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Old 01-11-2014, 09:34 AM   #1
Tom maxwell
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Default 600 w

Is there a source of 600 W gear oil other than the antique auto vendors we normally use. I have not been able to find it at local vendors ... Pep Boys , Napa, etc.
Or is there a substitute oil that can be used for the gear oils and steering box that I can just drive to the store and pickup.
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Old 01-11-2014, 10:16 AM   #2
Patrick L.
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Default Re: 600 w

It can be found at various large oil suppliers, usually in 5 gal buckets. It goes by some such number like 686, can't remember without looking it up. But, 600W is about 240-250 weight.
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Old 01-11-2014, 10:33 AM   #3
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Default Re: 600 w

Try this, 140w gear oil, throw in some viscosity modifier if you want too (STP, Lucas, etc):

http://www.carquest.com/webapp/wcs/s...-1_10651_14332
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Old 01-11-2014, 11:32 AM   #4
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Default Re: 600 w

Why not just order it from one of the vendor's. You're never going to use 5 gals of something else. FWIW
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Old 01-11-2014, 11:46 AM   #5
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Default Re: 600 w

These are the modern equivalents to the Ford transmission, rear end and steering box oils:

Mobilgear 600 XP 680
BP Energol GR-XP 680
Castrol Alpha LS680
Shell Omala 680
Texaco Meropa 680
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Old 01-11-2014, 03:58 PM   #6
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Default Re: 600 w

No trouble with buying from a vendor, but I was just figuring that this was something I could shop locally. As in everything I need for the coupe, time and shipping fees are always in the equation.
I also located it from the major suppliers but the 5 gallons and lead time was a little much.
I like the mixing idea.
Thanks
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Old 01-11-2014, 04:31 PM   #7
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Default Re: 600 w

Lubriplate SPO 288.
It ain't cheap.
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Old 01-11-2014, 04:50 PM   #8
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Default Re: 600 w

I bought a five gallon pail from Frick, an oil distributor in Allentown, Pa. DON'T have it UPSed, it's shipped as hazardous material.
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Old 01-11-2014, 07:41 PM   #9
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Default Re: 600 w

I buy Texaco 680 by the 5 gallon bucket from a local oil distributor and then everyone in the local club that needs some brings an empty quart oil bottle and we fill it up. Dividing the number of quarts by the cost of 5 gallons works out to about $5.50 per quart. Talk to your other club members and form a co-op.
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Old 01-11-2014, 11:42 PM   #10
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Default Re: 600 w

Just a little education,

600W is not a designation of a weight of oil. It is the name of an oil sold by Mobil Oil and has it's roots back to the beginning of industrial revolution.

"Mobil Cylinder oils are high performance high viscosity oils designed for use in enclosed worm gears operating at moderate to high speeds and temperatures, and where heavy loads, slow speeds or high temperatures demand high viscosity oils. They are also intended for use in steam engine cylinder applications. They are formulated from high quality base stocks that are resistant to oxidation and thermal degradation, and the build-up of harmful deposits caused by the high operating temperatures of steam cylinders. They protect against rust and corrosion and provide good film strength and excellent lubricity and they are resistant to water washout."

I'm not going to get into a pissing contest about if this is the best oil to use, I'm just stating what it is and yes you can buy Mobil 600w.
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Old 01-12-2014, 08:41 AM   #11
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Default Re: 600 w

Just about any oil will work, Providing these conditions are present,
1) That it doesn't leak out! Too light an oil will find leaks.
2) It remains thick enough to slow the gears down to shift, yet not so thick it will prevent shifting.
3) It still lubricates.
Some suggestions are in addition to what has been mentioned are. STP and various concoctions thereof. Various Lucas products, Hub oil, oil stabilyser. I'm new to this and I'm using the Lucas oil stabyilser (sp) and STP. So far it seems to be working. Among Mod. A ers, which oils to use can be a touchy subject.
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Old 01-12-2014, 04:28 PM   #12
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Default Re: 600 w

Very few folks put enough miles on their cars to wear out these areas regardless of what they use. I'm not a believer in "concoctions" regardless of what my neighbor says or does. I've read more about lubricants than I ever wanted to over the years.

It's important to note that most of our suppliers sell either a thinner SUBSTITUTE or a concoction labeled as 600W. I think Bert's in Denver may be an exception. For me personally, I will only run a true equivalent to 600W or true SAE 250 which Ford changed to in 1932. It just happens that the 600W is (or at least was) easier and cheaper to acquire if you have a group of folks to split the cost of a bulk purchase. The first 5 gallon can we got almost 15 years ago was about $52. I suspect it's at least doubled by now.

I first posted the list of brand equivalents 10-15 years ago. At that time the only SAE 250 gear lube I could find was Penrite. That was not commonly available in the USA at the time. Now there is Lubriplate SPO 288 and possibly more. I haven't read the spec sheet on the Lubriplate but it should be good. I still have enough ISO 680 to last me for many years so I won't be reading specs on other lubricants anytime soon.

If you choose either of those or something else, don't mix. Most folks don't realize just how incompatible seemingly similar lubricants can be.

Finally, while some lubricants (or concoctions) will certainly prevent wear better than others, a Model A will survive almost anything. That is exactly why there are so many still on the road after all these decades!
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Old 01-13-2014, 07:46 PM   #13
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Default Re: 600 w

From this Ford 1930 Sales Manual spec. sheet: "HEAVY SEMI-FLUID OIL"

Something tells me there wasn't a lot of lab testing of specific lubricants back in the day, and if there was, Ford didn't think specifics mattered too much...
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Old 01-13-2014, 08:43 PM   #14
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Default Re: 600 w

Quote:
Originally Posted by Smurkey View Post
From this Ford 1930 Sales Manual spec. sheet: "HEAVY SEMI-FLUID OIL"

Something tells me there wasn't a lot of lab testing of specific lubricants back in the day, and if there was, Ford didn't think specifics mattered too much...
Most Model A owners today severely underestimate Ford's engineering back then.
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Old 01-13-2014, 09:03 PM   #15
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Default Re: 600 w

Quote:
Among Mod. A ers, which oils to use can be a touchy subject.
Which I don't understand. I've used 600w steam oil, the 140w gear oil, and straight STP in the transmission.

The only downside I've seen is the 140gear oil used to leak out through the cluster gear and reverse idler shaft before I cut grooves in them and installed O-rings to prevent it.

Straight STP is there now. A little stiff at first in the winter (like to the end of the driveway) but I don't drive much in the winter anyway.

But the umbrage? How can anyone fault someone else for what they think works! And all those parts SHOULD they wear before their time are replaceable. It's only money.

Dunno. Some think there is only one way.

Shadetree exists to find OTHER ways. And that's part of the adventure. And the delight!

Joe K
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Old 01-13-2014, 10:58 PM   #16
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Default Re: 600 w

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Originally Posted by Joe K View Post
Which I don't understand. I've used 600w steam oil, the 140w gear oil, and straight STP in the transmission.

Straight STP is there now. A little stiff at first in the winter (like to the end of the driveway) but I don't drive much in the winter anyway.

But the umbrage? How can anyone fault someone else for what they think works! And all those parts SHOULD they wear before their time are replaceable. It's only money.

Dunno. Some think there is only one way.

Shadetree exists to find OTHER ways. And that's part of the adventure. And the delight!

Joe K
You're right, "It's only money".

As I've posted NUMEROUS times over the last 15 years "STP is NOT a lubricant!" As always, folks are welcome to do what ever they wish with their cars.

For those that haven't seen STP labels, there are a couple points of interest below. The first is an old STP label I first posted in the late 90's.



Now, fast forward 15 years and here is info straight from their web site:


"10. Can I use STP® Oil Treatment in my manual transmission?"

"STP® Oil Treatment has been used successfully in manual transmissions, gearboxes and differentials at a 10% treat-rate, by volume (i.e., 90% oil and 10% Oil Treatment, by volume). Do not overfill."



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Old 01-13-2014, 11:18 PM   #17
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Default Re: 600 w

Quote:
Originally Posted by Marco Tahtaras View Post
You're right, "It's only money".

As I've posted NUMEROUS times over the last 15 years "STP is NOT a lubricant!" As always, folks are welcome to do what ever they wish with their cars.

For those that haven't seen STP labels, there are a couple points of interest below. The first is an old STP label I first posted in the late 90's.



Now, fast forward 15 years and here is info straight from their web site:


"10. Can I use STP® Oil Treatment in my manual transmission?"

"STP® Oil Treatment has been used successfully in manual transmissions, gearboxes and differentials at a 10% treat-rate, by volume (i.e., 90% oil and 10% Oil Treatment, by volume). Do not overfill."



Never let facts get in the way of opinion.
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Old 01-14-2014, 12:56 AM   #18
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Default Re: 600 w

I just get mine direct from Penrite, but then it is an Australian made oil.
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Old 01-14-2014, 06:40 AM   #19
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Default Re: 600 w

The correct oils have secondary effects that you should be concern with in your car.

Remember cleaning your axle housings?

They were coated with this smelly stuff. That is the side effect of this oil. It coats the inside of the axle housing with a rust proofing. The unvented housing will get condensate on the metal. This can cause rust flakes which would not be good for your bearings.

Does stp or the others thinner oils do this?
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Old 01-14-2014, 06:41 AM   #20
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Default Re: 600 w

Heh. As I got the truck, and as I worked on the obviously challenged tranny, I took note of the 600w/sawdust mixture that was in the transmission case. In that case too I guess you could say the majority mix "was not lubricant" either.

And it worked well enough to get the sale of the car. (blush)

I've learned a lot since then - the process continues too.

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Old 01-14-2014, 09:54 AM   #21
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Default Re: 600 w

Klang! And The fight is on.....In this corner we have the STP (some with sawdust, some without) crowd! Yaaaay! Over here we have the reigning champions with 600w and, ... and, ... what's that? There's a new contender? The Lucas Gang?.....
Just trying to have some fun with these oil "Discussions"! Maybe we should not talk about what's good for a mod. A, but what to avoid and WHY. Who has blown up and engine, Transmission, or rear end, using such and such oils. But I think it's important to bear in mind that the worst lubricants of today are better than the best oils of 1930.
Terry
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Old 01-14-2014, 10:06 AM   #22
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Default Re: 600 w

Alright... lets try to get a listing of what lubes are best that can be purchased at the local parts store and what quantity each assembly needs. Please list what you know to work well. Thanks.

1. Engine oil
2. Transmission
3. Rearend
4. Steering box

What did I miss? A list of this info would be VERY helpful for those, such as myself, that need the wealth of wisdom available on this forum.
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Old 01-14-2014, 10:18 AM   #23
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Default Re: 600 w

For steering box I mixed Lucas gear lube and John Deere corn head grease to get good lubricating quality and rust prevention and the thickness of the old steering box lube. So far it seems to be working well. Straight corn head grease seemed a too thick for gears that don't spin.
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Old 01-14-2014, 10:28 AM   #24
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Default Re: 600 w

PennRite Steering Box Lube is the way to go. no mixing 2 or 3 diff ones, just pour. Will NOT leak out of your box.
Restoration Specialties (or Supply)
Escondido, CA do a search FWIW
Paul in CT
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Old 01-14-2014, 10:43 AM   #25
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Default Re: 600 w

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike V. Florida View Post
Never let facts get in the way of opinion.
Oh what a slippery slope!
The STP MSDS LINK shows the majority content to be a mineral oil base with something less than 5% added ZDDP. The mineral oil is listed as "mixture" so that would include viscosity modifiers and tackifiers.

Has the 60+% base oil content of STP been so adulterated that it is actually no longer a functional lubricant, or have the lawyers absolved the company of liability by insisting it be mixed with a 'lubricant' so failure liability falls elsewhere?

Is the 'not a lubricant' actually engineering test FACT or legal OPINION?
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Old 01-14-2014, 11:44 AM   #26
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Default Re: 600 w

Quote:
Originally Posted by MikeK View Post

Has the 60+% base oil content of STP been so adulterated that it is actually no longer a functional lubricant, or have the lawyers absolved the company of liability by insisting it be mixed with a 'lubricant' so failure liability falls elsewhere?

Is the 'not a lubricant' actually engineering test FACT or legal OPINION?
I was pretty sure you would follow up on that one! That statement was a bit strong on my part in order to make a point. Obviously it has some lubricating ability or properties. However they never suggest it as a stand alone lubricant (or even close to it) and certainly would if they could as it would increase potential sales .

Quote:
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.... But I think it's important to bear in mind that the worst lubricants of today are better than the best oils of 1930.
Terry
In general I believe that is very true. However, the design and purpose for different lubricants is as varied as the specialties of medical doctors. In most cases a general practitioner is far better than no doctor at all and the same will apply to lubricants. The correct medical specialist for your particular needs will typically keep you alive much longer.


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Old 01-14-2014, 11:51 AM   #27
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Default Re: 600 w

We have used the Lubriplate listed above for years and it really is nice in the Model A transmission.
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Old 01-14-2014, 12:01 PM   #28
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Default Re: 600 w

I'm with you! Accessability is a big consideration. I don't want to have to order a $10-12 item and pay $10-12 shipping on it besides and have to wait any appreciable amount of time. I want to hop in the car and go get it.
My choice for engine oil would be any known brand of 10-30/40 HD oil (Rotella. castrol etc. They're all good!
For Trans oil, I'm using 50/50 STP and Lucas Oil Stabilyser (sp) Seems to work, doesn't leak! Rear end, same thing. I may try JD Cornhead grease.
Steering box I'm not looking forward to tackling that yet.
Terry



Quote:
Originally Posted by 26Tguy View Post
Alright... lets try to get a listing of what lubes are best that can be purchased at the local parts store and what quantity each assembly needs. Please list what you know to work well. Thanks.

1. Engine oil
2. Transmission
3. Rearend
4. Steering box

What did I miss? A list of this info would be VERY helpful for those, such as myself, that need the wealth of wisdom available on this forum.
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Old 01-14-2014, 07:37 PM   #29
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Default Re: 600 w

Quote:
Originally Posted by Terry,NJ View Post
Klang! And The fight is on.....In this corner we have the STP (some with sawdust, some without) crowd! Yaaaay! Over here we have the reigning champions with 600w and, ... and, ... what's that? There's a new contender? The Lucas Gang?.....
Just trying to have some fun with these oil "Discussions"! Maybe we should not talk about what's good for a mod. A, but what to avoid and WHY. Who has blown up and engine, Transmission, or rear end, using such and such oils. But I think it's important to bear in mind that the worst lubricants of today are better than the best oils of 1930.
Terry
Ford Fudge. Is there any truth to the rumor that Ford Fudge is a good substitute for grease in the Model A Steering Column?

See Mary Moline's Book Model A Miseries and Cures for the recipe.

Not good for my hooves though. Too much sugar!

Joe K
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Old 01-14-2014, 09:05 PM   #30
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Default Re: 600 w

let me add 900 to this thread. After getting the tranny and rear end warmed up to drain and re-fill I observed that the 1500w I had been running for about 4000 miles came out as mostly froth and thin oil. I did not observe this when I replaced the 600w I had put in the car the year before. I replaced it with 600w from the same vendor "Mikes". Anyone else notice this? Thanx
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Old 01-14-2014, 11:36 PM   #31
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No! But it's worth noting, Thanks for posting!
Terry




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let me add 900 to this thread. After getting the tranny and rear end warmed up to drain and re-fill I observed that the 1500w I had been running for about 4000 miles came out as mostly froth and thin oil. I did not observe this when I replaced the 600w I had put in the car the year before. I replaced it with 600w from the same vendor "Mikes". Anyone else notice this? Thanx
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Old 01-15-2014, 08:26 AM   #32
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Default Re: 600 w

Quote:
Originally Posted by MikeK View Post
Oh what a slippery slope!
The STP MSDS LINK shows the majority content to be a mineral oil base with something less than 5% added ZDDP. The mineral oil is listed as "mixture" so that would include viscosity modifiers and tackifiers.

Has the 60+% base oil content of STP been so adulterated that it is actually no longer a functional lubricant, or have the lawyers absolved the company of liability by insisting it be mixed with a 'lubricant' so failure liability falls elsewhere?

Is the 'not a lubricant' actually engineering test FACT or legal OPINION?
What company would not want to increase it's sales by 90%?

If the product truly was a lubricant there would be no need for a legal opinion as engineering test facts would prove it to be so. With the lack of engineering test facts that prove it can be used 100%, the facts do prove 10% as evidenced by the length of time the product has been sold and the lack of lawsuits to prove otherwise and the willingness of a for profit company not looking for the max sales.
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Old 01-15-2014, 09:41 AM   #33
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Default Re: 600 w

I have witnessed some really big problems by mixing different lubricants. One in particular comes to mine is when I drove a truck hauling oil field equipment. One of the truckers believed in STP to the point I think he used it on his pancakes. I watched him pour it in the front hubs one morning while we were loading pipe. I was second in the convoy with him in the lead and after 300 miles down the road he pulled over and got out and shock the front wheels about 4 inches at the top. Needless to say we had to get a cutting torch to get the races off the spindles. I've seen some transmissions that looked the same way by mixing oils.
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Old 01-15-2014, 09:56 AM   #34
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One of the truckers believed in STP to the point I think he used it on his pancakes.
I'll be laughing all day after reading this one.
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Old 01-15-2014, 10:39 AM   #35
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Default Re: 600 w

Ive just got 2, 5 gallon pails of Mobil 600w that I have been dishing out and selling by the quart. I have used all the ones available from the vendors(except Berts) and they are all different. Macs seems too thin, but the stuff from Snyders is rather nice.
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