Model A Town Car?

[ronn]

also one should realize that this is a 1930


I believe only one other 1930 exists. with that said, and what Brent has said, much of this car will never be considered an "authentic" town car. you could almost start from scratch and be better off. when you go to resell one day- the facts are already out there as to what this is. and therein is why nobody has tackled this to date.


BTW still for sale-

[barry022]

The slide show adds a lot of clarity to the condition of this Model A Town Car and explains the reason it remains for sale and will continue to do until the seller realizes the market value of the vehicle is far removed from his current asking price.

[Mister Moose]

Originally Posted by barry022

The slide show adds a lot of clarity to the condition of this Model A Town Car and explains the reason it remains for sale and will continue to do until the seller realizes the market value of the vehicle is far removed from his current asking price.

This. Many times it takes a while to find the right buyer, so lowering your price too soon is your loss. However as long as this has been on the market I think that time has passed. At this point legitimate buyers have been missed.

[ronn]

well, there is only one, so rarity is there- but this one is a horse of a different color.


with just a body- would this in the end be considered a repro or??????????


also, how would it affect the final selling price compared to a completely original model?


I had this discussion with a few guys on the AACA concerning early motorcycles. Apparently if you just have an engine only, some guys still consider that to be a pretty big deal and there is still considerable value.

[BRENT in 10-uh-C]

Originally Posted by Gene F

I somewhat agree with you. However, I must say that any time I hire work out I have a 50-50 chance of being dissatisfied.

You and I both know that more often than not you end up upspide-down on a restoration. Guess it's all how much we can stomach to a point...

Two thoughts in this...

I have never understood the mindset of some folks who feels like they must not have more invested in an old car than what they can get out of it. So many other recreational items in our lives find us spending more than our ROI however that does not stop folks from participating. Tally up the costs of taking up the sport of golfing, or buy a fishing boat and all the gear, -or even factor in the costs of buying camping gear and the costs associated with going camping. Rarely in any of those other recreational venues do you find someone saying they bought all the gear, used it for a couple of years and then sold all of it and recovered all my money and then some. If they did, then the likelihood is someone with dishonest with someone along the way.


Second, if you have a 50-50 chance of being dissatisfied with the work performed by someone else, -chances are you did not give them the correct amount of latitude (e.g.: time, budget, realistic expectation) to meet your expectations. In the case of this Town Car, I did not mention anything about outsourcing the restoration. Learn to do the majority of the work yourself, and only outsource minor tasks such as engine rebuilding or brightwork. Learn to do the woodwork, bodywork, upholstery, etc. in your own garage.




Jim, my late Father always told me 'A good deal is not a good deal if you cannot afford it!". In the case of buying one of TK's cars from his estate, a buyer must come up with a very large sum of money all at once whereas purchasing an unrestored car for much less than the total restoration cost, -and then amortizing the remaining restoration costs over 5+ years allows someone to be a Town Car owner than might otherwise not be able to afford one. The skillset and satisfaction that someone would obtain restoring that T/C vs. buying one already restored would be a much better investment for them IMO.

Originally Posted by ronn

well, there is only one, so rarity is there- but this one is a horse of a different color.

with just a body- would this in the end be considered a repro or??????????

also, how would it affect the final selling price compared to a completely original model?

I had this discussion with a few guys on the AACA concerning early motorcycles. Apparently if you just have an engine only, some guys still consider that to be a pretty big deal and there is still considerable value.

Ronn, it still would be considered the real-deal IMO. According to AACA, it would likely qualify as the real deal also. For some, it won't matter as far as price due to the rarity. To some, even if it brings 10% less because it is a clone, it still is not that big of a deal.

[todd3131]

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I like the story with this car and I think like Brent said this would be well worth the time and fun. buying someone else's finished may be smarter but I find restoring them and making it my own is much more rewarding.

[ronn]

go at it todd and keep us posted. these arent easy sellers btw.


the father did the antique car community a service by hoarding lots and lots of junk, but most of it is just that. hadnt he done that, all of this would have been crushed. I spoke with the Dad when he was alive. at the time of looking at this car, he had an L29 Cord and had just sold it for around 50k. a very complete and worthy car. there is also a Canadian Brooks steam car chassis there somewhere. The only one left in the world knowingly. but ultimately, most of the yard is full of junk.

[ronn]

Brent, thank you for your opinion. I accepted that the car might have 60% of value when finished and not as high as you state. In large part that is what made it an upside down project for me.
on the previous thread from a few years back, I ended up buying a 1931 pierce arrow for much much less. That to me is a "real" towncar and I virtually had to do nothing to it.


I guess I am a lazy man.

[todd3131]

I don't and won't have Facebook can someone provide me with there contact information?

we'll see what happens I have known people like this all my life and they tend to let them rust than take a dime less

[rotorwrench]

What I've always found amazing is how many folks back in the day purchased Ford model A cars when they had the money to purchase much more expensive cars. The model A design was like a baby Lincoln. They were smart looking designs and that's why so many of them are still around. There will always be someone who wants the rarer models like the Town Car, the Traveler's Wagon, and the Town Car Delivery. They are just novel enough for some collectors to spare no expense. Folks that have the where with all will look for the best example and the rough cars will be the last choice.

[ronn]

todd- your second sentence is correct- waving greenbacks doesnt mean a thing.


be ready to pay if you really want it.

[todd3131]

ronn,
I know of a 69 shelby convertible that is still sitting and I first saw the car in 74 guy has been offered way more than it is worth and still has it . I also know of a boss 429 but he knows it's value and will sell it at some point to pay for assisted living I imagine. I really need to think about this I really want one last project and what does that look like I have always wanted a 400 a but wouldn't be more inclined to look for a. complete car

[henry's 31]

It looks like a very challenging restoration.

[ronn]

Todd, the 400 and 180s are two that Ive been looking for. the prices are dropping and they are far more doable then this town car- not that anything cant be done.


the town car has been on my lottery ticket list for about 6-7 years, but wont happen
if I dont hit. We all draw the line at some point and I dont want to get bogged down in a "dream".


already done that a few times and it led me on a road to nowhere.......


reality is I have plenty of cars to enjoy. need to stop looking over the horizon.

[eystein]

"Currently restoring 3 of these" ??

Are they unrestored/hitherto unknown ones, or are they some of the ones that have been known for a long time being given a re-restoration ?

Originally Posted by BRENT in 10-uh-C

Gene, how would YOU establish a fair-market value for something like this? If you wanted one, how often do you find one that is for sale?



To me, it really is inconsequential whether this body is on the original frame or not. Equally, it does not matter the condition of the body wood or whether it has missing parts. My reasoning is, most of the chassis parts will be substituted with mint or NOS parts anyway when someone is restoring a vehicle of this caliber. The same with the body wood, ...it doesn't matter whether the infrastructure wood is sound or rotten as a car of this caliber is going to have new wood made. Terry Deters is currently restoring 3 of these, and friend of mine quoted him as saying that all three cars were slightly different. That is believable on a quasi hand-built body.

As far as missing stuff goes, nothing on that body is 'un-makeable' for someone who has the skillset and resources to make it happen. There are enough restored 140s around that dimensions for any missing piece(s) can be readily sourced so a person could fabricate them. Realistically, if a restorer gave $25k for that car, -then spent another $35k for parts & materials doing all the work themselves, they would not be upside down in this car. In comparison, look at a typical Fordor vs. this car and compare what a full restoration would entail. It would not be equal across the board, but very similar. The value at the end would definitely be skewed towards the town car.

The biggest issue I see with this particular car is most restorers do not have the capability (mindset, skillset, & resources) in their garage to do the restoration. IMHO, it really would/should not take a garage full of expensive tools to pull this off either.

[BRENT in 10-uh-C]

Originally Posted by eystein

"Currently restoring 3 of these" ??

Are they unrestored/hitherto unknown ones, or are they some of the ones that have been known for a long time being given a re-restoration ?

These are owned by well-known Model-A hobbyists and have been in their private collections.

[eystein]

Brent, perhaps I should rephrase the question. The last overview that I personnally have seen of how many town cars are in existence is that given in «The Restorer, March/April 1987!!!! Are each of these 3 all one of those described in the restorer article, or are they «new» cars discovered afterwards. Alternatively is there an updated overview like the one in the 1987 article ?

Originally Posted by BRENT in 10-uh-C

These are owned by well-known Model-A hobbyists and have been in their private collections.

[Bob Johnson]

One of the three Town Car that Terry is working on is mine. Since it was hidden in a barn in Denmark in 1987 it was not included in the 1987 article. Some of the owners of Model A Town Cars tend to not want to advertise their ownership. As a general rule I do not share information about other Town Cars unless I have permission from the owners. I know of the whereabouts of most of the know Model A Town Cars. My count is around 25. However a few of those did not start out as Town Cars. Most of the "reproductions" are fairly easily identified by a trained eye. However I know of one that would fool almost everyone.



There has been many changes in ownership since the 1987 article. There is a chance that there may be an update article sometime soon (no promises).


Bob Johnson

[eystein]

Bob, That’s interesting to hear. Hopefully with two other TC’s in the shop, he can make you an exact replica of the partition wall that you are missing.

Yesterday, I was counting over the 1987 article, excluding the one that they described as being crafted from a town sedan and the Aalholm one which obviously is a fake. Adding yours and the one subject of this thread I came to 25. Comparing to your figure, that would suggest that only your car and the one in this thread have surfaced since 1987. Can you confirm?

I do believe I saw that there was one referred to as «the pelican» because it had been modified with a very long visor. I could not readily identify any of the cars in the 1987 article as being that car. So perhaps that means there is one more ?

Originally Posted by Bob Johnson

One of the three Town Car that Terry is working on is mine. Since it was hidden in a barn in Denmark in 1987 it was not included in the 1987 article. Some of the owners of Model A Town Cars tend to not want to advertise their ownership. As a general rule I do not share information about other Town Cars unless I have permission from the owners. I know of the whereabouts of most of the know Model A Town Cars. My count is around 25. However a few of those did not start out as Town Cars. Most of the "reproductions" are fairly easily identified by a trained eye. However I know of one that would fool almost everyone.



There has been many changes in ownership since the 1987 article. There is a chance that there may be an update article sometime soon (no promises).


Bob Johnson

[Dick Carne]

Hi Ronn -