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Old 02-08-2014, 05:49 PM   #1
Heard
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Default Do I really have to find a spring spreader?

I've read a bunch of posts about spring spreaders. I tried to use Old Henry's idea of leaving the suspension hanging and using a bottle jack to relieve tension so I could take the shackles off. I couldn't make that work at all so I just pulled the whole thing out intact. Will the all thread through the center hole work now or not? I'm having a hard time visualizing how this will relieve the tension.

I'm sure there will be opinions about how to proceed...and I'm interested in hearing them. BTW, I apparently have 2 different axles in there as the nuts holding the hubs on are 2 different sizes. Also, the hubs were not torqued anywhere near the 200 ft. lbs I've read about. They pretty much just popped right off without any special effort.

Here is what I have now. It is completely free of the chassis, I just didn't have the room to move it anywhere so I slid it back under the car.

[IMG][/IMG]
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Old 02-08-2014, 05:56 PM   #2
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Default Re: Do I really have to find a spring spreader?

All thread and good G clamps will do fine.
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Old 02-08-2014, 06:02 PM   #3
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Default Re: Do I really have to find a spring spreader?

Curious, what's your plan? Rebuilding the rear axle assembly?
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Old 02-08-2014, 06:09 PM   #4
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Default Re: Do I really have to find a spring spreader?

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Curious, what's your plan? Rebuilding the rear axle assembly?
Yes. I want to put 3.54 gears in there. This is just part of my project that started out as a leaking master cylinder and crappy brakes.
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Old 02-08-2014, 06:50 PM   #5
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Default Re: Do I really have to find a spring spreader?

Heard i used a car bumper jack. I am not recommending it, but i did do it and it worked. I could have gotten killed to. Desperate men do desperate things.
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Old 02-08-2014, 07:09 PM   #6
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Default Re: Do I really have to find a spring spreader?

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Originally Posted by Heard View Post
Will the all thread through the center hole work now or not? I'm having a hard time visualizing how this will relieve the tension.

Once you use the "C" clamps and all-thread to remove the loose spring leaves, you can manipulate the remaining main leaf with your hands.
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Old 02-08-2014, 07:23 PM   #7
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Default Re: Do I really have to find a spring spreader?

You are right about getting different opinions on this one. All-Thread has very little tensile strength and as such will not bend too far without failing.
Being a retired tool & die maker, I would hope I have a better understanding than many in regard to various metals, what they are designed for and when NOT to use them. Yeah, All-Thread has worked for some. However, do you want to be the guy that it doesn't work for?
Do yourself and your family a favor - round up a spring spreader.

The fact that both axle nuts came off with little effort tells me you'd be wise to check those axles very carefully for cracks (developing) before reinstalling them. I'd hate to see you go though all of this work only to have one or both fail in the future.
More often than not, those nuts, not being properly tightened set up the process of axle failure.
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Old 02-08-2014, 07:35 PM   #8
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Default Re: Do I really have to find a spring spreader?

c clamps and a center bolt will work fine, dont use c clamps from harbor frieght, the metal in them can be questionable, buy a long center bolt stack the springs and tighten them with the clamps and the center bolt at the same time, when done just cut off the exta length from the center bolt, as was said, the main leaf can be installed by hand, then stack the rest and tighten
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Old 02-08-2014, 07:37 PM   #9
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Default Re: Do I really have to find a spring spreader?

OK, Heard, since you proceeded to plan B out of turn,you can no longer use Old Henry's method even if you did understand it. Now you can either get a spring spreader or a Porta-Power, or use the long all-thread as described above. That method entails the use of large C clamps to hold the leaves together, then to remove the center bolt and replace it with the allthread. Keeping the C clamps now only for safety, unscrew the nut from the allthread to relieve pressure from the leaves.

On your axles, if the housings match, the axles match. I suppose it would be possible to mismatch housings, like to use a '42-'48 with a '41 on the other side, but for no good reason I can think of other than some racing application.

You wanna go with a 3.54, do you know what's in there now? Looks like a recent build from the picture, you might be surprised what you find.


With respect to Kube's post, he is referring to the use of allthread as a home made spring spreader. What I and I believe the rest of us mean is t use allthread as a means to dismantle the spring pak.
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Old 02-08-2014, 07:39 PM   #10
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Default Re: Do I really have to find a spring spreader?

...here's a little snippet that "Pete" posted yesterday in another thread on disc brakes...

"More will spend a lot of time trying to convince you that you should do it their way. Most of the info these people offer is usually useless."

....most of the above replies go a long way towards proving Pete's point ( except for Kube)....get yourself a decent spring spreader if you value your limbs. There is an astounding amount of stored energy in a back spring , don't make the mistake of taking poor advice and then finding out the hard way that,yes,you do need one!
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Old 02-08-2014, 08:06 PM   #11
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Default Re: Do I really have to find a spring spreader?

To use the all thread method:

Put c-clamps on both sides of the center bolt
Remove center bolt
Put all thread in center bolt hole with nuts on both sides (flat washers under the nuts make them go easier). Tighten nuts.
Remove clamps
Loosen one nut on all thread until all tension is off the leaves
Remove leaves
You can now remove main leaf by hand

To put spring back together:
First put main leaf on
Put other leaves on in order
Put all thread ( with a nut on one side of leaf package) in center hole, lining up the leafs.
Put nut on other side of leaf package and tighten until fully compressed
Put c-clamps on both sides of all thread.
Remove all-thread and insert center bolt
Tighten to spec.
Remove clamps.
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Old 02-08-2014, 08:07 PM   #12
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Default Re: Do I really have to find a spring spreader?

Ok so you dont come up with a new handlebar name of Toothless this is the simplest way to remove your spring without a spring spreader. Take two heavy duty Clamps and clamp them on each side of the spring stack about 1" off the spring center bolt. With the springs clamped tightly, loosen the center bolt and remove the nut leaving the center bolt in place. Now slowly release the clamping pressure on the spring by alternately loosing the "c"clamps 1 to 2 turns at a time. When the stack tension is released you can then undo the spring shackle nuts and place a little body weight on the main leaf to relieve tension and pop off the spring shackle bars freeing up the spring. To reinstall the spring, reverse the process, stack the leafs in order on the center bolt and position the pack over the center bolt main leaf hole and draw the spring leaf back down tight with the "c" clamps and tighten the center bolt nut.

Backyard mechanics 101... You can make a simple spring spreader out of 1 1/2" water pipe about 2.5' long and 1" threaded rod about 2' long that will fit inside the pipe, a couple nuts and washers. Smash one the end of the pipe down to a V and taper grind the threaded rod down to a deep taper V point. Run the nut down to the V point on the threaded rod and place 2 flat washers on the side of the nut with the longest threads. Slide the threaded rod inside the pipe and adjust the nut to spread the threaded section to the span of the spring, holding the pipe in place rotate the nut to expand the spread of the threaded rod until you can easily clamp the shackle bars in position.
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Old 02-08-2014, 08:32 PM   #13
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Default Re: Do I really have to find a spring spreader?

Heard,
I just did a fast check on eBay and there is one advertised for $129 or best offer. Looks pretty beefy and the seller has sold 80 of them. He has 100% feedback.

You may want to ask him a few questions about his product if you are interested. I am glad you understand the danger.

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http://www.ebay.com/itm/Ford-Model-A...b003b0&vxp=mtr
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Old 02-08-2014, 08:36 PM   #14
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Default Re: Do I really have to find a spring spreader?

Basically I follow Dick's first paragraph ^ but with one difference. I apply clamps as he does, but then push out the center bolt and replace it with a length of drill rod, or even plain round stock. Same for assembly, I use the drill rod and my C-clamps are 8" and stout. Always works fine and safely.
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Old 02-08-2014, 09:07 PM   #15
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Default Re: Do I really have to find a spring spreader?

I've got a homemade spreader ( built as Dick describes) that gets passed around locally. Actually, we have lost track who really owns it but it lives in the corner of my shop....

Are you using a 10 spline pinion set? I put a really nice used set of 3.54s Six spline in my 35 coupe from a 46 Ford rear. I used a 39 driveshaft to avoid the usual problems.
I don't know your car but tha 3.54 pulls kind of hard with a stock mill...
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Old 02-08-2014, 09:18 PM   #16
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Default Re: Do I really have to find a spring spreader?

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Heard i used a car bumper jack. I am not recommending it, but i did do it and it worked. I could have gotten killed to. Desperate men do desperate things.
Marv, you cracked me up with that. I'm not sure what to say.
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Old 02-08-2014, 09:37 PM   #17
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Default Re: Do I really have to find a spring spreader?

Dang it, Alan. I did move to plan B. It wasn't my plan B though...I think someone else recommended that in another thread featuring my inexperience.

Seriously, thanks for all the input on this. I'm very appreciative. I'll let you know how I proceed. Having a spring spreader sounds appealing in some regards since I have a few of these springs I want to work on. So I might buy that one on ebay. But I may try the all thread method first with extra safety clamps.

Stay tuned....more questions to follow.
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Old 02-08-2014, 09:43 PM   #18
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Default Re: Do I really have to find a spring spreader?

dont use all thread, its not strong enough to be safe, get a long center bolt, get a center bolt an inch longer than the uncompressed spring, the center bolt keeps the spring in position and you dont have to install it when the spring is fully compressed, and please dont use cheap c clamps
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Old 02-08-2014, 09:45 PM   #19
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Default Re: Do I really have to find a spring spreader?

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dont use all thread, its not strong enough to be safe, get a long center bolt, get a center bolt an inch longer than the uncompressed spring
Well...while I might agree with you...you are going to have to tell me how long that should be, cause I've never seen this particular spring uncompressed.
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Old 02-08-2014, 09:51 PM   #20
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Default Re: Do I really have to find a spring spreader?

lol i wish i could, but you will know how long when you disasemble the spring
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Old 02-08-2014, 10:01 PM   #21
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Default Re: Do I really have to find a spring spreader?

I picked up a good spreader on the ebay site for around 75. Great investment as i see it. Always there if i need it and i believe it will retain value. I guess There is a hundred ways to skin a cat... As they say, never tried.

The main problem with using a jack is the down force. I did the front end on my 38 years ago and had to use 4-5 bags of concrete to act as the engine weight because the engine was on a bench. Same as trying to install a rear spring. No down force, you just lift the car up.

Dicks post is interesting and informative. Probably the best way outside a spreader.

It can be done without a good spreader but a good spreader makes it so easy. Bar a reverse eye spring then its a whole new animal.

Whatever gets the job done and you feel safe. My 2 cents.

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Old 02-08-2014, 10:06 PM   #22
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Default Re: Do I really have to find a spring spreader?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Old Col View Post
...here's a little snippet that "Pete" posted yesterday in another thread on disc brakes...

"More will spend a lot of time trying to convince you that you should do it their way. Most of the info these people offer is usually useless."

....most of the above replies go a long way towards proving Pete's point ( except for Kube)....get yourself a decent spring spreader if you value your limbs. There is an astounding amount of stored energy in a back spring , don't make the mistake of taking poor advice and then finding out the hard way that,yes,you do need one!

Got to disagree. I've used Dick's and others' suggestion many times without incident. You don't absolutely need a spring spreader for what he is trying to do.

I'll add one more step to the C clamp method. I also use small squares of 2X4 between the clamps and the spring. Seems to spread the force around a little more.
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Old 02-08-2014, 10:20 PM   #23
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Default Re: Do I really have to find a spring spreader?

[QUOTE=Straightpipes;820009]I've got a homemade spreader ( built as Dick describes) that gets passed around locally. Actually, we have lost track who really owns it but it lives in the corner of my shop....

Straightpipes, can you post a pic of your homemade spreader. I will be rebuilding my axle this spring or summer if the cold weather ever ends.
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Old 02-08-2014, 10:43 PM   #24
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Default Re: Do I really have to find a spring spreader?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Heard View Post
Well...while I might agree with you...you are going to have to tell me how long that should be, cause I've never seen this particular spring uncompressed.
That's where the drill rod or round stock comes in. Your center bolt is too short to help with dissassembly and then if you get a long center bolt to aid in reassembly you will only be cutting it down afterward anyway.
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Old 02-08-2014, 11:15 PM   #25
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Default Re: Do I really have to find a spring spreader?

thats what the c clamps are for, remove the center bolt nut and let the spring decompress by loosing the c clamps
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Old 02-09-2014, 12:33 AM   #26
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Default Re: Do I really have to find a spring spreader?

Don't even consider removing this Spring without a Spreader.
If it is dodgy using Clamps on a regular spring, try spreading a 32 - 34 Ford Rear Spring, which curve, without a proper Spring Spreader.
In my Home Garage, I have this Australian made Litchfield Ford Spring Spreader, which was made in Adelaide probably 50 years ago. It comes with different size Tubes for the various applications. Take a look at the Chart (or what is left of it) & it lists what Pieces are required for that particular application, listing the various Years of Vehicles and whether it is a Front or Read Spring that you are working on.
It is a very valuable Tool for the Early Ford V8 Home Mechanic. It does not have a Ratchet, but you just slide the Handle sideways and move to the next position. The adjacent Split Ring prevents the Handle from slipping off.
This is an invaluable tool & makes Spring removal safe.
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Old 02-09-2014, 02:17 AM   #27
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Default Re: Do I really have to find a spring spreader?

i use my port-a-power
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Old 02-09-2014, 03:34 AM   #28
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Talking Re: Do I really have to find a spring spreader?

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Marv, you cracked me up with that. I'm not sure what to say.
Heard it was not quite as bad as it sounded. I welded a piece of pipe on the end of the jack and cut a rounded recess in the pipe to match the spring and used the part that went under the bumper on the other end of the spring with pipe welded the same way on it.
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Old 02-09-2014, 08:15 AM   #29
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Default Re: Do I really have to find a spring spreader?

Bud
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Ford-Model-A...b003b0&vxp=mtr[/QUOTE]


I can tell you @ $129.90 FREE shipping included That Guy ain't Getting rich off of that tool !!!!!!!
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Old 02-09-2014, 10:07 AM   #30
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Default Re: Do I really have to find a spring spreader?

Two well-meaning folks in this thread have referenced this particular spring spreader on fleaBay. If I was Heard and bought that spreader based on that advice and reference, I'd probably be pissed when it showed-up and tried to use it on a '36 rear spring. Do you guys realize why it's labeled for MODELS "A" & "T"? Do you realize why it's shaped with that arch in it's middle? HINT: "A"s and "T"s have that high-arched spring DIRECTLY over the rear end. That high arch ain't gonna clear the low arch of a '36 spring. Plus, the threads on those 1/2" adjuster bolts ain't gonna last very many spreadings. DD
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Old 02-09-2014, 10:54 AM   #31
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Default Re: Do I really have to find a spring spreader?

I have a big a$$ American made C clamp. I clamp the spring next to the center bolt and remove the center bolt and replace it with the all thread. The all thread is just a allignment tool as all the load is always taken by the C clamp. I back off the all thread a little and then the C clamp and then repeat. The all thread is just to make sure the leaves don't shift and have the clamp move. I have never seen any movement. The all thred is needed when re- assembling to keep the holes lined up
I have a portapower and also a spreader made from pipe. I prefer the C clamp if I am taking the spring apart. I remove the shackles while the spring is still under the car if just removing the complete spring. It is allways nice to take the spring apart to inspect, clean, and lube.
I have cut the shackles with a torch to remove springs. It is impresive how hard they jump when released.

Last edited by Andy; 02-09-2014 at 11:01 AM.
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Old 02-09-2014, 11:06 AM   #32
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Default Re: Do I really have to find a spring spreader?

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Originally Posted by V8COOPMAN View Post
Two well-meaning folks in this thread have referenced this particular spring spreader on fleaBay. If I was Heard and bought that spreader based on that advice and reference, I'd probably be pissed when it showed-up and tried to use it on a '36 rear spring. Do you guys realize why it's labeled for MODELS "A" & "T"? Do you realize why it's shaped with that arch in it's middle? HINT: "A"s and "T"s have that high-arched spring DIRECTLY over the rear end. That high arch ain't gonna clear the low arch of a '36 spring. Plus, the threads on those 1/2" adjuster bolts ain't gonna last very many spreadings. DD
I guess I am the 2nd of the TWO WELL-MEANING FOLKS I don't think Bud Or my self said to go get this one it is the cats meow and end all of all spring spreaders Bud merely said that there was one there / maybe so Heard could see one type & may give him Ideas of how he may want to make one.
My point was that for that price it entails Quit a bit of work to make.

Your point that one has to be aware that a spreader for a model A / T because of the high arch may not work on his applacation and was a good point to make.
I am sure that a lot of us never gave that a thought.

In a dream world we would all have a complete set of KRW tools sitting in our shop.

No matter how He or any one attempts to acomplish this or any other job
remember SAFETY 1st and keep in mind IT IS ONLY A HOBBIE { that 1's for you Heard }
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Old 02-09-2014, 11:10 AM   #33
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Default Re: Do I really have to find a spring spreader?

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Two well-meaning folks in this thread have referenced this particular spring spreader on fleaBay. If I was Heard and bought that spreader based on that advice and reference, I'd probably be pissed when it showed-up and tried to use it on a '36 rear spring. Do you guys realize why it's labeled for MODELS "A" & "T"? Do you realize why it's shaped with that arch in it's middle? HINT: "A"s and "T"s have that high-arched spring DIRECTLY over the rear end. That high arch ain't gonna clear the low arch of a '36 spring. Plus, the threads on those 1/2" adjuster bolts ain't gonna last very many spreadings. DD

You could be right on. But the ad says also for Early V-8 even though it does look like an after thought. I do not clearly understand about the arch being too high on the spreader. Why couldn't the arch be placed in any position to spread the spring or am I missing something?

Ford Model A T Rear End Leaf Spring Spreader Early V8
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Old 02-09-2014, 11:13 AM   #34
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Default Re: Do I really have to find a spring spreader?

I guess I need some enlightenment here......guess I don't understand how referenced spreader would not work on Heard's '36 spring?
Now a straight spreader on a Model A axle would be the real problem....
Joe

Quote:
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I guess I am the 2nd of the TWO WELL-MEANING FOLKS I don't think Bud Or my self said to go get this one it is the cats meow and end all of all spring spreaders Bud merely said that there was one there / maybe so Heard could see one type & may give him Ideas of how he may want to make one.
My point was that for that price it entails Quit a bit of work to make.

Your point that one has to be aware that a spreader for a model A / T because of the high arch may not work on his applacation and was a good point to make.
I am sure that a lot of us never gave that a thought.

In a dream world we would all have a complete set of KRW tools sitting in our shop.

No matter how He or any one attempts to acomplish this or any other job
remember SAFETY 1st and keep in mind IT IS ONLY A HOBBIE { that 1's for you Heard }
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Old 02-09-2014, 11:30 AM   #35
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Default Re: Do I really have to find a spring spreader?

Heard, Please take plenty of photos and informative detailed notes on the steps for dismantalling your rear and installing the 3:54 so others can learn "how to". Thanks.

Oh, Here's an idea for a spring spreader that worked for me. What you see in the photo is about 38 inches long. I am sure you could find a smaller turn buckle that would work. I cut and re-welded the turn buckle to make it longer.

IDEA.If you are near enough to me in FL come over and you can borrow it. I am in Coral Springs, Fl just off the turnpike. I made it to remove my rear 1940 Ford spring 40 years ago. It works and that 1 1/2 in. dia . steel rod does not flex. Neither does the turn buckle. It must weigh about 8 pounds.
http://turnpikeinfo.com/florida/gps/...=south&mile=71
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Last edited by 19Fordy; 02-09-2014 at 12:20 PM. Reason: If you are near enough to me in FL come over and borrow it. I am in Coral
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Old 02-09-2014, 11:40 AM   #36
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Default Re: Do I really have to find a spring spreader?

Idle question. Is it possible to rotate the spring leaves around the center bolt if you have backed off the nut a turn or two? Wouldn't that relieve the spring pressure if the leaves weren't stacked on top of each other?
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Old 02-09-2014, 12:52 PM   #37
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No Bub, the amount of arch built into the spring will not allow that and it is multiplied by the number of leaves. It is the arch that makes the spring do what it does.
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Old 02-09-2014, 01:48 PM   #38
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Default Re: Do I really have to find a spring spreader?

Oh, Here's an idea for a spring spreader that worked for me. What you see in the photo is about 38 inches long. I am sure you could find a smaller turn buckle that would work. I cut and re-welded the turn buckle to make it longer....

19Fordy, i'd say you got very lucky with that one. I can't think of a worse idea for a home made spreader than a turn buckle. Turn buckles are not intended for pushing, and are very liable to BUCKLE under that pressure.

The relative safety of any tool is dependent on the user. Experience and common horse sense instills caution and care in most of us, with the possible exception of those sporting physical evidence of multiple accidents. A spring spreader accident can happen with the best of spreaders if the user fails to engage his brain before his brawn.
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Old 02-09-2014, 01:56 PM   #39
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Oh, Here's an idea for a spring spreader that worked for me. What you see in the photo is about 38 inches long. I am sure you could find a smaller turn buckle that would work. I cut and re-welded the turn buckle to make it longer....

19Fordy, i'd say you got very lucky with that one. I can't think of a worse idea for a home made spreader than a turn buckle. Turn buckles are not intended for pushing, and are very liable to BUCKLE under that pressure.

The relative safety of any tool is dependent on the user. Experience and common horse sense instills caution and care in most of us, with the possible exception of those sporting physical evidence of multiple accidents. A spring spreader accident can happen with the best of spreaders if the user fails to engage his brain before his brawn.
I am not a turnbuckle expert, but if you could see the size of this turn buckle and it's components, I think you would agree it's safe to use.
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Old 02-09-2014, 01:58 PM   #40
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No, never. I repeat, there can't be a worse idea for a spreader.
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Old 02-09-2014, 02:21 PM   #41
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No, never. I repeat, there can't be a worse idea for a spreader.
I respectfully disagree when it comes to using this turnbuckle and rod as a component of a spring spreader.. Even though turnbuckles are used 'in tension" it would take a tremendous amount of compression force to bend the 1 1/2 inch dia. rod. And, if the turnbuckle loop was "boxed" it would not spread, for sure. If anyone has used a Port-A-Power with a psi gauge to spread a 1940-48 car spring please let us know how much force was required Here's an interesting chart.
http://www.rigging.net/Turnbuckle.html
Here's an interesting video. Notice the small dia. of the rod where it fails. Just imagine what compressive force would be needed if that rod was 1 1/2 in. dia.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qeMMTwL-wAc
Plus, I have also seen photos of a turnbuckle jack which incurs compression forces in it's use. For example, here''s amotorcycle jack. http://www.faqs.org/patents/app/20100001239

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Old 02-09-2014, 03:19 PM   #42
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Default Re: Do I really have to find a spring spreader?

I would, a loaded spring pack stores a allot of energy. If you have a heavy piece of flat stock, angle iron. heavy walled pipe with 1 inch ID, a 1 in threaded rod, nut, heavy flat washer or thrust washer, and a welder you can make one pretty easily. Here is pic of mine.
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Old 02-09-2014, 05:00 PM   #43
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ok guys go back to post #12, its by dick spadaro, one of the most talented guys on here on these old cars, he tells you how to do it with c clamps,the big american made ones, it works xlnt
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Old 02-09-2014, 05:34 PM   #44
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ok guys go back to post #12, its by dick spadaro, one of the most talented guys on here on these old cars, he tells you how to do it with c clamps,the big american made ones, it works xlnt

Yes, Amen. Don't be scared about this. C clamps work if done with equal parts caution and logic.

No don't need a spring spreader. What would you do if the main leaf was reversed? Spreader would be useless.
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Old 02-09-2014, 05:55 PM   #45
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Gotta read stuff this stuff to realize how dumb you are.....I unbolted all bolts and "let her fly". Wa considerable"sprong!!!!!" but all was ok.

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Old 02-09-2014, 06:50 PM   #46
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Yes, Amen. Don't be scared about this. C clamps work if done with equal parts caution and logic.

No don't need a spring spreader. What would you do if the main leaf was reversed? Spreader would be useless.
Um, Tim, a spring spreader works very well with a reverse eye spring. A little mechanical ability goes a long way...
If you ever want to know how to do this operation, let me know.
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Old 02-09-2014, 07:54 PM   #47
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Default Re: Do I really have to find a spring spreader?

Let me guess...how about 16" of angle, one hack saw, a drill and four bolts? DD
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Old 02-09-2014, 07:57 PM   #48
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I disagree - it always worked for me

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dont use all thread, its not strong enough to be safe, get a long center bolt, get a center bolt an inch longer than the uncompressed spring, the center bolt keeps the spring in position and you dont have to install it when the spring is fully compressed, and please dont use cheap c clamps
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Old 02-09-2014, 08:00 PM   #49
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Let me guess...how about 16" of angle, one hack saw, a drill and four bolts? DD
Nope, not even close...
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Old 02-09-2014, 08:05 PM   #50
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Nope, not even close...
Well then, that makes at least TWO easy ways.

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Old 02-09-2014, 08:18 PM   #51
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Um, Tim, a spring spreader works very well with a reverse eye spring. A little mechanical ability goes a long way...
If you ever want to know how to do this operation, let me know.

Kube:

I am very interested in a reverse eye spreader. All of the speaders in this thread are for traditional non-reversed eyes for the tools rest on at least one of the "curls" of the eyelet.

Thanks

Tim
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Old 02-09-2014, 08:33 PM   #52
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Default Re: Do I really have to find a spring spreader?

the c clamps will work just fine on reversed eye springs
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Old 02-09-2014, 08:51 PM   #53
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Re: Removing a reversed eye spring with a spring spreader.
Something like this will work. Just bend one leg of the angle to fit your spreader. Scroll down to post #8 and 9.
http://www.rodsnsods.co.uk/forum/tec...40s-ford-37706
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Old 02-09-2014, 09:02 PM   #54
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Re: Removing a reversed eye spring with a spring spreader.
Something like this will work. Just bend one leg of the angle to fit your spreader. Scroll down to post #8 and 9.
http://www.rodsnsods.co.uk/forum/tec...40s-ford-37706
OK Jim, there's my 16" of angle, cut into four fours, drilled with a drill and clamped with four bolts. DD

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Old 02-09-2014, 09:08 PM   #55
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Default Re: Do I really have to find a spring spreader?

Wow! I missed a bunch of good discussion today while I was out goofing off. I didn't work a lick on it today (I sure thought about it a lot), but that is only because this is the first sunny day I've seen in a week or so. So the wife and I went over to the beach for a while.

19Fordy - I would love to take some copious notes and even do some video of the gear change, but I'm actually handing this job off to someone that knows what the hell they are doing. (Unlike me.) And they are out of town so I probably won't be able to even watch the process. Actually, I'm not really afraid to tackle most jobs and I do have a pretty well equipped shop for a hobby. Unfortunately, a shop press has not found its way to my shop. Yet. I may try it when I get to the '35 truck. I really just want to get this '36 safe and sound and drive it right now.

As to the ebay spreader, I took it as just a suggestion of the things that are out there to consider.

I am interested in the reverse eye spreaders for anyone wanting to share.
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Old 02-09-2014, 09:09 PM   #56
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Ha! Ha! DD, you submitted that while I was typing!!
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Old 02-09-2014, 09:12 PM   #57
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Originally Posted by Kube View Post
Um, Tim, a spring spreader works very well with a reverse eye spring. A little mechanical ability goes a long way...
If you ever want to know how to do this operation, let me know.
Kube, you're either smart and/or helpful. I can't tell one without the other.

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Old 02-09-2014, 09:28 PM   #58
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OK Jim, there's my 16" of angle, cut into four fours, drilled with a drill and clamped with four bolts. DD

I think you hit the home run on this.
Kube, please post your solution as inquiring minds what to know.
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Old 02-09-2014, 09:46 PM   #59
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Default Re: Do I really have to find a spring spreader?

The same guy that sells the model A spreader also sells one for 32-48 Ford Model B 18 48 Front Rear spring spreader Lincoln Mercury Coupe Sedan. Here is the link. http://www.ebay.com/itm/150786515709...84.m1497.l2649
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Old 02-09-2014, 10:21 PM   #60
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Default Re: Do I really have to find a spring spreader?

Harms way did a tech step by step on the hamb, (think he posts here to) on taking a reverse apart to install/remove. Some good suggestions also in wrapping the spring with a chain or something if the clamps move.
http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/s...d.php?t=646689

Another on reverse eye spreader ideas. Go down to around post 11. I was looking for the one on the cradle adaptor version that petejoe mentions in is this thread. Maybe that was a fb post? Still looking...
http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/s...pring+spreader
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Old 02-10-2014, 02:45 AM   #61
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Default Re: Do I really have to find a spring spreader?

His best bet is buy a porter power ,he will have other uses for it .Here's another way of jacking a reversed eye spring ,you use a old shackle or just use just the flat parts bolted say 3 stacked as in the next picture ,You can also use two u bolt lower plates bolted together ,just make sure they are tight .
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Old 02-10-2014, 09:08 AM   #62
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Um, Tim, a spring spreader works very well with a reverse eye spring. A little mechanical ability goes a long way...
If you ever want to know how to do this operation, let me know.
Not sure if I should take offense to your comment. I guess I must be lacking a little mechanical ability and should throw away all of my tools.

I'll count my lucky stars that C clamps have always done the trick for me. I've live by the motto that there is more than one way to skin a cat.
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Old 02-10-2014, 09:08 AM   #63
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Kube, you're either smart and/or helpful. I can't tell one without the other.

Lonnie
Lonnie,
I set up a spring with spreader on my bench to depict the way I do it. It is a very simple in design as you can see. Works amazingly well and is safe.
In the "real world" I use a heavier shackle pin to press against. The one in the photo was handy for taking the photo.
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Old 02-10-2014, 09:13 AM   #64
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Not sure if I should take offense or take it or leave it. I guess I must be lacking a little mechanical ability and should throw away all of my tools.

I guess I've always lived by the motto that there is more than one way to skin a cat.
I didn't mean any offense.
Think of it as more a lesson in "necessity is the mother of all invention".
As a tool maker I had to figure out ways to build dies and machines all the time that, well, "bent my brain". I always managed to find a solution as there was never an option NOT to find a solution. I suppose those years of hands on experience have helped me...
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Old 02-10-2014, 09:15 AM   #65
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[QUOTE=V8COOPMAN;820741]OK Jim, there's my 16" of angle, cut into four fours, drilled with a drill and clamped with four bolts. DD

This appears to be decent method to install reverse eye springs too. What keeps the spreader held safely against that piece of angle iron?
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Old 02-10-2014, 09:34 AM   #66
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Default Re: Do I really have to find a spring spreader?

Perhaps there is a gusset on the angle iron with a bolt hole to fit a similar piece on the end of the spreader.
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Old 02-10-2014, 09:56 AM   #67
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I didn't mean any offense.
Think of it as more a lesson in "necessity is the mother of all invention".
As a tool maker I had to figure out ways to build dies and machines all the time that, well, "bent my brain". I always amanged to find a solution as there was never an option NOT to find a solution. I suppose those years of hands on experience have helped me...

No problem. After looking back, my comment was a little thin skinned on my part. I appreciate the follow up and input.
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Old 02-10-2014, 11:27 AM   #68
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Default Re: Do I really have to find a spring spreader?

Use a new center bolt,just don't cut it off till you have ride height set it'll have to come apart at least a couple times. Initial ride height should be about an inch higher than you want,it will settle at least that much.
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Old 02-10-2014, 01:47 PM   #69
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[QUOTE=Kube;820934]
Quote:
Originally Posted by V8COOPMAN View Post
OK Jim, there's my 16" of angle, cut into four fours, drilled with a drill and clamped with four bolts. DD

This appears to be decent method to install reverse eye springs too. What keeps the spreader held safely against that piece of angle iron?
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Lonnie,
I set up a spring with spreader on my bench to depict the way I do it. It is a very simple in design as you can see. Works amazingly well and is safe.
In the "real world" I use a heavier shackle pin to press against. The one in the photo was handy for taking the photo.
Pretty slick Kubarth, and simple! I'd graciously settle for "runner-up" status with my meager example when compared with yours, below. Folks can learn a little bit more every day (myself included), if they'll pay attention with an open mind. Again......SLICK! DD

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Old 02-10-2014, 05:05 PM   #70
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Default Re: Do I really have to find a spring spreader?

Last year I took the rear out of my car to replace 4.11 gears with 3.78's and repair/rebuild the rear as necessary. The attached pictures show how we disassembled the spring pack and removed it from the rear. I do not like using C clamps alone to take a spring pack apart. I don't care who has recomending doing this, C clamps alone can slip off the spring allowing the pack to fly apart. These leaves can come apart with enough energy to kill someone, maybe you...so BE SAFE!!
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Old 02-10-2014, 06:59 PM   #71
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Default Re: Do I really have to find a spring spreader?

same thing can happen with a spring spreader, you just have to be smarter than what your working on, wood shims take care of the slipping problem with the c clamps, but saying that, any way that works is the right way
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Old 02-10-2014, 07:18 PM   #72
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Default Re: Do I really have to find a spring spreader?

All sorts of good thoughts here. Sure wish I read some of those a few years ago.

For those who are taking them out and putting them in on a regular basis, one of those heavy duty rigs seems like the way to go. I guess I just got lucky back when Ike was in the White House.

Vague memory, but I think I replaced my shackles by jacking the body up until the axle hung on the spring. I put pieces of wood under the eyes and then lowered the car back on the wood. The eyes and the wood carried the car's weight as the eyes spread and it was easy, sort of, to remove the shackles. Then you jack the car up again and remove the u-bolts. Not quite sure how I did it on the rear, but it was pretty much the same drill.

Since the spring was always constrained by the cross member, real excitement was not too possible. I think.

Reverse to reinstall.

Or maybe memory is faulty.
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Old 02-10-2014, 08:25 PM   #73
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Default Re: Do I really have to find a spring spreader?

John,
That looks to me like one of the safest ways to do it. That is pretty much what I ended up doing except your method is way more elegant. I used all thread AND C clamps. I left the C clamps on, loosened the nut on the all thread about 1/4", then loosened the C clamps. Then loosened the nut, then clamps and so on until all was loose. No drama, no surprises, very controllable, and overall very safe.

Its apart now. Making progress. Now I need help separating the torque tube. I started another thread about that.
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Old 02-10-2014, 08:55 PM   #74
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Originally Posted by Kube View Post
Lonnie,
I set up a spring with spreader on my bench to depict the way I do it. It is a very simple in design as you can see. Works amazingly well and is safe.
In the "real world" I use a heavier shackle pin to press against. The one in the photo was handy for taking the photo.
Heard, great to here that ya made it happen.

Kube, the shackles never interfere with the removal of the shackles on the vehicle? Never tried this method, i also know you can build a car.

on my previous post with a link to harms ways post. Personally i would be leery of the time removing the center bolt and adding the all thread. Knocking an old rusty center bolt out with only the clamps still attached to a axle has some force. But hey that is why i thought chains as a back up was a good idea. I would think that removing the shackles to release the energy first would be the safest.

The angle iron looks like a great idea outside a tab to keep the spring spreader set. Easily welded on.

I saws-alled the shackle of a spring on a rear axle (off the car) and i thought it would fly off. It didnt. But i can see there is a lot of kinetic energy waiting to hurt someone.

Great ideas still being posted. Enjoy be safe.




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Last edited by Tinker; 02-11-2014 at 12:18 PM.
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Old 02-10-2014, 10:07 PM   #75
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Default Re: Do I really have to find a spring spreader?

This set up of Kubes is the same idea as my previous post (photo 1 ), Its pretty obvious that it doesn't work because when the pins are in place the pushing force comes directly onto the shackle plates and pin (My picture 1 & 2) .The idea is to remove the shackle plates with ease I don't see how the shackle plates will come of or go back on .The simplest option for him is to use the two u bolt plates as in my picture 3 &4 ,these can be removed of the centre of the spring first then used in this application .There's no drilling fabricating ect .I posted this years ago ,I post again ,
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kube View Post
Lonnie,
I set up a spring with spreader on my bench to depict the way I do it. It is a very simple in design as you can see. Works amazingly well and is safe.
In the "real world" I use a heavier shackle pin to press against. The one in the photo was handy for taking the photo.
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File Type: jpg 01Jan2005_2590.jpg (52.1 KB, 32 views)
File Type: jpg 01Jan2005_2591.jpg (119.5 KB, 35 views)
File Type: jpg 01Jan2005_2592.jpg (22.8 KB, 33 views)
File Type: jpg 01Jan2005_2586.jpg (46.8 KB, 34 views)
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Old 02-10-2014, 11:48 PM   #76
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Okay, thanks ted for the answer.
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Old 02-11-2014, 08:20 AM   #77
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Default Re: Do I really have to find a spring spreader?

[QUOTE=Tinker;821456]Heard, great to here that ya made it happen.

Kube, the shackles never interfer with the removal of the shackles on the vehicle? Never tried this method, i also know you can build a car.

on my previous post with a link to harms ways post. Personally i would be leary of the time removing the center bolt and adding the all thread. Knocking an old rusty center bolt out with only the clamps still attached to a axle has some force. But hey thats why i thought chains as a back up was a good idea. I would think that remmoving the shackles to release the energy first would be the saftest.

The angle iron looks like a great idea outside a tab to keep the spring spreader set. Easily welded on.

I sawalled a spring pack on a rear axle out side the car and i thought it would fly off. It didnt. But i can see there is a lot of kinetic engery waiting to hurt someone.

Great ideas still being posted. Enjoy be safe.


No, the shackles do not interfere. That picture is only a "mock up" on my bench and may not depict exactly what goes on. I have used this method a number of times without a hitch. It is both simple and quite effective.
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Old 02-11-2014, 09:22 AM   #78
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Default Re: Do I really have to find a spring spreader?

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Last year I took the rear out of my car to replace 4.11 gears with 3.78's and repair/rebuild the rear as necessary. The attached pictures show how we disassembled the spring pack and removed it from the rear. I do not like using C clamps alone to take a spring pack apart. I don't care who has recomending doing this, C clamps alone can slip off the spring allowing the pack to fly apart. These leaves can come apart with enough energy to kill someone, maybe you...so BE SAFE!!

John, I have used your method about 5 times now, its a bugger but its a lot safer!
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Old 02-11-2014, 09:27 AM   #79
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Default Re: Do I really have to find a spring spreader?

the first time I took a spring off a rear was in my 36 pickup. I took it out to replace the shackles. I had a friend help me and we used his cutting torch to cut the shackles. that spring jumped good when we cut the first side!
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Old 02-11-2014, 01:47 PM   #80
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Default Re: Do I really have to find a spring spreader?

Quote
No, the shackles do not interfere. That picture is only a "mock up" on my bench and may not depict exactly what goes on. I have used this method a number of times without a hitch. It is both simple and quite effective. Yeah I can see that .
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Old 02-11-2014, 02:04 PM   #81
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Default Re: Do I really have to find a spring spreader?

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John,
That looks to me like one of the safest ways to do it. That is pretty much what I ended up doing except your method is way more elegant. I used all thread AND C clamps. I left the C clamps on, loosened the nut on the all thread about 1/4", then loosened the C clamps. Then loosened the nut, then clamps and so on until all was loose. No drama, no surprises, very controllable, and overall very safe.

Its apart now. Making progress. Now I need help separating the torque tube. I started another thread about that.
Did you use a spreader on the last leaf? If not how did you get that leaf off/back on. No one has discussed this step that I can tell.
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Old 02-11-2014, 02:09 PM   #82
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Default Re: Do I really have to find a spring spreader?

That single leaf is usually long enough and flexible enough that it can be "grunted" into submission onto or off of the shackles. DD
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Old 02-11-2014, 04:14 PM   #83
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Default Re: Do I really have to find a spring spreader?

Sixseven. DD is correct. I just grunted it off, but in the process, I bent up both of the shackles. Not so sure that is the best way to do it. At least not with the shackles I had. They are Pete and Jake. One of the plates is fixed to both pins. The other side (of the same shackle) has a removable plate. If both plates were removable, it probably would have been easier than trying to slide the entire pin out under even this slight pressure. Not sure if all the shackles are like mine or not.
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Old 02-11-2014, 05:30 PM   #84
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Default Re: Do I really have to find a spring spreader?

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Did you use a spreader on the last leaf? If not how did you get that leaf off/back on. No one has discussed this step that I can tell.
Sixseven, if you look at the last picture in post #70, a spring spreader was used to remove the final leaf and again when that leaf went back on during assembly. This is the only way I would use that particular spreader because it is not strong enough to spread a complete rear spring pack. I made that spreader many years ago using 3/4" all thread & galvanized water pipe before I understood how much force it took to spread an assembled spring. If I made one today it would be a much heavier duty design.
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Old 02-11-2014, 05:39 PM   #85
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John, I have used your method about 5 times now, its a bugger but its a lot safer!
Brendan, it is a slow procedure but I do feel safer doing it that way, especially when putting a spring back together.
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Old 02-11-2014, 05:57 PM   #86
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Brendan, it is a slow procedure but I do feel safer doing it that way, especially when putting a spring back together.

I have used it on my Model A spring also!
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Old 02-11-2014, 07:19 PM   #87
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Sixseven. DD is correct. I just grunted it off, but in the process, I bent up both of the shackles. Not so sure that is the best way to do it. At least not with the shackles I had. They are Pete and Jake. One of the plates is fixed to both pins. The other side (of the same shackle) has a removable plate. If both plates were removable, it probably would have been easier than trying to slide the entire pin out under even this slight pressure. Not sure if all the shackles are like mine or not.
The idea here would be to place a block of wood directly under the end of the spring (eye) that you first removed the plate. Place just enough weight (your foot) toward the center of the leaf to relieve remaining tension on the shackle pins while tapping on the remaining FIXED plate, driving both pins out of the two eyes. If careful, it all remains in relative alignment. DD
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Old 02-11-2014, 11:24 PM   #88
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JM 35 Sedan View Post
Last year I took the rear out of my car to replace 4.11 gears with 3.78's and repair/rebuild the rear as necessary. The attached pictures show how we disassembled the spring pack and removed it from the rear. I do not like using C clamps alone to take a spring pack apart. I don't care who has recomending doing this, C clamps alone can slip off the spring allowing the pack to fly apart. These leaves can come apart with enough energy to kill someone, maybe you...so BE SAFE!!
I really like this and will be using this method. Thank you.

So many great ideas.
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Old 03-24-2014, 04:57 AM   #89
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Default Re: Do I really have to find a spring spreader?

I was fortunate enough to get this as a gift from a friend in LA this winter. and it looks very sturdy and nice as Snap-on is well know for.
Some of my friends have borrowed it a few times already and it works perfect. i will use it soon myself, on a 1946 and a 1932.
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Old 08-03-2014, 03:47 PM   #90
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Default Re: Do I really have to find a spring spreader?

I just used the spreader available on e-bay on my model a, it is a well made unit, I spread the spring until it almost touched the shock mounts and the shackles were already loose just a couple of taps with a hammer and they popped right out, and this car had been sitting since 1959! It was really worth it! I would do it again!
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Old 09-19-2014, 11:03 PM   #91
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Default Re: Do I really have to find a spring spreader?

All thread, or redi rod is available in grade 8 quality I have lots and use it all the time, so strength is not an issue using it. Just don't use the regular grade 5 stuff.
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Old 09-20-2014, 08:06 AM   #92
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Default Re: Do I really have to find a spring spreader?

I've always just used the jack method, using a floor jack and the weight of the car. Pull the shackles, then unbolt the spring from the crossmember and drop it out. To take one off of an existing axle, I used C-clamps and a long piece of all thread, where the center bolt goes, and gradually released the tension until I could take it apart.

When putting the spring back together, I use the all thread to line up the leaves, lay it flat on it's side, and begin to tighten until I can get the C clamps on it, then put in the center bolt. Once it's together, I bolt it back into the crossmember and use a floor jack to raise it up and reinstall the shackles.

Yes, I still have l my teeth.
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Old 09-20-2014, 08:51 AM   #93
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Default Re: Do I really have to find a spring spreader?

Whenever spring removal is a topic the year of the spring is often not part of the thread. The spring pack itself almost always has tension, but the tension between the spring perches varies by the years. Earlier car have the springs spread quite a bit while the later years have very little spread. In the 60s and on up a lot of springs have a fixed end and a floating end with no spread tension. So it is going to depend a lot on the year as to how difficult a spring is to remove and which method of removal works best.
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Old 09-22-2014, 11:56 AM   #94
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Default Re: Do I really have to find a spring spreader?

Removed the rear spring on my 32 wagon with all thread. Was a lot easier that I thought it was going to be.
Here is a link to the thread I posted on how I removed the spring:
http://www.fordbarn.com/forum/showthread.php?t=141993

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Old 09-22-2014, 02:13 PM   #95
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Default Re: Do I really have to find a spring spreader?

Can you rent a Porta-Power? If you lived closer you could use this.
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