The Ford Barn

CatMan1 · 08-31-2021, 08:00 AM

I've been doing some research on here, but thought I'd ask..... Is there a type of shim that would be used in the front axle where the king pin goes? I have a some light 'play' and looseness there. Or do I just have to look for another axle someday? Are there oversized king pins?

chrs1961815 · 08-31-2021, 08:20 AM

Inside the axle? See this thread:
https://www.fordbarn.com/forum/showt...=King+pin+hole

BRENT in 10-uh-C · 08-31-2021, 08:20 AM

Does installing and tightening the locking pin remove all of the movement??

1931 flamingo · 08-31-2021, 08:28 AM

Are there any shims under the king pin bearings??
Paul in CT

Terry, NJ · 08-31-2021, 08:31 AM

Yes, there are shims that go under the spindle. They're available from the vendors. They come with the new king pins. When the kingpins get loose (death wobble) the bushings in the spindle get replaced. There are two to a side, upper and lower. The king pins are .812-.813 and after the new bushings are pushed into place, they must be reamed or honed to a close fit. I prefer an .812 adjustable reamer. Don't try to get it all out in one pass. These reamers are NOT meant to take a heavy cut. Put the reamer with the square end into a vise and rotate the spindle down to it.
Terry

CatMan1 · 08-31-2021, 09:04 AM

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I wish I could post pictures and videos. Anyway..... When we jacked the car up and checked it we had movement in all four directions. I found that the nut that (passenger side wheel) held the tie rod to the spindle was loose and that took up some slack after being tightened up. The wheel bearing was tight....maybe too tight. so, that left king pin looseness. Pulling up and down on the spindle produced a bit of a wiggle. Now I have it all apart and the king pin just slips out without and force or tools. Is it supposed to come out that easy? Just the king pin by itself in the axle hole will wiggle a bit. Is that normal? So, that brings me back to my original question, are there thin shims that can go in the axle hole around the king pin to take up that slack? There was also no grease present when we took the king pin out. I'm assuming the original owner didn't do any maintenance after the full restoration.....?

Big hammer · 08-31-2021, 10:00 AM

Post #3 ! Install the locking pin, tighten the nut, tap the pin opposite side of the nut, retighten the nut, should remove movement of the king pin.

Patrick L. · 08-31-2021, 11:52 AM

How much play is in the king pins ? This has been addressed.

But, since you took it apart, might as well have new pins and bushings installed.

CatMan1 · 08-31-2021, 12:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Patrick L.

How much play is in the king pins ? This has been addressed.

But, since you took it apart, might as well have new pins and bushings installed.

I don't really have a good way to measure it. Perhaps.....the thickness of aluminum foil, if I was to guess. You don't need any tools, just pull it out.

Patrick L. · 08-31-2021, 12:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CatMan1

I don't really have a good way to measure it. Perhaps.....the thickness of aluminum foil, if I was to guess. You don't need any tools, just pull it out.

Are talking bearing shims or pin bushings. The bushing tolerance has been previously addressed. As for the bearing shims, most stopped worrying about that decades ago. I still like to use them, but, they are not going to cause a wobble issue.

CatMan1 · 08-31-2021, 01:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Patrick L.

Are talking bearing shims or pin bushings. The bushing tolerance has been previously addressed. As for the bearing shims, most stopped worrying about that decades ago. I still like to use them, but, they are not going to cause a wobble issue.

I really wish I could post a picture.

I have some extra clearance or wiggle were the king pin drops into the axle. Just that, no spindle added. Maybe they don't fit that snug? I don't know. Just picture a bare, no parts added, fresh axle and you drop the king pin or spindle bolt in. It wiggles. Bad or good?

Patrick L. · 08-31-2021, 04:13 PM

It shouldn't wiggle.

CatMan1 · 08-31-2021, 04:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Patrick L.

It shouldn't wiggle.

That's what I figured.

Pete · 08-31-2021, 05:17 PM

Those axle holes can be sleeved back to standard. The king pin should be a hard hand push or light tap fit.

Chuck Sea/Tac · 08-31-2021, 07:30 PM

I had bad wear in the axle as well, and I ended up replacing the axle. I’ve heard pro and cons on repairing the axle kink pin hole.

Terry, NJ · 09-01-2021, 03:59 PM

There should not be any slop, play, looseness in the king pins! Period! It should be a "tap Fit" into the bushings. In other words, you should have to very lightly tap the king pin into place. They should not fall into the bushings. Can you see any scrapes or scoring on them? They are suppose to measure 13/16ths or .812 -.813 dia. If they are scored up or under size, replace them. Then check the fit again . Usually the bushings go first and you'll have to replace both.
Good Luck!
Terry

Patrick L. · 09-02-2021, 06:14 AM

I think we're talking about 3 different issues.

Pin into axle
pin to bushing
thrust bearing

CatMan1 · 09-02-2021, 07:16 AM

If I could only post pictures......How do I do that? It won't let me.

john in illinois · 09-02-2021, 04:49 PM

Pictures to big. Find a way to resize them smaller. There are many apps with a search.

John

08-31-2021, 08:00 AM	#1
CatMan1 Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2021 Location: Pella, IA Posts: 336	Front Axle Shims I've been doing some research on here, but thought I'd ask..... Is there a type of shim that would be used in the front axle where the king pin goes? I have a some light 'play' and looseness there. Or do I just have to look for another axle someday? Are there oversized king pins?

08-31-2021, 08:20 AM	#2
chrs1961815 Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2018 Location: Spring Grove, Illinois Posts: 1,371	Re: Front Axle Shims Inside the axle? See this thread: https://www.fordbarn.com/forum/showt...=King+pin+hole __________________ "The more things change, the more they stay the same."

08-31-2021, 08:28 AM	#4
1931 flamingo Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: new britain,ct 06052 Posts: 9,390	Re: Front Axle Shims Are there any shims under the king pin bearings?? Paul in CT

08-31-2021, 08:31 AM	#5
Terry, NJ Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Bucks Co, Pa Posts: 3,740	Re: Front Axle Shims Yes, there are shims that go under the spindle. They're available from the vendors. They come with the new king pins. When the kingpins get loose (death wobble) the bushings in the spindle get replaced. There are two to a side, upper and lower. The king pins are .812-.813 and after the new bushings are pushed into place, they must be reamed or honed to a close fit. I prefer an .812 adjustable reamer. Don't try to get it all out in one pass. These reamers are NOT meant to take a heavy cut. Put the reamer with the square end into a vise and rotate the spindle down to it. Terry

08-31-2021, 09:04 AM	#6
CatMan1 Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2021 Location: Pella, IA Posts: 336	Re: Front Axle Shims Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements) I wish I could post pictures and videos. Anyway..... When we jacked the car up and checked it we had movement in all four directions. I found that the nut that (passenger side wheel) held the tie rod to the spindle was loose and that took up some slack after being tightened up. The wheel bearing was tight....maybe too tight. so, that left king pin looseness. Pulling up and down on the spindle produced a bit of a wiggle. Now I have it all apart and the king pin just slips out without and force or tools. Is it supposed to come out that easy? Just the king pin by itself in the axle hole will wiggle a bit. Is that normal? So, that brings me back to my original question, are there thin shims that can go in the axle hole around the king pin to take up that slack? There was also no grease present when we took the king pin out. I'm assuming the original owner didn't do any maintenance after the full restoration.....?

08-31-2021, 08:20 AM	#3
BRENT in 10-uh-C Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Eastern Tennessee Posts: 11,508	Re: Front Axle Shims Does installing and tightening the locking pin remove all of the movement?? __________________ . BRENT in 10-uh-C . www.model-a-ford.com ...(...Finally Updated!! ) .

08-31-2021, 10:00 AM	#7
Big hammer Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2014 Location: Land of Lincoln Posts: 3,127	Re: Front Axle Shims Post #3 ! Install the locking pin, tighten the nut, tap the pin opposite side of the nut, retighten the nut, should remove movement of the king pin. __________________ Don't force it with a little hammer tap, tap, tap get a bigger hammer tap done

08-31-2021, 11:52 AM	#8
Patrick L. Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Largo Florida Posts: 7,225	Re: Front Axle Shims How much play is in the king pins ? This has been addressed. But, since you took it apart, might as well have new pins and bushings installed.

08-31-2021, 04:13 PM	#12
Patrick L. Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Largo Florida Posts: 7,225	Re: Front Axle Shims It shouldn't wiggle.

08-31-2021, 05:17 PM	#14
Pete Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Wa. Posts: 5,407	Re: Front Axle Shims Those axle holes can be sleeved back to standard. The king pin should be a hard hand push or light tap fit.

08-31-2021, 07:30 PM	#15
Chuck Sea/Tac Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Between Seattle & Tacoma Posts: 2,354	Re: Front Axle Shims I had bad wear in the axle as well, and I ended up replacing the axle. I’ve heard pro and cons on repairing the axle kink pin hole.

09-01-2021, 03:59 PM	#16
Terry, NJ Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Bucks Co, Pa Posts: 3,740	Re: Front Axle Shims There should not be any slop, play, looseness in the king pins! Period! It should be a "tap Fit" into the bushings. In other words, you should have to very lightly tap the king pin into place. They should not fall into the bushings. Can you see any scrapes or scoring on them? They are suppose to measure 13/16ths or .812 -.813 dia. If they are scored up or under size, replace them. Then check the fit again . Usually the bushings go first and you'll have to replace both. Good Luck! Terry

09-02-2021, 06:14 AM	#17
Patrick L. Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Largo Florida Posts: 7,225	Re: Front Axle Shims I think we're talking about 3 different issues. Pin into axle pin to bushing thrust bearing

09-02-2021, 07:16 AM	#18
CatMan1 Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2021 Location: Pella, IA Posts: 336	Re: Front Axle Shims If I could only post pictures......How do I do that? It won't let me.

09-02-2021, 04:49 PM	#19
john in illinois Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Illinois Posts: 2,183	Re: Front Axle Shims Pictures to big. Find a way to resize them smaller. There are many apps with a search. John __________________ Welcome each day