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Old 03-29-2016, 07:22 PM   #1
lucky_stripe_garage
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Default My 1930 Model A

So I officially own a 1930 Model A sedan. Got to bring it home this past weekend. Took some time off of work and spent the weekend figuring out the previous owners garage engineering to be able to get the car out of its hiding spot. It was parked there in 1976-79 and has sat ever since. So it got to see the sun for the first time since then. It took us a few hours, but it was completely worth every second. His family was very emotional, but was happy to see that the car was going to be running again as the old man had wanted before he passed away. I also came away with a truck load of extra parts, some new, but most old and had been replaced already. I have plenty to keep me busy for a few months trying to sort through everything and figure out where he left off. Any tips on getting the motor running again would be greatly appreciated. Thanks.
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Old 03-29-2016, 07:50 PM   #2
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Default Re: My 1930 Model A

cool uncovering one that's been cooped up a while! Don't get in a hurry to start up till fluids are changed/checked, wiring and all is checked out and all is safe for start up. By the looks of it there will need to be some work to make roadable but you have the guys here on the barn to guide you.

Every year our Missouri Valley group does a start up... we take a car that hasn't run in many years... last years was an easy one ( link below), but we have done some that needed pistons, etc and get them going in a couple of hours.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sWe8Ex_aWTI


I would bet a few hours and it's running. get hooked up with some local A guys.
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Old 03-30-2016, 05:48 AM   #3
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Default Re: My 1930 Model A

Welcome to the family of Model A owners - What a great find!

If you don't have a copy already, it would be a good first reference book to purchase - Model A Ford Mechanics Handbood by Les Andrews

My first step would be to drop and clean the oil pan. There is a windage tray that does not drain during a regular oil change. There's no telling what has collected there since the last oil service.

While you're dropping the pan, remove the spark plugs and put a couple of tablespoons of ATF or Marvel Mystery Oil to help loosen stuck rings/pistons.

Remove the valve cover and clean out any debris that may be collected in there.

You may find everything clean as a whistle but knowing is always better than not knowing.
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Old 03-30-2016, 09:02 AM   #4
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Default Re: My 1930 Model A

After speaking with the previous owners brother-in-law, he stated that the engine was rebuilt, but never ran after the rebuilding. I'll pull the oil drain plug and see what I find there. Is there any preference to which head gasket I should use after I pull the head to do that inspection? Also, here's a few more pics from Saturday.
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Old 03-30-2016, 09:27 AM   #5
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Default Re: My 1930 Model A

I would remove the plugs and pour some ATF down each cylinder, let it set for a bit, then hand crank the engine. If you can't hand crank it then I'd pull the head, otherwise I'd spin it over with the starter, then put the plugs back in and try to start it.

If you pull the head, the gasket may not need to be changed since it was never run and never retorqued. I'd spray both sides with Copper Coat and reuse it, but wouldn't pull the head unless there was a real need to.
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Old 03-30-2016, 10:12 AM   #6
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Default Re: My 1930 Model A

Quote:
wouldn't pull the head unless there was a real need to.
Ditto
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Old 03-30-2016, 10:35 AM   #7
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Default Re: My 1930 Model A

How fun! The car trailer picture still looks very familiar to me as I've only had my coupe for a couple of months. I don't remember how many times I was startled to see that radiator shell in my rear view mirror on my 120 mile drive home. Take some video of the engine starting and post it on youtube if you can, that's so fun to see!
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Old 03-30-2016, 10:48 AM   #8
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I plan on taking that video Art, I'll just have to figure out how to post videos on YouTube. We had almost 400 miles driving home. I'm sure my wife was annoyed by the end of it with all my comments about the car that was tailgating us. My oldest daughter (10 years old) is already trying to say that she's gonna be driving this after she gets her license. We were wearing t-shirts by the end of the day Saturday, then woke up Sunday to snow. So many first for this car already. Haha
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Old 03-30-2016, 12:14 PM   #9
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Default Re: My 1930 Model A

Wait a minute.............you brought home the wrong car.
Look at the second picture, that's a right hand drive car.
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Old 03-30-2016, 12:17 PM   #10
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It must be a rare model that can switch between RHD and LHD. ��
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Old 03-30-2016, 12:25 PM   #11
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Default Re: My 1930 Model A

It's all in your point of view
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Old 03-30-2016, 02:06 PM   #12
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Default Re: My 1930 Model A

One heck of a find --one GIANT EXTRACTION, for the Model A Hobby!
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Old 03-30-2016, 02:11 PM   #13
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Lucky stripe where in Texas are you?
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Old 03-30-2016, 02:32 PM   #14
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Just North of Dallas. Also, here's a pic of the engine.
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Old 03-30-2016, 02:59 PM   #15
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Default Re: My 1930 Model A

You say you got a lot of extra parts,some new,and some that had already been replaced.Save them all.You are going to find that a lot of the replaced parts are junk,and you are better off with the stuff that was taken off.It's not so bad now,but a lot of the stuff from the 60's and 70's was worse than a worn out original part.
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Old 03-30-2016, 03:04 PM   #16
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Default Re: My 1930 Model A

When we were trying to get the wall out of the way, the brother-in-law came inside and said, "You see all these boxes of parts? You're taking them all." we ended up filling 4 of the 18 gallon sterilite tubs, as well as having parts loaded into the model a, extra bumpers, a steering column and rear end tied down to the trailer. Some of it does not go to the A, and some isn't even Ford. My wife got worried that we weren't going to have enough room for everything.
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Old 03-30-2016, 03:36 PM   #17
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That's awesome. Congrats.
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Old 03-30-2016, 03:45 PM   #18
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Default Re: My 1930 Model A

You did bring an empty tow vehicle didn't you?

That's awesome that they wanted you to have every little bit of what might or might not belong.
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Old 03-30-2016, 03:47 PM   #19
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It was mostly empty minus the family and our couple of bags.
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Old 03-30-2016, 03:48 PM   #20
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your first Model A is a once in a lifetime experience. Once it is running good and safe keep it on the road as much as possible. Get as many friends and relatives as possible involved. Let every old guy in town get behind the wheel. In other words enjoy the heck out of it. Wayne

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Old 03-30-2016, 06:48 PM   #21
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Default Re: My 1930 Model A

Welcome to the hobby and you got an absolutely beautiful car there. I don't know how informed you are about Model a's but here is what I see:

1) Great Car for starters
2) Double check the goose neck where the water comes out of the block-it may be a 29.
3) You may want to check the fan VERY carefully if not replace it with a brand new aluminum one from Snyders. The older fans have a tendency to come apart and leave holes in things like the radiator, hood and or your head.

Again Welcome,

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Old 03-30-2016, 07:23 PM   #22
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Thanks Mike. What do I need to check for on the gooseneck? Looking at the engine number and the MAFCA it seemed as though it was built in June of 1930. But I could be completely off. What should I be checking on the fan? I'm not well versed in model a's. But am looking forward to learning everything I can. Thanks again.
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Old 03-30-2016, 08:45 PM   #23
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Default Re: My 1930 Model A

The water outlet is shorter on the 1928-9 than the 1930-1 Model A, so the top hose would be a bit longer to reach. The top hose does look a bit longer than stock, and that also had me wondering.

Back in reply #8 I can see your daughter is already enjoying "her" new car.
I'm wondering what those two knobs are forward from her hand and along the window?
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Old 03-30-2016, 08:49 PM   #24
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The two "knobs" are actually just the screws that hold the trim on. The trim was in the back seat. Are the waternecks interchanable? It looks like he just got bulk radiator hose and just may have put the whole piece on so he didn't have to cut it. I can always remove it and check.
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Old 03-30-2016, 09:37 PM   #25
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Here's a link to a good thread on water outlets, giving dimensions and showing pictures.

http://www.fordbarn.com/forum/showth...er+outlet+1928
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Old 03-31-2016, 10:27 AM   #26
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The fans will get small little cracks at the base which develop due to vibration. Usually it is the two blade fan that comes apart but I have seen pics of 4 blade truck fans coming apart. Inspect it and if you don't see any cracks great but just be careful and don't line yourself up in the line fire so to speak. Or just replace it with a new one.

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Old 03-31-2016, 10:44 AM   #27
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Thanks Mike. I'll be sure to check on that. And the aluminum fan from Snyder's isn't too expensive.
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Old 03-31-2016, 03:51 PM   #28
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Tom and Mike,

I removed the upper hose and checked the length of the water neck. I measured it based on the like that Tom posted and it measures right at 5 3/8".
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Old 03-31-2016, 05:29 PM   #29
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Looks like a 28-29 to me. I am at work so cannot measure the one on my car. No big deal to replace, make sure you have a flat clean surface and torque evenly as the ears can crack. I used a piece of grocery bag for a gasket if I remember correctly. It will work as is, I was just pointing it out so that when you get a chance if you want you can replace that is all.

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Old 04-02-2016, 06:10 PM   #30
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Today has been productive, and slightly frustrating. Went and picked up a battery last night. Getting it installed required a longer ground strap since the posts are on opposite sides of the top.

I believe that Mike is correct in that the water neck is for a 28-29. Cutting the radiator hose to the correct length for a 30 made it too short for my car.

I pulled the plugs and the tops of the Pistons looked nice and clean. Poured some mystery oil in each cylinder and let that soak. When I pulled the oil plug it did have oil in it. It was surprisingly still pretty clear too. Refilled the oil. I was able to turn the engine over by hand easily. Tried to bump the starter and it didn't engage the flywheel. So that came off. Sprayed it down with some WD40 to clean off the grime and got the gear moving freely. Wiped it down and coated the shaft with a very light coating of the mystery oil to keep it clean. Re-installed and it's not engaging the engine.

Re-installed the spark plugs and had my daughter help me bump the starter again while I checked to make sure the distributor was producing a spark for all four cylinders.


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Old 04-04-2016, 02:20 PM   #31
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It's alive!!!


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Old 04-04-2016, 02:21 PM   #32
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Old 04-04-2016, 06:04 PM   #33
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Congratulations! At least she fired up for a few seconds. Son you will have her running for hours on end.

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Old 04-04-2016, 06:27 PM   #34
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Thanks for sharing the video
Sounded like a model A to me.
How long since it last ran?
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Old 04-04-2016, 06:49 PM   #35
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It's been since 1976-1977 since she last ran. I've got to clean out the fuel tank so I have a remote tank rigged up. It's hard to hold that and start the car by myself. But she's running as long as she's got gas. Now let's get the lights and other electrical straightened out.


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Old 04-04-2016, 08:25 PM   #36
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Here's a little bit longer video. RPM's are high. It struggles a little at lower RPMs. Didn't leave it running too long since it doesn't have the proper coolant.

The monks are still in Nepal letting the glaciers thaw before distilling it for me. Might be a little while. Haha.



URL]https://vimeo.com/161561895[/URL]


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Old 04-05-2016, 12:01 AM   #37
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Old 04-05-2016, 06:28 AM   #38
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Suggest you remove that air filter and try her again. Those filters often contribute to poor engine behaviors such as you're reporting. These cars came from the factory without an air filter in an era when there was a lot more debris on the "roads".

Most of us don't use an air filter for various reasons, especially that style. It can soak up gasoline that drips out of the carb. Kinda like driving around with a fire waiting to happen.

I noticed that you mentioned the need for "proper coolant." Plain water will work fine as long as air temps are above freezing....otherwise the usual 50/50 mix of antifreeze and water will do the trick.

Have fun with your A - it looks really nice!
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Old 04-05-2016, 01:01 PM   #39
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Stay in touch. I'm doing the same things to a 31.
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Old 04-07-2016, 02:31 PM   #40
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So looking through searches, pictures, and other sites I have to ask....

How many wires should be connected to the starter? From what I can tell it's just one that goes to the junction block on the firewall. Then a wire goes from there to the generator. Correct??

For some reason mine has two. One goes to the junction block. The second goes up by the generator.





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Old 04-07-2016, 03:05 PM   #41
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Wow, this is amazing! What a time capsule! Looks like all it needs is a fluid change and tires!!!
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Old 04-07-2016, 03:31 PM   #42
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Yeah, there should only be one wire going to the starter.
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Old 04-07-2016, 03:40 PM   #43
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So the headlight wires should be connected to the same terminal on the generator wire from the junction block?


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Old 04-07-2016, 03:42 PM   #44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lucky_stripe_garage View Post
So looking through searches, pictures, and other sites I have to ask....

How many wires should be connected to the starter? From what I can tell it's just one that goes to the junction block on the firewall. Then a wire goes from there to the generator. Correct??

For some reason mine has two. One goes to the junction block. The second goes up by the generator.





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There should be one wire from the starter switch to the terminal box stud, then one wire from the other terminal box stud to the generator. You have a couple extra wires showing and I can't see where they go.

I see you have the DELUX drain cock with the large B for a handle.

I would remove the 2 starter switch nuts and wires, then install one nut, then the wires and the second nut. The way it is the battery cable can almost touch ground.
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Old 04-07-2016, 03:48 PM   #45
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The red wire goes to the terminal box stud. The white wire goes up and is the loose wire by the generator in the second picture. The blue wire goes back to the tail light.


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Old 04-07-2016, 03:57 PM   #46
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I'm not sure why the blue wire is run where it is, but the white wire to nowhere can be removed.
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Old 04-07-2016, 04:12 PM   #47
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You're guess is as good as mine on the blue wire. I removed it so I can route it correctly, as well as the white wire to nowhere.



Does this look more correct?


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Old 04-07-2016, 07:05 PM   #48
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Well my lights won't be working for a little bit. Seems as though the light switch body broke when a previous owner had it. It was rigged together by someone. Well the tabs inside the housing broke off so it won't rotate the switch.




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Old 04-07-2016, 07:29 PM   #49
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I'd call Bert's for a good original switch, and check to see if you also need a new light harness.

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Old 04-08-2016, 07:25 AM   #50
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Look up Deuce Fordor on here. I think they have some complete originals to sell. I bought one off of them a few weeks ago.
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Old 04-08-2016, 08:12 AM   #51
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Default Re: My 1930 Model A

I sure don't like the looks of your battery cable-it looks like a cheap 12v cable-As strange as it might seem, 6v cables must be much thicker and heavier than 12v cables. Your ground cable should be a wide woven strap,too.
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Old 04-08-2016, 09:53 AM   #52
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Lucky Stripe, your adventure on this '30 brings back memories of myself bringing mine home on the trailer. I was like a dream come true. I'd ridden in Model A's as a child but had never driven one. Mine was a basket case, but 2-1/2 years later I had completely restored it and Miss Tillie is now a part of the family. I'm now teaching my 3 sons and 2 20 yr old grandsons how to drive it. Congratulations on your new family member.
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Old 04-08-2016, 10:39 AM   #53
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Originally Posted by Tom Wesenberg View Post
I would remove the plugs and pour some ATF down each cylinder, let it set for a bit, then hand crank the engine. If you can't hand crank it then I'd pull the head, otherwise I'd spin it over with the starter, then put the plugs back in and try to start it.

If you pull the head, the gasket may not need to be changed since it was never run and never retorqued. I'd spray both sides with Copper Coat and reuse it, but wouldn't pull the head unless there was a real need to.
Never re-use a removed head gasket once it has been torqued down .
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Old 04-08-2016, 11:01 AM   #54
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I plan on upgrading the battery cables while I'm working on all of the wiring. Just using what I had in place already for now.

Beautiful car bobpo1. I'm hoping to keep this one in the family for a long time. My grandfather and great grandfather were Ford guys and I caught the bug from them. I think they'd be proud of my car.

I ended up not having to remove the head. Pulled the plugs and was able to see that everything was "clean" and there was no debris inside.


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Old 04-10-2016, 04:54 PM   #55
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Since I'm waiting on $$ and parts to continue on my A, I have some time to do some reading. I think I still have another box in storage full. These also came with my purchase of the car. I believe I should have every issue from 1974 till 2012 maybe more.




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Old 04-11-2016, 10:56 AM   #56
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Default Re: My 1930 Model A

Quote:
Never re-use a removed head gasket once it has been torqued down .
Although it's not advised to re-use a head gasket, it can be and has been done. I was taught many years ago, when $s were short, to clean the gasket, head and block really good, inspect the gasket and if it's not damaged put it in the oven at 350ļ F for a 1/2 hour or so, remove and let it cool before installing. Have done that numerous times w/out problems.
Nowadays one could use the BBQ rather than the oven.
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Old 04-19-2016, 09:17 PM   #57
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Just got in the new wire harness and light switch body. Is it really this easy to install??


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Old 04-19-2016, 09:36 PM   #58
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Default Re: My 1930 Model A

It's not a bad job. The first thing to do is slip the light switch cover onto the new harness, then snap the cover to the body and hook the boil wire over the switch to hold it in place. Then lay out the wires, and thread the new wires through the radiator shell holes. I like to stick the wires through the shell holes, then install the rubber hole grommets, then the conduits, then the plastic or bakelite insulators that hold the wire terminals. I like the stock arrangement, so if you splice inside the buckets, you'll have to figure out that part.
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Old 04-20-2016, 09:49 AM   #59
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DON'T EVER RE-USE A HEAD GASKET!! Would you take a bath, & put on DIRTY SKIVIES?? (YUK!)
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Old 04-20-2016, 07:29 PM   #60
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Don't worry Bill, I wont. I'm sure my grandfather would find a way to slap me from his grave if I did.

So I got the wires ran, roughly, through the car last night. The headlight wiring was messed with before and is badly cracked. That will be remedied before those are connected. Since I knew the wires for the taillight were in decent shape, I started there.

I connected the two wires to the brake light switch, and the two at the light. I connected the harness to the cutout on the generator. No luck. I tested the bulb and it works fine. So I disconnected the harness from the generator. When touching it directly to the starter, the taillight, and brake light work perfectly, (well almost, the brake light switch sticks a little).

So what am I missing?
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Old 04-20-2016, 07:36 PM   #61
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Do you have the main power wire connected to the starter terminal?
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Old 04-20-2016, 07:44 PM   #62
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Art - I have the main power wire connected from the starter terminal and going to the terminal box on the firewall. Then the white wire from the terminal box down to the generator cutout. The dash wiring is connected as well.
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Old 04-20-2016, 07:51 PM   #63
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Default Re: My 1930 Model A

If you have it wired correctly then check the connectors on each wire....the circuit is broken somewhere..
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Old 04-20-2016, 08:23 PM   #64
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Maybe a dud amp meter?
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Old 04-20-2016, 08:37 PM   #65
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Do you have a volt meter?

With the battery hooked up, you should have battery voltage at both lugs/thumbscrews on the junction box, when individually tested to ground, and the same voltage should be at the front lug of the cut-out, when tested to ground....

If you begin at where the battery cable connects to the starter, and test to ground, you should show battery voltage...then move to the passenger side lug on the junction box..then to the drivers side, then to the cut-out..all should read the same voltage..
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Old 04-20-2016, 09:50 PM   #66
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I should have a volt meter. Still unpacking the garage so it may be hidden.

I spent a couple of quick minutes out at the garage when I got home and just connected the two wires from the amp meter together. I believe it is no good. The tail light worked perfectly (minus the sticky break switch).


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Old 04-21-2016, 05:07 AM   #67
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I worked on a 1931 with a sticking brake switch. The switch plunger rod was rubbing on the frame hole, so all I had to do is loosen the two mounting bolts and center the switch.

Very few ammeters actually fail to carry current, but I do see loose and corroded connections both on the meter studs and the terminal box studs.
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Old 04-22-2016, 04:55 PM   #68
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I'm currently working on getting everything wired up. I found my volt meter and checked the voltage at all the locations that 1955cj5 said, and I'm getting 6.15V +/-. I even went so far as to check the wire ends and I'm getting the same readings there as well. That being said, the headlights and driving lights won't come on.

I put the bulbs in a separate pig tail and touched the wires to the post on the starter and grounded it and they work fine. But connected to the headlight wires is a no go.


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Old 04-22-2016, 06:33 PM   #69
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Cancel that. I finished rebuilding the headlight sockets and got everything hooked up and I have lights. The drivers light is noticeably dimmer than the passenger. But all 4 bulbs are working as designed. Now to troubleshoot the horn.


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Old 04-22-2016, 09:11 PM   #70
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Here's the headlight sockets and the previous wiring.



And here's the socket after putting in new wiring with contacts.




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Old 04-22-2016, 10:37 PM   #71
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If you have a lamp that is dim on one side only, the first thing I'd check is the ground for that socket.
A poor ground can make the current run through both filaments in series, which results in a dim light.
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Old 04-22-2016, 10:50 PM   #72
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With all the wires going back to the switch body, how are these grounded?


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Old 04-22-2016, 11:11 PM   #73
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Default Re: My 1930 Model A

Through the headlamp bowl to the headlight bracket to fender bracket to frame... 8^)
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Old 04-22-2016, 11:13 PM   #74
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The headlamp socket is grounded through the spring and focus adjusting screw to the bucket. The bucket is grounded through the mounting bolt to the headlamp bar. The bar is grounded through the fender and mount to the frame. I've never cleaned the mounting points on my 28, but have applied grease to the threads, and the headlamps are well grounded.
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Old 05-08-2016, 08:41 PM   #75
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Finally got a chance to go out and troubleshoot the lights. Got the headlight mounting bolts and inside the buckets cleaned up. The lights work great now.


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Old 05-08-2016, 08:46 PM   #76
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I took apart and cleaned and tested the horn. It works on the bench. I cleaned the contact at the end of the horn wire, and even took apart the horn button and cleaned that contact, but no luck when pressing the button. Any tips or ideas??


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Old 05-08-2016, 10:43 PM   #77
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My horn button didn't work well when I first bought my 28. This was due to non use for months or years, so I pressed the button and gave it a rolling action as I pressed it. This cleaned the contact area and made the horn work like it should.
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Old 05-19-2016, 07:30 PM   #78
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Is it possible to remove the gas tank without having to remove the windshield? There's a lot of rust in the current tank and I decided to look at the extra tank that I got with the car and it looks super clean.


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Old 05-20-2016, 12:51 PM   #79
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I don't think so, I think it has to come to clear. I could very well be wrong though.

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Old 05-20-2016, 12:55 PM   #80
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Thanks Mike. I've read a lot of posts that talk about all the screws and clips for the chrome trim etc. but I haven't seen any that say for sure if it has to come out.


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Old 05-20-2016, 10:57 PM   #81
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So while out draining the vinegar from the gas tank I noticed that the paint on the underside was starting to bubble in a few spots. So the tank had to come out.



And....a couple of hours of working and hunting down all of the different screws etc. it's out. Now to prep the spare tank and get it installed.



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Old 05-24-2016, 01:51 PM   #82
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I got everything reinstalled. Well, mostly, I still have to install the windshield. Doesn't look too bad considering.


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Old 06-04-2016, 07:31 PM   #83
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So got everything buttoned up today, minus the hood. Decided to take it for its maiden voyage around the parking lot real quick. It still doesn't like the lower RPMs. But it's alive.


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Old 06-05-2016, 03:40 PM   #84
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Trying to get my horn working correctly. I've removed the horn button and cleaned every contact. If I connect the wires one way the horn continuously sounds. (So I loosened the screw on the diaphragm to keep the noise down some.) But if I connect the wires the other way the horn won't sound at all. Any ideas?

As always thank you for all of the help.


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Old 06-05-2016, 06:40 PM   #85
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lucky_stripe_garage View Post
Trying to get my horn working correctly. I've removed the horn button and cleaned every contact. If I connect the wires one way the horn continuously sounds. (So I loosened the screw on the diaphragm to keep the noise down some.) But if I connect the wires the other way the horn won't sound at all. Any ideas?

As always thank you for all of the help.


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Do you have a picture of your horn? It sounds like an aftermarket horn that grounds through the body, rather than by the horn button. You may need to use a relay to send power to the horn, or you could wire up a separate horn button, like a door bell button.
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Old 06-05-2016, 06:42 PM   #86
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Tom -

I can go down and take a few pictures when I get back him. The wires that come out of the horn don't match the wires from the harness.


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Old 06-05-2016, 07:24 PM   #87
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Here's a few pictures. If there's anything else that would help identify it just let me know.








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Old 06-05-2016, 08:07 PM   #88
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You know, that looks just like one my brother had in the 60's while in high school..is it 12 volt?

I don't have an original horn either...
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Old 06-05-2016, 08:09 PM   #89
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Not sure. How would I check if it's 12v or 6v? It's what came with the car. It was in the back seat when we pulled it out of the garage.


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Old 06-05-2016, 08:16 PM   #90
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Good question...I guess it isn't marked.......I suppose a 12v horn would be pretty sluggish when connected to 6v, and a 6v horn would be really loud if connected to 12v....??

There are several similar horns on ebay...Maybe it's a Hutchins?

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Vintage-12-V...NXRtvF&vxp=mtr
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Old 06-05-2016, 08:38 PM   #91
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It's pretty loud when it works. But then again I'm usually right next to it when it goes off. Haha. There's no tags on it.


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Old 06-05-2016, 08:43 PM   #92
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My guess is repo 12v. horn.

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Old 06-05-2016, 09:07 PM   #93
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They are pretty simple...an electric motor with a ratchet sort of disc that hits raised portions of the diaphragm..

If you take it apart you might find a maker's mark inside....and just a good cleaning of the commutator may help
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Old 06-05-2016, 09:18 PM   #94
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So, would the wire that makes it sound when connected be the power and the other be the ground if it is a 12v horn??


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Old 06-05-2016, 09:21 PM   #95
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l suspect that it is a repro sold by JC Whitney, Western Auto, Sears, etc. None of the original horns had a bright bell, they were all black.

As to the voltage, even the new 12v Spartan horns that A&L sells are marked 6 volts. The one I bought came with a slip of paper saying that even though it was marked 6v, it was really 12v. They only make the ID tags that say 6v.
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Old 06-05-2016, 09:22 PM   #96
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That is a Hutchins horn from the 60's or 70's, made in St. Charles, MO.
They came in 6 or 12 volts. One wire is hot, the other is ground. I've had a couple of them. They work and sound OK - for a repro horn.
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Old 06-06-2016, 04:44 AM   #97
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I would remove the cover and see where the wires go. You can also use an ohm meter to see if either wire goes to ground. Connect an ohm meter, or continuity tester to one wire and the horn body to see it there is any continuity. There shouldn't be if you want to wire it as original with the horn button doing the grounding for the horn.

My 29 Tudor had the same 6 volt Hutchins horn and it sounded great. It just doesn't look right, so I sold it on ebay and used the money to buy an original horn.
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Old 06-07-2016, 09:43 PM   #98
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New problem. Most of the weekend the A started. It got easier every time I started her up. It developed a small fuel leak right after the sediment bowl, which has since been fixed. I ran the car to get the last bit of gas out of the fuel like after that to minimize the gas on the floor. After it died the first time I tried to restart it and it wouldn't even crank. It sounds like I'm just bumping the starter, but I have the starter butting pressed.

I pulled the starter off this evening after work pulled everything apart and cleaned it all up. Lubed up the starter drive and shaft. Reinstalled everything and it's still doing the same thing.

The battery is still fully charged, it will crank by hand. (I've never been able to start it by hand though.) So, I'm not sure what else to check.

Thanks as always.


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Old 06-07-2016, 09:56 PM   #99
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You might try taking the starter switch apart if you haven't already and cleaning the copper contacts...

I replaced most of the inner parts on mine...second picture
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Old 06-07-2016, 09:58 PM   #100
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I did do that while I had everything off. I tried to eliminate as many things from the starter as I could.


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Old 06-07-2016, 10:01 PM   #101
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Then check the cable connections at the battery, or the cable itself, and also check the battery ground connection...a connection that may carry enough power to run the lights may not carry the amperage needed to crank the starter..

Of course you may have already done this, you seem pretty thorough!
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Old 06-07-2016, 10:05 PM   #102
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I'm trying to be as thorough as I can be. I'm learning all of this as I go, so I'm wanting to make sure it's done right. I spend a lot of my free time, and down time at work, reading and searching the barn for answers and tips to help me out.

I'll make sure and check the battery cables when I get out there tomorrow evening.


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Old 06-07-2016, 10:18 PM   #103
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Just for safetys sake, I added and auxilirary ground cable to my three cars. Where the ground strap bolts to the frame, I used a longer brass bolt and put the new cable from it to the bell housing. This was done to prevent problems, not because of a problem, I want to be clear about that. But while listening to the starters spin, I'd swear now it has a higher cranking speed. Not much, but a little higher.
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Old 06-07-2016, 10:25 PM   #104
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Terry,

Where does the ground strap bolt to the frame? Mine was bolted to the transmission.


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Old 06-07-2016, 10:29 PM   #105
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Make sure you have 6V battery cables. They are bigger and thicker than 12V cables. And they carry a bigger amp load than 12 V cables. And make sure your connections are CLEAN, BRIGHT, and TIGHT! Old dirty connections make any car tough to start and charge. It's especially true of any 6V systems. Good Luck!
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I'm trying to be as thorough as I can be. I'm learning all of this as I go, so I'm wanting to make sure it's done right. I spend a lot of my free time, and down time at work, reading and searching the barn for answers and tips to help me out.

I'll make sure and check the battery cables when I get out there tomorrow evening.


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Old 06-07-2016, 10:37 PM   #106
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OK someone beat me to it! Trans, Bell housing, engine, starter bolt, it doesn't really matter which one just so you're getting a good ground to the engine. My ground strap is bolted to the frame, next to the battery. Not really the best place for an electrical connection.
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Terry,

Where does the ground strap bolt to the frame? Mine was bolted to the transmission.


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Old 06-07-2016, 10:39 PM   #107
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Oh ok. I didn't know if this was correct or not. Just reusing what the previous owner had used until I could get everything figured out.


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Old 06-08-2016, 08:15 PM   #108
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Thinking out loud a little. If the battery connections are solid, and I remove the switch from the starter. If I touch the negative cable to the contact on the starter, would that help me narrow it down to a starter vs switch problem??


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Old 06-08-2016, 08:31 PM   #109
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[QUOTE=lucky_stripe_garage;1306183]Thinking out loud a little. If the battery connections are solid, and I remove the switch from the starter. If I touch the negative cable to the contact on the starter, would that help me narrow it down to a starter vs switch problem??


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Yes.
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Old 06-14-2016, 06:29 PM   #110
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So it's definitely the starter. Time for a rebuild.


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Old 08-02-2016, 07:45 AM   #111
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Sorry it's been awhile since I've been able to go out to the garage and work on my A. The starter is still not working but, on a good note, I found an oval speedometer in one of the many boxes of parts I got out of the previous owners shop. Most of the numbers are missing off of the odometer and trip meter. I found all the stuff that needs to be replaced from Bert's. My only question is, what lubricant should I use on the gears inside the speedometer? I've read everything from the mystery oil, 3 in 1, graphite, and just WD-40. Just curious of what would be the best option. As always, Thank you for your help.
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Old 08-02-2016, 09:40 AM   #112
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I put a drop of motor oil on each gear and shaft end bushing, then I use a toothpick and also add a dab of Mystik JT-6 at each part. My speedometer has been working perfectly since I did this in the early 90's.

WD-40 dries up and won't be a good lubricant. I also wouldn't use it around pot metal.
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Old 08-02-2016, 10:14 PM   #113
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Thanks Tom. I'll give that a try. Just ordered the needed pieces today. This should be a fun little project this weekend.


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Old 08-03-2016, 08:25 AM   #114
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I'd recommend an auxiliary ground cable. I regard the Mod A as having a sort of hit or miss grounding. I realize that if your starter doesn't crank the engine, another cable is probably not going to fix it. This will help good starter be better. Since adding this to one of my cars, I felt the advantage in higher cranking speed was enough to put it on the the other two cars. I merely made a short cable to connect with the same frame flange and bolt that the normal ground attaches to and connected the other end to a bell housing bolt. Maybe a one hour investment in time.
Terry
Sorry, I didn't remember that I had already stated this. But I will say this, The Mod A's normal ground strap connects to the frame flange, not the transmission.

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Old 08-03-2016, 01:12 PM   #115
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So since I will be rebuilding the speedometer this weekend, I had a couple of questions.

When I got the car, there was no speedometer and the dash would have used the round speedometer. I have had to change the tank, and the spare tank that came with the car uses the oval speedometer. So, I have no idea what the actual mileage is for my car. I know the previous owner rebuilt the engine, but I'm unsure how many miles he put on the car before he parked it.

Should I reset the odometer to "00000" and just log the miles that I put on the car, or should I make sure the odometer reads what it did as I found it?

Looks like the odometer had "68948" Miles on it.
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Old 08-03-2016, 04:32 PM   #116
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I would just set it to all zeros since the actual milage is unknown.
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Old 08-03-2016, 04:48 PM   #117
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No telling if that mileage was original, so when I had mine refurbished recently, I had it set to zero. I have not notified my insurance company about it, but if they ask for annual mileage I can show them what was done and report accurately as to how many miles i have on my pickup at that time. It is a personal choice, but to me, the original mileage was just guess work in looking at the odometer before I had it refurbished. Mine is a daily driver, so I had not problems with asking it to be reset to zero, myself.
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Old 10-22-2016, 08:42 PM   #118
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So I finally had a little time, and $$, to get some of the parts needed to work on my A some more. I found the emergency/parking brake handle in one of the tubs of parts I got from the previous owners wife. So, I figured I would try and get the emergency brakes connected. I had to purchase all new brake rods. My issue is that I believe the previous owner put later model radius rods on the car. Not sure of the year or anything, but it won't allow me to connect the e-brake levers.




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Old 10-22-2016, 09:23 PM   #119
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The radius rods and backing plates look like early 28 that didn't have the separate emergency brake.
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Old 10-23-2016, 06:29 AM   #120
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That rear radius rod is for sure early 1928 which had the single brake system . You pulled on the handbrake which set all brakes front and rear .This system was illegal in most of Europe and some USA states as they required a separate emergency brake . This forced Ford to bring out an emergency brake which was separate from the service brake . It is easy for you to install the correct rods ,they come in two styles one has forged ends the other flat steel plate either will work just fine . Early 30 had the forged ends .The radius rods you have are fairly rare and you can easily sell them and buy the correct ones and have enough change over for a visit to Texas Steak House !!!
Looks like you also need an emergency brake carrier ,get ones with the "ears" on .Someone on the Barn will post a pic of the difference . The ones with ears locate the emergency brake band better .

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Old 10-23-2016, 02:37 PM   #121
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So if I leave these radius rods what cross shaft do I need to find? My e-brake handle mounts to the passenger side of the transmission.


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Old 10-23-2016, 07:01 PM   #122
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I'd be looking for the correct parts for your 1930, then restore the rear end and brakes so you can do a quick easy swap. You can then sell your other rear end. I'd also consider using a 3.27 ring and pinion during the rebuild.
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Old 10-23-2016, 07:35 PM   #123
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I'd be looking for the correct parts for your 1930, then restore the rear end and brakes so you can do a quick easy swap. You can then sell your other rear end. I'd also consider using a 3.27 ring and pinion during the rebuild.


I know I got part of an extra rear end (mostly all internals) when I purchased the car. How would I know what gears he has installed and what is on the extra piece? Also what would be a reasonable price to pay for a complete rear end that needs to be rebuilt?

Thanks everyone for all of the help.


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Old 10-23-2016, 07:48 PM   #124
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I've seen complete rear ends with drums anywhere from free to about $150 most times. My spare rear end was given to me for helping a club member move some of his just purchased parts. It came from a 1930 Coupe being rodded, so I'm hoping it will be pretty good inside.
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Old 10-23-2016, 08:09 PM   #125
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I hope to be going to the next meeting for the Dallas club in November. This will be the first time I've been off on a Sunday in several years.


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Old 01-03-2017, 09:05 AM   #126
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To start I hope everyone had a great holiday with their families and that 2017 is starting off well.

I found a great set of rear radius rods in the classified section of the barn. Thanks Lloyd. Going to get them sanded down and painted before installing, but I'll have to wait for temps to get a little warmer for the paint part.



So I went back to troubleshooting my starter problem/rebuild. I was finally able to remove the field coils. I went over to a buddies shop and he got out his torches. Got the screws nice and red and they backed right out. I sandblasted the case and have it in primer now, again waiting on a warm day to paint.


When I went to solder on the brushes I noticed that the coils were pre bent, and both sets done the same way. Are these easy to re-curve the opposite direction? Any tips on how to do this without causing damage?






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Old 01-03-2017, 11:39 AM   #127
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Your field new coils are fine. Don't mess with them.
If you paint the inside of the case, I wouldn't give it more than a very thin coat of paint, because the air gap for the armature to pole shoes is very small, and you want the shoes in close contact to the case.
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Old 01-07-2017, 02:31 PM   #128
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I don't think I explained my issue well in my last post. I did a dry install to show my problem. The parts that get soldered to the contact button ends up on the opposite side of the case after installation. And yes I'll be removing the paint from the inside of the case before I actually get everything installed.




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Old 01-07-2017, 04:13 PM   #129
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It looks like you were sent the wrong coils, at least one of them is wrong. I'd let the seller know and return them for a correct set to match your old ones. Don't even think about recurving them.
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Old 01-07-2017, 04:15 PM   #130
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I emailed Berts today with this picture attached. Hopefully they'll get it first thing Tuesday.


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Old 01-07-2017, 04:33 PM   #131
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Congratulations enjoy
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Old 01-07-2017, 05:16 PM   #132
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lucky stripe,
looks like a nice car. You would profit greatly in your Model A experience if you purchase the 2 Les Andrews mechanic guides...available from either of the Model A clubs, and most vendors.
These manuals are full of clear drawings and explanations for almost any issue you might come across as you learn about your Model A. They are absolutely worth the money spent. Do yourself a favor and get these manuals for your reference.
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Old 03-08-2017, 04:47 PM   #133
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Sorry it's been a little bit since I've updated anything. I've spent the day cleaning the engine compartment and replacing all of the cracked/leaking gaskets. When I pulled the valve cover and got it cleaned up I noticed these two extra holes. Any ideas why they'd be there?


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Old 03-26-2017, 04:37 PM   #134
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Got her running a little better. Adjusted the carb some. It will now idle with the throttle lever all the way up. Before it would have to be at least 1/3 of the way down. Still sounds rough to me.

https://youtu.be/cijEQJ8OesQ


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Old 03-26-2017, 07:38 PM   #135
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I emailed Berts today with this picture attached. Hopefully they'll get it first thing Tuesday.
So what was the outcome with the issue with the field coils?
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Old 03-26-2017, 07:40 PM   #136
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So what was the outcome with the issue with the field coils?


They sent me a new set of field coils. They were here within a couple of days after getting a response from Steve. They really are great to work with there.


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Old 03-26-2017, 07:49 PM   #137
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When I got my engine restored in 1971 the engine was so teit that the poor starter and me trying to hand crank was not good. don't try and do both at the same time. If you try and turn the engine over make sure the plugs are out of it. Welcome and enjoy ya'll have fun. I put my 1929 Town Sedan together and was only 15. I got the car all in pieces.
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Old 05-26-2017, 01:47 AM   #138
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So I've had to do some work since the last time I updated. I was making sure the head bolts were torqued correctly since I was having issues with the coolant bubbling over at 35-40mph, but it wasn't overheating. Read on here that it could be a leaky head gasket. Tried to ensure the head was torqued down properly. Started at 35lbs and snapped one of the last studs. This prompted a head gasket change and decided to change all of the studs while I had the head off so I wouldn't snap anymore.

Went through 3 different stud removers, snapped a total of 4 studs, realized that the first cylinder exhaust valve was bent, not bad but just enough that it wouldn't move smoothly.

Straightened the valve, drilled out the broken studs and replaced them all and got everything back installed. She started up and idled smoother than she ever has since I picked her up. Drove around down (10-15 miles) pulling back into my apartment complex and she died within 20 yards of my garage. I traced everything down, with the help of Jim Cannon, to the distributor cam screw was backing out so it was out of timing. Got it retimed and now the NEW starter that was installed isn't working. I'm able to hand crank the engine and it runs ok, but now I have to pull the starter again to figure out why it's not working.
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Old 05-26-2017, 08:36 AM   #139
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Wow, this has been a great thread to read through. Really great progress and looks like a great car. I can say after getting our A (My wife's grandfathers car) about 5 years ago, there are times when it seems like "it is always something", but keep at it. Take a break now and then and step away, but looks like you are doing awesome, keep up the great work at keeping that great car on the road. Read early on your daughter said she wanted to drive it when she had her license. Teach her sooner then that. My boys both knew how to drive the A well before they were driving age. Good luck with that starter. Not sure how you decided the starter was bad, but maybe it is somewhere else in the system. You were have to mess with the distributor for the cam screw, maybe something in the ignition system is not reconnected properly. If you haven't checked all that first, I would before I tear the starter out again. You seem to be a much better mechanic than I am, so maybe it is no bid deal, but for me, less is always more when it comes to taking stuff apart on my A. Good luck.
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Old 05-26-2017, 10:03 AM   #140
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Regarding the valve chamber cover extra holes. They are probably someone's attempt to vent moisture and crankcase fumes out of that area. In 1931 Ford milled a flat on the distributor shanks to allow fumes to exit.
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Old 05-26-2017, 03:36 PM   #141
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Not sure how you decided the starter was bad, but maybe it is somewhere else in the system. You were have to mess with the distributor for the cam screw, maybe something in the ignition system is not reconnected properly. If you haven't checked all that first, I would before I tear the starter out again. You seem to be a much better mechanic than I am, so maybe it is no bid deal, but for me, less is always more when it comes to taking stuff apart on my A. Good luck.


I figured it had something to do with either the starter or the start switch since I could hand crank it to start no problem. Luckily after working on it today I was just in the switch. One of the insulators had somehow ended up between the two copper contacts. Easy fix and the starter works again. Able to drive around town today with no issues.

I'm not a better mechanic than anyone. I'm learning about this car as I go. I enjoy learning new things and have plenty to learn about these cars. Less is definitely more. Someone on here has a saying in their signature that says "If it ain't broke, fix it until it is." That's pretty much how things have been going on my car. But it's been fun.


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Old 06-11-2017, 04:44 PM   #142
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So I figured out that one side of the paper insulated inside the switch somehow fell between the two copper contacts. Quick fix and my car is easy to start again. Checked the timing and everything again since it seemed to be getting worse after driving. I was able to drive my A about 30 miles round trip to its first car show. A small all Ford show and she won her first award. It was a terrifying experience at speed on some of the roads here in North Dallas, but I'm loving every mile behind the wheel. Still have some bugs to work out, but she's getting more and more reliable everyday.








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Old 06-11-2017, 06:56 PM   #143
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Hey! I like that Blue, what's it called?
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Old 06-11-2017, 07:44 PM   #144
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Hey! I like that Blue, what's it called?
Terry


I wish I knew. I need to do some touch ups. The previous owner painted it in 1975-ish. The gentleman's wife said that he picked it since it was similar to an original color, I believe Hessian Blue. But there's no color on the receipts that I have from when he bought the paint.


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Old 06-12-2017, 08:17 AM   #145
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Congrats Lucky. Looks GREAT! Jeff
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Old 06-12-2017, 11:17 AM   #146
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I think you've got a great car
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Old 07-07-2017, 04:34 PM   #147
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Lots of changes going on in the shop. I'm working on installing a set of Ken Davis shocks so my car will actually have shocks on it now.

I've got a new set of tires since the ones that were on were at least 40 years old and hard as a rock.

While the tires are off I'm gonna have the wheels media blasted and repaint them black since there's a bunch of chips and I'm not sure how to match the blue that the previous owner used.

While I was fixing the head gasket I noticed a crack in one of the ears on the water neck so I ordered a new one and the previous assumptions are correct. I had a 28-29 neck before. Original is on the left, new part on the right.

I have a temperature gauge to install but the holder doesn't line up anywhere close. I may have to Fab something up if I can't exchange the one I got.

I also got a bunch of other miscellaneous parts and hardware to replace or just install because it wasn't there in the first place.


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Old 07-07-2017, 06:12 PM   #148
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It's been fun following this thread especially the first part getting it home. I think it's always exciting with a first time Model A.
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Old 07-07-2017, 06:36 PM   #149
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It's been fun following this thread especially the first part getting it home. I think it's always exciting with a first time Model A.


Thank you. I'm glad you're enjoying it. I'm sure that many people that are new to Model A's will have similar issues that I'm having. I'm trying to document my progress without being too boring, but didn't want to clutter up the forum with a bunch of threads on each individual project.


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Old 07-14-2017, 11:37 PM   #150
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Default My 1930 Model A

Got my wheels media blasted today. I got a coat of paint on a few of them. It just get too darn hot out in the garage during the day here. Have a few more coats to go. We'll see how much I can do in the morning. She's gonna look a lot different with black wheels instead of the blue.




Purchased a new front leaf spring, center bolt, spring clamps and shackles. All parts came in from Bratton's today, so I'll be borrowing a front spreader from a friend and getting that installed this week.


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Old 07-22-2017, 10:30 AM   #151
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I got the new spring installed yesterday, along with new shackles and bushings. And got a coat of color on the last couple of wheels. Hope to get a second coat on all the wheels today.




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Old 07-22-2017, 07:32 PM   #152
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I got one of the tires mounted today. It just got too hot to continue until later this evening. Can't wait to get them all done and see them cleaned up and out in the sun.




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Old 07-22-2017, 08:13 PM   #153
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V

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Old 07-28-2017, 09:58 PM   #154
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So I got all the wheels done and the new tires mounted today. I was able to take it for a short test drive to check out the new front suspension as well with the Ken Davis shocks. Amazing difference. Now to install the rear shocks.

Before



After




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Old 07-28-2017, 10:08 PM   #155
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Default Re: My 1930 Model A

Looks great with the new tires and black wheels...new lug nuts or did you just clean up the old set?
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Old 07-28-2017, 10:09 PM   #156
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Looks great with the new tires and black wheels...new lug nuts or did you just clean up the old set?


Thank you. New lug nuts and washers. The lug nuts I took off were all different.


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Old 08-08-2017, 11:06 AM   #157
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Default Re: My 1930 Model A

Looks great. The black wheels were a great choice!!!!
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Old 08-08-2017, 11:31 PM   #158
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Default Re: My 1930 Model A

Looks better with the black wheels in my opinion. Did you have to cut off the old tires? Nice work!
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Old 08-08-2017, 11:39 PM   #159
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Looks great. The black wheels were a great choice!!!!


Thank you.


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Old 08-08-2017, 11:40 PM   #160
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Looks better with the black wheels in my opinion. Did you have to cut off the old tires? Nice work!


Thank you. I had to cut off two of the old tires. The other 3 are still really soft and not cracked. I'm keeping them for emergency spares.


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Old 05-08-2018, 12:06 PM   #161
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Default My 1930 Model A

So itís been a little bit since Iíve put an update on here. I finally figured out why my battery would always be drained after sitting for a couple of days. There was no insulators on the instrument cluster wiring harness so it was shorting our constantly. I got that fixed, just need to get a new ammeter to replace the burned up repop.

I also found a Sparton horn to replace my 6v JC Whitney horn that the previous owner had purchased. Model: AF. No51931. 6v

Getting this cleaned up for use and trying to get the horn rod wiring replaced led to my next trouble spot. My horn rod/light switch broke.

Itís always been really tight and even with the copper bushing you can get from the suppliers, it would always change positions when turning corners. While it was out I noticed it had been rigged together at some point. I measured it at 45-3/4Ē. I have the Gemmer steering box on my car. Should I have the 45-31/32Ē horn rod and thatís why itís always been too tight?


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Old 05-09-2018, 03:19 PM   #162
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Default Re: My 1930 Model A

Snyder's has a pretty good way to tell - https://www.snydersantiqueauto.com/light-switch-rod

Probably snapped off because of fatigue caused by the snaky repair job.
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Old 05-09-2018, 05:17 PM   #163
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Snyder's has a pretty good way to tell - https://www.snydersantiqueauto.com/light-switch-rod

Probably snapped off because of fatigue caused by the snaky repair job.
What a great read keep us informed even though we've never met I think of you as a friend

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Old 06-25-2018, 11:51 PM   #164
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Hopefully this will work. I took a couple of short videos of the (what I believe) JC Whitney 6v horn and one of the Sparton Horn after I got the motor cleaned and lubricated. The difference is unbelievable.

https://youtu.be/vf_WLqznQ6A

https://youtu.be/OZjTHQazfNQ

I recently switched jobs so Iím not out in the garage as often, but still trying to fix things as I can.


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Old 06-25-2018, 11:53 PM   #165
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Default My 1930 Model A

I took her to a small local show this weekend and won a beat in class. I think I got a young guy hooked on the model a bug. He was looking them up as we were talking. After the show I even took him and his family for a short drive.

I also got my luggage rack installed and added the passenger side taillight. I was insanely nervous about drilling that first hole, measured about 50 times, then had my dad double and triple check everything before drilling. But I think it came out ok.






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Old 05-27-2020, 03:18 PM   #166
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Default Re: My 1930 Model A

I an 65 & have had my 29 since I was 14. Unless the old part is Busted in half....Keep it. I cant tell you how many times ive robbed an old part to make something work, Most times the old parts are far superior to new ones.
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