Electrolysis solution?

[36tudordeluxe]

Would running a #10 ground wire from radiator to frame help prevent electrolysis?

[J Franklin]

Maybe, you can also buy sacrificial anodes to stop destruction.

[petehoovie]

Here's a good read on Electrolysis > http://sancarlosradiator.com/electrolysis.htm

and > http://www.voltage-drop.com/

[36tudordeluxe]

Pete read the articles and did not know about the "flushing machine" as described, is this a machine that most radiator shops would have; if so on my way way over to nearest radiator shop.
I see no mention of "grounding" as a solution to my problem and will abandon that idea.

[petehoovie]

Good read on 'Flushing' > http://www.sancarlosradiator.com/VoltageDrop/flush.htm

[rotorwrench]

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At any given time, greater San Antonio TX might have one radiator shop that can repair a copper/brass radiator or do a recore job. I've seen 5 go away in the last twenty years and even then there was no more than one operating at any given time. Now days, a radiator shop is a store that sells aftermarket plastic/aluminum radiators for modern makes & models.

[Crankster]

Electrolysis, or stray voltage? Two different issues. Not trying to be pedantic but words mean things. Dissimilar metals in the presence of an electrolyte produce a weak current, this is to be avoided but bonding jumpers won't help here. Stray voltage is an interesting issue and can cause strange problems. Even static buildup can cause difficult problems to diagnose and result in expensive repairs.

[Brian]

Given the price of heads etc, I think anything we can do is cheap insurance...I personally run a 50% antifreeze mix, sacrificial anodes, numerous earth straps, even one of those rubber earth straps onto the ground to prevent static build up.

[36tudordeluxe]

Does the anode go in the radiator?

[Brian]

Easiest way is to fit zinc pencils into 3/8 NPT plugs, [they'll look like temp gauge sender units], and screw them in the heads opposite the temp senders

[37don]

Google BoatZinks.com and they will have what you need. I have a zink in each head. They make a brass plug that will screw into your head and is threaded for thier zink. They come in several configurations.
Regards, Don

[Mike51Merc]

Your radiator is already grounded by being bolted to the frame. The electrolysis being discussed is an electro-chemical reaction and not related to the electrical circuitry of the car.

[36tudordeluxe]

Found an anode that screws into the the bottom of radiator where drains go, ordered two.
Thanks for the help guys.

[36tudordeluxe]

Originally Posted by 37don

Google BoatZinks.com and they will have what you need. I have a zink in each head. They make a brass plug that will screw into your head and is threaded for thier zink. They come in several configurations.
Regards, Don

Went there and says "domain for sale?"

[TJ]

Try a radiator cap called a "Rad Cap". It comes with the sacrificial anode attached.

[36tudordeluxe]

Originally Posted by TJ

Try a radiator cap called a "Rad Cap". It comes with the sacrificial anode attached.

Tried one but wouldn't fit my '36 radiator.

[AnthonyG]

Previous to this thread Id seen a few talking about the galvanic corrosion but didn't realize it was this prevalent? Do most Flatty's experience this? Mine was built 5 yr's ago, I have a Brass-works radiator solid copper and brass. aluminum heads, never really thought much about it. From reading things suggested it sounds like the electrolytic corrosion hit's the least noble metal so the sacrificial anode's the weakest link? Thinking as the radiator is brass / copper it's pretty tough so the aluminum heads are the weak point needing protection. I'm deducing the anode which fit in the threaded hole for temp sensors would be the best bet?

[mfirth]

Any pictures of this stuff ? Thanks guys. And, how do aluminum radiators figure into all this? mike

[36tudordeluxe]

Originally Posted by mfirth

Any pictures of this stuff ? Thanks guys. And, how do aluminum radiators figure into all this? mike

Go to Flex-a-lite 32060

[40cpe]

Originally Posted by 36tudordeluxe

Go to Flex-a-lite 32060

This company has a good price on them.


https://www.rotometals.com/flex-a-li...4-npt-x-1-3-4/

[petehoovie]

Originally Posted by mfirth

Any pictures of this stuff ? Thanks guys. And, how do aluminum radiators figure into all this? mike

Aluminum heads and radiators are most susceptible to be eaten away by electrolysis....

[Crankster]

Because ... (surprise!) dissimilar metals - in this case, steel or brass, copper, aluminum in the presence of an electrolyte - water, engine coolant, etc, makes a weak electrical current. A battery. This is exactly how a battery works, in fact. Ideally two elements from the far end of the reactance scale - Carbon and Zinc for example, were used for a long time.

[4dFord/SC]

Here's another alternative: http://www.no-rosion.com/norosioncoolant.htm

[petehoovie]

Originally Posted by 4dFord/SC

Here's another alternative: http://www.no-rosion.com/norosioncoolant.htm

Yeah, 4dFord, really good stuff but kind of spendy. It's what I use in my '34 to protect my aluminum heads....

[36tudordeluxe]

Originally Posted by 4dFord/SC

Here's another alternative: http://www.no-rosion.com/norosioncoolant.htm

Word of caution on NO-ROSION. I used this product with straight water and a water wetter "Purple Ice" and this was the result.

[john in illinois]

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I was using NO ROSION with antifreeze and that picture in another post scared me. Drained it out. I think I will change anti freeze more often and maybe an anode.

John

[john in illinois]

How do modern cars with aluminum heads and iron blocks deal with corrosion?

John

[4dFord/SC]

The more traditional alternative: https://smile.amazon.com/gp/product/...?ie=UTF8&psc=1

[petehoovie]

Originally Posted by 36tudordeluxe

Word of caution on NO-ROSION. I used this product with straight water and a water wetter "Purple Ice" and this was the result.

WOW! Never saw anything like that when I removed my heads. My block was a clean as a whistle. You must have had something else going on there to form all of that crud....

BTW - I'm using reverse-osmosis drinking water with no other additives other than the No- Rosion in my cooling system....

[36tudordeluxe]

Originally Posted by petehoovie

WOW! Never saw anything like that when I removed my heads. My block was a clean as a whistle. You must have had something else going on there to form all of that crud....

BTW - I'm using reverse-osmosis drinking water with no other additives other than the No- Rosion in my cooling system....

I don't believe Purple Ice and NO-ROSION are compatible.

[19Fordy]

This stuff works.
http://www.no-rosion.com/norosioncoolant.htm

[Bruce_MO]

Research No-Rosion.com for what might be the easiest thing to do. I use it in a few of my cars. Haven't had the heads off of the one with aluminum heads to see if it works. But I've had no issues in 15 years.

[19Fordy]

Here's a new idea. Cut a piece of clear hose, slide 2 anodes inside, close both ends with a tie wrap, attach it to bottom of radiator cap with copper wire and insert in radiator top tank. Clear hose with anodes lays on top of radiator tubes. I installed one anode made of zinc and another made of magnesium to see which corrodes faster. I believe it will be the magnesium anode after referring to the Electrolysis Chart. Also read that magnesium anodes work better in fresh water and zinc works better in salt water. Will be interesting to see what happens. Radiator is 18 year old Walker. Cap is 10 lb. Walker. Heads were installed in 1999 and never taken off since. (Glad I used head bolts, not studs.)

[40cpe]

From what I have read, the anode must be electrically connected to the metal it is to protect. Maybe someone can verify or dispute?

[tubman]

I have used "No-Rosion" for the last 10 years and have never had a problem with any vehicle it was in. I certainly never saw it do what was shown in a previous post. I believe "36tudordeluxe" might be right that there is a compatibility problem with "Purple Ice".

[19Fordy]

40cpe: I thought that the liquid in the radiator acted as the electrolyte solution between the anode (zinc or magnesium) and the aluminum heads (cathode).

[40cpe]

Originally Posted by 19Fordy

40cpe: I thought that the liquid in the radiator acted as the electrolyte solution between the anode (zinc or magnesium) and the aluminum heads (cathode).

I'm certainly no authority, but I Googled it to satisfy my curiosity and found a couple of references to being electrically attached to the metal. If you don't find any info I'll send you some links.

[Mike51Merc]

If you buy a modern anti-freeze like Pentofrost (the purple/lavender stuff in a lot of German cars) it is specifically formulated to not cause corrosion, it lasts years and years, and it won't kill your dog.

[petehoovie]

Originally Posted by Mike51Merc

If you buy a modern anti-freeze like Pentofrost (the purple/lavender stuff in a lot of German cars) it is specifically formulated to not cause corrosion, it lasts years and years, and it won't kill your dog.

I went to the 'Pentofrost' website (http://www.pentosin.net/f_antifreeze.asp) and was not able to find a list of "Where To Buy" locations???

[deuce lover]

Originally Posted by petehoovie

I went to the 'Pentofrost' website (http://www.pentosin.net/f_antifreeze.asp) and was not able to find a list of "Where To Buy" locations???

I just Googled "Pentofrost".Autozone carries it.

https://www.google.fr/url?sa=t&rct=j...oxP1obW28DKurK

[AnthonyG]

The sacrificial metal, zinc, mag, needs to be connected to metal that's connected to what your trying to save. Before I got tired of putting $ into a hole in the water & had a boat I used sacrificial anodes on the out boards and instructions were to connect to metal on motors.

[AnthonyG]

I don't think it's that big a problem if you change your anti-freeze annually. I always thought the rust inhibitors in the antifreeze became inert and stopped working so I change mine every year. In doing some reading since I've been keeping up with this thread I believe that keeps the galvanic corrosion under control too. I'm thinking this is what protects newer engines with multiple alloys from the eng. protected in contact with coolant protected if you change the coolant per the intervals in the manuals.

[19Fordy]

Here's an informative discussion on the effectiveness of radiator cap anodes. Seems like they might be a waste of money if your antifreeze is working properly.
http://www.viperclub.org/vca/threads...needed.576892/

But, here's another "test situation" using a magnesium anode immersed in USED engine coolant showing that the magnesium anode does protect the internal aluminum engine parts.

Truth seems to be that, if your antifreeze is "fresh" and changed regularly the additives in the antifreeze will prevent the corrosion of aluminum engine parts. The more the additives become depleted, the more destructive corrosion of the aluminum parts increases as the liquid in the radiator becomes "weaker".

[JSeery]

Problem with all of this is how the cars/trucks are driven. There is a big difference between vehicles that are driven daily and over some distance vs one that spends most of it's time sitting and when it is driven it is for short distances.

[19Fordy]

Good point.

[FlatheadTed]

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If you don't live in a cold climate what's the advantage of anty freeze , .I ran a bunch of rental cars and after having a heater core corrode through (on the shop hack )I just used straight water ,When I restored my first FH car in the 80 s we welded up the alunmium heads after a few years we were on a run and engine started to run rough we found that the weld had corroded away this was due to the anty freeze most likely being past its use by date .after doing this twice I went to iron heads .Yes the antifreeze has additive's in it like for the ,pump lube ,water wetter ,anty rust but I don't think I would run it ,in a flathead .if you do at least change it every year its very corrosive , Its a big thing here to use soluble oil (lath cutting oil )in Model As ,as a lube and rust preventative ,a cup full of that will do the job .Ted

[19Fordy]

Would like to hear more about pro's and cons of using soluble oil as mentioned above.

Found some good info why using soluble oil is a bad idea.
https://www.hcvc.com.au/forum/oldjun...l-in-radiators

[Brian]

Soluble oil rots the rubber radiator hoses over time...

[petehoovie]

Soluble oil retards heat transfer. I suspect that the oil film it will leave on the metal will hamper
heat transfer so if you have any tendency to overheat this may make it worse....

[FlatheadTed]

I agree with the previous posts it will affect heat transfer and hoses ,but could take a while , does it have any more negatives than anty freeze has .

[George/Maine]

Years ago in the 30s and 40s they used Alcohol and some were drinking it.
I think that is fake news, but if you are using a battery tender this could cause electrolysis

[36tudordeluxe]

Received the screw in anodes, didn't like them as had to shorten them and didn't feel right when screwed into the bottom of radiator.
Am going with the PENTOFROST coolant and the LUCAS PURPLE ICE water wetter.

[Karl]

Originally Posted by FlatheadTed

If you don't live in a cold climate what's the advantage of anty freeze , .I ran a bunch of rental cars and after having a heater core corrode through (on the shop hack )I just used straight water ,When I restored my first FH car in the 80 s we welded up the alunmium heads after a few years we were on a run and engine started to run rough we found that the weld had corroded away this was due to the anty freeze most likely being past its use by date .after doing this twice I went to iron heads .Yes the antifreeze has additive's in it like for the ,pump lube ,water wetter ,anty rust but I don't think I would run it ,in a flathead .if you do at least change it every year its very corrosive , Its a big thing here to use soluble oil (lath cutting oil )in Model As ,as a lube and rust preventative ,a cup full of that will do the job .Ted

Ted Penrite market a radiator additive that is purely anticorrosive and not antifreeze - I tend to run that because you are right we don't need antifreeze in most of this country -Karl

[1ton]

Originally Posted by 4dFord/SC

Here's another alternative: http://www.no-rosion.com/norosioncoolant.htm

This talks about the ph balance of the coolant. I've heard about this over the years. We've talked about the new orange coolant that GM was using. Is it because of the more prevalent use of aluminum heads and radiators. I firmly believe that ph balance is very important with aluminum heads.

[Rodrelic]

Research on my 270 formula Cummins showed 2 solutions to prevent cylinder holes due to activity in the water jacket. The 855 c.i. motor would fail due to electrolysis eating holes in the liners about 3/8" thick.
There was a oil filter looking deal to be added in the heater line that dispensed a chemical, change a few times a year.
Since the truck was seasonal & it sat for months, I got a chemical additive direct treatment as well as distilled water for antifreeze mix. Did not help to have 4 massive 6v batteries that were connected to a maintainer all winter. Who woulda thought. I don't miss that thing

[FlatheadTed]

Right Karl ,thanks ,For what its worth I stored my 35 for about 8 years but with no water in it just started it dry every 3 months and ran it for about 7 Min ,did a Vinger flush on the Radiator on road time .Goes good no ill affects ,Ted

Originally Posted by Karl

Ted Penrite market a radiator additive that is purely anticorrosive and not antifreeze - I tend to run that because you are right we don't need antifreeze in most of this country -Karl

[36tudordeluxe]

After removing stud that was holding header on am of the opinion that the stud did not hit the water jacket; the stud measures an 1 1/2" in length and was only screwed into the block about 3/4", shows no indication of rust to the stud or discoloration to the gasket.
Could there be a crack in the deck running to an exhaust valve that's causing the leak? Drove it infrequently for a couple of years with no problem with overheating or loosing a noticeable amount of coolant. However, had noticed that the exhaust tip on the affected side and water splatter on garage floor leaving a slight rust stain.
Would Barr's Stop Leak be appropriate in this instance.

[petehoovie]

Have you pressurized your cooling system? Recently?

[36tudordeluxe]

Pete, not sure what you mean by "pressurize" the cooling system, you mean bring it up to operating temp.?
Hear about a product called IRON-TITE, wonder if that would help.

[petehoovie]

Originally Posted by 36tudordeluxe

Pete, not sure what you mean by "pressurize" the cooling system, you mean bring it up to operating temp.?
Hear about a product called IRON-TITE, wonder if that would help.

Is your coolant under pressure? That is, are you using pressure type radiator cap? Originally, your cars cooling system was non-pressurized. If you have recently pressurized your system, I'm thinking your leakage problems have been exacerbated by doing so....

[36tudordeluxe]

Not running a pressure cap, still have the stock cap.