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Old 07-02-2020, 09:20 PM   #21
stewgee
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Default Re: 600w oil

Thanks everyone. Awesome comments. Just didn't know you could use the 600 in everything in the old A.
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Old 07-02-2020, 09:28 PM   #22
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Default Re: 600w oil

Marc the 600w that I bought I got from Macs. I wasn't sure if I could buy it locally from a auto parts store so as not to pay shipping. Every day is a new learning experience with these old cars
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Old 07-03-2020, 08:08 AM   #23
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Default Re: 600w oil

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Originally Posted by stewgee View Post
Thanks everyone. Awesome comments. Just didn't know you could use the 600 in everything in the old A.
Or put another way, today's lubricants are higher quality and better suited to the job than anything from 1930. Steam Cylinder oil?
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Old 07-03-2020, 08:19 AM   #24
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Default Re: 600w oil

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Originally Posted by Patrick L. View Post
If I remember correctly Mobil/Chevron 680 is an SAE 140 viscosity oil.
I have attached a simple chart that allows you to convert from the 680 (which is an ISO grade) to an SAE Gear Oil number. One of the things that you will notice is that an SAE 140 oil spans a very large range of oil viscosity. Anything in that range, thinner or thicker, can be labeled SAE 140. Same with 250. The ISO grades are more narrow, so you know better what you are getting.

I think when you mix 50-50 SAE 140 gear oil and STP you are creating a thicker SAE 140 that is closer to ISO 680. I'm guessing.

You can buy today from Shell, Mobil or Chevron an oil that is similar to the old 600 W Cylinder Oil (which was a Mobil trademark, by the way -- not a viscosity) in 4 different ISO grades: 375, 460, 680 and 1000.

Here is a link to the Mobil Oil site that describes it:
https://www.mobil.com/en-us/industri...-cylinder-oils

I have not yet gone to the Benson Ford archives to look up what Ford's original spec was for this oil, so I can't suggest which of the above to use.

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File Type: jpg KinematicViscosity.jpg (31.2 KB, 47 views)
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Old 07-03-2020, 08:31 AM   #25
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Default Re: 600w oil

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Originally Posted by Terry, NJ View Post
Or put another way, today's lubricants are higher quality and better suited to the job than anything from 1930. Steam Cylinder oil?
Terry
The oil Ford used in transmission and differential was dictated by the gear tooth cut design. These are flat face spur gears (unlike modern helical or hypoid cut gears).

Flat face spur gears have direct flat metal to metal gear face pressure when under load. To lubricate them you need a thick, sticky oil so that an oil film forms to keep a pad between the two metal surfaces. Steam cylinder oil is thick and sticky.

Modern gear oils are good for modern gear cuts.

See:
https://khkgears.net/new/gear_knowle..._of_gears.html

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Old 07-03-2020, 09:56 AM   #26
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Default Re: 600w oil

https://www.mobil.com/en/lubricants/...l-shc-gear-680
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Old 07-03-2020, 03:01 PM   #27
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Default Re: 600w oil

My note about cylinder oil:

Cylinder oils are the most viscous lubricating oils that are available. Due to the very high toughness, the gear shaft brakes quickly when the clutch released.

But you have to know that these oils have no additives!

Regarding wear protection, it does not matter, since the gearbox hase only a small load.

However, it is not a good thing that there is no corrosion protection. Condensation will form in the transmission over the time.

Therefore, the cylinder oil should be mixed with additized 680 gear oil. It also makes sense to change this oil every 2 to 3 years.

I drive 1500 cylinder oil + 680 gear oil (AISE / US-Steel 224 [= Deutsch T3 CLP]) in the ratio 2: 1.
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Old 07-04-2020, 01:38 AM   #28
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Default Re: 600w oil

I keep waiting for the guy to show up and post again, whoever he was. This subject seems to come up every few weeks and the same things are said by mostly the same people. Sometime last winter someone posted that a factory service bulletin from early 1932 changed Ford's gear box oil recommendation for all Model A's and current production cars to 140 instead of 600.


I have searched several times, but not found the post. I've been using Chevron 140 gear oil in both my Model A's for more than 10 years and am completely satisfied.
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Old 07-04-2020, 05:49 AM   #29
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Default Re: 600w oil

Ak, I don't think it's not talking about about the lubricity of the gear oils. Any thin gear oil is also suitable too.

The focus is on a very highly viscous oil so that the unsynchronized transmission can be shifted faster when the oil is very hot.
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Old 07-04-2020, 06:28 AM   #30
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Default Re: 600w oil

When I was young we always had a barrel of 140 which was used in pretty much everything back then until things changed to 90.

Since we sold Studebaker and Ford I assume it was the correct oil.

Ford might have made the 1932 change in oil due to their new attempt to circumsize, errr, synchronize, the transmissions of that year.

Last edited by Patrick L.; 07-04-2020 at 06:34 AM.
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Old 07-04-2020, 07:26 AM   #31
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Default Re: 600w oil

Quote:
Originally Posted by Werner View Post
Ak, I don't think it's not talking about about the lubricity of the gear oils. Any thin gear oil is also suitable too.

The focus is on a very highly viscous oil so that the unsynchronized transmission can be shifted faster when the oil is very hot.
I agree, Werner.

And when Model A owners complain to me that they cannot shift gears from 1st to 2nd and 2nd to 3rd gear without the gears grinding, unless they double-clutch, I tell them that their gear oil is too thin.

Few people believe me and I don't argue with them.

One gentleman contacted me to say that his gears would grind only when cold and he shifted (as I recommend) without double-clutching. Once the engine warmed up, no grinding when shifting.

I told him to shift more quickly to the next gear, not to pause when cold. He reported back the next day that I was correct and that fixed the problem. His thick, cold gear oil was slowing the spin of the cluster gear very quickly and he needed to shift quickly to match it.

When you understand the design of the transmission, it all falls into place.

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Old 07-05-2020, 12:49 PM   #32
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Default Re: 600w oil

'it all falls into place.'

So to speak. [smiley face]
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