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Old 08-25-2015, 03:56 PM   #1
Ryan
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Default Fellas... I've had enough...

There are social cliques in this community... And through posts on the forum as well as through private messages, these cliques seem to be constantly battling each other and seemingly measuring each other's manhood.

The reasoning behind it all baffles me. This is, after all, just a forum about old Fords. I can't, no matter how hard I try, find a rational reason for anyone to attack or ridicule another person over an old Ford.

I have a whole bunch of kids. One of them is 9 and her class recently got to debate on the lunch menu - what is served on what days and things like that. Now if you have a 9 year old, you know how important this is to them. It's like three or four on their life priority list.

Anyway, the parents were told to sit on the sidelines and let the kids go at it while the teacher moderated. They argued back and forth over things like pizza and burgers for an entire hour. In that hour, not a single 9 year old called another 9 year old a name... And not a single 9 year old told another 9 year old to "shut up."

Amazing given the way some of you guys treat each other, isn't it?

I have a theory. Kids are honest. Kids are wholesome. They haven't been tainted by society and they haven't had their ego stomped on by years of the kinds of abuse life can bring. Grown men on the internet, however, are entirely different. Some of them aren't honest. Most aren't wholesome. Some have battered egos. Hide them behind a computer screen with a silly username and an avatar and all of this is amplified to the point of nausea.

If we were all at a bar having this conversation, do you think anyone of you would tell anyone else in the conversation to "shut the fuck up?" And if you did, how long do you think you would be welcome in the group?

So why on earth would you do it on a forum about old Fords?

I believe it's because some of you like the feeling of being something online you really aren't in real life. And some of you like to act online in a way that you are too scared to act offline. In either case, I don't like to host these kinds of fellas. I would rather them not be on my forum at all. Maybe that's my issue... Maybe I should be more understanding of these folks, but I've failed miserably when I have tried.

In any case, I'm done. I'm done baby sitting a bunch of kids at a name calling party.

- Want call some other guy a name because you disagree with him? Your account is gone.

- Want to constantly report another member's posts because you feel he is doing the same to you? Your account is gone.

- Want to team up on another group of members with all your buddies? All of your accounts are gone.

In short, I'm done fellas. It's either you or me... And it isn't gonna be me.

Note: To those of you that are just here to enjoy old Fords, learn a thing or two, or teach something to the masses - please excuse this post and understand that in order to end all of the drama, you might start to see some really common names around here gone.
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Old 08-25-2015, 04:05 PM   #2
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Default Re: Fellas... I've had enough...

Well said and THANK YOU!
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Old 08-25-2015, 04:12 PM   #3
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Default Re: Fellas... I've had enough...

wow, what can be said? there are guys in here that are afraid to post because of some of the more aggressive people on here, well said Ryan
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Old 08-25-2015, 04:14 PM   #4
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Default Re: Fellas... I've had enough...

OK by me!

I'm here to talk about fixin' and drivin' Old Fords!

8-)
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Old 08-25-2015, 04:15 PM   #5
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Default Re: Fellas... I've had enough...

Understood.
In the future if I feel compelled to send a PM to someone I will request their email and do it off line. That way my impressions, and opinions will be only known to myself and one other person.
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Old 08-25-2015, 04:19 PM   #6
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Default Re: Fellas... I've had enough...

Ryan,
I just wanted to reaffirm the value of Ford Barn. I'm a newer Model A owner and folks on this site have been a treasure trove of useful information and help. I will admit that 90% has come though the private message system. There are a lot of wonderful people on this forum that want to help people like me but don't want to be attacked for it. Someday I may have enough knowledge on these old Fords to pay it forward.
Thanks for the site,
Hugh Howell
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Old 08-25-2015, 04:23 PM   #7
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Default Re: Fellas... I've had enough...

Quote:
Originally Posted by VFRhugh View Post
There are a lot of wonderful people on this forum that want to help people like me but don't want to be attacked for it.
That time has come and gone.
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Old 08-25-2015, 04:23 PM   #8
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Default Re: Fellas... I've had enough...

I appreciate your comments and action. My hope is the message board will be a better one. Thank you for sponsoring it for us old car guys.
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Old 08-25-2015, 04:25 PM   #9
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Default Re: Fellas... I've had enough...

No problems here. To the best of my knowledge I have only offended one person here and did so after being publicly attacked. If it was more than one, it was purely on accident. My only goals here are to restore my delivery and find and share the changes and truth about some details of their production. Dispelling hearsay and misprinted info on them is part of the journey. Yes, I ask the difficult questions to get a feel for the info I seek. Hopefully next summer I will have enough info to go to the Benson and effectively research the leads.

I am the senior man and trainer on a maintenance crew of 5, with a supervisor that is only there for the first hour of our shift. Two of the mechanics are alittle green. So I have enough drama in my life. Rod
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Old 08-25-2015, 04:30 PM   #10
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Default Re: Fellas... I've had enough...

Well said!
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Old 08-25-2015, 04:33 PM   #11
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Default Re: Fellas... I've had enough...

As the long-time rootadmin of a forum for a competitive hobby, I feel your pain.

Isn't it always the case that a small percentage of the members in any situation absorb the vast majority of one's attention by causing the most problems? As, in any group or organization, a small percentage do the vast majority of the useful work.

You'll never be able to admin a forum to suit the preferences of every member, so admin to suit your own preferences and let the chips fall where they may.

My goal is to run my forum in such a way that I'd want to be a member of it, if I wasn't the nutcase running the asylum.

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Old 08-25-2015, 04:55 PM   #12
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Default Re: Fellas... I've had enough...

Ban me so I can get off the forum and get something done!!

Ryan, much better to vent and ban than to start the slippery slope of censorship.

Good on you, John
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Old 08-25-2015, 04:58 PM   #13
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Default Re: Fellas... I've had enough...

Please don't start waving the censorship flag. This is a private forum and therefore this is no guarantee of freedom of speech here.

The way things are these days in most countries, I'm not sure there is such a guarantee anywhere.
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Old 08-25-2015, 05:06 PM   #14
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Default Re: Fellas... I've had enough...

Well said! All boils down that there are always a few that thinks they have larger balls than others and they might have but that's really pointless here as Model A's with 40HP, which really is not much balls less one puts one of those plastic ones on the rear bumper..

Tossing some bad fruit for the sake of the basket is always a wise thing to do.
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Old 08-25-2015, 05:07 PM   #15
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Default Re: Fellas... I've had enough...

If requiring members of this forum to be civil with each other or, at the very least, to ignore those they don't get along with is an act of censorship, well then... consider me a censor.

Point being, opinions are cool fellas. Opinions will always be welcomed. However, if you can't express an opinion without bagging another person in the process, then this forum will not cater to you.

This is really just a matter of simple manners. Our parents taught us this, right? So, it shouldn't be too hard to extend those principles to a forum about old Fords.

As a forum admin with limited hours in a day to tend to admin manners, the really hard part of all of this to me is this:

I have about ten members that are constantly complaining about one another. If I had the time, I'd go back and look at years of post history to see who started what... But I don't. Further, I don't really care too... It's not fun... and this is supposed to be fun for me too... But because I don't have this context, I have no side in any of these arguments and long standing hate fests. Instead, I tell each side to simply be nice to each other, ignore each other, and move on.

You what the typical response to this is? They ignore me... and continue bashing each other on a forum that I provide to them at no cost what so ever.

That's really the part I'm done with. I'm essentially wiping the slate clean at this point and giving these people one last chance. But, that's it...
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Old 08-25-2015, 05:10 PM   #16
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Default Re: Fellas... I've had enough...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Slotblog View Post
Please don't start waving the censorship flag. This is a private forum and therefore this is no guarantee of freedom of speech here.

The way things are these days in most countries, I'm not sure there is such a guarantee anywhere.
Not waving any flags here, nor expecting a guarantee of freedom of speech.
I have witnessed censorship (editing content) over the years a couple other sites that tried it and lost. There are engines available to squelch unwanted content and language, Ryan does alright as far as I am concerned.

If some users are banned, so be it.
John
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Old 08-25-2015, 05:11 PM   #17
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Default Re: Fellas... I've had enough...

Fine with me I am happy with the rules
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Old 08-25-2015, 05:14 PM   #18
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Default Re: Fellas... I've had enough...

Wish vBulletin had a like button...
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Old 08-25-2015, 05:25 PM   #19
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Default Re: Fellas... I've had enough...

So I guess if you type out something when you are upset, you need to wait a bit before you post it and re-read it. If it ain't nice, then perhaps you shouldn't print it.
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Old 08-25-2015, 05:30 PM   #20
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Default Re: Fellas... I've had enough...

Great news! Throw the bums out. Carry on!
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Old 08-25-2015, 06:16 PM   #21
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Default Re: Fellas... I've had enough...

I'm not here that much so thankfully I have missed the problem Ryan has pointed out but I am very active on the Hamb and have seen things get nasty.

I have always thought that fighting on the internet and name calling is childish but in reality kids act better than some adults on some of the forums.

I don't know the party's are that have been at each other throat but when it comes to the attention of the Boss and it's his sandbox and he offers to reset the clock you guys need listen. HRP
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Old 08-25-2015, 06:19 PM   #22
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Default Re: Fellas... I've had enough...

There is no need nor call to be nasty to anyone on this forum. We are all here for the same love of Old Fords. Today I got a beautiful '31 tudor in my shop for a new pinstripe job. Ain't life lovely?
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Old 08-25-2015, 06:35 PM   #23
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Default Re: Fellas... I've had enough...

I have felt for a while now that some people are a bit precious which, if so, would make the moderator's job very difficult. It is also easy to misinterpret a post, especially when there is a difference between nationalities. There are small differences in how people from one country relate to others compared to how those in another country do. That can easily lead to unintentional offence.
Ryan, I appreciate what you do and all the time you spend doing it. I thank you for that but don't envy you job.
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Old 08-25-2015, 07:07 PM   #24
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Default Re: Fellas... I've had enough...

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Originally Posted by Synchro909 View Post
I have felt for a while now that some people are a bit precious which, if so, would make the moderator's job very difficult. It is also easy to misinterpret a post, especially when there is a difference between nationalities. There are small differences in how people from one country relate to others compared to how those in another country do. That can easily lead to unintentional offence.
Ryan, I appreciate what you do and all the time you spend doing it. I thank you for that but don't envy you job.
My 2 cents: Yes there are nationality differences but for me I just find it flat out amazing people halfway around the world in a different season can communicate and send pictures to one another! Gotta remember when our Model A's were new only 70% of homes in the USA had electricity!

I really enjoy learning about our differences as that's what makes us who we are as a country and even region specifics within a country (like coke VS soda VS pop VS soda pop etc). Id love to travel to Europe and visit my family's homeland of Finland but Ive yet to be outside of the US - I have been to Canada but I dont count that as that was pre-passport era

On all the different forums I belong to usually its "the foreigners" (no offense) first apologizing for their bad English skills, while most of the time they are the ones speaking correctly...I cant say Ive ever seen anyone "bash" someone from another country on a forum - besides the occasional poking fun

Also lest we not forget the ol saying: "There is more than one way to skin a cat" - Most of what we have today was invented from people surrounded by naysayers so just because there is a great written method out there to do a task maybe that just means a better one is to be discovered or put in writing.
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Old 08-25-2015, 07:16 PM   #25
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Default Re: Fellas... I've had enough...

Exactly the reasons why Ahooga is almost dead..

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Old 08-25-2015, 07:22 PM   #26
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Default Re: Fellas... I've had enough...

Ryan,
I "think" it's mostly to do with BIG HEADS & EGOS---Some have to PROVE they know MORE than the average Dude. EVERYONE'S insecure, some just don't ADMIT it! I worked with a really decent tech, promoted to Service Manager, became a DICK & wuz GONE in 3 Months!---He thought he was THE PRESIDENT OF THE WORLD, instead of looking for Techs doing GOOD things & COMMENDING them for it!
Chief said, " WE'RE ALL CHILDREN, IN OOOLD SKINS"!
On The Barn, it's EASY to figure out who knows their SHIT. I try to only critique, when BAD or INCORRECT info is posted, we don't want mis-lead or screw up someone. We MUST post responsibly, this stuff is read WORLDWIDE!!
I do the "humor" to help someone REMEMBER some GOOD, PROVEN advice & to make some LONELY or HURTING person to LAFF, if for only a Minute or so.
I'm no ANGEL, though, you've BANNED me, temporarily, 2 times, glad you let me back on.
AND, I "think" my skin's grown THICKER, I rarely BRUISE anymore, BUT, it didn't help the 79 years of WRINKLES.
Would one of you buy the house, across the street & HELP me finish VERMIN? Buster T. makes GOOD COFFEE, too.
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Old 08-25-2015, 07:27 PM   #27
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Default Re: Fellas... I've had enough...

I enjoy this sight. Thank you for making it even better. I like your rules. I was in a famous preacher's office in Frisco, TX a while back and he has a big sign behind his desk that says "Be Nice or Get Out". I liked it!
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Old 08-25-2015, 07:44 PM   #28
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Default Re: Fellas... I've had enough...

I haven't been apart of the forum that long, but luckily haven't been attacked for asking questions from my very little knowledge of these fine great cars we are all interested in.

One thing people need to keep in mind about others points of view is we are all a part of the same species and there are much bigger problems on this earth than these old Fords or people's different perspectives/opinions about them.
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Old 08-25-2015, 07:49 PM   #29
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Default Re: Fellas... I've had enough...

I know of several knowledgeable posters who have quit, myself included, for several reasons, which include open attacks on the forum and hate mails via PM. It is tiring.
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Old 08-25-2015, 07:51 PM   #30
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Default Re: Fellas... I've had enough...

I don't read any of the childish crap you're talking about. I'm all about the cars, and the great answers this site offers. Keep up the good work Ryan.
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Old 08-25-2015, 08:16 PM   #31
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Default Re: Fellas... I've had enough...

Quote:
Originally Posted by glenn in camino View Post
I don't read any of the childish crap you're talking about. I'm all about the cars, and the great answers this site offers. Keep up the good work Ryan.
I don't either...I look at this place as another tool in my tool box. Yes I have a computer in my shop and I use it as a tool for research while I am out there enjoying, preserving and bringing these great automobiles back to life.

Ryan...you are lucky you only have ten bad apples to deal with considering how many people come through here daily.

If it was me I would ban them immediately and post there user names as an example.

Great post by the way. I think you really nailed the reason why these people do what they do.

Thanks.
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Old 08-25-2015, 08:21 PM   #32
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Default Re: Fellas... I've had enough...

Ok, everybody, how about a group hug!
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Old 08-25-2015, 08:22 PM   #33
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Default Re: Fellas... I've had enough...

I'm so stupid I don't even know what he's talking about!
I just post what I know when I know it.
Try to leave editorials to the Sunday paper!
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Old 08-25-2015, 08:50 PM   #34
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Default Re: Fellas... I've had enough...

Quote:
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Ok, everybody, how about a group hug!
Even the Guy with B.O, that smells like STINK BAIT???
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Old 08-25-2015, 08:55 PM   #35
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Default Re: Fellas... I've had enough...

Yes Bill, even him. 😨
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Old 08-25-2015, 09:27 PM   #36
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Default Re: Fellas... I've had enough...

Ryan- Thanks for all that you do for the vintage car (and hot rod) community. I appreciate that you keep this place "clean" for those of us who want to play nice. I am not sure if there is (was) a specific thread that caused this particular incident, but I trust your judgement and respect all you do for us. Those that can't play nice can sit by themselves in a corner!
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Old 08-25-2015, 09:30 PM   #37
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Default Re: Fellas... I've had enough...

I agree!!!!!!!
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Old 08-25-2015, 09:33 PM   #38
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Default Re: Fellas... I've had enough...

Quote:
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Even the Guy with B.O, that smells like STINK BAIT???
Bill W.
Bill, I thought bringing political opinions onto the Barn was prohibited????
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Old 08-25-2015, 09:44 PM   #39
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Default Re: Fellas... I've had enough...

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I enjoy this sight. Thank you for making it even better. I like your rules. I was in a famous preacher's office in Frisco, TX a while back and he has a big sign behind his desk that says "Be Nice or Get Out". I liked it!
Henry,
My Dear departed wife, Pat, had a sign in her IRS office, "I AIN'T YO' MOMMA"!!
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Old 08-25-2015, 09:50 PM   #40
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Default Re: Fellas... I've had enough...

Ryan,
Here's a partial-solution used by another forum I'm on: require actual names in the signature area.

That is why my name is there. I put my name on everything I say.

A name and phone number might be even better. People are less likely to slam others when they know they can be gotten to. Take your name or number off your signature, and your account is suspended.
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Old 08-25-2015, 10:10 PM   #41
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Ryan,
Here's a partial-solution used by another forum I'm on: require actual names in the signature area.

That is why my name is there. I put my name on everything I say.

A name and phone number might be even better. People are less likely to slam others when they know they can be gotten to. Take your name or number off your signature, and your account is suspended.
I was just going to type a very similar suggestion. I have seen this work on other forums. (forae?... My Latin is a little weak). I was going to say no screen names, only real names, and require the location field to be filled in. But monitoring that might just increase the work load for Ryan, so that may not be practical.

I used to put my name, location, and club affiliation in my signature. I stopped doing that because it seemed to not matter to anyone. But like Newshirt, I don't mind identifying myself.
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Old 08-25-2015, 10:23 PM   #42
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Default Re: Fellas... I've had enough...

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Ryan,
Here's a partial-solution used by another forum I'm on: require actual names in the signature area.

That is why my name is there. I put my name on everything I say.

A name and phone number might be even better. People are less likely to slam others when they know they can be gotten to. Take your name or number off your signature, and your account is suspended.
I can't agree with this, having a name that is listed in the phone book or worse yet shown right here for all to see really opens the door for any nut job to call. Ryan's solution is the best; if you don't play by his rules you are gone.
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Old 08-25-2015, 10:29 PM   #43
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Default Re: Fellas... I've had enough...

Thanks Ryan.
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Old 08-25-2015, 10:51 PM   #44
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Default Re: Fellas... I've had enough...

Please do as you say and just rid the forum of the instigaters that you discover. I think most of us here just want to help each other and enjoy the nice site that you have provided. Here is to all the barners that want to have fun with our hobby and helping someone else solve their vehicle problem is part of the fun for me, and I really appreciate everyones help the other way around! Thank you Ryan!
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Old 08-25-2015, 11:02 PM   #45
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Default Re: Fellas... I've had enough...

I'm a relatively new barber, and I've read some barbed responses. I have a pretty thick skin for a guy in his 60's, and there's always room for funnin' , as long as it doesn't hammer someone into the ground, and YES, THERE ARE A FEW.

The GOLDEN BARN RULE should be to offer experienced advice in a friendly-enough manner. I've only had my A for a little more than a year, and my barn-brothers have taught me a lot. I have a ton of respect for the experience of many here. There is a tight-knit group of "Wizards of A's" and I seek their advice constantly. Now and then, though, there's a Joker in the deck that raises my eyebrow and blood pressure.

The Barn is top notch, guys (and gals)! Please don't give up on it because of a couple of "A" holes.
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Old 08-25-2015, 11:02 PM   #46
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Default Re: Fellas... I've had enough...

"Barner", not "Barber"!!! Dang that spellcheck!
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Old 08-25-2015, 11:34 PM   #47
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Default Re: Fellas... I've had enough...

I think name and phone number is a very bad idea.

Might as well give them your street address also!

1. I was involved in the late 70s with the BBS Bulletin Board System of computers (text only back then) ... there were some guys that posted names, phone and address.

At the time there were very few computers to choose from and they were not cheap!

Guess which folks got their computers stolen?

2. Same thing with the early cell phones. The "in thing" in 1987 was to have a cell phone antenna on the rear window of your car.

Guys at work asked "How come you have a hidden antenna for your cell phone? Don't you want everyone to know that you have a cell phone?"

Bingo ... you got it ... I do not want them to know.

Again which ones do you think got their cell phones stolen?

3. I do not want the criminals who are trolling the Forums to know where they might find my Model As, tools and parts ... why make it so easy for them?

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Old 08-26-2015, 12:02 AM   #48
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Default Re: Fellas... I've had enough...

I first started messing with Model A Fords 59 years ago. I am now 77 and finally retired this year. I just want to have fun with my cars and enjoy the hobby with others who appreciate the Model A Ford as I do. Thru the years I have a gained little knowledge and enjoy helping others. I will be the first to admit I do not know everything about these cars (or anything else for that matter) and have used "The Barn" to answer questions that I have.

Recently, I have become a little gun-shy about posting on The Barn. It seemed to be getting so if I posted an answer to a question, someone would post a different answer in such a manner that as much as said I did not know what I was talking about and acted like all they wanted to do is to get into some sort of a pissing contest.

I try to only post when I feel I am qualified to answer a question and I always indicate that this is "just my opinion". Certainly, there may be several different answers to a particular question that are all relevant but there is a way to post different opinions in a respectful manner without calling names or condemning another person.

As it has been said before, this is just a hobby folks, this is not life and death, this is supposed to be fun.

It is good to see new guys in the hobby. I think this forum is very helpful to someone who just purchased there first Model A Ford and needs help with his car. If it were not for the new younger enthusiasts getting into the hobby, our hobby will just die.

If some of us who have a little experience with these cars can help the newer owners, it will make it more enjoyable for everyone.

We need to focus on what this hobby is supposed to be all about and keep this forum fun and informative for everyone.

Good call Ryan. Keep up the good work.

(Again, this is JUST MY OPINION)

Chris W.
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Old 08-26-2015, 12:09 AM   #49
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Default Re: Fellas... I've had enough...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Benson View Post
I think name and phone number is a very bad idea.
I do not want some nut on The Barn calling me in the middle of the night wanting to argue about something I posted.

No names or phone numbers please.

My Opinion,

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Old 08-26-2015, 02:23 AM   #50
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Cool Re: Fellas... I've had enough...

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...It seemed to be getting so if I posted an answer to a question, someone would post a different answer in such a manner that as much as said I did not know what I was talking about and acted like all they wanted to do is to get into some sort of a pissing contest.
Yep - seen that (in general terms - not your posts etc).

Sometimes people ARE knowledgable.

Sometimes they THINK they are, but are open to learning or suggestions.

Sometimes they KNOW they are, but are often mistaken and don't realise it .


The last ones are often the "difficult ones" - luckily there aren't too many.
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Old 08-26-2015, 03:14 AM   #51
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Default Re: Fellas... I've had enough...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Slotblog View Post
Wish vBulletin had a like button...
I've seen other vBulletin boards with that feature. I have also seen a "thanks" button, and when rating a thread a list of who voted and how they voted.

I'm just saying that this is what I have seen on other boards. Nothing else.
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Old 08-26-2015, 03:40 AM   #52
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Default Re: Fellas... I've had enough...

We all have hard held beliefs. These come from a variety of sources; parents and mentors are two of the biggest. When these "truths" are questioned we often take it as a personal attack, an attack on ourselves and on our sources.

I believe this is where most of the problems come from, defending honor.

There are some that are just out there. There was one guy that no matter what I put down, I would get a PM and email on how I could not be more wrong, no matter what.

My point is there are going to be people that are going to post something that you don't agree with. Something that you know to be "fact". All you can do is just present your side and remember you can lead a horse to water, but you cannot make him drink.

You are also going to find posts that don't agree with what you have written. Same thing goes.

Have I always followed my own advice? Hell no, I have "read between the lines" incorrectly, but I do feel I have gotten better over time and there is always room for improvement.

There are extremely few forums that deal with restoration, fewer still on the Model A, and I for one would be disappointed if this one would disappear.

To those of you lurking in the background and are afraid to ask a question "in public", use the PM and or email feature. I receive several from time to time. It is important that we work together to keep our A's working and on the road.
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Old 08-26-2015, 06:23 AM   #53
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Thumbs up Re: Fellas... I've had enough...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Benson View Post
I think name and phone number is a very bad idea.

Might as well give them your street address also!

1. I was involved in the late 70s with the BBS Bulletin Board System of computers (text only back then) ... there were some guys that posted names, phone and address.
Do you still do any BBSing? I've run a telnet system for about 13 years now. PM me if you want any info about connecting. Hard to find anyone who used to BBS back then.
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Old 08-26-2015, 06:25 AM   #54
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Default Re: Fellas... I've had enough...

I thought you also had the option to "ignore" someone. There are a few on here I would like to do that to, but see no ignore option. Am I missing it?
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Old 08-26-2015, 07:35 AM   #55
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Default Re: Fellas... I've had enough...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Benson View Post
I think name and phone number is a very bad idea.


3. I do not want the criminals who are trolling the Forums to know where they might find my Model As, tools and parts ... why make it so easy for them?

I agree 100% and may I ad, I don't want ex-wives, ex-lady friends or their husbands or boyfriends trolling the forums looking for me either!!!! I'll stay alias until I die....of old age, I hope!!!
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Old 08-26-2015, 07:59 AM   #56
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Default Re: Fellas... I've had enough...

Well said Ryan!! Remember, guys, if Ryan has had enough he has the ability of pulling the plug on the whole site. Then where would we be? If you are banned (and you know who you are) then shame on you.
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Old 08-26-2015, 08:17 AM   #57
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Default Re: Fellas... I've had enough...

Quote:
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Do you still do any BBSing? I've run a telnet system for about 13 years now. PM me if you want any info about connecting. Hard to find anyone who used to BBS back then.
No BBS work anymore.

This was using the ARPANET connecting through U of W, Seattle, long before the Internet, using a homemade Z-80 CPU at first, 300 baud modems and modified voice cassette data storage.

Later TRS-80 Model II with 8 inch floppy disks using ATON CPM (Control Program for Microcomputers) Operating System.

The big deal was when I bought a Racal Vadic VA3451, 1200 baud modem.

Ward Christiansen's BBS software called "BYE" ... 128 byte data block CRC error correction.

Primitive stuff by today's standards.

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Old 08-26-2015, 08:20 AM   #58
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Default Re: Fellas... I've had enough...

Amen Ryan
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Old 08-26-2015, 08:43 AM   #59
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Default Re: Fellas... I've had enough...

Ryan, I agree that the internet is destroying social skills and personal accountability. I have employees and customers that hide behind the safety of their email address and type very damaging, disrespectful comments about people they have never met and hope they never do face to face. This forum is very important to me as I continue to learn about my Model A. The knowledge shared on this forum is a very valuable tool for me and others as we all try to keep these amazing cars alive for us and future generations. If it's you job to keep it clean, I wish you great success and wise discernment going forward. Personally, I would appreciate a ban on foul language as I would like to share this forum with my grandchildren as they are coming of age to help work on the pickup. Thanks for all you do to keep this forum alive.

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Old 08-26-2015, 08:43 AM   #60
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Default Re: Fellas... I've had enough...

I've run a hobby forum for almost 12 years where real names are required to be visible if members wish to post or use the PM system and it works well to keep the flaming and bad behavior to a minimum. People are a lot more circumspect if they know their real names are tied to their comments and online behavior.

Yet, there are still a few people who couldn't be civil and thus were sent away to cause their problems for others.

FWIW there's never been a single incident reported regarding any problems resulting from having real names visible. You're far more at risk from a data breach at some company with which you do business.

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Old 08-26-2015, 09:29 AM   #61
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Default Re: Fellas... I've had enough...

I for one have been constantly harassed for over two years and as such I welcome Ryan's new rules / procedures! They are long overdue. Thanks Ryan, Wayne
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Old 08-26-2015, 09:31 AM   #62
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Default Re: Fellas... I've had enough...

I guess I missed all the drama thanks Ryan . And I would like to thank everyone that's helped me along the way.
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Old 08-26-2015, 09:59 AM   #63
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Default Re: Fellas... I've had enough...

Have you ever driven your antique car to a car show? Did you put your name on the placard and place it in the windshield?

And did the 'trolls' follow you home and steal your sweet ride? Probably not.

Real names on public forums are the same.
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Old 08-26-2015, 10:28 AM   #64
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Default Re: Fellas... I've had enough...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Larry Jenkins View Post
Exactly the reasons why Ahooga is almost dead..

Larry
I forgot about that site, haven't looked at it in ages. Seemed like it was only maybe a dozen folks on there anyway. And Dale letting guys vent about politics did get old.

Fordbarn was always a better set up. Well run. Nice pictures posted. Responses took the thread back to the top. Most of the top Model A-V8-Model T guys seemed to be here anyway. Too many to list!!

The cream (Fordbarn) does always rise, to the top!
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Old 08-26-2015, 11:04 AM   #65
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Default Re: Fellas... I've had enough...

Amen!
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Old 08-26-2015, 11:15 AM   #66
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Default Re: Fellas... I've had enough...

Quote:
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agree ryan. can someone send a P.M.of ryans message to purty swoft. tom
It would be my pleasure! Wayne
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Old 08-26-2015, 11:25 AM   #67
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Default Re: Fellas... I've had enough...

Thanks Ryan for all you do. This forum provides a wealth of information to the new people in the hobby and to those of us who have been around a while. Do what you think best to keep this forum going. Taking care of this site takes enough of your time and there is no reason for you to put up with a few children that can play well with others. Go ahead with your plan, sounds fine to me.
Hang in there . . we, and future generations, need a site like this to help keep the old iron on the road.
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Old 08-26-2015, 11:34 AM   #68
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Cool Re: Fellas... I've had enough...

Ryan -

Thank you for all the hard work and putting up this site with so few technical glitches. We truly appreciate the Forum and enjoy all who partake of it in the right spirit.

Please don't give up us as the vast majority are following the rules and garnering lots of fun Ford facts and helpful hints.

Thank you Sir!

Be well -

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Old 08-26-2015, 12:20 PM   #69
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Default Re: Fellas... I've had enough...

Quote:
Originally Posted by newshirt View Post
Have you ever driven your antique car to a car show? Did you put your name on the placard and place it in the windshield?

And did the 'trolls' follow you home and steal your sweet ride? Probably not.

Real names on public forums are the same.
They stopped that here in South Florida for just that reason. First names only.
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Old 08-26-2015, 12:24 PM   #70
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Default Re: Fellas... I've had enough...

As stated above, thank you Ryan for all of your hard work and dedication.
Your impact on the hobby can not be measured and your websites are appreciated worldwide. Keep up the GREAT work.-GZ
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Old 08-26-2015, 01:02 PM   #71
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Default Re: Fellas... I've had enough...

I too want to thank Ryan for his tolerance and a great site.

Now as to the names and cities should I change my handle from Russell in Tulsa or do you think I'm OK? Just kidding as I bet I'm not the "only" Russell in town, and don't feel I've opened myself up to theft.

I'm grateful to have this site to come and learn about the Model A and tales from the past and regret that I "wasted" time with other interests (at the time) re: motor home, boats, and other such things I now have no interest in that could have been spent more with the "A".

I, and possibly others, thought a PM was private. Shows how much I understand computers. Ha!
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Old 08-26-2015, 01:24 PM   #72
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Default Re: Fellas... I've had enough...

Being it is a Private Forum all of it's members must follow the Rules. If they don't they risk being deleted.
Membership is an option not a right.
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Old 08-26-2015, 01:52 PM   #73
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Default Re: Fellas... I've had enough...

In the town I grew up in more know me as Rowdy than Rod. Although I live 25 miles from there it is almost an even mix. Rod
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Old 08-26-2015, 01:54 PM   #74
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Default Re: Fellas... I've had enough...

There's always going to 10 or 20% who cause 80-90% of the problems.

Thanks, Ryan, for what you do. I'm cool with your rules.
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Old 08-26-2015, 01:54 PM   #75
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Default Re: Fellas... I've had enough...

Quote:
Originally Posted by newshirt View Post
Have you ever driven your antique car to a car show? Did you put your name on the placard and place it in the windshield?

And did the 'trolls' follow you home and steal your sweet ride? Probably not.

Real names on public forums are the same.

Yeah, except a local show is local and the forums are world wide.
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Old 08-26-2015, 01:55 PM   #76
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Default Re: Fellas... I've had enough...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ryan View Post
There are social cliques in this community... And through posts on the forum as well as through private messages, these cliques seem to be constantly battling each other and seemingly measuring each other's manhood.

The reasoning behind it all baffles me. This is, after all, just a forum about old Fords. I can't, no matter how hard I try, find a rational reason for anyone to attack or ridicule another person over an old Ford.

I have a whole bunch of kids. One of them is 9 and her class recently got to debate on the lunch menu - what is served on what days and things like that. Now if you have a 9 year old, you know how important this is to them. It's like three or four on their life priority list.

Anyway, the parents were told to sit on the sidelines and let the kids go at it while the teacher moderated. They argued back and forth over things like pizza and burgers for an entire hour. In that hour, not a single 9 year old called another 9 year old a name... And not a single 9 year old told another 9 year old to "shut up."

Amazing given the way some of you guys treat each other, isn't it?

I have a theory. Kids are honest. Kids are wholesome. They haven't been tainted by society and they haven't had their ego stomped on by years of the kinds of abuse life can bring. Grown men on the internet, however, are entirely different. Some of them aren't honest. Most aren't wholesome. Some have battered egos. Hide them behind a computer screen with a silly username and an avatar and all of this is amplified to the point of nausea.

If we were all at a bar having this conversation, do you think anyone of you would tell anyone else in the conversation to "shut the fuck up?" And if you did, how long do you think you would be welcome in the group?

So why on earth would you do it on a forum about old Fords?

I believe it's because some of you like the feeling of being something online you really aren't in real life. And some of you like to act online in a way that you are too scared to act offline. In either case, I don't like to host these kinds of fellas. I would rather them not be on my forum at all. Maybe that's my issue... Maybe I should be more understanding of these folks, but I've failed miserably when I have tried.

In any case, I'm done. I'm done baby sitting a bunch of kids at a name calling party.

- Want call some other guy a name because you disagree with him? Your account is gone.

- Want to constantly report another member's posts because you feel he is doing the same to you? Your account is gone.

- Want to team up on another group of members with all your buddies? All of your accounts are gone.

In short, I'm done fellas. It's either you or me... And it isn't gonna be me.

Note: To those of you that are just here to enjoy old Fords, learn a thing or two, or teach something to the masses - please excuse this post and understand that in order to end all of the drama, you might start to see some really common names around here gone.
Well said! this Forum is a super tool and there is absolutely no reason to be-little anyone with a question about his/her Model A.
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Old 08-26-2015, 02:01 PM   #77
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Default Re: Fellas... I've had enough...

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I think name and phone number is a very bad idea.

Might as well give them your street address also!

1. I was involved in the late 70s with the BBS Bulletin Board System of computers (text only back then) ... there were some guys that posted names, phone and address.

At the time there were very few computers to choose from and they were not cheap! $4000 to $5000 each, plus $1000 for a printer. In 1979 a new Chevy Malibu cost $6000.

In 1977 that was a lot of money.

Guess which folks got their computers stolen?

2. Same thing with the early cell phones. The "in thing" in 1987 was to have a cell phone antenna on the rear window of your car. Guys at work asked "How come you have a hidden antenna for your cell phone? Don't you want everyone to know that you have a cell phone?"

Bingo ... you got it ... I do not want them to know.

Again which ones do you think got their cell phones stolen?

3. I do not want the criminals who are trolling the Forums to know where they might find my Model As, tools and parts ... why make it so easy for them?
If you've ever been stalked online, you'd not wish to put your real name out there..
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Old 08-26-2015, 02:19 PM   #78
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If you've ever been stalked online, you'd not wish to put your real name out there..

I don't think Ryan will go with those suggestions, if he does, I'll have to leave and take all my knowledge and expertise about Model A Ford with me.
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Old 08-26-2015, 02:20 PM   #79
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Default Re: Fellas... I've had enough...

Ryan,
Are P.M.'s REALLY PRIVATE?
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Old 08-26-2015, 02:47 PM   #80
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Default Re: Fellas... I've had enough...

I walked away from the Model T forums at MTFCA. I asked the leadership to moderate and get rid of politics et. al.
Hobbies that grow prosper. I took heat from that leadership but their very own written policy backed me up. They did ask that politics etc be avoided. Post for the good of the hobby.
Thanks Ryan and MTFCA (on the other side).
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Old 08-26-2015, 02:48 PM   #81
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Default Re: Fellas... I've had enough...

This is a great forum, I have recieved many helpful suggestions. Dont let the few dictate for the many. Dwayne
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Old 08-26-2015, 03:14 PM   #82
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This is a great forum, I have recieved many helpful suggestions. Dont let the few dictate for the many. Dwayne
There's the "KEY" word-----"THE FEW"
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Old 08-26-2015, 04:13 PM   #83
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Default Re: Fellas... I've had enough...

ive read what Ryan said over the last few days, and my conclusion is like RYANS, be nice, or be gone, so very simple LOL
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Old 08-26-2015, 04:15 PM   #84
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Default Re: Fellas... I've had enough...

Quote:
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If we were all at a bar having this conversation, do you think anyone of you would tell anyone else in the conversation to "shut the fuck up?"So why on earth would you do it on a forum about old Fords?
I have learned not to post here. I read it every day but I seldom post. Those who treat other poorly I just skip over. I never read their stuff. They are only here to show other up.




Quote:
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I believe it's because some of you like the feeling of being something online you really aren't in real life. And some of you like to act online in a way that you are too scared to act offline.
Well said. They know who they are. They were picked on in school so they will spend the rest of their lives trying to make up for it. Without the internet they would just have to make up lies about their former greatness to tell their wife and children. With the internet their "former greatness" is shared with us.
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Old 08-26-2015, 04:46 PM   #85
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Default Re: Fellas... I've had enough...

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I have learned not to post here...
Before I post anything, I attempt to reason out what I intend to say, and many times I just pass on that post/question, saying to myself: "let someone else answer that." I've gained a lot more here than I have been able to contribute. Appreciate being able to just sit back and listen most of the time.

PS: Hi Curley!
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Old 08-26-2015, 04:48 PM   #86
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Default Re: Fellas... I've had enough...

Hey Ryan,
Thanks !! Well thought out and stated and leaves little doubt about what to expect for anyone using an arrogant asshole attitude to abuse the rules of YOUR forum and/or other members ! We all know that actions speak louder than words. So, no need for the enablers to ask...'hey, what ever happen to so/so', he was such a great guy...ha !
OMG...what are we ever going to do ....without the drama of blue haired ladies ? IMO, try it , you'll like it..lol

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Old 08-26-2015, 05:00 PM   #87
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OMG...what are we ever going to do ....without the drama of blue haired ladies ? IMO, try it , you'll like it..lol
I believe you're commenting on what's called the "Blue Rinse Brigade". I usually ignore any confrontations when the talk is about Model A Fords and the maintenance of and that's because I know jack crap about Model A Fords but I do know more now than what I did before coming here but still so far from enough to butt in. What problem I do have is with people with no sense of humor, doesn't matter what, where or who, without humor, any subject would be like listening to a political debate, boring and mostly all lies and.....without humor, a lot of people couldn't mask their pain to continue on with life and enjoy it with like minded people. Try going through life without a laugh or a smile and having to live with demons from the past, it's not possible.
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Old 08-26-2015, 05:22 PM   #88
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Default Re: Fellas... I've had enough...

Just curious if most of the trouble on the Forums comes from the Model A guys, Early V-8 guys, or Model T guys. Some go back and forth I watch Model A and Early V-8 sides.

Counting just today, there were 34 'lines' of threads posted so far today (didn't open each thread and count how many hit that post today just the line item count on the face page) on the Model A side, 41 on the Early V-8 side, and only came up with 12 lines on the Model T side in the past WEEK!

Conclusion: It's those pesky Model T guys causing the trouble Must be because they are so 'cranky'!!
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Old 08-26-2015, 05:27 PM   #89
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Default Re: Fellas... I've had enough...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeff/Illinois View Post
Just curious if most of the trouble on the Forums comes from the Model A guys, Early V-8 guys, or Model T guys. Some go back and forth I watch Model A and Early V-8 sides.

Counting just today, there were 34 'lines' of threads posted so far today (didn't open each thread and count how many hit that post today just the line item count on the face page) on the Model A side, 41 on the Early V-8 side, and only came up with 12 lines on the Model T side in the past WEEK!

Conclusion: It's those pesky Model T guys causing the trouble Must be because they are so 'cranky'!!
Best post on this thread so far...IMO. Lightened the mood, considerably!!!
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Old 08-26-2015, 06:00 PM   #90
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Default Re: Fellas... I've had enough...

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Ryan,
Are P.M.'s REALLY PRIVATE?
Bill W.
They're as private as emails and phone calls, Bills.
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Old 08-26-2015, 06:05 PM   #91
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Default Re: Fellas... I've had enough...

deadhorse.gifthe horse is dead
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Old 08-26-2015, 06:47 PM   #92
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Default Re: Fellas... I've had enough...

Ryan" I agree with all you new rules. I am a Senior member who came over from the old Barn, and as I post infrequently, I mainly review posts that interest me and ignore the others. As for any character problems, this forum is for fixing Fords, and it is no place to display any mental problem someone may have. Cheers Buddy, and keep up the good work.
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Old 08-26-2015, 06:52 PM   #93
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Default Re: Fellas... I've had enough...

Thanks for running a great site Ryan.
I've gotten a lot of good information/help here and I appreciate that.
Thanks,
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Old 08-26-2015, 07:47 PM   #94
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Default Re: Fellas... I've had enough...

...
Attached Images
File Type: jpg Fighting on line 2.jpg (33.8 KB, 15 views)
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Old 08-26-2015, 08:29 PM   #95
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Default Re: Fellas... I've had enough...

Guyís you know as well as I do there are so much going on in this old
world every day, if we canít get along on a site like this with each other and enjoy our old Fordís, then we just as well sign off.
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Old 08-26-2015, 08:30 PM   #96
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Default Re: Fellas... I've had enough...

ryan, very well said. I stopped logging on for a while because I didn't want to read the shit
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Old 08-26-2015, 08:34 PM   #97
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Default Re: Fellas... I've had enough...

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They're as private as emails and phone calls, Bills.
Read our terms of service... Your private messages are just that - PRIVATE.
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Old 08-26-2015, 08:48 PM   #98
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Default Re: Fellas... I've had enough...

Adding to Ryan's work load there are 48,532 names on the roster. We only see a few people posting so there must be a lot of watchers that never post or have only one post.
Thank you Ryan.
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Old 08-26-2015, 10:35 PM   #99
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Ryan,
Here's a partial-solution used by another forum I'm on: require actual names in the signature area.

That is why my name is there. I put my name on everything I say.

A name and phone number might be even better. People are less likely to slam others when they know they can be gotten to. Take your name or number off your signature, and your account is suspended.
Ryan, I feel your pain. I ran the ISP services of a large University as it came into being back in the early birth pains of the Internet. Managing or mentoring the conduct of over thirty thousand hormone drenched international undergrads was bad enough. But through the years I found that the staff and faculty were far more prone to abuse of their privileges. (and membership of the Model A Forum is a privilege!!!)

As an aside, one of the best deterrents I found to abusive commentary was to have one of my staff, a lady of advanced years who looked like a Disney grandma, but was a tough as nails, interview the perpetrators. I have seen members of the varsity football team leave her office in tears.

We did ensure that all our users were registered with their real names and could discover their true identity within minutes. I have always used my real name on any forum in which I have participated, although I have used nom-de-plumes over my name to emphasise a point. (E.G. I used the nom-de-plume 'Kier Hardie' when discussing capitalism, for which I was called a Scottish bastard by a distinguished faculty member from a well known college.)

Further, as part of my professional duties I had to monitor and sometimes participate in several forums pertaining various computing related issues. The abuse and profanities that I suffered for espousing unconventional opinions was incredible. Nobody should suffer any verbal abuse for expressing any opinion that in itself is not couched in inflammatory language.

In my opinion, the to right free speech should not also grant a right to abuse and/or otherwise discomfort any person. If the controlling and confining the damage caused by the abuse of the right to free speech restrains or restricts that right - TOO BAD. Live with it and moderate your language.

Ryan - Keep up the good work.

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Old 08-26-2015, 10:48 PM   #100
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Default Re: Fellas... I've had enough...

I just got here (08-26-15) and I agree.
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Old 08-26-2015, 10:58 PM   #101
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Default Re: Fellas... I've had enough...

Ian Simpson,

You are 100% correct that verified names should be required to post. I would also like to add that a city and state should also be required to post.

With a real name and location, those that hide behind their keyboard will think twice about what they post.

Terry Burtz, Campbell, CA
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Old 08-26-2015, 11:13 PM   #102
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Henry,
My Dear departed wife, Pat, had a sign in her IRS office, "I AIN'T YO' MOMMA"!!
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Bill, I love it. I should have had a sign in my office when dealing with student miscreants stating: " I ain't your friend". Doubly so after I moved into the internal audit office and dealt with computer based frauds.

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Old 08-26-2015, 11:18 PM   #103
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Originally Posted by tbirdtbird View Post
I know of several knowledgeable posters who have quit, myself included, for several reasons, which include open attacks on the forum and hate mails via PM. It is tiring.
Tbirdtbird, I have not always agreed with you, but I have always tried to keep my comments civil. On the one occasion that I think I overstepped civil bounds, I publically apologized. Please do not go away mad because of such incidents from me and others. Although not always in agreement, I value your opinion.
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Old 08-27-2015, 12:00 AM   #104
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Default Re: Fellas... I've had enough...

Just posted a question, first one in months, then read this thread. There are some helpful people here, but for the most part not a "family", I believe this is because of the degree of restoration levels. I'll scroll through the other threads and see if there is anything of interest. Thanks for all you do Ryan. Bob
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Old 08-27-2015, 12:44 AM   #105
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Default Re: Fellas... I've had enough...

This is supposed to be our hobby... our fun time to learn from the ones who've BEEN THERE UNDER THE HOOD a lot longer than me, for instance.

If you had a bad day at work, or with the wife, don't bring it here. I got my own stuff.
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Old 08-27-2015, 01:52 AM   #106
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Default Re: Fellas... I've had enough...

Are we through? I DESPERATELY need to go P** & go to BED--LOL
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Old 08-27-2015, 02:11 AM   #107
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Default Re: Fellas... I've had enough...

Ryan

Excellent post, agree with you 100%
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Old 08-27-2015, 07:07 AM   #108
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Default Re: Fellas... I've had enough...

In reading the comments posted herein, it is obvious that a mutual passionate interest in Ford A's prevails among respondents who strongly appreciate the benefits of participation in this forum. A positive, productive attitude prevails. Here, as in other arenas, for the most part, the good guys outnumber the bad guys.
Ryan, thank you. If there are "negatives", I say,"dump them".
I like to think that I'm here to listen, learn and help.
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Old 08-27-2015, 07:35 AM   #109
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Default Re: Fellas... I've had enough...

While I sort of agree with Ryan and his solution to the problem, I have yet to see a problem. Maybe I'm not looking at enough posts. I'm more concerned with my own missteps and or statements where I Might disagree with someone and they take my statements as being too harsh. I can't recall anyone ever saying "STFU" to someone in here. I jut haven't seen it. Get a grip guys! This is dry technical stuff, not hot and cold romance! I can't imagine someone getting that passionate over axle threads, water pumps, and steering gears, maybe oil or STP.
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Old 08-27-2015, 07:52 AM   #110
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Default Re: Fellas... I've had enough...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ryan View Post
If requiring members of this forum to be civil with each other or, at the very least, to ignore those they don't get along with is an act of censorship, well then... consider me a censor.

Point being, opinions are cool fellas. Opinions will always be welcomed. However, if you can't express an opinion without bagging another person in the process, then this forum will not cater to you.

This is really just a matter of simple manners. Our parents taught us this, right? So, it shouldn't be too hard to extend those principles to a forum about old Fords.

As a forum admin with limited hours in a day to tend to admin manners, the really hard part of all of this to me is this:

I have about ten members that are constantly complaining about one another. If I had the time, I'd go back and look at years of post history to see who started what... But I don't. Further, I don't really care too... It's not fun... and this is supposed to be fun for me too... But because I don't have this context, I have no side in any of these arguments and long standing hate fests. Instead, I tell each side to simply be nice to each other, ignore each other, and move on.

You what the typical response to this is? They ignore me... and continue bashing each other on a forum that I provide to them at no cost what so ever.

That's really the part I'm done with. I'm essentially wiping the slate clean at this point and giving these people one last chance. But, that's it...
Ryan, I just want to say thank you for standing your ground. I don't know who these people are, or what they're complaining about. I, like many on here just want to learn about how to work on these cars. I vote NOT to give these ten members another chance. Kick them out now and let the drama be done so we can get back to what we're here for.
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Old 08-27-2015, 08:05 AM   #111
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Default Re: Fellas... I've had enough...

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Originally Posted by Ryan View Post


If I had the time, I'd go back and look at years of post history to see who started what... But I don't. Further, I don't really care too... It's not fun... and this is supposed to be fun for me too... But because I don't have this context, I have no side in any of these arguments and long standing hate fests. Instead, I tell each side to simply be nice to each other, ignore each other, and move on.


Ryan, I can only relate my personal opinion in this but I strongly believe where a lot of this 'bantering/bickering' has evolved from is in the beginning of this Fordbarn it was stated that this forum would be for the discussion of Restoration topics only with a few sidebars thrown in. For some, this was huge as their passion ( -and interest ) was for the restoration ( repair of an item with some sort of goal of authenticity involved ) of a Model-A. Not for liberal modifications or rodding of a Model-A. Your new site was exciting simply because the old FB site, and the other Model-A forum had become very liberal in this regard.

During this time period, I know that many here ( -both privately & publicly ) tried to protect the(ir) new Fordbarn defending the mission that it was for discussing Restoration only, ...and in the process "drove a wedge" between both sides, -those participants that were for accurate restoration processes, and those who weren't. In some ways, you cannot blame these people who were only trying to defend a forum of which they had freely shared a vast amount of their research/information that had cost them greatly in the forms of time & money.

Right or wrong, ....admittedly or not, many here still resent what happened in the past regarding this defending of turf. Some have chosen to move on, or limit the content they post publicly. Others have been able to overlook the past hurts and try to participate civilly. Some wounds will likely never heal, and others have taken a vast amount of time. I know it is Your Forum and Your Rules ( and I respect that ) but it does bother me somewhat when we look around to see some of the very participants that provided their information that made this forum great, and now they are no longer here, -or rarely post any content now. Just my perspectives on this, and, I do appreciate what you have provided for all of us.
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Old 08-27-2015, 09:02 AM   #112
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Default Re: Fellas... I've had enough...

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There are social cliques in this community... And through posts on the forum as well as through private messages, these cliques seem to be constantly battling each other and seemingly measuring each other's manhood.

The reasoning behind it all baffles me. This is, after all, just a forum about old Fords. I can't, no matter how hard I try, find a rational reason for anyone to attack or ridicule another person over an old Ford.

I have a whole bunch of kids. One of them is 9 and her class recently got to debate on the lunch menu - what is served on what days and things like that. Now if you have a 9 year old, you know how important this is to them. It's like three or four on their life priority list.

Anyway, the parents were told to sit on the sidelines and let the kids go at it while the teacher moderated. They argued back and forth over things like pizza and burgers for an entire hour. In that hour, not a single 9 year old called another 9 year old a name... And not a single 9 year old told another 9 year old to "shut up."

Amazing given the way some of you guys treat each other, isn't it?

I have a theory. Kids are honest. Kids are wholesome. They haven't been tainted by society and they haven't had their ego stomped on by years of the kinds of abuse life can bring. Grown men on the internet, however, are entirely different. Some of them aren't honest. Most aren't wholesome. Some have battered egos. Hide them behind a computer screen with a silly username and an avatar and all of this is amplified to the point of nausea.

If we were all at a bar having this conversation, do you think anyone of you would tell anyone else in the conversation to "shut the fuck up?" And if you did, how long do you think you would be welcome in the group?

So why on earth would you do it on a forum about old Fords?

I believe it's because some of you like the feeling of being something online you really aren't in real life. And some of you like to act online in a way that you are too scared to act offline. In either case, I don't like to host these kinds of fellas. I would rather them not be on my forum at all. Maybe that's my issue... Maybe I should be more understanding of these folks, but I've failed miserably when I have tried.

In any case, I'm done. I'm done baby sitting a bunch of kids at a name calling party.

- Want call some other guy a name because you disagree with him? Your account is gone.

- Want to constantly report another member's posts because you feel he is doing the same to you? Your account is gone.

- Want to team up on another group of members with all your buddies? All of your accounts are gone.

In short, I'm done fellas. It's either you or me... And it isn't gonna be me.

Note: To those of you that are just here to enjoy old Fords, learn a thing or two, or teach something to the masses - please excuse this post and understand that in order to end all of the drama, you might start to see some really common names around here gone.
Nice one.

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Old 08-27-2015, 09:11 AM   #113
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Default Re: Fellas... I've had enough...

Ryan,

I support your idea.

Marc
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Old 08-27-2015, 09:39 AM   #114
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Default Re: Fellas... I've had enough...

When I post a question, I always hope to see a reply from a certain group of knowledgable individuals whose opinions I have grown to respect through reading their past informative posts. Unfortunately, some of these elder statesmen no longer participate or do so infrequently for the reasons Ryan mentioned and that is a big loss to the many of us who look to them for solutions and advice. I urge those of you in this category to reconsider and rejoin the forum for the sake of keeping the hobby alive and cultivating new members.

This is not to say the less experienced or newbies should not post. Even a comment from a first time owner is valuable if he/she is reporting on how they resolved a problem in a way I did not think about.

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Old 08-27-2015, 09:46 AM   #115
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Default Re: Fellas... I've had enough...

I got my first A in Jan 15, I needed help!!! I got endless help just reading the post on here. This site and the knowledge base is incredilbe for those wanting to learn!! I would sure miss this site. Ryan, you fired the warning shot!!!!! THANKS FOR ALL U DO!!! Tim
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Old 08-27-2015, 10:17 AM   #116
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Default Re: Fellas... I've had enough...

Ryan , sounds good to me. I wonder if this is the time to announce my hybrid, 26 roadster on an A frame with an 8ba.. Just testing the water, oh yea and my name is Bruce ....lol
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Old 08-27-2015, 12:12 PM   #117
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Default Re: Fellas... I've had enough...

Hi Ryan,

In your reporting:

"There are social cliques in this community... And through posts on the forum as well as through private messages, these cliques seem to be constantly battling each other and seemingly measuring each other's manhood" ....... plus your subsequent related remarks, I had absolutely no idea this was going on behind the scenes in PM's until this past spring when I received a few private emails in my email account from others on this Forum.

They forwarded some of these condescending PM remarks & their emails to me , and I was shocked to see some of these comments loaded with unfavorable criticism and jealously and who was sending same ...... some appear to have hints of mature, egotistical "grown-up" minds with severe mental illness ..... these are only Model A's.

I'm sure if you had access to PM's ..... and ever posted just a few of these PM's from people who post messages openly, many would realize how serious and concerned you are about maintaining professional helpful attitudes and your concern for the future of this Forum.

Also, as you kindly infer, there are many kind & helpful souls on this Forum willing to assist others.
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Old 08-27-2015, 12:59 PM   #118
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Default Re: Fellas... I've had enough...

As a new Model A owner I just want to thank Ryan and all the members of this forum who offer advise, support, and knowledge. I could not successfully be a happy owner, and drive my A without the information on this forum, I would have given up in frustration. Thank you all for your help.
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Old 08-27-2015, 01:55 PM   #119
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Default Re: Fellas... I've had enough...

I use my real name and address here. I want people to know I am real and can be contacted. In some less desirable forums perhaps hidden identity is wise. But here we are just a bunch a buddies who for the most part, haven't met yet. Think of Brent, marco, bill. Jim brierly, Tom w, Don Turley just to name a few. Stand up guys. Let's all be. None of us want your credit card number....

Curt Campbell, ottumwa IA

Just use your name.
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Old 08-27-2015, 02:44 PM   #120
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Default Re: Fellas... I've had enough...

. None of us want your credit card number....

Curt Campbell, ottumwa IA

Just use your name.[/QUOTE]

Speak for yourself! That's how I financed my 55CV build! :0)
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Old 08-27-2015, 03:00 PM   #121
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Default Re: Fellas... I've had enough...

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Originally Posted by Curt Campbell View Post
I use my real name and address here. I want people to know I am real and can be contacted. In some less desirable forums perhaps hidden identity is wise. But here we are just a bunch a buddies who for the most part, haven't met yet. Think of Brent, marco, bill. Jim brierly, Tom w, Don Turley just to name a few. Stand up guys. Let's all be. None of us want your credit card number....

Curt Campbell, ottumwa IA

Just use your name.
But, Curt,
If we all met everybody in a HUG SESSION, we wouldn't ALL like EVERYBODY! That's just LIFE, get USED to it. We wouldn't ALL like EVERONES' CARS, just because they were MODEL A's (ONLY IN A PERFECT WORLD!)
Bill W.
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Old 08-27-2015, 03:35 PM   #122
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Default Re: Fellas... I've had enough...

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Get a grip guys! This is dry technical stuff, not hot and cold romance! I can't imagine someone getting that passionate over axle threads, water pumps, and steering gears, maybe oil or STP.
Terry
Terry,

I totally agree with your comments about axle threads and steering gears however, water pumps and certainly STP can be very passionate subjects

Again, JUST MY OBSERVATIONS!!!!

Chris W.
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Old 08-27-2015, 03:44 PM   #123
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Default Re: Fellas... I've had enough...

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But, Curt,
That's just LIFE, get USED to it.
Bill W.
I've yet Bill to read a comment about growing some thick skin which is what I suggest, feelings won't get hurt so easy, in turn, less bitchin to Ryan!!!!
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Old 08-27-2015, 04:15 PM   #124
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Default Re: Fellas... I've had enough...

If the site is only about perfectly restored vehicles then I will never be able to say a word. With 5 Model A's, 5 T's and numerous V-8's that will never be perfect because of lack of knowledge, ability and funds for perfection then so be it. I DO enjoy learning about all the quirks and differences in the cars. Sometimes things get a little rough for various reasons I let it slide. The Barn has been great and I have told many about the site and hope they have enjoyed it also. Philip Ewald
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Old 08-27-2015, 04:47 PM   #125
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Default Re: Fellas... I've had enough...

Thanks Ryan for your site. It is a great site for information about all types of Model A's. It is YOUR site-run it the way YOU want to run it!
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Old 08-27-2015, 05:40 PM   #126
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Default Re: Fellas... I've had enough...

Here's a little story that really helps me keep my online persona in check.

A few years ago, on the HAMB, there was a member who had passed away and his daughter went online searching for him. She was pleasantly surprised to see he had this whole life filled with car/hobbyist buddies she hadn't realized. She saw his posts and conversations and it was very fulfilling to a woman who'd lost her dad.

I think about that, often. Someday my children could be looking me up, after I pass, and see what type of man I was online. What would they think if their dad was pretentious or a troll or bitter, jealous, unhelpful, ungrateful, etc.?

So, I would like to think I share a decent representation of who I am outside of the Internet. Should they ever look me up after my demise, I want them to have a good reminder of the man I was (am).
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Old 08-27-2015, 07:44 PM   #127
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Default Re: Fellas... I've had enough...

Nice story, Brent. It puts into perspective the relevance of our daily concerns to our long-term value. Thanks for sharing.
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Old 08-27-2015, 11:54 PM   #128
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Default Re: Fellas... I've had enough...

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Are we through? I DESPERATELY need to go P** & go to BED--LOL
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Old 08-28-2015, 12:00 AM   #129
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Default Re: Fellas... I've had enough...

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If the site is only about perfectly restored vehicles then I will never be able to say a word. With 5 Model A's, 5 T's and numerous V-8's that will never be perfect because of lack of knowledge, ability and funds for perfection then so be it. I DO enjoy learning about all the quirks and differences in the cars. Sometimes things get a little rough for various reasons I let it slide. The Barn has been great and I have told many about the site and hope they have enjoyed it also. Philip Ewald

I believe you have an incorrect assumption, If the site is only about perfectly restored vehicles then I will never be able to say a word.

You don't have to have a perfectly restored car to contribute to the forum even if it were 100% dedicated to fine point cars. What does a fine point car have to do with engine troubles, what to fix it my car has a shimmy or hard steering? Do you have to have a fine point car to answer questions like; "What do they mean when they say indented fire wall?"

Remember the only stupid question is one not asked.

As for the original start to all this, Ryan this is your site to do with as you please and run it as you will. I would be lying if I did not say I have seen mixed messages from you but that is my problem not yours.

My only hope is that you truly see what this site means to the Model A community, as your HAMB site is to the traditional hot rodders. I been to enough sites to see Fordbarn and HAMB mentioned as places to go to get more information and that would never happen if it were not a source of knowledge.

I support you not only in words but I also purchased both of the Jalopy Journals to help with some of the expenses.

Mike
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Old 08-28-2015, 07:25 AM   #130
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Default Re: Fellas... I've had enough...

How do we say "I think you are wrong about this or that!" and not open ourselves to a charge of "Bullying"? As my old Irish grandfather would say "You have to be able to tell a man to go to hell and have him looking forward to the trip!" However, Not everyone is that verbally skilled and sometimes it comes out more like "You Fornicating imbecile, You can't do that!" Sometimes, we are really showing our "Humanity" and really tell him what a lowlife, not only he is, but his ancestors as well! Then five minutes later (after we hit the send button) we see the light and wished we hadn't of sent it. Maybe it was a tad too harsh. His ancestors really weren't that bad. But it's usually too late!
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Old 08-28-2015, 07:41 AM   #131
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Default Re: Fellas... I've had enough...

I've been quiet since I have not been involved, but there is a good point made two posts earlier. Not all here have the money or the desire to faithfully restore an old car. But to fix up old iron and keep it on the road is to me a good goal. I bought a car that has sat for years with an incomplete restoration and a good bit mechanically wrong. Now I'm driving my old car weekly and while it is not a completely faithful restoration, it is a blast to drive and it gets noticed everywhere I go.
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Old 08-28-2015, 09:38 AM   #132
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Default Re: Fellas... I've had enough...

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Originally Posted by wbedwards View Post
I've been quiet since I have not been involved, but there is a good point made two posts earlier. Not all here have the money or the desire to faithfully restore an old car. But to fix up old iron and keep it on the road is to me a good goal. I bought a car that has sat for years with an incomplete restoration and a good bit mechanically wrong. Now I'm driving my old car weekly and while it is not a completely faithful restoration, it is a blast to drive and it gets noticed everywhere I go.
Me too Wbedwards...

And, this Forum is fantastic for this all thumbs kid that just loves Model As. Brent's superb post explains a lot.

Thanks a million Ryan for saving and enhancing the Ford Barn. It's a life savior for us newbies and so much fun (the negative chaps have missed me).
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Old 08-28-2015, 10:15 AM   #133
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Default Re: Fellas... I've had enough...

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Originally Posted by Skibb View Post
...Thanks a million Ryan for saving and enhancing the Ford Barn. It's a life savior for us newbies and so much fun...
Yep - couldn't have said it better myself - I knew zilch...nada...nothing...about the care and feeding of Model As when I got mine almost four years ago now, this forum has been an invaluable resource that I much appreciate
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Old 08-28-2015, 10:37 AM   #134
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Default Re: Fellas... I've had enough...

Brent's story brings everything into perspective, about whay our hobby is all about and how we should approach our fellow hobbyists.

Even though I am in the Model A industry these days, twenty years ago when I got my first model A, I knew absolutely nothing about them.

At that time, I bought every book available to learn about the model A, and only wish that there was a fabulous forum like this one, back then.

Unfortunately, in other areas of business, I have seen people beaten up on forums, which is why I tend to stay in the background. I only made my first post on here a few days ago, but Ryan's issues have brought to light once again, weather to even tempt faith and try to help someone.

enough of my babbling. Keep up this great forum Ryan!
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Old 08-28-2015, 11:06 AM   #135
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Default Re: Fellas... I've had enough...

Ryan,

You are so right . That's the reason I hardly visit anymore let alone responding to questions,

Gerard
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Old 08-28-2015, 11:28 AM   #136
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Default Re: Fellas... I've had enough...

I agree with Ryan.

The suggestion of a user's name and address is right on.

Thanks Ryan for trying to clean the place up.

JD
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Old 08-28-2015, 11:53 AM   #137
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Default Re: Fellas... I've had enough...

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I agree with Ryan.

The suggestion of a user's name and address is right on.

Thanks Ryan for trying to clean the place up.

JD
I agree with this 100%. Thanks Ryan!!!
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Old 08-28-2015, 03:16 PM   #138
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Default Re: Fellas... I've had enough...

For the low price of just $29.95 we can tell you everything there is to know about anyone, birth records, financial records, IRS returns, criminal record, you name the person and place and you'll get anything you want for the low price of $29.95!!!!!

Sorry, but my privacy is worth more than $29.95. Certain people that I have grown to know here on the Ford Barn have my name and location and that's how I put it out..........................not for every Tom, Dick and Harry to know. PERIOD!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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Old 08-28-2015, 05:25 PM   #139
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Default Re: Fellas... I've had enough...

Two things! I think you can get someone's life story for less than thirty bucks! And, like you, I prefer to be able to withhold some info about my self. And as a object lesson, Id like to tell a little tale about monkeying around with someone's privacy! Some years ago, I was delving into politics and we were faced with a tough opposition candidate. He was young, bright, good looking and successful. So someone (A retired cop) got the bright idea to buy a online search for him. He had a fairly unusual last name which made it easy. He found a person of the same name had done time in North Carolina for marijuana possession. He on his own, thinking he was doing the right thing, exposed this "fact" all over town. Needless to say, it got back to the candidate and our guy was soon facing a lawsuit. Coincidentally, some else with the exact same name had done this. The person in town was different. They were able to get the credit card number of our guy who ordered the search (on his own) and they hoisted him on his own petard as it were. It was a very ugly situation! I was not involved and could be an onlooker, estatic that I had no role in this Cluster _ _ _ _! But I have always remembered what someone tried to do and it backfired, big time! I have often thought how would I like being that innocent person being dumped on for something I didn't do, just because their name was the same as mine! I say, Leave privacy matters alone. They can come back to bite you.
Terry





Quote:
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For the low price of just $29.95 we can tell you everything there is to know about anyone, birth records, financial records, IRS returns, criminal record, you name the person and place and you'll get anything you want for the low price of $29.95!!!!!

Sorry, but my privacy is worth more than $29.95. Certain people that I have grown to know here on the Ford Barn have my name and location and that's how I put it out..........................not for every Tom, Dick and Harry to know. PERIOD!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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Old 08-28-2015, 05:39 PM   #140
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Two things! I think you can get someone's life story for less than thirty bucks! And, like you, I prefer to be able to withhold some info about my self. And as a object lesson, Id like to tell a little tale about monkeying around with someone's privacy! Some years ago, I was delving into politics and we were faced with a tough opposition candidate. He was young, bright, good looking and successful. So someone (A retired cop) got the bright idea to buy a online search for him. He had a fairly unusual last name which made it easy. He found a person of the same name had done time in North Carolina for marijuana possession. He on his own, thinking he was doing the right thing, exposed this "fact" all over town. Needless to say, it got back to the candidate and our guy was soon facing a lawsuit. Coincidentally, some else with the exact same name had done this. The person in town was different. They were able to get the credit card number of our guy who ordered the search (on his own) and they hoisted him on his own petard as it were. It was a very ugly situation! I was not involved and could be an onlooker, estatic that I had no role in this Cluster _ _ _ _! But I have always remembered what someone tried to do and it backfired, big time! I have often thought how would I like being that innocent person being dumped on for something I didn't do, just because their name was the same as mine! I say, Leave privacy matters alone. They can come back to bite you.
Terry

Exactly....

Today, things are nothing but a "reality show", doesn't matter what the truth is, people like to start crap just for the hell of it, then they just sit back and watch, laughing while sparks fly. In today's society it's more and more important to guard one's privacy no matter how law abiding and innocent anyone can be, there is always someone out there to do harm in one way or another.
If I need help on Sarah, I have two email addresses of two Barners I can go for help, if leaving the Barn preserves my privacy. I'll get a few more too before I sign off for the last time...........
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Old 08-28-2015, 05:52 PM   #141
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Smile Re: Fellas... I've had enough...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Brent View Post
Here's a little story that really helps me keep my online persona in check.

So, I would like to think I share a decent representation of who I am outside of the Internet. Should they ever look me up after my demise, I want them to have a good reminder of the man I was (am).
Brent:
Ditto Ditto Ditto....
You've you couldn't have said it better.
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Old 08-29-2015, 12:19 AM   #142
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Default Re: Fellas... I've had enough...

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How do we say "I think you are wrong about this or that!" and not open ourselves to a charge of "Bullying"?
Terry
There is a difference between "I think you are wrong.." and "I think your information is wrong."

Here is what I try to do now;

Old way "I think you are wrong about this or that!."

New way, first I drop the exclamation point, then I word it, "I have always heard that it is done this way or that" Then try to add some source of where you received the information that differs with theirs, "I remember it from reading it here on the barn.."

See, no "attack" on the person just a question on the facts. Is it possible that it will seen as an attack, yea. Remember what I said earlier about long held beliefs. The good thing about wording it as a question of facts is that Ryan should be able to see the post for what it is.
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Old 08-30-2015, 02:46 PM   #143
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Default Re: Fellas... I've had enough...

Ryan, I appreciate the forum and it's contents.. also your message.
I have had a great deal of experience with cars and mechanics..but my recent purchase of a Model A and dealing with things that were different than my previous experience was a shock. This forum and it's content was/ is extremely helpful and had helped me to proceed with getting this car on the road.
I have not had the experience you speak of, but have seen some it surface in past posts.
I figure that as long as I can post a question about the car, and get an answer that is helpful ... I am happy. I have offered help where I can, or at least made the effort.
I am still learning, and will continue to no matter how long I have been in this hobby.
I can do without the infighting and complaints about other peoples posts or thoughts.
I am here to learn and help where I can.
Thanks for the opportunity.
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Old 08-31-2015, 02:19 AM   #144
OHV DeLuxe
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Join Date: May 2010
Location: Norway
Posts: 287
Default Re: Fellas... I've had enough...

Great post Ryan!
Lets just enjoy our old Fords and be helpful. In my eyes old car or MC guys are allies in general.
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