Electrolytic rust removal of door parts

[30cabriolet]

I am planning on removing the rust from my cabriolet door latches and window regulators. Are there any reasons that I can not do this? Will all the gears and internal parts stand up to electrolytic rust removal?

[mot]

no they will not
remove the springs and it will clean the rest perfectly
tom

[mrtexas]

You can do it easier with Evapo-rust.
phil

[Kevin in NJ]

The difference between Evaporust and electrolytic is what happens to the rust. The evaporust takes all the iron oxide away. The electrolytic process will convert the black rust back to iron so you keep some of the metal.

[30cabriolet]

Originally Posted by mrtexas

You can do it easier with Evapo-rust.
phil

I have done rust removal both ways, and they both have their places, but a large tank of water is cheaper than Evapo-rust; which costs 20-30 dollars a gallon.

[N ReedBen]

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I have used electrolitic rust removal for the whole door plus all the parts using a 150 gallon stock tank and a whole box of washing soda. It takes all the rust off plus all the paint and any sound insulator left inside the door. The small parts would be better off in a smaller container. This method is "line of sight" sensitive so the placement of the electrodes is critical to a good job. I agree that it is much less expensive than Evapo-Rust.

N.Reed

[Dave27]

I sand blasted all of mine and repainted them they work great and look brand new. Mine didnt have any rust though.

[Jason in TX]

I was going to also add that Electrolitic rust removal is line of sight, so anything that is not in direct line with the electrodes will not be de-rusted. You also have to plug it in for a while. Sodium Carbonate (pH plus in the pool chemical isle) and electricity has a cost, and over time and all the parts you will do, that adds up.

Evapo-rust will remove the rust everywhere. It's not going to remove metal so that these window regulators "crumble apart." It doesn't remove anything else, or affect any other types of metal such as copper, aluminum, etc.

Evapo-rust is re-usable, so when you're done, pour it back in the jug and use it 10-15 more times on all your other rusty parts. If some evaporates off, you add more water.

Use a %20 off coupon at harbor freight, or BUY IT HERE for $13.45 a gallon.

[mot]

I have been using electrolisis continually for about 5 years
the cost?
one quart of sodium carbonate about $8
one old battery charger at a swap meet $5
I have been using the same sodium carbonate for 5 years and at this rate I will still be using it for the next 10 years
I put less than a cup in a 3X5 plastic tank
so far this year i have changed the water once
usage 1/2 cup
i also use a bucket for small parts like carburators and use about a tablespoon (probably too much) and have change the water once this year
i have been cleaning carburators and usually dont take them apart if they are frozen
elcectrolysis does not clean only line of sight because it cleans inside the carbs
I have cleaned doors ,and it cleans them inside and out,
I dont know where this line of sight came about
I only use one large anode on one side,and it cleans every thing, front, back, inside ,outside,top and bottom
it has absolutly no affect on copper ,aluminum brass .zinc
I forgot a carburator once and went on vacation for a week,the carb was perfectly clean with no damage to the brass or zinc parts
it did not "crumble" my window regulators and I have done 6-7 of them.It will cause embrittlement of the springs ,as will any acid
my window regulators were very rusty and they came out perfectly clean
my favorite thing i cleaned was a rusty spartan horn
someone had sandblasted the outside and painted it pretty
inside it had obviously sat in water for some time and was rusted solid ,the armature would not even turn
after soaking it in the electrolysis tank overnight ,i wire brushed it and all the screws came loose,the armature was free and no damage to the insulation commutator or brushes it is now a working horn
advantages of electrolysis
cheap ,does not damage other metals usually loosens rusted nuts and bolts
many small nuts were freed and came free by hand
as Kevin said ,severly rusted bumper ends were able to be taken off
I have had my battery charger hooked up for at least 4 years without turning them off
many times it removes most if not all the paint
usually just hoseing it off removes the paint
also sodium carbonate is what is used in your pool to bring the PH down so in controlled amounts it is drinkable
many animals drink from my big tank
and so far I have found none dead 6 coyotes cant be wrong
the down side is small parts as they have to be connected to the negative side of the charger
I like evaporust for inside the block and for small parts ,but dont like the cost
elctrolysis is useable all year long with me ,as we dont have freezing weather here
here is one of my window regulators cleaned with electrolysis
notice it is not crumbling and look at the detail it cleans it to ,you can read the makers mark very clearly,the picture is low res ,it is much sharper than pictured
tom

[d.j. moordigian]

Tom,
I have been using Vince's ratio of 2 tablespoons per gallon in( Arm & Hammer )
my 5 gal container here at work, works very well.

With out starting a war!

I'm setting up a 55 gal unit at home( will be running tonight ), @ Vince's ratio
that's about 4 cups! Yours is much less!
Did I miss something or do I just guess/throw some in and go-for-it?
Thanks, Dudley

[Larry Seemann]

The ratio isn't critical. If it's not working fast enough throw in some more. Not rocket surgery.

[norson]

I use feed store molasses. Mix it 7 to 1 with water. I have a 350 gal. stock tank. It's large enough to fit cowls, doors and quarters. Two weeks and and it is bare metal. It won't remove paint, chrome or undercoat. I pay $90 for 50 gals. I replace the mix after every three loads of parts.

[dave in australia]

I also don't know where the line of sight story started. I have used the electrolytic rust removal for years and never had a line of sight problem, it takes longer to get the hidden places, but it does remove the rust.

[Terry, NJ]

I first heard about electrolisys here on FB. I set it up in a plastic garbage can (30 gal?) I've found everything Tom says to be true. The only problem is I can't remember the polarity, which leads go where. I've got CRS (Can't Remember Stuff) Let's see, Positive flows to negative or is it the other way around?
The "Line of sight" thing hasn't worked for me either. It doesn't seem to be directional. It seems to go everywhere that's under the water. Here's a tip. Bearing in mind that pure distilled water is nonconductive, if you have well water, there may be enough impurities to trigger the process without adding anything to the water. I have to explore this deeper.
Terry

[dave in australia]

Terry, the part to be cleaned is connected to negative.

[N ReedBen]

I saw the "line of site" warning on a web site on eletrolitic rust removal. Since then I have bought carbon rods from Grainger's and found that the line of site thing does not apply. I was using re-rod and it did apply in that instance. The carbon rods are 5/8 in. dia. about 10 in. long. You get 5 in a box for about $8.00 plus shipping. The carbon rods don't make the water nasty like the steel rods do and you don't have to clean them at all.

N. Reed

[Rich in Tucson]

N. Reed - have you got a Grainger part number? I can find thin copper-clad arc gouging rods on their site but not the plain ones you describe. Thanks!

[29restorod]

I found that putting a 12V battery,in the circuit,with the charger,greatly improves the process. Rusty parts were taking several days to clean,with just a charger. Adding a good battery,sped up the process to 8-12 hours. I cleaned a flathead V8 block,inside and out.

[Ross/Kzoo]

Originally Posted by 29restorod

I found that putting a 12V battery,in the circuit,with the charger,greatly improves the process. Rusty parts were taking several days to clean,with just a charger. Adding a good battery,sped up the process to 8-12 hours. I cleaned a flathead V8 block,inside and out.

Could you explain your hookup?

[N ReedBen]

The carbon rods that I got are called "Plain Gouging Carbons" 5/8"/15.87mm
P/N PGC-58-5. I think they were on the same page as the copper clad rods in the catalog. My son has my catalog right now or I could give you a page number.

N. Reed

[blgitn]

Would increasing the size of the battery charger have the same effect as adding a battery to the circuit?

Originally Posted by 29restorod

I found that putting a 12V battery,in the circuit,with the charger,greatly improves the process. Rusty parts were taking several days to clean,with just a charger. Adding a good battery,sped up the process to 8-12 hours. I cleaned a flathead V8 block,inside and out.

R/ Roger.

[Cool Hand Lurker]

Hook up the charger to the battery as you normally would. Run wires from the battery positive post to the rod and from the negative post to the part. You get full charge from the battery to remove the rust and the charger keeps the battery charged up.
A lot of chargers only put out what the battery needs, and to do that they need feedback from the battery. The charger doesn't get that from the electrolysis so it won't put out as much as it would if connected to the battery.

[MikeK]

Originally Posted by blgitn

Would increasing the size of the battery charger have the same effect as adding a battery to the circuit?

No. Some battery chargers have only a half wave rectifier, not a full bridge. This give you 30 pulses ON and 30 equal length off times per second on 60Hz power. Good for a battery that needs plate degassing time, not so good for any kind of plating/unplating operation. Even with a full bridge charger, there are times in the output waveform where the voltage is below 12V. In either case, adding the battery parallel to the circuit gives a different final waveform with more area (power) under the curve. As Vince mentioned, a battery is dangerous in this app. You could accomplish the same time improvement by running a huge capacitor, like the 1 farad jobs used by the guys who like 1000 watt amps and 16" speakers in their rice mobiles.

[Tom Wesenberg]

Originally Posted by rustyrim

Would a transformer work better for this ?

A battery charger is a transformer, with a rectifier added to change AC to DC. If you desire a smoother waveform, then you can add a large capacitor as Mike mentioned.

[29restorod]

The detailed instructions,I downloaded 10 years ago,stated you needed a battery,and a charger. It did say not to use stainless steel,as the anode. It produces a dangerous gas,you should not breathe.

[Cool Hand Lurker]

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fordgarage said "Putting a battery in the circuit may sound like a good idea at first, but it is very dangerous and a good way to blow up a battery if any short in your tank. No way I would recommend it!"and he is right, there is some danger.

Once I was not careful with placement of the parts and the anode(+) touched the part(-) while I was away from the tank. The jumper cables I was using for the connections literally melted the insulation and burned the copper conductor in two. I always do my de-rusting outside because of the fumes and because like Vince says, it can be dangerous.
Also it is a good idea to put a fuse in the circuit or use lighter wires that will fail in case of a short, for safety and to protect the battery.

[Bob C]

A lot of the posts I read it sounds like the parts come out looking sparkly clean like new. I have used molasses and electrolytic cleaning and the parts always need
wire brushing or a good scrubbing. Some parts are easy to clean but if they have a
lot of nooks and crannies it's a real pain. What am I doing wrong?

Bob

[Wick]

has anyone done a gas tank yet?
Wick

[bigmaxum]

I talked to Grainger this AM and they do not have the rods under that name or PN. Everything they had that looked close sold in 50+ quantitys. How long ago did you purchase the rods.

[Bob C]

Bigmaxum, He may have meant McMaster-Carr. I just bought some 5/8"
from them, 5pack 7979A18 $7.90.

Bob

[mot]

yes
i have done gas tanks
it cleans the inside,but i dont have a way to remove the black oxide easily inside
the tank
i use a soft 3M fiber wheel to remove the oxide,it dosnt remove the terne coating as does sand blasting
this tank was only done on the bottom
I have to turn it over and do the top
today I am doing a coil and yesterday did a jack
over the course of at least 5 years,my total cost has been
$8 for the sodium carbonate,about $10 for the lumber to build my big tank ,and I think about $20 for the black plastic liner
and $5 for each battery charger
I have done a complete car,many doors,three rumble lids wheels,seats,horns,window frames,you name it
all for less than $50 ,I still have most of the sodium carbonate left
and the battery chargers serve dual useage as (what else)battery chargers
for the sacraficial anode I use any old scrap piece of iron.like a pipe,or flywheel,disc brake drum etc
you just have to clean the anode every few days as it gets a rusty coating that wont conduct electricity well
tom

[bigmaxum]

7979A18 @ McMaster Carr is right. Thanks