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Old 07-09-2016, 05:07 PM   #21
H. L. Chauvin
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Default Re: The best Model A I have ever seen!

On the serious side, somebody should be highly commended for spending lots of hours on this Model A restoration.

Most of us who have even attempted Model A renovations can imagine and appreciate the restoration time, and what incremental amounts were spent on the interior upholstery, interior and exterior paint job, parts, & tires.

Let us wish that whoever wins this auction will appreciate the true value of a Model A restoration as we know it.
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Old 07-09-2016, 05:26 PM   #22
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Default Re: The best Model A I have ever seen!

What makes a good car is very subjective. I came across a car show last Sunday and there were three or four vintage cars there. One was a lovely, grey Bugatti roadster and another was a small Renault. The Bugatti was beautiful but everything about it was too new and shiny, the interior looked brand new as did most of the parts under the bonnet. (that's the hood to most of you) The Renault was lovely, well restored but looked the part, a real 1920s car not a modern copy. If I'd had the choice of one of them to take home it would have been the Bugatti but I am so pleased that my Model A has more in common with the Renault.
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Old 07-09-2016, 05:36 PM   #23
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Default Re: The best Model A I have ever seen!

That was a beautiful car and dont let the arm chair a owners upset you some of the people on this forum have never seen an a in person
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Old 07-09-2016, 05:47 PM   #24
dean from bozeman
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Default Re: The best Model A I have ever seen!

Yes, this is a very good looking car...except for the wheel color. I do prefer the more manly black paint option.

The questions about its driveability are valid. We can see that the restorer is very talented when holding a spray gun. Is he as talented when holding a wrench?

Overall, I think a person would do well with such a vehicle. The trophies don't influence me as much as the results of a good road test would. If it's a good driver, this could be one heck of a car to own.
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Old 07-09-2016, 06:05 PM   #25
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Default Re: The best Model A I have ever seen!

As usual, some people could find fault with the Mona Lisa! A truly beautiful car. Wayne
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Old 07-09-2016, 07:07 PM   #26
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Default Re: The best Model A I have ever seen!

Quote:
Originally Posted by H. L. Chauvin View Post
Appears there may be two (2) very important question to consider prior to purchasing, based on thousands of past Model A Forum comments:

1. Wonder what brand of head gasket he installed?

2. Wonder if he re-torqued the head hot or cold?
3. What oil is in the engine?
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Old 07-09-2016, 08:59 PM   #27
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Default Re: The best Model A I have ever seen!

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Originally Posted by Kevin in NJ View Post
Lots of trophy's, but will it run 60 like a factory car?
Do the brakes work?

That may sound like stupied questions, but you might be surprised at how bad some nice looking car drive. I noticed rust at the edges of the springs, now does that mean there is no lubrication between them?

It would also lose a bunch of points at a Model meet because finish of parts. I know that the AACA senior does not mean much other then the paint and interior look good and not necessarly up close.

Yes, I am being negative on this car. For those who are learning and want to buy a car these are little things to consider when you look at pictures. Too many cars look pretty and have poorly done mechanical parts. You need to look for clues as you evaluate. This car could be a super (my definitions) driving car that runs 60 MPH all day long and such, but I am skeptical till I have better reasons to think otherwise.
That's a totally inaccurate statement....did you ever put a car through the paces at an AACA event?
https://fordbarn.com/forum/showthread.php?t=11364

Last edited by Mitch//pa; 07-10-2016 at 06:43 AM.
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Old 07-09-2016, 09:03 PM   #28
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Default Re: The best Model A I have ever seen!

It seems to be a well preserved car since wining the senior in 2004. the sellers feedback shows that his other cars he has sold from his collection were spot on regarding representation. If someone is looking for a show quality piece and willing to shell out for it this is something that may be worth checking out. (In person not just from the pics) I like what I see and the wheel color is easily fixable

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Old 07-09-2016, 09:16 PM   #29
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Default Re: The best Model A I have ever seen!

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Originally Posted by forever4 View Post
The seller also claims the car could get any award at a "MARK" event. If it was so easy, why didn't he? MARC judging is a lot more in-depth and objective than AACA
Marc fine point or touring class are u referring to??

Maybe he had to work during the week like so many others

Last edited by Mitch//pa; 07-10-2016 at 09:02 AM.
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Old 07-10-2016, 07:36 AM   #30
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Default Re: The best Model A I have ever seen!

I know that the cars are not judged very well at the AACA meets. They do not really go over the fine points of the cars. The judging is also dependant on the area.

I have personally seen what has received senior awards and they do not have to be very good. I have looked at hundreds of AACA award winning cars of all types. The cars often looked nice, but were clearly not put together properly. Quite frankly a more then you might think are likely not too safe to drive. Please do not get me wrong, a lot were done very nice, but you can NOT judge the quality of restoration by the AACA award. That only tells you the paint looked nice and the judges did not see too much not right.

I know of one 68C that was restored by Hiberna Restorations. The car got its junior award at Hershey. It was missing the header pan. The bottom of the door windows did not have the correct rubber and you could see the rusty interior of the door. The hinge bolts for the top irons were regular hardware store bolts. Many of the fasteners and other parts with repros.

Granted the car looked pretty, it would not have faired well at a Model A meet.

I know for fact that shows are done and people cars are well judged so they can get their junior and senior awards. My father had attended some of these shows down in FL and some years ago I talked about this with upper level AACA folks and they were aware of the problem.

At the Ocean City meet many many years ago I was in charge of judging 2 high end cars. One was an older well done restoration top and bottom. The other had a fresh paint job and interior and not work done underneath. My results reflected that, the show organizers decided the car with the new paint job should get the award even though the car probably was not safe to drive.

So to answer your question, no, I have entered a car for judging. I do not care to enter a car for judging. I build the cars correct because I want to preserve history and then drive the history. Judging means little to me, I would rather be driving.

I am using this as an teaching point that some will get. Others will probably just keep calling me an A**hole.
Awards do not make a car a good car. You need to look hard at all the parts. This particular car has a bunch of warning signs that it is not the perfect car the owner is trying to make it to be. These warning signs could be an expensive mistake if you fail to look closer. The car is being marketed for top buck and is likely to need thousands of dollars of work to be a reliable safe driving car based on what is seen. One should use caution and look much closer before spending big money on this car.

Remarkable claims need remarkable evidence for proof.
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Old 07-10-2016, 08:07 AM   #31
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Default Re: The best Model A I have ever seen!

The car is parked on a slight incline. Why would they need a wheel chock on the rear wheel if the car was in gear and the hand brake engaged?

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Old 07-10-2016, 08:11 AM   #32
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Default Re: The best Model A I have ever seen!

I have AACA awards on two of my cars and on several occasions people at car shows have loked about the standards to achieve them. One person called them a Cracker Jack trophy! Wayne. .
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Old 07-10-2016, 08:21 AM   #33
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Default Re: The best Model A I have ever seen!

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The car is parked on a slight incline. Why would they need a wheel chock on the rear wheel if the car was in gear and the hand brake engaged?

Glen
For safety....
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Old 07-10-2016, 08:22 AM   #34
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Default Re: The best Model A I have ever seen!

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Originally Posted by Lona View Post
The car is parked on a slight incline. Why would they need a wheel chock on the rear wheel if the car was in gear and the hand brake engaged?

Glen
Personally I use a wheel chock whenever I'm on an incline, I keep it on my back floor along with some tools when I go out for a drive... My e brakes all work great but it's more of a piece mind for me. I have seen the ebrake handle ratchet pop out on a friends car once...I think the teeth had some wear...
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Old 07-10-2016, 08:33 AM   #35
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Default Re: The best Model A I have ever seen!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lona View Post
The car is parked on a slight incline. Why would they need a wheel chock on the rear wheel if the car was in gear and the hand brake engaged?

Glen
A backup for sure! Wayne
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Old 07-10-2016, 09:01 AM   #36
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Default Re: The best Model A I have ever seen!

I'd be frightened to drive that car anywhere, the way I see it if you start off with a few blemishes here and there you arnt to worried about getting a couple more.
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Old 07-10-2016, 09:13 AM   #37
dean from bozeman
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Default Re: The best Model A I have ever seen!

First, this car is getting an awful lot of free publicity. Next time I sell a car I'm going to have someone comment on it so something similar could happen.

Second, I agree about the judging claim. Just because you did well in an AACA meet or a local meet does not mean that you would do well in a MAR(K)C meet. A person would have to do a close inspection but from my desk it looks like it would be a low to mid 400 point car, possibly higher.

Third, the chock concerns me. That incline does not look that great. Of course, I too would want to protect a garage that nice.

Fourth, the quality of the whole eBay ad is outstanding. That is a great way to sell a quality car...if not, any car over the Internet. I love the numerous photos from various angles.

Fifth, I would have to agree that 100% positive feedback after selling a few cars carries some weight. The quality of the ad and the obvious quality of the restoration would make me think that this car could be a great driver or, if gone over by someone with fine point experience, it might do very well in MAFCA/MARC judging. It would take some work but there is a pretty good start there.

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Old 07-10-2016, 09:16 AM   #38
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Default Re: The best Model A I have ever seen!

QUOTE(((So to answer your question, no, I have not entered a car for judging.)))QUOTE../



Thanks

Last edited by Mitch//pa; 07-10-2016 at 09:37 AM.
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Old 07-10-2016, 09:25 AM   #39
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Default Re: The best Model A I have ever seen!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kevin in NJ View Post
Lots of trophy's, but will it run 60 like a factory car?
Do the brakes work?

AACA shows are not skin deep dog and pony shows...The cars must also run like a watch and be fully functional... Down to every light and feature as they came off the line.
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Old 07-10-2016, 11:04 AM   #40
Kevin in NJ
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Default Re: The best Model A I have ever seen!

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QUOTE(((So to answer your question, no, I have not entered a car for judging.)))QUOTE../



Thanks
Please explain how my never had a car judged means I do not know the process?

In the last 45 years have studied the AACA judging materials to understand what they required. At one point I was going to get certified until I helped out some at shows. I never wanted to be involved after I started getting some experience.

I think it is pretty clear I have a clue when it comes to the Model A and car restorations in general. I have looked very close at cars (all makes, but Mustang, Model A and 36 Ford) both and good and bad with AACA and Model A club. From this I was able to form some good ideas about what seems to be important to the judges.
I have seen AACA National Senior awards on cars with all hardware store bolts for fasteners. I have seen clearly under restored cars and cars with no chassis restoration (obviously worn parts) with AACA National Seniors. I have also observed many cars with obviously incorrect finishes and restoration techniques.

Please explain how this happens?
Please explain how I am not qualified to make those observations because I have never had a car judged?

So please tell me how why I should not question what goes on with the AACA judging process?
Why am I not qualified to make some conclusions about the quality of a restoration or how AACA does its judging?
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