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02-27-2020, 10:15 PM | #1 |
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Electrical schematic request - 41 Convt. electric top
All,
Can anyone assist? I'm looking for a wiring schematic for a 41 Ford electric convertible top. This is not a hydraulic pump/ram system like later models. There is a motor either side operating a screw jack assembly. I understand these are shunt wired motors and I should be able to figure this, but I thought I'd ask here before diving in. Any assistance appreciated. |
02-27-2020, 11:12 PM | #2 |
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Re: Electrical schematic request - 41 Convt. electric top
Try Electro Hydraulics in Punta Gorda,Fl. They provide wiring,
motors and parts for Ford convertible tops. G.M.
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02-28-2020, 09:59 PM | #3 |
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Re: Electrical schematic request - 41 Convt. electric top
Will do, many thanks
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02-28-2020, 11:45 PM | #4 |
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Re: Electrical schematic request - 41 Convt. electric top
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02-29-2020, 02:19 PM | #5 |
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Re: Electrical schematic request - 41 Convt. electric top
Get a copy of the 1939-48 Ford/Mercury shop manual If you own a vehicle from those years, you need this book It has extensive info on the Auto-Lite electric top. Order from C&G at 800/266-0470. Order the printed version V-222, or the CD version CD-39-48, which is less expensive. The electric top was a one year model in 1941, and replaced the earlier vacuum version in previous years. The electric top was difficult to adjust, as the motors tended to get out of sync. This problem survived in the later retractable hard top, and spelled the end of that type when service became an expensive matter.
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02-29-2020, 10:43 PM | #6 |
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Re: Electrical schematic request - 41 Convt. electric top
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03-01-2020, 12:31 PM | #7 |
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Re: Electrical schematic request - 41 Convt. electric top
Try Classic Car Wiring .Com
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03-01-2020, 05:27 PM | #8 |
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Re: Electrical schematic request - 41 Convt. electric top
If you have access to 1935 to 1952 Motors Auto Repair manual there is some information there. The info is quite basic. it does have a diagram showing switch and breaker locations. PM me if you want it. I can scan the info for you.
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03-02-2020, 06:27 PM | #9 |
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Re: Electrical schematic request - 41 Convt. electric top
My 39-48 shop manual does have the wiring diagram.. Send me a personal message on the site and I'll scan it for you.
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03-06-2020, 02:17 AM | #10 |
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Re: Electrical schematic request - 41 Convt. electric top
PM's sent. Many thanks, supereal and 41ford1.
I have the Ford 1932-1941 shop manual, the 41 Super Deluxe owners booklet and the EFV8 book. All great reference texts, but none with the convertible top schematic I need for the 41. It would be easy if the 41 used a hydro electric system (I have a schematic for this) instead of two screw jack motors. P.S. Hydro-E-Lectric had no data but were kind enough to respond, for which I thank them. Many thanks for the assistance. Last edited by fortyonerag; 03-06-2020 at 02:41 AM. |
03-06-2020, 05:08 PM | #11 |
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Re: Electrical schematic request - 41 Convt. electric top
The 1939 to 1948 green cover Service Manual used reprint material from a Canadian Ford training shop manual and has a lot of information the plain Ford manuals didn't have. It covers Ford & Mercury cars & trucks. The Autolite electric top info is in there. Reprints of these are not as good as the originals unless a digital copy is taken from an original but they aren't bad.
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03-07-2020, 04:07 AM | #12 |
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Re: Electrical schematic request - 41 Convt. electric top
Worth knowing. Many thanks.
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03-07-2020, 10:07 AM | #13 | |
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Re: Electrical schematic request - 41 Convt. electric top
Quote:
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03-07-2020, 01:12 PM | #14 |
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Re: Electrical schematic request - 41 Convt. electric top
The 1941 Autolite system had just the two separate motors. They were problematic when one motor would run faster than the other which is a characteristic of any worn electric motor. Due to these problems, the system was short lived.
A lot of later convertible electric actuator systems used those dual drives off of a single motor to solve the speed differential problem but it seems all of them can be problematic at times. The more complex the system, the more possibilities of problems. |
03-07-2020, 01:39 PM | #15 | |
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Re: Electrical schematic request - 41 Convt. electric top
Quote:
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03-08-2020, 07:00 PM | #16 | |
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Re: Electrical schematic request - 41 Convt. electric top
Quote:
Quite a few big wires. I'll just get off my slack backside and ring the circuit out I guess. |
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03-10-2020, 09:28 PM | #17 |
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Re: Electrical schematic request - 41 Convt. electric top
I am attaching the scans from the Motors Manual here. I hope these help on your project.
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03-11-2020, 07:46 AM | #18 | |
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Re: Electrical schematic request - 41 Convt. electric top
Quote:
This has been an a very educational post. |
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03-11-2020, 09:31 AM | #19 | |
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Re: Electrical schematic request - 41 Convt. electric top
Quote:
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03-11-2020, 02:09 PM | #20 |
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Re: Electrical schematic request - 41 Convt. electric top
In 1952 I used a pair of '41 Ford conv top motors, complete with the wiring and switch in my '36 Ford coupe as a remote lift for the deck lid. Pretty trick setup, especially sitting in the car and having the deck lid raise and lower as if by magic.
Never had a problem for over ten years, then one day one of the motors quit. I pulled the attachment bolt out of one jack, disconnected the wiring from same, the one remaining jack has worked just fine every since. There are no relays built-into the system, just the wiring loom and the Ford self cancelling switch. Throughout the years a lot of people have tried their best to buy the '41 system from me.
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03-11-2020, 03:39 PM | #21 |
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Re: Electrical schematic request - 41 Convt. electric top
Good catch, you are correct, they were hydraulic and not vacuum. That's what I get for reading the Motors Manual on electric, hydraulic and vacuum power tops, prior to my post. I need to disengage before shifting.
Last edited by Merc Cruzer; 03-11-2020 at 03:48 PM. |
03-14-2020, 12:42 AM | #22 |
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Re: Electrical schematic request - 41 Convt. electric top
Many thanks 41Ford1 and Supereal for the scans.
I have attached the schematic I got from Supereal via PM to go with the 41Ford1 scans I hope this is OK, someone (poor intrepid 41 convert owner) may find this useful in the future. Thanks again Barners! |
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03-14-2020, 12:49 AM | #23 |
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Re: Electrical schematic request - 41 Convt. electric top
From what I can see, the systems looks very similar, but the 41 has two motors of course. What threw me was that the system installed in my car has no relays, just a large multi pole switch.
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03-14-2020, 05:33 AM | #24 |
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Re: Electrical schematic request - 41 Convt. electric top
Duplicate post
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03-14-2020, 01:25 PM | #25 | |
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Re: Electrical schematic request - 41 Convt. electric top
Quote:
I can assure you that there are no relays in the original '41 electric lift system. The '41 system in my '36 is a dead stock unit, all of the wires are still contained within the original fabric covered loom. None of the original wires have ever been removed/disturbed from the original Ford switch.
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03-14-2020, 03:15 PM | #26 |
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Re: Electrical schematic request - 41 Convt. electric top
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You may be right, but there is no basis for your statement in actual fact. This is how "Urban Legends" get started. |
03-15-2020, 02:39 AM | #27 |
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Re: Electrical schematic request - 41 Convt. electric top
The autolite spec sheet rates the motors as 2 oz.ft, 4000-5000 RPM and 29-34 amps each on 6v.
This is probably full load or locked rotor current, but the system is pulling a lot for a simple switch. I have a simple switch BTW. There were a lot of running changes to the 41 over the model year. It wouldn't surprise me if having relays or not was one of them. I tried to measure the total current, but my cheapo 快乐的幸运公鸡 (Ghong Whah Happy Lucky Rooster Brand - TM) meter got Alzheimer's at 15A and went on holiday. I should have kept my old AVO-8 I'm trying to size a voltage drop resistor for a 12V conversion. The motors will probably be OK on 12V due to their short duty, but if I fry them, I'm in a world of expense. Last edited by fortyonerag; 03-15-2020 at 06:21 AM. |
03-15-2020, 09:43 AM | #28 |
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Re: Electrical schematic request - 41 Convt. electric top
Do you have a picture of the motors and how they attach? If they are the configuration I think they might be, a 12 volt window motor, from a mid 50's car might be able to be adapted, if you are gong 12 volt conversion.
Otherwise, you are right, the 6 volt motors will be expensive and had to find. I was lucky to find another one for my car a while back. It just sits in a box, waiting to be used. My theory is that if you have a back up you will never need it, but is you don't.... |
03-16-2020, 04:56 PM | #29 |
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Re: Electrical schematic request - 41 Convt. electric top
I'll get a pic in the next day or so. The 12V window motor is a good idea. I'll have to check the torque rating.
Many thanks. |
03-17-2020, 12:43 PM | #30 | |
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Re: Electrical schematic request - 41 Convt. electric top
Quote:
I wonder, how do you interpret anything I said in my write-up that inferred the '41 system I used was "obviously modified"? As a side-bar, many years ago someone tried to break into the trunk of my '36. It appeared that they used some kind of a pry bar, inserting the bar into the space between the lid and the body. A lot of damage was done to the body, put the lid did not come open. Amen for having the two '41 screw jacks attached to the lid and floor of the trunk.
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03-17-2020, 02:47 PM | #31 |
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Re: Electrical schematic request - 41 Convt. electric top
A '41 system used in a '36 car is not a modification? I sure hope you're not a judge at any V8 meets i attend (or for any our venues as well).
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04-01-2020, 11:06 PM | #32 |
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Re: Electrical schematic request - 41 Convt. electric top
OK, lets see how good my memory is (it's been a while since I have done any electrical figgerin').
As I said earlier, I'm looking to do a12V conversion and don't want to damage the 6V top motors. They should be OK on 12V given the short duty cycle, but I'm risk averse and it could get expensive If I damage them. Using a DC current clamp meter, I get a reading of 27A for both motors when the top is commencing to rise. I'll call this Full Load current. When lowering the top, I get a reading of 19A for both motors - I'll call this low load. Ohm's Law specifies: Resistance=Volts/Amps so if I want a 6V drop: Full load R= 6/27 = 0.22 Ohm resistor. Low load R= 6/22 = 0.27 Ohm resistor I'll assume a 0.25 Ohm resistor which should give me anywhere between 5.25V at the motors on full load and 6.5V at the motors at low load. So, a 0.25 Ohm resistor should do it? What power rating? Ohms Law specifies Power = Current squared X Resistor, so: Full load Power = 27X27X0.25 = 182W. The resistor is going to get 'real warm'. If I parallel two 0.5 Ohm resistors I get 0.25 Ohm. Each will share the power so will dissipate 91W of heat each. If I parallel two 0.5 Ohm 200W resistors I should be OK? What say you? I'm a little rusty, so if anyone can run a flinty eye over these numbers I'd appreciate it. Last edited by fortyonerag; 04-02-2020 at 01:08 AM. |
04-03-2020, 08:21 PM | #33 |
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Re: Electrical schematic request - 41 Convt. electric top
Nothing to say, huh?
C'mon, spill |
04-04-2020, 10:01 AM | #34 |
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Re: Electrical schematic request - 41 Convt. electric top
Your numbers look OK. I would make a vented enclosure for the resistors, They will get hot.
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04-04-2020, 06:18 PM | #35 |
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Re: Electrical schematic request - 41 Convt. electric top
Many thanks
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