Overdrive or not???

[Fred K-OR]

If a person was to install an overdrive, what would be the best one to consider? Also if you do install an overdrive, what else do you need to do to the A to take advantage of the overdrive?

After having my rig up and running for a couple of months now, I can see if a person wants to go on a lot of long tours, some kind of additional "ump" is needed. But if all you do if go to town for coffee, then the standard rig does it well.

Just thought I would get some comments. Maybe this has been hashed out before on the Barn but thought I would bring it up again.

[Art Bjornestad]

Fred, I have run both a Borg Warner and a Volvo. They each require modifications however I think the Volvo is my choice because the shift is electrical with no reverse problems.

[skip]

Not. Why do you want to lug down the engine and go that fast for? You only have forty horses on a good day. Slow the engine down, you'll have less. Wind resistance squares as speed doubles...would Henry put an overdrive in?

skip.

[Fred K-OR]

Originally Posted by skip

Not. Why do you want to lug down the engine and go that fast for? You only have forty horses on a good day. Slow the engine down, you'll have less. Wind resistance squares as speed doubles...would Henry put an overdrive in?

skip.

Skip, you are right in that an old guy like me (75) shouldn't go that fast anyway. But it is tempting to have one so that I could take a few longer trips on freeways (maybe).

[Richard in Anaheim CA]

Fred & Skip,

I'm not satisfied with an occasional trip to the coffe shop. I may stop at your coffee shop for a cup with you on the way to Vancouver BC in 3 weeks. I will have about 800 miles on the road from Anaheim CA by then.

Life begins about 300 miles from home through the windshield of your Model A. It's almost erotic.

If you can't maintain 55 mph or more, a Model A is a menace on the freeway. An Overdrive and a High Compression head accomplishes that.

I don't feel everyone should have an OD. I have the highest regard for totally stock Model A's but you better have a trailer and a tow vehicle if you want to experience America the Beautiful in your Model A.

My "Avitar" shows my 28 Tudor in front of Portland Head light house in Maine last October .

Regards,

Richard
Anaheim CA

[Geo. H]

Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements)

High comp head, better cam 60 hp, install and OD. Try it. You'll like it.

[TerryH]

I will second Richard Parrish's thoughts....here in S. Calif. it is almost a necessity to use the freeways to tour much, and with an overdrive, good brakes, etc. you can easily cruise at 55-60 for hours. I happen to have the Mitchell and love the ease of operation and the versatility of being able to use 2nd hi when needed...it is great on twisting mountain roads!
My car is a Town Sedan, which is heavier than a coupe or roadster, so a high compression head is really desirable to help pull the higher ratio. If you have never experienced an overdrive in a Model A, take a ride with someone who has one, and experience what it is like to engage it at about 45 mph.....the car is much quieter and working easier....it is amazing.
If you are not going to tour much or use the freeways, than you probably do not need the expense and work involved.

[Jack '29 Sport Coupe]

I wouldn't be without one. Most of my driving is local, but on
occasion when I want to get out town without taking the back
roads, I can jump on the interstate and keep up with the traffic.
mine is a BW T-5. For those who might argue that "It's not the
way Henry built it" I would counter with "Roads of today are not
the roads that Henry drove." JMHO I agree with Skip on a lot
of subjects, but not this one.

Jack

[Cajun]

I run a 4.11 rear with an overdrive. You have the lower gears for great acceleration and then switch to OD and drop to 3.25 or so. The Mitchell OD is had to beat.

[kenparker]

As has been stated in the posts above, an OD is not needed if you are going to putter to the coffee shop each morning or motor to a car shoe or parade. But if you are on the highway regurarly as in a tour or have to comute to a club meet 5o miles away each month and OD is nice. If your Model A is restored right and engine in good condition and tuned correctly your engine can sustain 50-55-60 miles per hour, but she is operating at maximum capacity and that is not good for any engine to do that consistantly.

That is part of the purpose of the OD. Not to go faster but to lower the RPM and take some of the strain off the engine. For example my Coupe with F150 OD, in fourth gear, can run at 55 with only 1950 rpm. By comparison third gear which is same in stock Model A tranny she will run almost 2400 RPM. Also the engine makes less noise at 1950 RPM than at, Say 2400 RPM.

With the price of a rebuilt engine today we do whatever we can to preserve and prolong that engines life.

Lastly If you are gonna get'er up to 55 or 60 ya better be able to stop her "on a dime".

Just my 2 cents. Ken

[Richard Lorenz]

The noise with my '29 Tudor (no overdrive) is almost exclusively "air noise". Running the engine at lower rpm with an overdrive would not help my noise situation.

[steve s]

To answer your "what else" question, a high compression head would be most helpful, but some OD users in our club are happy with stock heads. Also, good brakes are essential.

If you try OD, you'll never go back. I've got the F150 conversion and love it. In addition to 4th gear, quietness and synchromesh are sweet--I still get all giggly every time I downshift into low. See earlier threads on mods needed for the F150 or T-5 conversions. My only regret is that I wish 2nd gear were higher.

If you don't mind another lever to fiddle with, the Mitchell is probably most efficient: minimal mods and 6 forward gears.

Steve

[Jack '29 Sport Coupe]

Back to the original post..........just keep checking the posts and
you will find whatever opinion you want to hear.

[John LaVoy]

A few years ago we did a comparison of all the available overdrives in the Model A Times. The choice comes down to what kind of touring will you be doing and what road conditions. Touring in Southern California is a lot different than Denver CO. If you are in an area with lots of hills and back roads you might consider the Mitchell it allows for shifting into OD going up hill when you drop down to 2nd gear. The other ODs require some coasting to engage. But they work well on flat terrain and freeways. We installed all three on cars to try them out and found each has positives and negatives it comes down to what you plan on doing with your car

[A-Jay]

Hey Guys, doe's anybody know where and when the Volvo overdrives were used, which model car and is there a name for it, like T-5 or something ? I have read a few things good about them. Electric switch no gear shift on the floor.

[steve s]

Originally Posted by John LaVoy

... If you are in an area with lots of hills and back roads you might consider the Mitchell it allows for shifting into OD going up hill when you drop down to 2nd gear. The other ODs require some coasting to engage. ...

In case someone's confused, John is talking about overdrives coupled with the original trans. Either the F-150 or the T-5 are complete, synchronized transmissions with OD as the highest gear that replace the old trans and let you shift up or down anytime, just like in a modern car.

Steve

[Ice man]

I put a T-5 in my 29 Pk Up and never looked back. I had to do an open drive line to do it but the rear end was shot and embabassing, it was really a growler.So I installed 3.54 gears, 16 Wires, A sweet B engine, Warmed a bit, and she would run, or just mop along if needed. But i'm not a pures't and really enjoy driving and old gal with some refinments. A F-1 Box is also a great addition for an old man like me, and I reciently got a 30 6 wheel roadster in the shop for some TLC. When the owner felt my steering set up he wanted an EZ Steer Box. And his is so original that its like Henry just made it, but hes all for a bit of MODERN in his old girl. You got to make your self happy with your ride. Iceman

[Fred K-OR]

Thanks guys. Gives me a lot to think about. It may seem like putting in a replacement tranny may be the easy way to go rather than doing a Mitchell which I understand you have to replace the drive line. Well at this point, I have to get the boss (wife) adjusted to the fact that maybe somewhere an upgrade to the old rig may be good to do. I have just got the shock of the orginal rebuild sort of cooled down so it may be awhile before the upgrade. Maybe a few more rides with her on the freeways at a slow speed will do the trick.

[Kahuna]

To me, an overdrive like this (Volvo) is the way to go.

[29RPU]

Ok, rookie question, but the above Volvo...This is essentially like the Mitchell correct, looks to be in the driveline. So where does one get the Volvo version? Is there fabrication to create this? What is the volvo deal? Thanks.

[sonny30coupe]

I too would like to know where I could pick up a Volvo OD

[John LaVoy]

Originally Posted by 29RPU

Ok, rookie question, but the above Volvo...This is essentially like the Mitchell correct, looks to be in the driveline. So where does one get the Volvo version? Is there fabrication to create this? What is the volvo deal? Thanks.

You are correct the Volvo and BorgWarner are fabrication pieces. When looking at these you have to have faith in the person doing the fabrication that the alignment is correct in the torque tube and the welds are good. We did an article in the Model A Times Summer 2005 where we compared the three available overdrives and listed vendors who did the fabrication. We installed all three units in cars and tested them out.

[pat in Santa Cruz]

the "volvo" is a Laycock De Normanville OD, which was in Volvos, MG's Jaguars, Austin Healeys and other European cars. Parts are still available. They shift with the flick of a switch, Downshifting from 3rd to 2nd over on a hill is a breeze...you flick the switch while you are double clutching and its a smooth as silk, unlike the clunky BW. The guy I got mine from is Rich Little in Shafter, a small farm town near Bakersfield Ca. Last I knew his email is: [email protected]

[mickeyb]

I have a mitchell in my 29 roadster,and love it.With my snyder head it's like a new car

[Tony S,Fl.]

Got a question about overdrives. About them I'm dumber than a rock. Driving say 50 MPH in hilly country in overdrive wouldn't that be lugging the engine up the hilld? and if you have to shift to a lower gear whats the advantage ? Does the unit have freewheeling ??? If so , kinda hard on the brakes ? As I said I need learnin. Tony

[steve s]

Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements)

Originally Posted by Tony S,Fl.

Got a question about overdrives. About them I'm dumber than a rock. Driving say 50 MPH in hilly country in overdrive wouldn't that be lugging the engine up the hilld? and if you have to shift to a lower gear whats the advantage ? Does the unit have freewheeling ??? If so , kinda hard on the brakes ? As I said I need learnin. Tony

Tony,
Overdrives are just like having another, higher gear. Like all of your other gear ratios, there's a speed and load range where they are helpful and other conditions where they can be harmful. Unless you have a really souped up motor with pressurized oil to bearings, you will need to downshift when pulling any but the slightest hill at 50 mph. Where you get your money's worth is on level ground at cruising speed--sounds like Florida to me. Then you can get the same speed with fewer motor rpms and less engine wear (UNLESS motor is being lugged), better mileage (maybe only slightly), and quieter ride.

None of current options are free-wheeling, unless you want to throw it into neutral--which I believe is illegal.

Steve

[MrTube]

In regards to peak HP being 40. I thought this was at 2200rpm on the A engine. If your going 60 you've already passed the peak and your power is dropping off big time. I would think overdrive would allow you to drop your RPM's right back into the power band and run 60-65mph with ease.

Perhaps i'm wrong about where the power peaks?

[pat in Santa Cruz]

the borg warner will free wheel, but I strongly recommend against a BW overdrive.. they're cumbersome to operate, parts are difficult to impossible to find, and they have a troublesome reputation with some owners. BWs are cheaper though, for reasons having to do with low demand due to their problems. A Volvo set up is about 1/2 the cost of a Mitchell, but the wait list is long, and a Mitchell can be delivered when its ordered. I use my OD most often in 2nd gear when climbing hills. Its the perfect in between gear. Its 26 %, which means when I am driving at 60 in high on the freeway, the engine is turning at the equivalent RPM as 48 in direct, which happens to be the sweet spot in my engine. I take it out of OD at 45 MPH on flats or at 50 on hills to avoid lugging. John LaVoy is very correct to suggest you make sure the machinist who does the conversion on Volvos or BWs knows what hes doing. With a Mitchell, you will have none of those concerns.

[Keith True]

Pat,Who is selling the converted Volvo unit for half the price of the Mitchell? I can lay my hands on plenty of the Volvo units still in the Volvos,although you have to sometimes take two or three apart to get enough for a good one.For some reason where I am the Volvo units are pretty well used up by the time they reach the junkyards.Most seem to have 3-400,000miles on them.Real popular commuter car here.

[29FordRoadster]

29RPU, Rich Little in Bakersfield, CA makes a Volvo overdrive conversion. The last time I talked with him there was about a 12 month waiting list. This may be shorter now. His phone number is: 661-746-2651. I have one of his units and really love it. Wayne

[A-Jay]

Here is a short piece I had seen about the Volvo overdrive if anybody cares to check it out. Heck the guys in the article maybe Ford Barners.
http://www.thelmasgarage.com/volvo.htm

[Herb Concord Ca]

I have a BW in my 31 p/u and a Vovlo in my 31 slant T/S. Without a doubt the Volvo is easier to use. Have used it for 5-6 years. Works Great.
Both cars have Brumfield 5.9 heads.
They cruise great at 55-60 all day.
I would never take a model A on a long tour (100 miles+) without an O/D.
My Volvo was built by Rich Little in Bakersfield - best in the business.
The guy in Southern CA had problems with his welds!

[pat in Santa Cruz]

Originally Posted by Keith True

Pat,Who is selling the converted Volvo unit for half the price of the Mitchell? I can lay my hands on plenty of the Volvo units still in the Volvos,although you have to sometimes take two or three apart to get enough for a good one.For some reason where I am the Volvo units are pretty well used up by the time they reach the junkyards.Most seem to have 3-400,000miles on them.Real popular commuter car here.

I got mine from Rich Little some time ago. It was 1200 when Mitchells were 2200. Rich re-builds them completely, offers an optional oil resevoir and makes a beautiful conversion. He is backlogged quite a bit, typical for good machinists, and he is retired so does not put in a full day either. I have a BW, a Mitchell and the Volvo, which is my favorite for ease of use and low profile appearance. The Mitchell is a good OD, but I do not like the extra shift lever. I have the Volvo switch on the lever for shifting on the fly when double clutching, but you can hide it under the floor mat using an old foot operated dimmer switch, and no one will know the car is not stock....Unless they look under the chassis.

[Geo. H]

The so called Volvo overdrive was actually made by a British company. The overdrives were used in Jaguar, Triumph, etc. but are most easily found in Volvos from the 70's and 80's. Some serious machine work is required to install them in a Model A driveline. Usual cost for one ready to install is $1000-1200. The overdrive is electric/hydraulic, shifts like an auto trans, and requires only a switch to operate. There have been guys in Texas and Calif. building them in the past. Not sure of availability today.

[Kahuna]

Contact Glenn Pyzak @ [email protected] He does excellent work and guarantees it