The Ford Barn

daveymc29 · 02-01-2015, 12:38 PM

I took the car to a Cars and Coffee thing at the Blackhawk Museum and there is a slight hill to get to the parking lot. Stopped for traffic and when I went to move on up the hill the gear grinding was load as ever. It is such a slight slope that i was able to go to second and drive into the lot. When I got there, all the gears work fine. I am baffled. Yesterday it worked just fine, now I again have low gear problems? There was no missing teeth, nothing seemed loose and it appears to only be a problem on an incline going forward. I used low gear for about 3/4 of a mile coming down the hill yesterday and it held just fine. Any more ideas what could be going on?

Tom Endy · 02-01-2015, 12:43 PM

A long shot: The thrust washer on the rear main may be worn allowing movement of the crank. On an incline is slides rearward and jams the clutch.

Tom Endy

Marshall V. Daut · 02-01-2015, 12:59 PM

Years ago the cluster gear shaft in my '31 Roadster broke in two. Why, I have no idea. Probably a cheap imported shaft from the 1970's or 980's that came with the car when I bought it in 1984. The broken shaft allowed the cluster gear to move up and down slightly, as the two shaft halves flexed at the break. That caused noise and sometimes shifting problems. In Phoenix where I drove at the time, I didn't encounter any inclines that would have possibly caused the cluster gear to tip downwards in the back going uphill. I can imagine that had the gear changed angles like that - even slightly - it may have bound itself up against the small high gear up front on the main shaft, but laid back down again on level ground. Then the transmission could be shifted, but it still had some growling noise. Outside of that noise (which you didn't mention), this could be what's happening inside your transmission.
Without fully tearing it apart, you might be able to slip a looped wire underneath the cluster gear, grab the one end and pull up so that the gear is "cradled" in the loop. Then pull up on the wire to see if the cluster gear moves. It shouldn't. If it wiggles up and down even a little, it may be caused by a broken cluster gear shaft or even one of the two roller bearings inside. Check this out before panicking too much.
Marshall

scrapiron · 02-01-2015, 03:37 PM

,,,not to be a S-A,,,but maybe you need to move the seat up to be sure the pedal is on the floor for complete dis-engagement when going to first, it can happen.

Brentwood Bob · 02-01-2015, 04:19 PM

Dave, pull off the inspection plate and check the throwout and give it some grease. Was it checked since you started driving the car? That drive train was very quiet when I got a ride in it. As said above start with the simple stuff first. I think the car just shows issues related to being stored, and not driven much in its recent life.

Keith True · 02-01-2015, 06:19 PM

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It might be time to take a look at the bullets and springs (detents) in the top cover.If they hang up or if a spring breaks you may shift fine five times,then crunch the next.That's kind of a common thing on cars that have sat around,then get put into use again.I've seen the springs broken in those and the bullets locked in their bores.

daveymc29 · 02-01-2015, 08:24 PM

I wonder why only on an incline? It is like the tips of the gears are barely touching, not enough to even move the car at all, but going down hill, first gear holds it back fine and one the level I have three forward and reverse with no slippage. Tomorrow I'll do the wire under the cluster and see about movement. Tom Endy, if the crank slid back, wouldn't I have the same problem in any gear while still on the same incline? Scrapiron, pedal is flat on the floor and fully disengaged. Thanks all, still pondering.

daveymc29 · 02-02-2015, 09:53 PM

Now I am really confused. Took the tower out, cleaned it spotless, ran a wire under the lay-gear and no movement. Jacked up a rear wheel and kicked the tire around as I looked at every tooth on every gear. No missing teeth, chips, gaul, or burrs. Took the car to the bottom of my hill, put it in first and drove to the first speed bump just fine, after the bump was crossed shifted into second and drove to the next one, slowed real slow and dropped it into first and no problem. Did the whole hill twice, once stopping or slowing to a crawl and shifting to first. The second time I just drove it normally, though I did slow enough to go into first a couple of times. this is a 12% grade in spots, maybe a tad more. Private street. Descended the hill in first both times, I use the engine to assist the mechanical brakes, no grinding anywhere. The mystery is still there, but I'm happy that the problem has gone on somehow.

larrys40 · 02-03-2015, 12:58 AM

I like a good troubleshooting challenge! Davey... is the gear shift lever travel the same when you were traveling up the hill above as well as down? in other words is the travel of the gear shift lever always the same or just seems like a short throw or changed when the noise is apparent.

Are you sure it's transmission as opposed to rear axle/torque tube noise? I might suggest taking the floorboard out and driving the car nearby and see if you can hear/duplicate it. You can put a button on the foot feed if need be (or not) .
Do you feel grinding/vibration on the gearshift lever?

Larry

02-01-2015, 12:38 PM	#1
daveymc29 Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2010 Location: Danville, CA Posts: 1,554	Spoke too soon/tranny quirk I took the car to a Cars and Coffee thing at the Blackhawk Museum and there is a slight hill to get to the parking lot. Stopped for traffic and when I went to move on up the hill the gear grinding was load as ever. It is such a slight slope that i was able to go to second and drive into the lot. When I got there, all the gears work fine. I am baffled. Yesterday it worked just fine, now I again have low gear problems? There was no missing teeth, nothing seemed loose and it appears to only be a problem on an incline going forward. I used low gear for about 3/4 of a mile coming down the hill yesterday and it held just fine. Any more ideas what could be going on?

02-01-2015, 12:43 PM	#2
Tom Endy Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Southern California Posts: 3,131	Re: Spoke too soon/tranny quirk A long shot: The thrust washer on the rear main may be worn allowing movement of the crank. On an incline is slides rearward and jams the clutch. Tom Endy

02-01-2015, 12:59 PM	#3
Marshall V. Daut Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2011 Location: Davenport, Iowa Posts: 2,111	Re: Spoke too soon/tranny quirk Years ago the cluster gear shaft in my '31 Roadster broke in two. Why, I have no idea. Probably a cheap imported shaft from the 1970's or 980's that came with the car when I bought it in 1984. The broken shaft allowed the cluster gear to move up and down slightly, as the two shaft halves flexed at the break. That caused noise and sometimes shifting problems. In Phoenix where I drove at the time, I didn't encounter any inclines that would have possibly caused the cluster gear to tip downwards in the back going uphill. I can imagine that had the gear changed angles like that - even slightly - it may have bound itself up against the small high gear up front on the main shaft, but laid back down again on level ground. Then the transmission could be shifted, but it still had some growling noise. Outside of that noise (which you didn't mention), this could be what's happening inside your transmission. Without fully tearing it apart, you might be able to slip a looped wire underneath the cluster gear, grab the one end and pull up so that the gear is "cradled" in the loop. Then pull up on the wire to see if the cluster gear moves. It shouldn't. If it wiggles up and down even a little, it may be caused by a broken cluster gear shaft or even one of the two roller bearings inside. Check this out before panicking too much. Marshall

02-01-2015, 03:37 PM	#4
scrapiron Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2010 Location: Independence, VA Posts: 423	Re: Spoke too soon/tranny quirk ,,,not to be a S-A,,,but maybe you need to move the seat up to be sure the pedal is on the floor for complete dis-engagement when going to first, it can happen.

02-01-2015, 04:19 PM	#5
Brentwood Bob Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: brentwood, ca Posts: 4,245	Re: Spoke too soon/tranny quirk Dave, pull off the inspection plate and check the throwout and give it some grease. Was it checked since you started driving the car? That drive train was very quiet when I got a ride in it. As said above start with the simple stuff first. I think the car just shows issues related to being stored, and not driven much in its recent life.

02-01-2015, 06:19 PM	#6
Keith True Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Epping N.H. Posts: 2,987	Re: Spoke too soon/tranny quirk Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements) It might be time to take a look at the bullets and springs (detents) in the top cover.If they hang up or if a spring breaks you may shift fine five times,then crunch the next.That's kind of a common thing on cars that have sat around,then get put into use again.I've seen the springs broken in those and the bullets locked in their bores.

02-01-2015, 08:24 PM	#7
daveymc29 Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2010 Location: Danville, CA Posts: 1,554	Re: Spoke too soon/tranny quirk I wonder why only on an incline? It is like the tips of the gears are barely touching, not enough to even move the car at all, but going down hill, first gear holds it back fine and one the level I have three forward and reverse with no slippage. Tomorrow I'll do the wire under the cluster and see about movement. Tom Endy, if the crank slid back, wouldn't I have the same problem in any gear while still on the same incline? Scrapiron, pedal is flat on the floor and fully disengaged. Thanks all, still pondering.

02-02-2015, 09:53 PM	#8
daveymc29 Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2010 Location: Danville, CA Posts: 1,554	Re: Spoke too soon/tranny quirk Now I am really confused. Took the tower out, cleaned it spotless, ran a wire under the lay-gear and no movement. Jacked up a rear wheel and kicked the tire around as I looked at every tooth on every gear. No missing teeth, chips, gaul, or burrs. Took the car to the bottom of my hill, put it in first and drove to the first speed bump just fine, after the bump was crossed shifted into second and drove to the next one, slowed real slow and dropped it into first and no problem. Did the whole hill twice, once stopping or slowing to a crawl and shifting to first. The second time I just drove it normally, though I did slow enough to go into first a couple of times. this is a 12% grade in spots, maybe a tad more. Private street. Descended the hill in first both times, I use the engine to assist the mechanical brakes, no grinding anywhere. The mystery is still there, but I'm happy that the problem has gone on somehow.

02-03-2015, 12:58 AM	#9
larrys40 Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: St Charles , Missouri Posts: 1,998	Re: Spoke too soon/tranny quirk I like a good troubleshooting challenge! Davey... is the gear shift lever travel the same when you were traveling up the hill above as well as down? in other words is the travel of the gear shift lever always the same or just seems like a short throw or changed when the noise is apparent. Are you sure it's transmission as opposed to rear axle/torque tube noise? I might suggest taking the floorboard out and driving the car nearby and see if you can hear/duplicate it. You can put a button on the foot feed if need be (or not) . Do you feel grinding/vibration on the gearshift lever? Larry