Need Help! Head problems?

[Not George]

Hi guys,
I got this 28 sedan a couple of weeks ago and it is in a state of somewhat disassembly.
My first goal is to just get her started. It had no radiator hoses when I got it, so I replaced them. Everything seemed to be fine, but a few days latter I discovered this.
I realize this could be the head gasket, warped head, improper toque or possibly any number of things I am not aware of. If you have any suggestions, please let me know.
When checking the head with a straight edge, what are my tolerances? Can I remove the head with the water pump on it if I protect the radiator?
Thanks guys, your help is always appreciated.
Marty

[CarlG]

Always put a piece of cardboard in there to protect the radiator, but the head comes off nicely with the water pump & fan still attached. BTW, don't forget to take the cardboard out before trying to start the engine after assembly!

[1931 flamingo]

You might try re-torqueing the head and try it that way for a whilw before trying to disassemble. Nothing to lose.
Paul in CT

[Chris in CT]

Hi NG, Some seepage around the head is not uncommon in Model A's. I would check the head torque first before removing the head. You might possibly be OK. Tighten the head and run it, checking for fresh seepage, and also for water in the oil. Then remove the head if your suspicions are not allayed. Happy Motoring!

[jrapose]

Yes I agree, some seepage is normal, but yours is excessive... I always use one of those composition gaskets with a good coat of High Tack..a gasket spray...both surfaces can not have a polished surface...it needs to be almost course finish to hold the gasket from moving....check at the automotive machine shop and they will show you the surface you should have...almost cuts your hand when you rub you hand on it... I see that they now sell a modern gasket with silicone beads on it, that sure would help... on the composition gasket you should re-torque the gasket at least 4 times after installlation...something like at an hour of running...after 10 miles, after 100 miles and after 500 miles...each time it will compress the inter part of the composition a tiny bit...that is what is casusing the seepage on your engine.
You might try retorquing now but I suspect it is too late....you can clean the rust off the block with Lime Away...it will lighten the paint a tad...just don't leave it on long..

Joel
Master ASE Mechanic
Professor of Technology, retired
Oxnard College

[Not George]

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Originally Posted by Chris in CT

Hi NG, Some seepage around the head is not uncommon in Model A's. I would check the head torque first before removing the head. You might possibly be OK. Tighten the head and run it, checking for fresh seepage, and also for water in the oil. Then remove the head if your suspicions are not allayed. Happy Motoring!

Thanks Chris
No water in the oil!

[Not George]

Any one else?

[western77]

You could try a product to seal the head gasket on the car. Synders sell a product called Irontite. I have used it and it worked great. And no it didn't plug the radiator. JB

[700rpm]

I would torque the head bolts, wipe down the block so you can more readily see any leaks, and put some Bar's Leak in the water. Leaving a stop-leak solution in is a matter of personal preference; I usually drain it out about 100 miles after retorqueing the head. Keep in mind that the head seems like a big hunk of metal, but it does flex, which is why torque sequence is important, and why a more compressible head gasket and proper sealant will sometimes solve the leaking problem.

I think Chris's suggestions are good too.

[Patrick L.]

I agree with the above regarding re-torqueing the head [ in a circular manner from center outward]..

Regarding your question about warpage,, .004" on an iron head is OK.. Over that and it needs cutting..

[Not George]

Originally Posted by Patrick L.

I agree with the above regarding re-torqueing the head [ in a circular manner from center outward]..

Regarding your question about warpage,, .004" on an iron head is OK.. Over that and it needs cutting..

Thanks Patrick

[glenn in camino]

Previous posts are correct. When I install a head, I always spray copper coat on both sides of the gasket and place a 2" piece of copper wire on the block between 1&2 and 3&4 to reinforce those narrow places between cylinders. I've never blown a head gasket between those cylinders. Retorquing 3 or 4 times in the first 100 or so milesis also important. If some water sepage happens, I sand the area and repaint

[Tom Wesenberg]

Since it was stored without hoses, there's a real good chance that mice have built nests in the head and radiator. Just one more reason for overheating.

[Art Bjornestad]

Glen, what gauge wire do you use? Art

[cabrioletgalaxie]

So what is the head currently torqued at now? We are dying to know this.
When you take the head off use the best gasket out there. You might consider using the one for the high comp head as it has a preinstalled bead of sealant in place. Use no other spray or gasket cement. Then re-torque using Les Andrews sequencing. It takes some time but is a good method.
Let us all know how you do.

[tbirdtbird]

That entire cooling system, block, head, rad., etc needs to be flushed before you do much else.
Then run 50-50 antifreeze (for freeze protection, overheat protection, and anti-rust additives),
then re-torque as stated above; and the problem will prolly go away.
If this is your first Model A be careful of the torque you apply to the 2 water neck nuts. I am sure there are many opinions out there about this and many threads; many of us use 5 pounds less on those 2 nuts so the water neck won't crack

[BILL WILLIAMSON]

Water neck won't crack if you use the paper thin neck gasket, or just a bead of silicone rubber, trust me, I KNOW!! Bill W.

[columbiA]

I never use a gasket on the water neck.File or sand the neck until its flat,then use a light coat of silicone and you will be able to torque all head nuts to 55 lbs without fear of breaking the water neck.As Tom W says,flush out the block well as you dont know whats in there.

[Not George]

Thanks again for all the help guys!
I do have Les Andrew's book and plan to do exactly as he says, but those are mostly procedures, you guys are giving me real life experiences.

[CarlG]

Originally Posted by glenn in camino

...I ... place a 2" piece of copper wire on the block between 1&2 and 3&4 to reinforce those narrow places between cylinders...

What gauge (size) wire do you use?

(Oops! Didn't read far enough, Art already asked this question!)