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Old 08-25-2014, 09:19 AM   #1
lwannem
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Default Transmission oil leak

I am restoring an early (canadian) 28 tudor. I filled the transmission with 600w oil the other day, only to find it all on the ground.The oil is apparently leaking from the shaft retainer @ the back of the transmission (see photos) The bolt will not allow me to remove the retainer because it hits the bearing retainer housing.I am aware there is a sela kit that will help me stop the oil leak, however I can not get the retatner off. It appears i would have to drop the driveshaft and rear end to gain access to the retainer. Any suugetions as to how i can stop this oil leak without a major overhaul of the drivetrain??
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Old 08-25-2014, 10:12 AM   #2
Mitch//pa
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Default Re: Transmission oil leak

the retainer bolt you pictured goes directly into the trans oil, it is not a blind hole..put sealer on the threads and reinstall hopefully that will slow it down.
yes the shafts can also leak but i would seal up that bolt first and see if it helps
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Old 08-25-2014, 10:21 AM   #3
d.j. moordigian
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Default Re: Transmission oil leak

I agree with Mitch....tho I think it's the wrong length bolt!
My question is...is that a crack repair on the case, leading down from
the cluster gear shaft (lay shaft) towards the bottom of the case?
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Old 08-25-2014, 10:32 AM   #4
lwannem
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Default Re: Transmission oil leak

I cannot see any crack or repair in the housing. My first thought was to cut off the bolt and install a seal, but i wasn't sure that the boft may be holding something else inside the housing. Thanks for the quick response to my question!!!!
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Old 08-25-2014, 10:43 AM   #5
d.j. moordigian
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Default Re: Transmission oil leak

Well,..I guess I was being polite....that's a crack repair, I could be wrong,
but I don't think so.
Take a wire brush and clean that area, right below the center shaft. The cases
never looked like that unless it had been repaired..
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Old 08-25-2014, 11:26 AM   #6
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Default Re: Transmission oil leak

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I think you're right D.J., it's a case repair weld. But its apparent from the oil tracks that it is not leaking and the leak is occurring from underneath the plate. Possibly the bolt - which by the way does go into the case - but does not hold anything else.

With the bolt undone as you show it, try cleaning it with a toothbrush and trichlorethene (or whatever), smear a bunch of Permatex No. 2 on it, wind it home and see if that stops the leak.

Otherwise it will be either seal cover overlay or O-ring'ed sealed grooved shafts. Bearing retainer has to come off for the seal cover option apparently. Well, you might try a saws-all and cut the bolt such that the remaining piece could be removed with your fingers, and then use a slightly shorter bolt in it's place that will clear the bearing retainer. Permatex No. 2 per above as insurance.

But it would destroy yet another of those remarkable Ford swaged head bolts.

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Old 08-25-2014, 11:42 AM   #7
BILL WILLIAMSON
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Default Re: Transmission oil leak

I think D.J. is right, about a crack. Leak is BAD from the R/H shaft!
I'd try this: Drain the trans, & let it sit for a couple of days, then clean the WHOLE area around both shafts & the retainer plate with acetone, wire brush, etc. THEN, coat over the WHOLE area, including the retainer, bolt head & shafts, with lots of RTV. You can smooth it with your wet finger, then paint it nicely.
Sounds "MICKEY MOUSE," BUT it's either that, or replace the case.
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Old 08-25-2014, 11:49 AM   #8
Tom Endy
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Default Re: Transmission oil leak

Looks like a weld repair to me. Right next to the cluster gear shaft. I don't think one of those little castings they sell will stop the leak. Best to find another transmission housing. There are plenty of them still around.

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Old 08-25-2014, 11:54 AM   #9
J Franklin
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Default Re: Transmission oil leak

My first thought when I saw the bolt dilemma; that it was a great engineering subtlety. Losing that one bolt might be catastrophic. Any comment?
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Old 08-25-2014, 12:01 PM   #10
lwannem
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Default Re: Transmission oil leak

I apologize !!! Yes there was a major repair of the housing done some place in time, however I did check that repair earlier with fuel oil to see if it was going to be a problem and there was no leaks. I am going to clean the bolt as best I can with cleaning fluid and put some permatex on the threads first to see if I can slow down the leak. If that doesn't work I will cut the bolt off with a cutting wheel as close to the head as possible and replace it with a bolt that will fit with the retainer in place. Thanks Again!!!!
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Old 08-25-2014, 12:04 PM   #11
d.j. moordigian
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Default Re: Transmission oil leak

Joe and Willie...

We all agree the case had a crack repair...correct?
The questions are..

1. How did the crack stop short of the cluster gear shaft hole?
Answer,...It didn't, the crack is in the hole and that's were the oil is
coming from...
2. How was the crack repaired?
Answer,....Arc welder, which distorted the hole / case....

Too "Iwannem", how long have you owned the car?
Put a "band-aid" if you can, and change the case out this winter before
the gears are junk..
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Old 08-25-2014, 12:07 PM   #12
J Franklin
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Default Re: Transmission oil leak

Before deciding to cut the bolt I wonder if the retainer with shafts couldn't be pried slightly forward and use Bills plan. That RTV will squeeze into any voids. I think you can get it in black. Are you using 600 gear oil? Good luck with your quest.
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Old 08-25-2014, 12:08 PM   #13
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Default Re: Transmission oil leak

If the case is otherwise sound, it might be a candidate for gyptol on the inside.

But then again - $40 can bring you a case perfect and even blasted.

Heck, the dump nazi gave me a Model A transmission complete...

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Old 08-25-2014, 12:14 PM   #14
Mitch//pa
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Default Re: Transmission oil leak

good eye guys
i didnt open the attachmments to make them larger..
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Old 08-26-2014, 09:41 AM   #15
lwannem
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Default Re: Transmission oil leak

Wow !! d.j. Your eyes are unbelievable. Yes it looks like it was arc welded and I purchased the car completely dissassembled, so I have never driven it before. We just fired up the motor this weekend and it runs and sounds fine. I will attempt to drive it this fall to see if there is any other problems. I will next spring change out that defective box.No sense risking the gears.
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Old 08-26-2014, 11:49 AM   #16
Jerry in Shasta
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Default Re: Transmission oil leak

Is the "rubber" boot and metal cover for sealing the to
shaft ends still available?

Sound like it "might " help
JB
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Old 08-26-2014, 03:59 PM   #17
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Default Re: Transmission oil leak

Quote:
Originally Posted by d.j. moordigian View Post
Joe and Willie...

We all agree the case had a crack repair...correct?
The questions are..

1. How did the crack stop short of the cluster gear shaft hole?
Answer,...It didn't, the crack is in the hole and that's were the oil is
coming from...
2. How was the crack repaired?
Answer,....Arc welder, which distorted the hole / case....

Too "Iwannem", how long have you owned the car?
Put a "band-aid" if you can, and change the case out this winter before
the gears are junk..
if you drain the oil and acetone wirebrush etc the area clean as can be you can put a layer of JB weld (or stick weld) over the cracked case and seal oil leaks. easy way to repair cracked cases in modern cars when a goober tightens the tapered drain/fill plugs too tight

but what other have said i would RTV the threads and wind her in. let it sit a few days then fil it up and hope for the best. If it doesnt hold your not out a whole lot of money (since the fluid is new you can drain into a clean bucket to reuse)
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Old 10-13-2014, 07:16 PM   #18
harleytoprock
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Default Re: Transmission oil leak

The seal kit won't work on a early tranmission like yours. You have the 1/4" thick flat shaft retainer and the later ones were 1/8" thick. Also the reverse gear shaft also sticks out to far and the seal kit cover won't rest on the mounting surface. Ford had shortened the bolt later on and with the thinner plate, the bolt will come out with no problems like your having. Mine is also leaking from the counter shaft and I also have the early thicker retaining plate. So far I have no real good solution to stop the leak. But I keep thinking.
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Old 10-13-2014, 08:08 PM   #19
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Default Re: Transmission oil leak

A simple easy fix but not one for fine point cars etc... Drain all the oil out of the transmission, remove the retainer bolt and plate and clean them all really, really well with denatured alcohol or such. Re-assemble and clean again. Right after cleaning right apply a reasonable coat of black silicone gasket caulking to cover all of the seams, shafts, plate, bolt head etc... It does not need to be put on uber thick and clunky. If done with some care it will hardly be noticeable. Very few people will ever crawl under your A and look at it that hard. It's not a pressurized gear box so a little silicone will hold any oil wanting to come out. Just paint first because paint won't stick to silicone.
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Old 10-13-2014, 08:26 PM   #20
Purdy Swoft
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Default Re: Transmission oil leak

this may be a long shot but may be worth checking. There is a vent hole at the rear of the shift tower. If this vent is blocked, believe it or not, the transmission can build up pressure insise and will cause leaks at the least point of resistance. Here is a pic of an early tower showing the vent hole.

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