system and recognize my ignorance on this subject. Any advice would be appreciated. Thanks in advance.
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Old 04-19-2020, 11:00 AM   #2
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Default Re: 1951 Ford overdrive

It's an electrically operated system so it needs to have functional switches, relay, and solenoid for it all to work properly. When the cable is pulled out, the lockout rail effectively moves the sun gear out of mesh an blocks the operating solenoid pawl that does the shifting of the OD planetary. In other words it works pretty much like any manual 3-speed when locked out. When you shift the car into reverse whether the cable is pulled or not, there is a mechanical mechanism in the reverse shift that pushes the lock out rail so that is will always be locked out in reverse.

The firewall mounted relay is the control relay that turns the operating solenoid on & off. The free wheeling clutch has to be there for the overdrive to shift so it has to be fully functional when the unit is locked in with the cable pushed all the way in. The governor on the tail housing has a simple switch to turn the system on when it reaches on speed around 23 MPH.

Ford recommended using the OD as a semi automatic transmission when driving around town. You just leave the car in second gear and only use the clutch when you stop. Starting in second is possible when the car is not loaded too heavily. This way a person can drive away from the stop and let up on the throttle above 23 MPH and it will shift into overdrive. It's basically operating as a 2-speed transmission with a clutch. Whether this works or not depends on the speed limits where the car is operated and is not necessarily the best way to operate it if conditions don't match up well with those speeds.

There are a lot of tests that can be done on the system if something isn't functioning as it should. I would recommend getting the shop manual for the type car you have. there should be a full section of the overdrive system that includes the test procedures. Jumper leads and a test light is all that is required to perform most tests.

The operating solenoid only has two terminals on it but they both perform different functions. Grounding is provided by the drive train to battery ground connection. One terminal is an ignition coil kill circuit for the downshift function and the other is to function the operating solenoid to shift the transmission into and out of overdrive.

There are other threads on here that have wiring diagrams or you can find them on line. If the system is going into overdrive then the kick down switch under the throttle pedal has to be depressed all the way to get it to downshift out of OD. It will also drop out of overdrive when the speed of the vehicle drops below the ON Speed of the governor. It should be out of overdrive any time you come to a complete stop. When it shifts in, you will notice the drop in rpm. If you don't feel it going into overdrive planetary gear then it isn't working correctly. The kick down switch, governor switch, and relay all have to be working. Some of the older units also have a rail switch in line with the governor switch control that can give problems. Later models eliminated that switch as redundant. It can be bypassed if it's not working properly.

Last edited by rotorwrench; 04-19-2020 at 11:19 AM.
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Old 04-19-2020, 11:23 AM   #3
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Default Re: 1951 Ford overdrive

Simply put, if the transmission is "freewheeling" above 30 mph with the handle pushed in, it is not in overdrive.
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Old 04-19-2020, 12:55 PM   #4
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Default Re: 1951 Ford overdrive

The way I always check is to accelerate up to ~40 mph or so, and by this time will be in 3rd. Let up on the gas pedal, you should feel the car go into a higher gear (lower RPM, less acceleration response when you hit the gas) as long as the OD is not locked out. Then, if you kickdown by stomping on the pedal, you should feel the opposite when the car goes back to normal 3rd (lower gear: increased revs, increased acceleration response)
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Old 04-19-2020, 11:46 PM   #5
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Default Re: 1951 Ford overdrive

First I want to clarify the purpose of that handle labeled "overdrive". It does NOT "turn on" the overdrive when pushed in! It just allows the overdrive to operate as designed when pushed in (its normal position). All overdrive functions are electrically operated only. This cable is properly called the "lockout cable". Its main function is to provide more engine braking on a downhill grade. It essentially turns an overdrive trans into a standard three speed trans when pulled out, as mentioned in an earlier post. Any early '50's to mid '60's MOTORS or Chilton's etc. manual will have a wiring diagram and troubleshooting instructions.
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Old 04-19-2020, 11:53 PM   #6
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Default Re: 1951 Ford overdrive

The 3 on the tree manual with OD will free wheel by design. Put your e brake on when parked on a hill. Always ran mine on the 53 around town with the od off/out. Great transmission. Everything well, it cruises 70mph all day long with low rpms to the engine on the hwy, engaged.

RotorWrench post is very informative.


.

Last edited by Tinker; 04-20-2020 at 12:11 AM.
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Old 04-20-2020, 07:46 AM   #7
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Default Re: 1951 Ford overdrive

When you get past 30, let up on the accelerator and listen for a thunk, what it sounds like to me, that will be the OD shifting in. Sometimes it is easier for me to hear it in second. Someone wrote earlier about driving around in 2nd OD. While that is possible it is not recommended. OD cars came with a 4.11 ratio so being a little lower you could start off in 2nd and shift to third without the clutch, and then let up on the gas to shift to OD. Depress the gas to shift out of overdrive, let up to shift in again.
If it is just not shifting out then your switch may not be addjusted properly or the grounding circuit is not working. The points need to be shorted to remove power from the input shaft to let the solenoid drop out.
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Old 04-20-2020, 08:57 AM   #8
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Default Re: 1951 Ford overdrive

Thanks so much for all of your input. I suspect that there is an electrical or a component issue. I have the wiring diagram and the wiring harness is color coded the same as those described in the factory manual. Would anyone have a specific online reference for a proper trouble shooting procedure? Unfortunately my reference library is rather limited. Thanks again.
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Old 04-20-2020, 09:26 AM   #9
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Default Re: 1951 Ford overdrive

I answered my own question. This is a fantastic article with a complete troubleshooting guide.

https://fifthaveinternetgarage.blogs...verdrives.html
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Old 04-20-2020, 10:18 AM   #10
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Default Re: 1951 Ford overdrive

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Last edited by Black Fifty; 04-20-2020 at 10:21 AM. Reason: info already posted
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Old 04-23-2020, 07:47 AM   #11
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Default Re: 1951 Ford overdrive

After doing some of the testing outlined in the above mentioned article, it appears that the solenoid is not functioning. When battery voltage is applied to the #4 terminal and the a ground is applied to the case, the expected (hoped for ) "clunk " does not occur. My question is,until I have a working solenoid, is there any concern about driving with the OD cable pushed in and the transmission continuing to freewheel? The car is actually more pleasant to drive when the engine's RPM's are allowed to drop when not accelerating. The gearing with the OD rear end is such that the RPM at 45-50 make the engine sound like it needs that other gear included in the Borg Warner OD. On the other hand, I don't want to do any harm to the transmission by keeping the mechanical part of the OD setup in use if it is not advisable. Thank you for any advice that may be offered.
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Old 04-23-2020, 08:44 AM   #12
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Default Re: 1951 Ford overdrive

If the solenoid is non functional, a person still needs to make sure the firewall relay and the switches are working too even if the operating solenoid it bad. It's easy to remove the solenoid and do further inspection and testing on the bench. Most of the electrics were placed in a swampy area so they deteriorate faster due to that. Sometimes they just need a bit of TLC to restore function but a person won't know until they tinker with them a bit.
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Old 04-23-2020, 09:50 AM   #13
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Default Re: 1951 Ford overdrive

It won't hurt the transmission to drive with the handle pushed in. Keep both sections of the transmission filled with oil and park with the transmission in reverse, as it will roll forward in any other gear.
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Old 04-23-2020, 10:10 AM   #14
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Default Re: 1951 Ford overdrive

Mr Laser

A caution in testing the selonid. On the bench use the voltage from the vehicle battery or a heavy duty charger. 6 volt lantern batteries or 3/4 amp chargers don’t provide sufficient current to operate the selonid, causing false test results.

The selonid is usually not the cause of OD trouble.

Hope this helps,

Tom
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Old 04-23-2020, 11:46 AM   #15
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Default Re: 1951 Ford overdrive

Quote:
Originally Posted by mrlaser View Post
After doing some of the testing outlined in the above mentioned article, it appears that the solenoid is not functioning. When battery voltage is applied to the #4 terminal and the a ground is applied to the case, the expected (hoped for ) "clunk " does not occur. My question is,until I have a working solenoid, is there any concern about driving with the OD cable pushed in and the transmission continuing to freewheel? The car is actually more pleasant to drive when the engine's RPM's are allowed to drop when not accelerating. The gearing with the OD rear end is such that the RPM at 45-50 make the engine sound like it needs that other gear included in the Borg Warner OD. On the other hand, I don't want to do any harm to the transmission by keeping the mechanical part of the OD setup in use if it is not advisable. Thank you for any advice that may be offered.
You won't hurt the trans but your brakes will take a beating because you won't have any engine braking. Do a back-to-back test; first with lockout cable pulled out, then with it pushed in and see the difference.
Have you checked the glass fuse on the relay? They can look good through the glass but can be broken at the end behind the metal cap. Use an ohm meter or test light to check.
Check the solenoid with an ohm meter also. An open circuit will show infinity. Remember to check between the heavier wire and the case.
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Old 04-23-2020, 12:39 PM   #16
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Default Re: 1951 Ford overdrive

Thanks for all the suggestions.

I did check the fuse ( separately) and also found battery voltage before and after the fuse on the relay with the ignition in the "on" position. If I remove the solenoid for bench testing and it is not working, will I be able to reinstall it until I get a replacement? I watched a YouTube video showing the instillation of the solenoid which indicated that the plunger needed to be extended (using battery activation) when installing it. I would like to be able to continue driving a bit while waiting for a replacement. The speed limits here in my neighborhood vary from 25 mph to 45 mph and the braking system is new. I'm hoping that bit of driving won't be too hard on the brakes. Thank you all again.
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Old 05-14-2020, 03:27 PM   #17
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Default Re: 1951 Ford overdrive

I have the original R10 BW overdrive which was installed at the time of the factory build. As noted in the above posts, I have been unable to engage the overdrive in spite of now adding a new solenoid, new relay, new wiring harness , and new kick down switch. The governor is nos and was installed during a professional transmission rebuild. With the OD cable pushed in, the transmission freewheels normally. When 30 mph is reached and the gas pedal is momentarily released, no shift into OD takes place. In Randy Rundle's Overdrive Manual, the governor is tested by removing its cover, separating the points ,and grounding the cover. Unfortunately, on my car there is insufficient floor pan clearance to be able to remove the cover screws to accomplish this test. BTW, with the key on, both the relay and the solenoid click simultaneously when the TH terminal on the relay is grounded. I have ordered a proper sized wrench to remove the governor should that be necessary. I would appreciate any other suggestions for an alternative means of testing the governor without the necessity of removing it. Also, does anyone know what type of nylon (??) gear is attaches to the governor"s shaft? Thanks in advance for any suggestions.
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Old 05-14-2020, 05:54 PM   #18
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Default Re: 1951 Ford overdrive

The governor is the last permissive in the circuit. The kickdoen switch is the first and only on a 51. If you unplug the wire from the governor and ground it with the key on you should hear the relay and the solenoid click. If you do not then I would investigate the kickdown switch. Make sure you have the kickdown switch wired correctly. The upper most terminal should connect the governor to the relay.
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Old 05-14-2020, 06:57 PM   #19
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Default Re: 1951 Ford overdrive

Grounding the wire will check the wire but not the points in the governor switch. Unscrew the governor and pull it out so you can check the points on the bench. If they open and close and have continuity when closed then the governor switch is OK. The flyweights should be secure and move easily. The gear should be metal. The governor shaft is held in the gear by a spring ring. Gear lash may be visible from the speedo gear side. If it has the wrong gear then there would be a problem. These governors were used on a lot of different cars and some had different gears depending on the transmission they were set up for.
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Old 05-15-2020, 06:16 AM   #20
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Default Re: 1951 Ford overdrive

Thanks for the replies. I do now have a properly sized wrench and will remove the governor for testing. I also will recheck the kick down switch for proper wire placement.
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Old 05-15-2020, 06:49 AM   #21
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Default Re: 1951 Ford overdrive

Quote:
Originally Posted by rotorwrench View Post
Grounding the wire will check the wire but not the points in the governor switch. Unscrew the governor and pull it out so you can check the points on the bench. If they open and close and have continuity when closed then the governor switch is OK. The flyweights should be secure and move easily. The gear should be metal. The governor shaft is held in the gear by a spring ring. Gear lash may be visible from the speedo gear side. If it has the wrong gear then there would be a problem. These governors were used on a lot of different cars and some had different gears depending on the transmission they were set up for.
If the wiring is ok up to 3 inches of the switch I think we can determine it is the switch. I was tring to give hime some alternatives to virtually removing the transmission. To remove the governor you nedd to unbolt the cross member and all associated linkage as well the speedo cable. You may need to lower engine to get at the 4 bolts that hold ot to the bellhousing. You can the rotate the transmission so you can get at the governor.
Also i saw you ordered a special wrench, I've removed mine with a pipe wrench or even water pump pliers. You can spin the governor with a drill motor while held in a vise and watch the action of the centrifugal part of the switch. I had to clean up the poins on mine once. Even harder on a convertible with the X frame.
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Old 05-15-2020, 09:14 AM   #22
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Default Re: 1951 Ford overdrive

An old Ford adjustable wrench will generally work to loosen the governor. I know its a tight fit in there on Ford cars since there is no removable floor panel like the Mercs have but I would think that it still could be removed without all that trouble unless it's a convertible X-frame. The governor is aimed at an upward angle which should help with the cross member but I don't know about the floor. Ford car tunnels are a bit small. It might be easier to clean it off and try to get the screws out that hold the cap.

If it's that much trouble then a test light would make more sense. Attach a jumper lead to a convenient power terminal or the hot side of the battery and connect the test lamp to that jumper with the other side jumpered to the governor switch wire or terminal. Run the car up to on speed and the light should come on. It will go out at a slightly lesser speed when decelerating. That would confirm governor switch function anyway. Repairs might be another matter if required.
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Old 05-15-2020, 10:36 AM   #23
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Default Re: 1951 Ford overdrive

Thanks again. The car is a Victoria with a conventional, reinforced frame under the doors. This was a factory modification.
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Old 05-15-2020, 02:01 PM   #24
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Default Re: 1951 Ford overdrive

Well I have had a bit of luck on the floor pan issue. I was able to remove the governor with a 1 1/2" Martin open end wrench without any other changes. I assume that the floor pan "hump" was enlarged in 1951 because of the introduction of the Ford-O-Matic transmission. This provided the necessary clearance to be able to remove the governor. I will bench test the governor and provide more feedback. I thought that the floor pan information might be useful to someone in the future. Thanks for all your help.
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Old 05-15-2020, 02:36 PM   #25
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Default Re: 1951 Ford overdrive

I added an overdrive transmission to my 51 Deluxe, which originally had the standard three speed. I ran it for a long time with a toggle switch that simply provide 6V to the solenoid. Run the car up to speed in third gear, flip the switch, release the accelerator and you are in overdrive. Now I have the full control circuit which works well, though I find it slightly painful flooring the accelerator to disengage the OD at speed greater than the governor cutout. Good luck, the extra gear is fantastic
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Old 05-15-2020, 02:38 PM   #26
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Default Re: 1951 Ford overdrive

It makes sense about the floor pan. 1951 was the first year for the Ford-O-Matic but I think a lot more Mercury cars were sold with Merc-O-Matics than Ford cars with Ford-Os for that year. The Fords with 6-cylinders didn't get the Ford-O-Matic till 1952 when the 215 came out. Only the V8 was set up for it in 51. The bell housing with the air cooled torque converter is a big damn thing. It would have needed more room for that.

Last edited by rotorwrench; 05-15-2020 at 02:54 PM.
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Old 06-01-2020, 10:00 AM   #27
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Default Re: 1951 Ford overdrive

As a f/u to my previous posts and my current status I am posting this summary:

I am asking for advice on the continuing problem I am having with my Borg Warner r10 OD. The transmission was professionally rebuilt several years ago ( but not put in service at that time) . The rest of the car's frame off restoration has now been completed. When driven, the transmission functions normally when the OD cable is pulled out. When the cable is pushed in, the transmission free wheels as expected. When approximately 30 mph is reached and the accelerator lifted, the OD does not engage and freewheeling continues. The wiring harness is new and the solenoid,governor, and relay were all NOS at the time of the rebuild. I have since replaced the relay and solenoid with new ones from Vintage Auto Garage. I also replaced the original governor with another NOS part. I have Randy Rundle's book and have tried testing the system as he described. In spite of these changes, I still cannot get the OD to engage. As a test, I have installed a toggle switch wired directly from the battery to the switch and then to the #4 terminal on the solenoid to bypass the other electrical components and wiring. When tested in the garage there is a click at the solenoid. When the switch is turned to the "on" position at 30 mph while driving and the accelerator pedal is monetarily lifted, the result is the same, with continued freewheeling. A few other details: the car is 6 volt positive ground and otherwise stock. Unfortunately the original transmission (elderly) re builder has since passed away. Also, when installing the second solenoid , I did turn the unit clockwise, while powered "on" to extend the shaft, then rotated it counterclockwise when it was in place to align the bolt holes. When the power was cut to the solenoid, it was drawn flush with the case. I should also mention that the transmission was originally briefly filled with synthetic GL-4 fluid and subsequently changed to GL-1 mineral oil based lubricant. I am now wondering what other testing might be helpful and have concerns that the problem could be an internal mechanical one. The transmission otherwise functions nominally. Very frustrating. Any help would be greatly appreciated.
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Old 06-01-2020, 12:23 PM   #28
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Default Re: 1951 Ford overdrive

Sorry to hear that it's still not working. Assuming #4 is the correct terminal on the overdrive solenoid, using a toggle switch to that should directly energize at and engage the overdrive when you lift off the accelerator. You've bypassed all the additional complexity which is good. When you push the overdrive lockout cable in does the arm on the overdrive shifts all the way back toward the tail shaft (is it properly adjusted to allow full movement of the OD lockout arm?). It seems like it might be something internal unfortunately... Ken
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Old 06-01-2020, 01:02 PM   #29
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Default Re: 1951 Ford overdrive

Ken,

Actually , I have removed the floor cover and can see the arm. It is is fully switched to the rear and I can hear a slight "click" when it is put in that position. Thank you for the suggestion.
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Old 06-01-2020, 01:51 PM   #30
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Default Re: 1951 Ford overdrive

You might give Mac Vanpelt in OH a call. He rebuilds these transmissions and may have some mechanical checks you can do with the unit still in the car. Ken


http://www.vanpeltsales.com/FH_web/f..._contactpg.htm
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Old 06-01-2020, 01:55 PM   #31
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Default Re: 1951 Ford overdrive

While rereading the overdrive booklet I wondered whether the situation described in the attachments might be the problem and the solution. I'll give it a try and provide f/u.
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Old 06-01-2020, 02:01 PM   #32
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Thanks for your suggestion Ken. Before moving from Ohio to Savannah I lived near Mac Van pelt's operation. If I don't resolve the problem with the above steps I will give him a call.
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Old 06-01-2020, 02:33 PM   #33
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Interesting, I hope that fix works for you. If not, I can tell you first hand that it is possible to ship a transmission to him via UPS in a wood crate. Mine weighed 135#... Good luck!
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Old 06-01-2020, 05:54 PM   #34
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Default Re: 1951 Ford overdrive

The balk ring will generally be set up in the correct position when putting the transmission together so it will stay in position unless someone turns the output shaft while the solenoid is removed (not uncommon). Folks love to turn transmissions to see if they will go into all the gears. There is enough room in there for it to rotate past the two ears that keep it in the function zone. Those instructions will allow it to be rotated back into the zone in alignment with the operating pawl. If the balk ring doesn't have enough tension between it and the gear plate, it may just stay in the down position due to its own weight. This would make it difficult to get it to rotate up to align with the pawl bore.

Hopefully, yours has enough tension to allow it to rotate with the turning of the shaft. I haven't found too many that are sloppy loose. Most hold their tension pretty well. If it's loose it will make noise when the transmission shifts into overdrive. Your book should mention that in the troubleshooting instructions.
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Old 06-02-2020, 07:40 AM   #35
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My fingers are crossed. Thanks everyone. BTW, any comments regarding the synthetic Gl-4 lubricant originally installed in the transmission?
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Old 06-02-2020, 08:16 AM   #36
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Many will tell you not to use the synthetic lubricant for a lot of reasons. I've been running it for 45,000 miles all over the country. That's the only one I have to tell you it's ok but some will argue with that.
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Old 06-05-2020, 09:44 AM   #37
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Default Re: 1951 Ford overdrive

This is a f/u to my ongoing struggle with the Borg Warner OD. As suggested in the citation pictured in one of my previous posts from the BW manual, the following steps were taken because overdrive would not engage:

With the OD t-handle pulled fully out, I rotated the driveshaft forward 360 degrees. I then loosened the cap screws holding the solenoid and withdrew it as far as possible. I held the solenoid in this position with a spacer and then rotated the driveshaft forward another 1/8 of a turn. I then re tightened the cap screws. When I later road tested the car, I was disappointed that the OD still would not engage. Obviously, I am concerned that when the unit was rebuilt something may not have been done correctly. On the other hand, as I mentioned previously the transmission and OD unit were initially filled with SYNTHETIC Gl-4 lubricant. This was switched, after about 70 miles, to Gl-1 after reading the following statement:

" And most important of all DO NOT use synthetic gear oil. It is too slippery and the sun gear will not engage. You will have to disassemble the transmission and get all of the synthetic residue off of the internal parts. That is not a fun task!"

I am wondering whether this may be a possible cause of the OD not engaging. While Synthetic Gl-4 may not cause yellow metal corrosion in the main transmission, it may lead to the OD malfunction.

Any thoughts or personal experience would be greatly appreciated.
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Old 06-05-2020, 10:48 AM   #38
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Default Re: 1951 Ford overdrive

I sent you a PM earlier in the week. In it I suggested that you get in touch with a member of the Early Ford V8 club in your area. The club members are willing to help and have lots of knowledge and experience. I was willing to provide some contacts.

There are members close to you that perhaps can help or steer you to someone that can. Sometimes having another set of “eyes” on a problem is all it takes.

I never got a reply to my message.

Tom
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Old 06-05-2020, 12:02 PM   #39
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Default Re: 1951 Ford overdrive

Tom,
Sorry for the lack of a response. I am 4 hrs away from the nearest v8 club. I have actually already spoken with some of the members re this and other questions. All were willing, but didn't have any answers to this specific problem. I do plan to contact Mac Vanpelt if I can't resolve this issue. I do appreciate your help.
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Old 06-05-2020, 02:10 PM   #40
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Default Re: 1951 Ford overdrive

The sun gear does not care about oil as much as the one way clutch, at least according to what you saw on fifth ave. At least that is how I read it. If the one way clutch does not work you will not be going forward with the handle pushed in.
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Old 06-05-2020, 05:38 PM   #41
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Default Re: 1951 Ford overdrive

What I am concerned about whether the balk ring is not in proper position because of the synthetic Gl-4 and as a result, the remediating steps outlined in the BW overdrive manual are unable to move it into proper position due to excessive "slipperiness" (for lack of a more informed term.) The pictures were borrowed from Mac VanPelts excellent article on rebuilding an overdrive transmission. I am a complete novice on this subject and may not have a proper understanding of the function of these parts. It is my suspicion however, that the balk ring is somewhat out of position ( or perhaps incorrectly installed and as a result is preventing the pawl from completely engaging in the slot on the balk gear. As I have previously mentioned, the transmission functions normally with the OD handle pulled completely to the rear and is in freewheeling with the OD handle pushed in. Are there any steps that might clarify the situation that I can take before removing the transmission? Thanks again for any suggestions.Merc-ODtrans-Part10-4.jpg

Merc-ODtrans-Part10-5.jpg
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Old 06-05-2020, 05:50 PM   #42
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Default Re: 1951 Ford overdrive

Just keep this in mind : You will love it when you finally get it to work.

I am watching this closely, as this is my task (installing an overdrive) for this summer.
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Old 06-06-2020, 08:10 AM   #43
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Default Re: 1951 Ford overdrive

I am wondering where those photos came from? Oh I see now (Mac VP). I never take the balk ring off of the gear plate. It loosens the fit and it doesn't have enough tension between the two parts. The tension is what allows the balk ring to rotate with the gear. If it's loose on there it will just stay pointing down due to its own weight.

The tension is set up at manufacture of these two parts. Once it's set, they should not be taken apart. I use a spring scale to check the tension before I can call the assembly serviceable.

The type of oil shouldn't have an effect. I use Aeroshell 100 mineral oil in my Mercury transmissions. This is an SAE 50 grade 100 aircraft mineral base motor oil. SAE 50 is the same viscosity as SAE 90 gear lube since they are graded differently.

Last edited by rotorwrench; 06-06-2020 at 08:18 AM.
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Old 06-06-2020, 12:14 PM   #44
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Default Re: 1951 Ford overdrive

To be honest ,I don't know whether the balk ring was removed from the balk gear during the restoration of the transmission. As I mentioned previously, the re builder has passed away. I do know that he was a very competent,long time re builder of early Fords. It has been my (uninformed) suspicion that the bulk ring is out of proper position, thus not allowing full travel of the solenoid plunger and complete engagement of the pawl in the balk gear. I thought that it might have been due to the initial use of the synthetic Gl-4 lubricant or to improper balk ring installation. After reading the tech post on The Fifth Avenue Garage Website, I was concerned that the excessive "slipperiness" of the synthetic lubricant might have prevented the balk ring returning to its proper position when the remedy suggested in the Borg Warner overdrive manual was tried. I see now that the ring itself may not have sufficient friction to allow it to be rotated in to its correct position. It has been my concern all along that the plunger on the solenoid was not fully extending. This being caused by the pawl striking the balk ring in an incorrect spot and preventing the pawl from properly engaging in the balk gear. I noticed that the "click" or "clunk" was much less intense with the installed solenoid than when it was tested on the bench. There was another suggested test in the manual which involved removing the solenoid cover and measuring the plunger for normal extension. I have not done that because I don't know how the internal wires are connected to the cover. I think that this procedure would answer the current issue. If anyone has removed one of these covers, I would appreciate some insight. Thanks Rotorwrench and everyone else for the suggestions and advice advice.
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Old 06-06-2020, 03:34 PM   #45
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Default Re: 1951 Ford overdrive

You may be right about an engagement problem and the possible balk ring problem. I've never used the synthetic lube in a manual automotive transmission. It tends to be pricey too but I don't worry about that much. All the synthetics I use in the helicopters are low viscosity. Low viscosity lube may not be appropriate for these designs due to the need to slow the cluster down for 1st gear downshift. If they increase the viscosity then they are adding something in to do that. We use ester base synthetics for the turbine engines and for the transmissions on the helicopters. For years we just used the same lubricant but about 15 to 20 years ago they changed that. The gear lube synthesics had more EP additives than the engine oil so it added life to the overhaul period. For the old cars, trucks and tractors, I prefer the mineral based lubricants. An overdrive doesn't need a lot of viscosity so SAE 90 is fine for most uses. An SAE 85W/90 GL4 would be a decent all weather lube for them. The Stay-Lube is likely the easiest one to get. I've been using the aircraft engine oil in my old Fords and motorcycles for a long time with no problems. HD always recommended using the SAE 50 engine oil in the engine and the transmission for many years but the newer ones are all using synthetics now.

If you want to remove the cap from one of the solenoids, it's shouldn't be difficult at all. The ones with blue & orange wires protruding from the cap are self explanatory. The ones with screw terminals are also not too bad. The screws actually screw into threaded terminals under the cap. They just have an insulated carry through grommet for each screw. Just pull the nuts & washers for the cap and terminal screws then tap the cap with a wood block or equivalent and the cap should pull right off. The #4 terminal is the power up terminal. The case is ground.

Last edited by rotorwrench; 06-06-2020 at 03:39 PM.
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Old 06-07-2020, 07:03 AM   #46
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Default Re: 1951 Ford overdrive

I assume you are installing the solenoid correctly, making sure the plunger is fully engaged with the pawl. If the solenoid comes out without twisting it you've done it wrong.
Now to figure out if the transmission needs to come apart. Can you move the pawl by sticking a small rod inside the hole where the solenoid goes? It should move a half inch or so and you should feel engagement.
There was a thread some months back where the reverse lockout rod was bent. This rod moves when shifting into reverse and keeps the pawl out of overdrive. When shifted out of reverse a flat spot on the rod lets the pawl move.
You appear to have done everything electrical and I think you may end up pulling this apart. The upside is you'll be an expert on how your overdrive workss.
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Old 06-07-2020, 07:12 AM   #47
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Default Re: 1951 Ford overdrive

Frank, I did follow the instructions for the solenoid installation. It is not possible to remove the solenoid without rotating it to align the flat area first. I did wonder about a way of measuring the excursion of the pawl. Thank you for the suggestion.
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Old 06-07-2020, 10:17 AM   #48
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Default Re: 1951 Ford overdrive

When the balk ring is in proper position, the pawl just comes in contact with the step on the balk ring. It will only go all the way in if the car is coasting. When the cart coasts after letting off the throttle, the planetary sun gear rotates backwards. This is what aligns the balk ring slot with the pawl and allows the pawl to go all the way into a notch on the gear plate.

When working on the transmission from underneath the car, it's not easy to replicate the normal function of the unit. Pulling the transmission is a PITA but it's about the only way to get the transmission on a bench to work on them. A person just needs some good snap ring pliers to aid in disassembly. I used my 1949 through 1951 Lincoln Mercury Overhaul Manual for instructions. The Mercury used an R10 type overdrive with a transmission unit that was similar to the earlier Ford side shift units and the Lincoln used the T85 with the R11 overdrive so both of these are covered by that manual. The Ford unit has no half bell like the Mercury but it is still the same in operation as all Borg Warner electric overdrives.
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Old 06-08-2020, 11:21 AM   #49
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Default Re: 1951 Ford overdrive

Once again, thank you Rotorwrench for your insights. The Ford "Green Bible" manual does not cover the overdrive or its disassembly. I have ordered the Lincoln mercury manual that you sited. I assume that the Mercury had an open drive shaft by that point. For others who might be interested, there is a well done YouTube video on GearBox Videos showing the disassembly of a R-10 OD unit connected to a Nash Healey transmission. Although the R-10 is the same as in other applications this particular car had a closed driveshaft making some of the rear portion of the disassembly a bit different.

As far as allowing time for the pawl to fully engage, when driving at 25-30 mph I turn on the (temporarily installed to bypass any other electrical issues) toggle switch, then after releasing the accelerator completely for 5-10 sec the OD still does not engage. This is in spite of hearing a slight click from the solenoid. From this I am assuming that the pawl is not fully seating in the balk gear. I realize that the transmission will need to be removed, but since it otherwise functions normally I am hoping that I will only need to address the OD itself. Thanks again.
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Old 06-08-2020, 05:39 PM   #50
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Default Re: 1951 Ford overdrive

Lincoln is the only one that had the Borg Warner OD with a torque tube since they started using in around 1940 or so. These transmission are very long and have a real big awkward rear mount set up. All the FoMoCo cars for 1949 & up were open drive. Ford cars prior to 1949 (banjo rear)had the Columbia rear axle as an option.

You shouldn't have to worry about gear section other than making sure the reverse lock out mechanism is good & functional. Just pull the tail end parts off and inspect everything with emphasis on the shift rail, sun gear movement, and of course the balk ring & gear plate with pawl. Some have a pin that fits in the housing to lock the pawl when the shift rail is in lock out. That pin also has to function properly. It depends on the design of the lock out mechanism as to whether it has the pin or not.

Last edited by rotorwrench; 06-08-2020 at 05:55 PM.
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Old 06-09-2020, 10:52 AM   #51
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Default Re: 1951 Ford overdrive

Thank you for your help. I am anxiously awaiting the shop manual before diving in to this next project.
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Old 06-10-2020, 06:43 AM   #52
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Default Re: 1951 Ford overdrive

The Ford Green bible, which I assume is the 49-51 repair manual certainly does cover it. I used it to rebuild mine.
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Old 06-10-2020, 09:36 AM   #53
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Default Re: 1951 Ford overdrive

The Ford Chassis Parts Catalog from 1928 thru 1948 is the one I've always found referred to as the green bible but there are likely a shop manual with a similar color. Any one of them for the early to mid 50s should have the info. In 1951, the gears changed over to the diamond cut pattern but the OD was the same basic unit. The Mercury changed somewhere around February of 1951 to the same basic unit as used by Ford except it had a different bell housing & clutch. The ones used in 1952 & 53 were essentially the same for both Ford and Mercury.
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Old 06-11-2020, 06:34 AM   #54
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Default Re: 1951 Ford overdrive

I may be in error as to what is referred to as the "Green Bible" but the manual that I have in fact does not have a section on the overdrive. There may be other editions. I had to edit the pictures for size.
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Old 06-11-2020, 10:06 AM   #55
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Default Re: 1951 Ford overdrive

I had a similar situation with the overdrive in my 55. After a week of testing all the electrical parts of the overdrive system and finding that all were good I thought I would try a suggestion put forth from the B/W instruction manual.
in my case I felt that the solenoid plunger would not engage fully in the sun gear blocker ring/gear.
The instructions are fairly long for me to type out. So I will try to post here. hopefully it will work.
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Old 06-11-2020, 10:26 AM   #56
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Default Re: 1951 Ford overdrive

Attachment 433022
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Old 06-11-2020, 10:28 AM   #57
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Old 06-11-2020, 10:28 AM   #58
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post 57 is the first part then go to post 58
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Old 06-11-2020, 11:33 AM   #59
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Default Re: 1951 Ford overdrive

As I mentioned in a previous post ( 6/1/20) I did in fact follow those steps, but unfortunately it didn't rectify the problem. I am reluctantly beginning to realize that the transmission will need to be removed. I suspect that either the synthetic lubrication has caused the balk ring to slip out of position by causing a reduction of the necessary friction with the balk gear or that the ring and/or the pawl are incorrectly oriented. Thanks again for your help.
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Old 06-11-2020, 05:32 PM   #60
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Default Re: 1951 Ford overdrive

It wasn't uncommon for FoMoCo to print separate manuals for stuff like the Borg Warner overdrive and the Ford-O-Matic. These were used to supplement shop manuals. I have the 1951 thru 1953 Merc-O-Matic supplement but not an overdrive supplement. Some supplements are available in reprint but I prefer the originals for the photo quality.
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Old 06-11-2020, 07:15 PM   #61
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Default Re: 1951 Ford overdrive

It’s in the Accessories section of my green bible
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Old 06-12-2020, 07:20 AM   #62
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Default Re: 1951 Ford overdrive

I'm a bit embarrassed to admit that I did not notice the coverage of the OD in the accessories portion of the shop manual that I have. I mistakenly assumed that it would be covered in the section for the transmission. Thank you for eliminating that oversight.
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Old 06-12-2020, 07:51 PM   #63
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Default Re: 1951 Ford overdrive

It’s definitely an odd place for them to put it! Glad it’s there in your green bible too
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Old 06-19-2020, 01:55 PM   #64
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Default Re: 1951 Ford overdrive

Mr Laser

Anything new with the OD, lots of people interested.

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Old 06-20-2020, 06:01 AM   #65
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Default Re: 1951 Ford overdrive

Nothing new at present. I am in the process of removing the transmission. Because of other commitments, it will take a while. I did communicate with Randy Rundle who feels that the synthetic lubricant that was briefly used is likely the cause of the problem due to the reduction in the friction that is necessary for the sun gear to engage the overdrive function. He advises that the entire transmission and OD will need to be dissembled and thoroughly cleaned to remove the effects of the synthetic material. I will update this thread as I learn more. Thanks for your continuing interest.
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Old 06-20-2020, 06:45 AM   #66
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Default Re: 1951 Ford overdrive

I cannot deny someone else's experience but mine has run 45,000 with synthetic.
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Old 06-20-2020, 09:29 AM   #67
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I would say Maybe but I'm a bit skeptical whether the type of lube was a factor. Mrlazer, keep us posted whenever you get a chance after more info becomes available.
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Old 06-20-2020, 04:04 PM   #68
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I definitely will provide any additional information as I have it. Removing the transmission will take some time as I only have jack stands, a short transmission jack and one old carcass to do the job . Thanks everyone for your combined input.
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Old 06-20-2020, 06:42 PM   #69
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Default Re: 1951 Ford overdrive

In my late teens I had a '50 w/overdrive. The big thing in our little town was "barking" the tires when we hit 2nd gear. Those transmissions can't take much of that. They were $25 in the local salvage yard. We didn't have jacks or jack stands. I pulled the car over a low spot in the yard, removed the busted transmission, pushed the replacement under the car, slid under and rolled the transmission up on my chest. From there I could stab it. But that was then.
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Old 06-21-2020, 06:04 AM   #70
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Yes. That was then. In 1957 I had a 1951 Ford Victoria in which I put a 1956 Buick nail valve engine adapted to the original 3 speed transmission. I ruined several 1st and reverse gears. At that time I had a deal with the local "junk yard" to buy replacement transmissions for $10 each if I took them out myself. I also did the "on my chest thing" with the car sitting on concrete blocks. ( It's amazing we made it into adulthood) Again, that was then.
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Old 06-21-2020, 11:14 AM   #71
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Have 51 Nerc rear axle with 3.3 gears for sale MP me for details
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Old 06-21-2020, 05:12 PM   #72
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mrlaser View Post
Yes. That was then. In 1957 I had a 1951 Ford Victoria in which I put a 1956 Buick nail valve engine adapted to the original 3 speed transmission. I ruined several 1st and reverse gears. At that time I had a deal with the local "junk yard" to buy replacement transmissions for $10 each if I took them out myself. I also did the "on my chest thing" with the car sitting on concrete blocks. ( It's amazing we made it into adulthood) Again, that was then.
I did the "chest thing" when replacing the transmissions on the '51 and '52 Fords I had in high school and college. After I got married, I had a '59 Ford pickup with a "three on the tree" that needed a clutch. I tried my usual tricks on it and almost killed myself. Those later transmissions are a lot heavier than the earlier ones.
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Old 06-21-2020, 05:57 PM   #73
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Default Re: 1951 Ford overdrive

My Mercs have the removable floor over the transmission. The transmission can actually be pulled up into the car after removing the clevis pins and pulling the front seat out. Ford cars didn't have this feature but Mercury and Lincoln cars did in that era. The engine still has to be supported though but that's pretty much a given on flathead V8s.
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Old 06-22-2020, 07:17 AM   #74
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A convertible with the X frame is the worst. I lower the engine and remove the four bolts and speedometer drive along with the clutch and shift linkage. I can then turn the transmission to remove the overdrive apparatus. The transmission is then rotated about 75 degrees and pulled back until the front shaft clears the bell housing. The front shaft is lowered untl the transmission can be slid forward and dropped completely. I made an apparatus to hold the transmission on the jack that bolts where the solenoid goes to hold the transmission steady.
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Old 06-22-2020, 12:40 PM   #75
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Fortunately I'm dealing with a 1951 Victoria which has the simpler ladder configuration with some factory added reinforcement under the doors. The manual states that the exhaust down pipe be removed. It looks like there is adequate clearance without this step. Am I missing something?
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Old 06-22-2020, 12:51 PM   #76
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My project.
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Old 06-22-2020, 02:27 PM   #77
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Only if the pipe is in the way of the crossmember coming out.
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Old 06-22-2020, 04:24 PM   #78
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Default Re: 1951 Ford overdrive

Beautiful Vic there, Mrlaser! I love the color...is it a stock color?
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Old 06-22-2020, 06:36 PM   #79
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Maybe Hawthorne green? I have not needed to do anything with the exhaust when removing the transmission, even with duals
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Old 06-22-2020, 08:07 PM   #80
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Yes, stock colors. Greenbriar green and seafoam green. I did use basecoat clear because the original formulas were available.
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Old 06-22-2020, 08:42 PM   #81
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Very nice looking Victoria.
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Old 06-22-2020, 09:12 PM   #82
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I think the Victoria is by far he best looking of all the "shoeboxes". I really wanted one and looked for one for several years. In the end, I ended up settling for a Club Coupe.
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Old 06-29-2020, 07:00 AM   #83
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Well the beast is out. Now for the teardown. I have recently had a very helpful private message and subsequent phone conversation with a member who has repaired these transmissions for 20 years. It is his feeling that the failure of the OD to engage is due to the balk ring being improperly positioned. I will provide follow-up information as I have it. Thanks to all who have provided advice and help.
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Old 06-29-2020, 07:33 AM   #84
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Great! I'm very interested to see what you find and hope you get it resolved soon. Ken
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Old 06-29-2020, 11:04 AM   #85
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I too am interested in how your repair goes. I have a 52 setup out of the car. The wiring and electrical parts work. I would be interested to know any transmission tests that can be done before reinstalling into the car. With transmissions, I have always figured they can't be tested other than checking bearings and running through the gears manually. The OD adds a level of complication.
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Old 06-30-2020, 01:02 PM   #86
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This is what I have found so far. I am not sure about the balk ring tension yet.
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Old 06-30-2020, 07:18 PM   #87
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See that notch in the upper middle of the picture. The pawl is supposed to engage in that. Try turning it to see if it moves. What the balk ring does is slows it down enough to engage the overdrive. I may be wrong it's been a while since I too one apart.
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Old 06-30-2020, 09:13 PM   #88
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I have a real soft spot for the 51 vickies as that was my first car. It was a blue/green color with a white top...lots of memories.
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Old 06-30-2020, 09:16 PM   #89
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Default Re: 1951 Ford overdrive

I think several of us are breathlessly waiting for the next episode!
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Old 07-01-2020, 10:13 AM   #90
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In the above picture it appears that the balk ring is significantly abraded. The shot today is after cleaning off much of the lubricant. What appeared to be scoring was apparently due to the lighting and streaking of the grease. Today's picture shows the ring and gear after some cleaning. I did test the balk ring with a kitchen scale and to get movement of the two ends towards each other required at least 10 pounds ( the scale maxed out; and I heard my wife approaching). moving the ends apart was very easy. I made this check after cleaning the part with carburetor cleaner which may have contributed to the excessive drag. i'll try repeating the test after applying some lubrication. The other picture shows what is in fact some abrasion of the governor/ speedometer drive gear. I am hoping that this can be cleaned up with a file. I'm also not sure whether this is a recent issue or preexisted the last rebuild.
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Old 07-01-2020, 02:04 PM   #91
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The answer!!

With the very patient help of fellow Ford Barn member Gary Duff the problem has been solved. With the stationary gear plate removed and the solenoid , pawl and sun gear in place and the solenoid energized the pawl moves to the first notch on the balk ring. While maintaining electrical connection and the with the sun gear being rotated clockwise, the pawl drops into the deeper notch on the balk gear. When the adapter plate was put in place with the large snap ring and the above procedure repeated, the pawl would not fully engage. The attached pictures show the area of binding on the backside of the adapter plate.
There is a ridge which is catching and preventing the pawl from fully engaging. I will do some judicious filing to eliminate the problem. I will do a followup post when that is finished and the system is working properly. Again I thank everyone for their help with a very special thanks to Gary.
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Old 07-02-2020, 11:00 AM   #92
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Default Re: 1951 Ford overdrive

The plate and trough assembly appears to have some significant wear there. I think I'd consider replacing that to maintain clearances on the output shaft.
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Old 07-02-2020, 03:36 PM   #93
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I have a replacement coming. Thanks for the advice.
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Old 07-04-2020, 01:42 PM   #94
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The replacement plate and trough is in place. When there is no power supplied to the solenoid, the solenoid plunger is fully retracted and the pawl disengaged. Applying power to the number 4 terminal on the solenoid results in the pawl moving about an 1/8" into the upper slot on the balk ring. With the power continuing to be supplied to the solenoid, the output shaft is turned clockwise, the pawl travels a further 3/8", fully engaging the balk gear. It was the ridge worn into the original plate which "caught " the pawl and was prevented its full travel.

Incidentally, it was Gary Duff who walked me through the above steps and also mentioned that the balk ring used by Ford was modified to prevent it from becoming improperly aligned . Because of this modification, the steps outlined in the Borg Warner manual to realign the ring without removing the transmission ( which I tried unsuccessfully) will not work on the Ford transmission. I hope this information will be helpful to others. Thanks again to everyone who has offered advice on this issue.
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Old 07-04-2020, 02:39 PM   #95
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Thank YOU for keeping us in the loop! Let us know when it is back in the car and operating.
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Old 07-04-2020, 05:22 PM   #96
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Will do. I have learned a lot from other's posts on various subjects. I'm disappointed when a thread just ends without resolution. Like a good book without the last few chapters.
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Old 07-04-2020, 06:07 PM   #97
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Laserman: I'm following this, too. Do you suppose that was just wear from a hard used transmission, or maybe started with a defect?
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Old 07-05-2020, 06:35 AM   #98
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It appears to be a groove worn into the surface rather than a manufacturing defect. I purchased the car in 2003 and the OD wasn't working at that time. I also plan to replace the speedometer gear and I have a replacement.
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Old 07-05-2020, 07:30 AM   #99
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Default Re: 1951 Ford overdrive

The 1951 version of the transmission has no lockout switch, in contrast to the 49/50 circuit. I wonder if operating the transmission in the locked out mode (with the solenoid trying to engage but mechanically restricted from doing so) can cause this kind of wear?
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Old 07-05-2020, 09:17 AM   #100
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I don't know what caused the "gouging" The plate is hardened steel so whatever caused it probably took some time.

As long as I am typing, I have two additional questions. 1. Is the drain plug for the transmission 1" npt? 2. I am also having real difficulty removing the snap ring which holds the speedometer gear in place. I have tried several types of USA made snap ring tools without success. Only one side of the ring moves and not enough to begin to move it up on the output shaft. Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated.
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Old 07-05-2020, 12:00 PM   #101
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Default Re: 1951 Ford overdrive

If I had to guess, I'd say that what ever car it came with was one that made a lot of little short trips without a lot of shifting into overdrive. Or it was operated in lock out mode a lot with no electric lock out switch. Only the early 8BA era cars had the lock out switch.

One thing is for certain. Things wear out. It's good to know that this might be a problem area to check in the future for other owners.

A lot of the Ford/Borg Warner transmissions used a split type lock ring that is impossible to remove with snap ring pliers. A screw driver has to be used to remove those types and I replace them with the ones offered by Mac VP. If it is just stuck in the groove then a person may have to find a way to get it to move. Tap the gear with brass tooling & try it again.
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Old 07-05-2020, 12:37 PM   #102
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Thanks. I'll try the screwdriver. The lock ring will move when it is tapped with a brass drift. I have had a screwdriver under the ring but I haven't been able to walk it up the shaft. I will check Mac VanPelt's site for a replacement snap ring. Thank you for your advice.
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Old 07-05-2020, 02:26 PM   #103
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Sometimes you can get the ring spread a little bit with the usual lock ring pliers....just enough spread and twist will make one side of the ring open up a gap. You can push a thin blade screwdriver into the gap and carefully twist the screwdriver. This may get the one side out of its groove. Place the shaft into a vice, clamped between two thin pieces of plywood. Snug it good and tight. Now you can fit any old beater screwdriver into the groove and tap it with a hammer to force the ring out of the groove as you tap the screwdriver all the way around. Usually the lock ring wants to stay in the groove until the very last 1/4” and then it pops out entirely. For some reason those lock rings by the speedometer gear are almost always tight like that.
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Old 07-05-2020, 02:29 PM   #104
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Great information. That's my project for tomorrow. Thanks Mac. If it's mangled in the process I will be calling for an acceptable replacement.
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Old 07-05-2020, 02:35 PM   #105
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We’re on vacation this coming week so we can’t answer the phone or ship orders during that time. I’m staying busy with home and car projects and really enjoying the break. I know there will be hell to pay the following Monday...... ��
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Old 07-05-2020, 02:36 PM   #106
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We’re on vacation this coming week so we can’t answer the phone or ship orders during that time. I’m staying busy with home and car projects and really enjoying the break. I know there will be hell to pay the following Monday...... 😳
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Old 07-06-2020, 01:29 PM   #107
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Well once again Ford Barn members have ridden to the rescue. The screwdriver technique did the trick after a few tries. I found that the ring tended to drop back into the groove when repositioning the screwdriver and the output shaft in the vice. I found that I could put a short awl in the groove under the displaced ring which allowed me to reposition the screwdriver without having the ring snap back into the groove. I also have soft jaw covers for the vise which prevented any damage to the shaft. If I had a 3rd hand a simple picture would likely provide a much clearer explanation. I must say that I have never had this much difficulty with a snap ring.
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Old 07-06-2020, 06:22 PM   #108
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Mac has a snap ring kit that comes with the rings that are easy to remove and he made sure they meet the right thickness dimension requirements of the OEM rings. It will make further work a lot easier if it ever needs any again. You might check with him about this to be sure he has the one you need. The OD transmissions have more of them than the standard transmissions do.
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Old 07-07-2020, 06:10 AM   #109
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Thanks for the information. I will check with him when he returns. I also appreciate all the previous information that you have provided.
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Old 07-08-2020, 09:46 AM   #110
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I found an article on another forum. It was published in the April 1949 edition of Popular Science magazine. I found it to be the best explanation of the operation of the Borg Warner overdrive unit that I have encountered. It probably won't be news to some but might be helpful for others. Unfortunately, the actual article is too large to attach so, if interested you can access it by this link and then searching "How overdrive works" in the search this issue box.

https://books.google.com/books/about...d=eSQDAAAAMBAJ
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Old 07-08-2020, 10:03 AM   #111
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This is a cropped illustration from Popular Science reference to give some idea about the quality of the article.
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Old 07-11-2020, 02:29 PM   #112
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The transmission is back together. There were 3 things that were wrong or incorrect. As I mentioned previously the plate which covers the Balk ring and gear had a significant ridge worn into it which prevented the pawl from fully engaging balk gear and thus preventing the shift into overdrive. The damage to the speedometer/governor gear was caused by an incorrect governor drive gear assembly. The tip of the unit measures 0.248 and should have been 0.375. The recess in the OD housing measures 3/8" or 0.375. This allowed the gear to move abnormally and resulted in the damage to speedometer / governor gear. The replacement part is being shipped. I wan't to again thank everyone for their help and interest, with special thanks to Gary Duff.
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Old 07-11-2020, 02:45 PM   #113
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Sorry for the duplicate post. I had to edit a few pictures for size. I also wanted to mention that the Ford Parts book that I have has an exploded view of the OD unit which shows the speedometer/governor gear on the output shaft gear on backwards. It was a bit difficult to remove and replace so I am glad I only remembered the book after I was done.
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Old 07-11-2020, 02:54 PM   #114
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More pictures.
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Old 07-11-2020, 05:45 PM   #115
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Thanks for keeping us posted on this, I have it bookmarked.
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Old 07-12-2020, 05:46 AM   #116
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The picture of the governor drive gear also shows that it has a right hand pitch to the gear teeth. All Ford OD governors used a gear with a LH pitch through 1956. For some reason they changed to the RH pitch beginning in 1957 production. This meant that the driving gear on the OD mainshaft also changed to match the new driven gear.

Also, half the parts drawings in the various manuals show the gear on the mainshaft with the gear teeth close to the bearing rather than toward the rear (next to the snap ring). I believe that those drawings are incorrect.....every one I’ve done has the gear teeth towards the rear. The easy way to know is to look through the opening of the housing where the governor mounts. You should see the driving gear teeth directly centered in your view. If it’s towards the front of the transmission (and barely in view) it will not line up correct to the governor gear.
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Old 07-12-2020, 07:01 AM   #117
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Thanks Mac. I didn't see the original governor gear when the transmission was rebuilt. The overdrive didn't function when I originally purchased the car. As the picture in the previous post shows, the gear is directly over the spot faced area of the od housing. I mentioned the error in the exploded view because, without some sage advice from others, I probably would have assumed that the gear in my transmission had been incorrectly installed.
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Old 07-13-2020, 05:36 PM   #118
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I hope this is the last piece of this puzzle. The governor now has the proper drive gear with the 3/8" tip. Now to get the transmission back in place. Thanks everyone.
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Old 07-14-2020, 06:19 AM   #119
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Nice! Hope you can get it installed soon and enjoy some low RPM cruising in your shoebox
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Old 07-28-2020, 10:57 AM   #120
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As I promised, once I had everything back in place, I would give a report on the outcome of my transmission problems. I had my first test drive this morning and the overdrive functioned perfectly. It was a real pleasure driving with the overdrive engaged and the engine RPM reduced by 30% in 2nd and 3rd gear. Also, I want to add that I again used synthetic Red Line Mt-90, Gl-4 transmission lubricant. This was on the advice of Gary Duff who has used this product for years on many rebuilds. Thanks again for everyone's help and interest with a special thank you to Gary.
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Old 07-28-2020, 03:46 PM   #121
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Mr Laser

Thanks for taking the time to let us know the resolve of your issue. Great documentation.

Enjoy the miles with your OD,

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Old 07-28-2020, 06:04 PM   #122
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I'm glad you stuck with it to the end. Congratulations!
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Old 07-28-2020, 09:13 PM   #123
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Congratulations! I have to say that I admire your perserverance and am glad you have this finally figured out. I am in the process of installing an OD in my '51 as well and really appreciate this thread.

Happy motoring!
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Old 07-28-2020, 10:27 PM   #124
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Sweet wrap up to a frustrating problem. I admire your tenacity - it paid off!
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Old 08-23-2020, 12:31 PM   #125
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Well I now have driven about 120 miles since the OD issues were solved. I can't believe the incredible difference it makes in the driving experience.

Unfortunately, one problem remains. The OD actuating cable is very stiff to operate. I don't have the original bracket that fixes the aluminum fitting near the end of the cable housing to the transmission. Proper immobilization of the housing is necessary to allow the inner cable to move freely and operate the OD lever. At present, I have used a simple cable clamp attached to the top bolt on the solenoid. This is putting the cable on a slight bind. Would anyone have a picture of ( and a potential source for) the correct bracket? I also need information as where the bracket attaches to the transmission? I did try a bracket from a '55 Thunderbird but was unable to make it work. Thanks for any help that may be provided.
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Old 08-23-2020, 06:00 PM   #126
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The paper back parts catalog I have doesn't show an illustration for the overdrive control cable but a part number similar to what the Mercury cars use is listed as 8A4296. I'm not sure how it attaches since it is different than the Mercury types. They had one that was a curved metal piece that attached above the square pocket between the shift arms in a threaded hole there and used a stud with a nut to hold the cable guide. The other type was a clamp like an Adel clamp only it had an extra bend in it as a stand off and it either bolted to the same place or it bolted on with one of the side cover top bolts. The illustration is not good enough for me to tell.

A person could use an Aircraft type Adel clamp but they might have to fabricate a stand off to get as straight a position as possible with the lock out lever. I would look for one made from steel. It could take the pressure better than an aluminum one.
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Old 08-24-2020, 06:23 AM   #127
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Thank you. I will research your suggestion.
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Old 09-07-2020, 11:30 AM   #128
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Don't know if you still need a picture of that cable clip for the OD, but here's the one on my '50 Custom Deluxe. Haven't found a part number though. Have you checked with Mac VanPelt?
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Old 09-07-2020, 12:14 PM   #129
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That's great. I haven't found another picture of the bracket. I see that it is attached to the top bolt holding the solenoid which is where I currently have it fastened with a cable clamp. Unfortunately that puts the cable in a bind. I will try Mac Vanpelt next week. Thanks so much for posting the picture.
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Old 09-07-2020, 01:58 PM   #130
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I'll take a couple of pictures that show how the rest of the cable is routed from the firewall down to the trans on mine. It's a pretty straight shot to that solenoid the way it's setup.

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Old 09-08-2020, 07:42 PM   #131
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Default Re: 1951 Ford overdrive

Mr Laser,
I'm not a photographer for sure. But these pix may help. The cable on mine comes out of firewall and arcs down to a clip on the steering gear. The other cable is speedo. Then it passes through this tab on bellhousing. Not sure if that's correct, but the car hasn't been messed with much in 70 years (64,000 current miles). The last place the cable is held is with the clip on the solenoid shown in the previous post. No binding issues. That's all I got!

Mike
P.S. Thanks for volunteering to be our new R-11 Overdrive expert!
Attached Images
File Type: jpg Inkedod cable 1_LI.jpg (51.5 KB, 21 views)
File Type: jpg Inkedod cable 2_LI.jpg (52.2 KB, 21 views)

Last edited by Black Fifty; 09-08-2020 at 08:01 PM. Reason: add content
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Old 09-09-2020, 05:48 AM   #132
Mac VP
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Default Re: 1951 Ford overdrive

Unfortunately we don’t have any of the various clips/clamps for securing the overdrive cable. First of all, without the cable connected to the lockout lever, check it for smooth operation. If the inner and outer cable elements are corroded (or dry) try pulling them apart and cleaning any rust off......then grease the inner cable. If the cable seems badly corroded or badly kinked, I’d recommend replacing it with a new cable. We have those in stock.

There were several locations for supporting clamps, and you’ve seen some pictures in this topic thread. Over the years I think Ford tended to change the clamp locations as well. I have some drawings from several 49-59 chassis parts manuals that I have posted a links to.

http://www.vanpeltsales.com/FH_web/F..._53-59ford.jpg

http://www.vanpeltsales.com/FH_web/F...49to52merc.jpg

The final clamp is shown on the solenoid upper bolt in one image and it’s on an upper shifter housing bolt in another image.
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Old 09-09-2020, 06:36 AM   #133
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Default Re: 1951 Ford overdrive

Thanks for the additional pictures and the diagrams. I had already replaced the OD cable during the restoration. The cable only binds when fixed with the cable clamp at the solenoid. I will fabricate another bracket like the one shown in the later Ford exploded view. Actually, I have enjoyed using the OD position so much that it's hard to imagine pulling that handle out. That is especially true since I live on the coast in Savannah, where things are pretty flat.

BTW, although I appreciate the compliment, I am a learning "novice" with regards to the overdrive. I give complete credit to the members of this forum, and especially Gary Duff, for all their help solving this vexing issue.
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