Body to frame welting...

[Steve Plucker]

Does anyone know the original part number for the Body to Frame Welting?

Thanks.

Pluck

[Marco Tahtaras]

16540
16541
16542
16543

16540-A is for 28-29 front fenders. 16540-B is longer as it extends to the front tip of the fender @ the apron. 16541 was introduced with the new running board aprons in mid '28. I think that answers all the questions that would have arose when looking them up.

[Gary Karr]

Marco, do you have details of these pieces? Also, what is the thickness?

[d.j. moordigian]

Thanks Steve,...I was a-little-lost....

Wasn't there 2 of them on each side, that overlapped, maybe on the 28's?

[Charles Reese]

I don't recall my source (maybe Doc K), I show the frame webbing to be "1-3/4" wide and quite thin (3/64” to 1/16”thick)" and "extended from front edge of fender to the rear end of the running board shield".

Photo shows a sample of my original welting found under my Jan 28 side splash apron = 2” wide x 1/16” thick

[Marco Tahtaras]

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Originally Posted by Charles Reese

I don't recall my source (maybe Doc K), I show the frame webbing to be "1-3/4" wide and quite thin (3/64” to 1/16”thick)" and "extended from front edge of fender to the rear end of the running board shield".

Photo shows a sample of my original welting found under my Jan 28 side splash apron = 2” wide x 1/16” thick

That is quite unusual as I've never seen original webbing wider than 1-3/4" and 1/16" sounds a bit thick but could be right.

Originally Posted by Gary Karr

Marco, do you have details of these pieces? Also, what is the thickness?

I thought you had originals. Although I posted that info years ago I can't recall specifically and it appears all my samples are still at the old house. The one thing I can say is that both the front fender to frame anti-squeak and running board apron to frame anti-squeak are the same thickness as the original floor board anti-squeak. I would bet you have samples of that.

[Charles Reese]

remeasured with better calipers .. this is the 'smushed' part (i.e., under apron/fender .... the unsmushed is thicker/covered with mud/oil

[Gary Karr]

Thanks Marco. I do have a set of 16540-A front fender webbing pieces. They are definately 1-3/4" wide and extend from the front of the frame rail to 3" beyond the front body mount bolt. I don't have the 16540-B pieces though and am wondering what they are like for the early-style running board shields since the shields don't lay on the frame rail all the way back to the rear fender.

[Marco Tahtaras]

Gary,

As I said in my post, there was no rear section until the aprons were changed in mid '28. My best guess is that when they transitioned to the later configuration they shortened the length of A-16540. And of course the "A" suffix wasn't used until the "B" version was introduced for the 1930 models.

The one thing that still confuses me is just why they chose to segment the anti-squeak at all. I've not yet found the logic in it.

[d.j. moordigian]

Please,....I'm not understanding which parts(welt/webbing/anti-squeak) were placed
on the cars, from start of production too when they used one piece from the front
frame horn to just past the end of the shield.

I just can't "see it", and weren't there two at one time?

Thanks, Dudley

[Jim Mason]

I've never thought about it. If one piece of the webbing was tacked (stuck) to the fender and the other to the apron...?? the lengths would be easily handled, they would stay where they belonged...hmmm..

[Marco Tahtaras]

Originally Posted by d.j. moordigian

Please,....I'm not understanding which parts(welt/webbing/anti-squeak) were placed on the cars, from start of production too when they used one piece from the front frame horn to just past the end of the shield.

I just can't "see it", and weren't there two at one time?

Thanks, Dudley

They were never one piece except early 1928 which was short. The early running board aprons did not overlap the frame rail beyond the cowl so the rest wasn't needed. When they redesigned the aprons to overlap the frame they added a second section from there back.

It's important to note for those unfamiliar that there was also a small piece on each bracket that would otherwise make contact with the bottom of the fender and/or apron.

Originally Posted by Jim Mason

I've never thought about it. If one piece of the webbing was tacked (stuck) to the fender and the other to the apron...?? the lengths would be easily handled, they would stay where they belonged...hmmm..

No, the split did not align with any seam. Also, the anti-squeak webbing was not "stuck" to the fender and apron although they usually do after decades of being on a car.

All years the front fender, running board, and running board shield were all assembled together on a padded bench. As the chassis approached the station on the assembly line where the fender and running board assembly was to be installed, the webbing was laid down on the frame rail.

[d.j. moordigian]

I get it now......

Thank you.

[Charles Reese]

Originally Posted by Marco Tahtaras

They were never one piece except early 1928 which was short. The early running board aprons did not overlap the frame rail beyond the cowl so the rest wasn't needed.

I wish I had paid more attention to detail during disassembly as I ran my material much further back. I realize the material was/is very thin, but is it possible that this was one factor that gave me fits when trying to align my doors to my cab? I now have webbing material between the frame and all of my body block rubber pads. Hate to think I need (i.e., authenticity) to remove the webbing from the cowl back.

Originally Posted by Marco Tahtaras

When they redesigned the aprons to overlap the frame they added a second section from there back.

Makes sense when presented in this context.

Originally Posted by Marco Tahtaras

It's important to note for those unfamiliar that there was also a small piece on each bracket that would otherwise make contact with the bottom of the fender and/or apron.

Did that!

Originally Posted by Marco Tahtaras

All years the front fender, running board, and running board shield were all assembled together on a padded bench. As the chassis approached the station on the assembly line where the fender and running board assembly was to be installed, the webbing was laid down on the frame rail.

As a matter of curiosity, I wonder if the fender bracket was pre installed to the fender and then bolted to the frame as part of this completed assembly.

I, for one, really enjoy hearing of the nuances of the assembly process!!

[Jim Mason]

I have the assembly procedure as documented by 'American machinist magazine' on my site. check around step 49 and the photos.

[Gary Karr]

Originally Posted by Marco Tahtaras

Gary,

As I said in my post, there was no rear section until the aprons were changed in mid '28. My best guess is that when they transitioned to the later configuration they shortened the length of A-16540. And of course the "A" suffix wasn't used until the "B" version was introduced for the 1930 models.

The one thing that still confuses me is just why they chose to segment the anti-squeak at all. I've not yet found the logic in it.

This all makes sense now as I look at the allignment of the running board shields to the frame rail on E-28's. They are attached to the wood body blocks plus an aditional block that attaches to the sub frame of the body aand the shield.

[d.j. moordigian]

Originally Posted by Charles Reese

As a matter of curiosity, I wonder if the fender bracket was pre installed to the fender and then bolted to the frame as part of this completed assembly.

I, for one, really enjoy hearing of the nuances of the assembly process!!

Charles, the fender brace was installed on the frame pryer. Look at
1997 JS page 2-11...

[swo4rd]

Researching this detail for my current restoration, and an article for the 180A news letter, I have a curious observation...is the fellow in the picture from Marco's website, applying anti squeak welting Part A16540 to the frame, which may still have tacky paint on it? I have shards of both A16540 and !16541 as well as pictures after I raised the body and will get those on line Sunday night after I get back to the shop...it is too durned hot here in central VA to go out there now.

[Charles Reese]

Originally Posted by d.j. moordigian

Charles, the fender brace was installed on the frame pryer. Look at 1997 JS page 2-11...

i kinda figured as much ... clearly, those guys were a lot better 'shots' than i was when assembling ... working alone makes things more challenging

[Jim Mason]

Originally Posted by swo4rd

is the fellow in the picture from Marco's website, applying anti squeak welting Part A16540 to the frame, which may still have tacky paint on it?

I believe that photo is much earlier in the process. Here's one from after Marco's photo..still no sign of welting....