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Old 03-31-2020, 01:12 PM   #1
tubman
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Default Discontinuing search for .33 micro-farad capacitors.

For the last three years, my partner and I have been trying to find a .33 micro-farad capacitor to be used in our units under certain circumstances. Recent research has yielded enough information that we have decided that the need for these is almost nil. It consists solely of those running good original Ford coils. It has come to our attention that the converted coils are different enough in electronic characteristics that a .33 micro-farad capacitor is probably a bad choice to run with them.

We are now working on determining what the actual capacitance of a condenser would be that would be optimum for these modified coils. For the present, ourt .22 micro-farad units continue to be a good choice for performance and minimal point wear.

I have been talking about the higher value units for so long that I thought it would not be fair to drop the search without giving notice.
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Old 03-31-2020, 01:37 PM   #2
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Default Re: Discontinuing search for .33 micro-farad capacitors.

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For the last three years, my partner and I have been trying to find a .33 micro-farad capacitor to be used in our units under certain circumstances. Recent research has yielded enough information that we have decided that the need for these is almost nil. It consists solely of those running good original Ford coils. It has come to our attention that the converted coils are different enough in electronic characteristics that a .33 micro-farad capacitor is probably a bad choice to run with them.

We are now working on determining what the actual capacitance of a condenser would be that would be optimum for these modified coils. For the present, ourt .22 micro-farad units continue to be a good choice for performance and minimal point wear.

I have been talking about the higher value units for so long that I thought it would not be fair to drop the search without giving notice.
It must be hard to determine the cap value with the frequency varying all over the place. Is there a standard rpm (frequency) used for that?
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Old 03-31-2020, 02:13 PM   #3
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Default Re: Discontinuing search for .33 micro-farad capacitors.

"Terry OH" posted a link to an article concerning this on my previous thread. You are correct in saying that the optimum capacitance varies with RPM. I will be doing some additional research on this, but I now believe that the practical range for optimum performance is so wide that it makes little difference. As of now "Close" counts in condensers, as well as the traditional "horseshoes and hand grenades".

I will be doing continuing monitoring of point wear on my own cars, which is probably the most practical way of going about it. At this point, I don't even know what the relationship between point wear and optimal performance is.
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Old 03-31-2020, 02:39 PM   #4
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Default Re: Discontinuing search for .33 micro-farad capacitors.

My solution for the problem might sound 'pointless'
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Old 03-31-2020, 03:11 PM   #5
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Default Re: Discontinuing search for .33 micro-farad capacitors.

I had hoped that Tubman could put a mid .30's into one of his trashcans but he said it would not work out. Such a neat looking condenser. I am still using the original Ford part in my 34. I have not had any problems for the 5 plus years of running. I have a couple backups that test good so I feel I am "good to go." Probably sell the car this year so the next guy can do his own experimenting if the need arises.
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Old 03-31-2020, 03:52 PM   #6
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Default Re: Discontinuing search for .33 micro-farad capacitors.

"34fordy" - Just curious; have you had your coil rebuilt or is it original?
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Old 03-31-2020, 03:53 PM   #7
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Default Re: Discontinuing search for .33 micro-farad capacitors.

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My solution for the problem might sound 'pointless'
I'm sure it would!
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Old 03-31-2020, 05:35 PM   #8
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Default Re: Discontinuing search for .33 micro-farad capacitors.

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"34fordy" - Just curious; have you had your coil rebuilt or is it original?
To make a short story long---When I bought the car in 2014 (the first flathead since my 40 coupe in 1962) the previous owner had put a remote can coil up on the left head. Wired backwards. Just ruined the look of that side of the engine. I thought I wanted the original setup. I did some searching on the Internet as I had no idea what was available. Ended up buying an old Ford script coil that this seller advertised as "dried out" His ad said moisture was a problem in the early coils. Not knowing poop from putty about early Ford ignitions I took a chance. The system has worked beautifully for 6 years. I took the distributor out last year and the points had no transfer. I drive the Fordor less than 2k miles per year as that is what my insurance specifies. I carry a spare Ford condenser in the glove box. In my humble opinion, I think the Ford system, as built in the 1930's was very suitable for the demands I put on the car. I have installed quite a few Petronix ignitions on Hyster Continental 6 cylinder fork lift trucks years ago and did experience some problems with the rotors failing. Possibly from the heat. (Guess I made the answer long enough?). LOL The coil has never been apart Denny.
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Old 03-31-2020, 05:39 PM   #9
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Default Re: Discontinuing search for .33 micro-farad capacitors.

34fordy,
A friend of mine that owns a early ford parts store SWEARS there is a method to dry out the coils and seal them and they never go bad. Maybe this was whom yours came from?
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Old 03-31-2020, 06:38 PM   #10
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Default Re: Discontinuing search for .33 micro-farad capacitors.

There was an article about 15 years ago in the EFV8 club magazine that baddressed this exact issue. It looked good to me, but there was a lot of resistance to the process. I don't exactly remember who it was from.
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Old 03-31-2020, 08:16 PM   #11
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Default Re: Discontinuing search for .33 micro-farad capacitors.

Quote:
Originally Posted by tubman View Post
"Terry OH" posted a link to an article concerning this on my previous thread. You are correct in saying that the optimum capacitance varies with RPM. I will be doing some additional research on this, but I now believe that the practical range for optimum performance is so wide that it makes little difference. As of now "Close" counts in condensers, as well as the traditional "horseshoes and hand grenades".

I will be doing continuing monitoring of point wear on my own cars, which is probably the most practical way of going about it. At this point, I don't even know what the relationship between point wear and optimal performance is.
I suspicion the "Q" of the circuit is so low due to the iron core coil that the resonance peak is VERY broad, thus the wide value range of the cap that works.
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Old 03-31-2020, 08:33 PM   #12
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Default Re: Discontinuing search for .33 micro-farad capacitors.

Confirms what I have concluded. Thanks, "Pete". It means a lot coming from you.

I was kinda surprised that an old "cam grinder" would be so "up" on advanced mathematics, but once I thought about it, it makes perfect sense.
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Old 03-31-2020, 09:05 PM   #13
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Default Re: Discontinuing search for .33 micro-farad capacitors.

I met the 'dry out guy' at Hershey 20 + years ago, turned he had written a couple
articles about his process. I bit and sent him 3 coils.....each worked 100% for about
30 miles, then George Mitchell and Skip came on the scene.......end of story.
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Old 03-31-2020, 09:13 PM   #14
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Default Re: Discontinuing search for .33 micro-farad capacitors.

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Confirms what I have concluded. Thanks, "Pete". It means a lot coming from you.

I was kinda surprised that an old "cam grinder" would be so "up" on advanced mathematics, but once I thought about it, it makes perfect sense.
It probably comes from many years in the 2 way radio business a sideline.
Thanks.
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Old 04-01-2020, 05:06 AM   #15
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Default Re: Discontinuing search for .33 micro-farad capacitors.

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34fordy,
A friend of mine that owns a early ford parts store SWEARS there is a method to dry out the coils and seal them and they never go bad. Maybe this was whom yours came from?
There is many "myths" on cars etc , this is one for sure , if you ever busted a early coil apart theres not much to "dry out" . I have read the articles on drying out the coils . The early coils winding with the tar and all would more than likely work under water ... Skip has the fix .......
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Old 04-01-2020, 06:43 AM   #16
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Default Re: Discontinuing search for .33 micro-farad capacitors.

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Originally Posted by BUBBAS IGNITION View Post
There is many "myths" on cars etc , this is one for sure , if you ever busted a early coil apart theres not much to "dry out" . I have read the articles on drying out the coils . The early coils winding with the tar and all would more than likely work under water ... Skip has the fix .......

I’ve never tried a “dried out” one. I only use skips, matter of fact I have six coils sent off to him right now.

I had one apart and there is no way I would attempt to rebuild or sneak a coil in a original case due to the time it takes when skip does them so cheap


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Old 04-01-2020, 09:06 AM   #17
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Default Re: Discontinuing search for .33 micro-farad capacitors.

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Originally Posted by Charlie ny View Post
I met the 'dry out guy' at Hershey 20 + years ago, turned he had written a couple
articles about his process. I bit and sent him 3 coils.....each worked 100% for about
30 miles, then George Mitchell and Skip came on the scene.......end of story.
Charlie ny
I believe that sometimes people put a lot of time and effort into trying to remedy a problem as I am sure this guy probably did. I probably got lucky and happened to get one that has proven to be good. The test of time usually brings light to the true results. We are lucky that Skip Haney has that product that has passed the test of time. That is why I have I have one of his on the shelf if or when I need it. When I started this journey I was not aware of the FORDBARN so the best information was not available to me. I have appreciated so much all of the help I have received from our members!

Last edited by 34fordy; 04-01-2020 at 09:10 AM. Reason: spelling
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Old 04-01-2020, 01:02 PM   #18
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Default Re: Discontinuing search for .33 micro-farad capacitors.

The whole front mounted distributor with integral coil was definitely one of those things that Henry Ford wanted to pursue. Emil Zoerlein mentioned a lot about it in his reminiscence at the Henry Ford. A lot of the reason the coils were designed the way they were was at Henry's insistence. Eventually Henry collaborated with Marion Mallory Sr to improve the design over time and for better production methods. A person has to get curious about the design to figure out why they had to use a ballast resistor on a 6-volt system. All this stuff was designed to make Henry's idea work and work it did but it wasn't conventional for the time period.
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Old 04-01-2020, 05:30 PM   #19
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Default Re: Discontinuing search for .33 micro-farad capacitors.

They do work OK though, as I pondered on our recent trip out to Ayers rock and back in the 33,day after day it hummed along at 53 mph towing the caravan for around 7000 klms,
Lawrie

Last edited by Lawrie; 04-01-2020 at 05:43 PM.
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Old 04-01-2020, 06:42 PM   #20
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Default Re: Discontinuing search for .33 micro-farad capacitors.

If you are interested, there is a fairly detailed article on condensers in the 2014 September/October issue of the V-8 Times.It covers the values of Ford condensers from 1928 thru 1953.
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