The Ford Barn

hb32 · 11-21-2018, 08:00 PM

I am somewhat versed in wiring but could use some pictorial help. Searching the forums but no luck yet. Installed a flathead in my 32 pickup and when I ordered the harness from Tyree Harris, I got one for a 4 cylinder as that was the plan. I am staying 6 volt and was planning on positive ground as well. I want to install a starter solenoid as but see that there are 2 options, grounded base and one that isn’t. So many questions, which solenoid, how do I connect wiring ? Also keeping the pull start cable that the 4 cylinder had and have sourced a pull switch. Thanks

FireEngineMike · 11-21-2018, 08:16 PM

Call Tyree. He will be able to help you.

Pat/Ohio · 11-21-2018, 08:33 PM

Keeping the Model B type pull start cable might be a little tricky in that the starter on the 4 cylinder was mounted on the driver's side of the motor and the V8 starter is mounted on the passenger side. The Model B cable was connected to the switch mounted on top of the starter.

The 4 cylinder starter switch was a "pull type" switch and the V-8 switch is a "push" type switch. It's probably been done...just haven't seen one.

Good luck,
Pat

Bob C · 11-21-2018, 08:57 PM

Ford used the isolated ground, the start button supplied the ground.
I don't think they used a solenoid until 1937.

JSeery · 11-21-2018, 09:10 PM

Any reason you are going about this in this manner? Seems to be making it more difficult than it needs to be.

hb32 · 11-21-2018, 09:24 PM

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Thanks for the replies. Regarding the starter switch, Cole Hersee p/n 9109 is a pull switch which I will mount remotely and run power through it to the starter. I was using the solenoid for an upgrade from the pre 38 system.

JSeery · 11-21-2018, 09:37 PM

Is this the switch you are looking at? If so, it is rated at 10A on 12v, that is no where near the amperage required if directly connected to the starter. Starters can pull over a hundred amps. It requires a solenoid specifically designed for starter amperage. Are you using this switch to energize a starter solenoid located somewhere else? That would work. If using an early v8 dash mounded starter solenoid all that the switch would have to do is provide a ground.

SKU: 9109
NORMALLY OFF 10A@12VDC 2 SCREWS W/LOCKWASHER USE WITH CABLE OR LEVER MOUNT

40cpe · 11-21-2018, 09:41 PM

but it would supply power to operate a solenoid if that is what he meant?

hb32 · 11-21-2018, 09:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JSeery

Is this the switch you are looking at? If so, it is rated at 10A on 12v, that is no where near the amperage required. Starters can pull up into the hundreds of amps. It requires a solenoid specifically designed for starter amperage.

SKU: 9109
NORMALLY OFF 10A@12VDC 2 SCREWS W/LOCKWASHER USE WITH CABLE OR LEVER MOUNT

Yes it is and hence one of the thoughts on using a solenoid

JSeery · 11-21-2018, 09:57 PM

I edited my post in #7. If this switch is used to provide a ground to a dash mounted flathead v8 style starter solenoid, it would work fine.

hb32 · 11-21-2018, 10:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JSeery

I edited my post in #7. If this switch is used to provide a ground to a dash mounted flathead v8 style starter solenoid, it would work fine.

Thanks and appreciate the input and expertise you provide. Just researching more and determined that I need a 6 volt solenoid to handle the current Looks like a Cole Hersee 24097 May be the one I need.

JSeery · 11-22-2018, 08:19 PM

That solenoid will work, but will require somewhat screwy wiring. A better option IMO would be an original Ford v8 style and either use a push button switch for the ground or the pull style switch you posted earlier.

hb32 · 11-22-2018, 11:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JSeery

That solenoid will work, but will require somewhat screwy wiring. A better option IMO would be an original Ford v8 style and either use a push button switch for the ground or the pull style switch you posted earlier.

Can you give me a p/n for the solenoid?

51 MERC-CT · 11-22-2018, 11:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hb32

Can you give me a p/n for the solenoid?

No part number but available from Dennis Carpenter on Ebay-----

https://www.ebay.com/itm/1937-51-FOR...6Ij:rk:34:pf:0

Charlie Stephens · 11-23-2018, 12:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hb32

I am somewhat versed in wiring but could use some pictorial help. Searching the forums but no luck yet. Installed a flathead in my 32 pickup and when I ordered the harness from Tyree Harris, I got one for a 4 cylinder as that was the plan. I am staying 6 volt and was planning on positive ground as well. I want to install a starter solenoid as but see that there are 2 options, grounded base and one that isn’t. So many questions, which solenoid, how do I connect wiring ? Also keeping the pull start cable that the 4 cylinder had and have sourced a pull switch. Thanks

Any reason you want to install a solenoid instead of just using the original V8 starter switch? Note that it was also used on the later fours in 1932.

Charlie Stephens

JSeery · 11-23-2018, 11:43 AM

Starter Solenoid 01A-11450 There are different numbers for different years but any will work. The pushbutton on the bottom is handy for trouble shooting. Also, 64-10021

hb32 · 11-23-2018, 12:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JSeery

Starter Solenoid 01A-11450 There are different numbers for different years but any will work. The pushbutton on the bottom is handy for trouble shooting. Also, 64-10021

Thanks and gives me something to look for.

hb32 · 11-23-2018, 01:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Charlie Stephens

Any reason you want to install a solenoid instead of just using the original V8 starter switch? Note that it was also used on the later fours in 1932.

Charlie Stephens

I am utilizing the cable as it is there and want the modern conveniences of the solenoid. My pickup was an original banger that I have replaced with a 59a and do not have the 32 starter or the mechanism for a floor mounted button.

Tinker · 11-25-2018, 09:19 PM

Might as well rewire it also to have a voltage regulator then and eliminate the cutout. 40's on.

I like my stomp starter on my 36. But I'm weird.

Tinker · 11-25-2018, 09:40 PM

With very little effort you could use the floor starter and solenoid. If you choose too. It's just a ground to starter connection. Floor starter and the bash button is just a on/off switch. No more no less. Stomps were just a straight battery 6 to starter. Later dash button just allowed a smaller wire to activate the solenoid to trigger full volts/amps to starter.

Could do the same with the stomp switch vs the button. Depending on your harness, and rerouting a single starter wire.

hb32 · 11-25-2018, 10:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tinker

With very little effort you could use the floor starter and solenoid. If you choose too. It's just a ground to starter connection. Floor starter and the bash button is just a on/off switch. No more no less. Stomps were just a straight battery 6 to starter. Later dash button just allowed a smaller wire to activate the solenoid to trigger full volts/amps to starter.

Could do the same with the stomp switch vs the button. Depending on your harness, and rerouting a single starter wire.

That is my plan but with a pull cable.

Tinker · 11-25-2018, 10:56 PM

Hmmm, I'm not sure what you mean? why would you need a pull cable? IDK?

Once the solenoid is installed you can use any switch, including the floor switch... button, toggle... etc?

Pull cable off the floor switch???

Any switch will do.

Tinker · 11-26-2018, 02:54 AM

you can still buy tractor 6 volt solenoids from most supply depots. they have a coil 6 volt 4th pole "full start" also. The button start solenoid is only good if you want to start under hood, which only works if the ignition is on in the car.

https://www.amazon.com/Complete-Trac...THTKDSRN4DV4Z1

JSeery · 11-26-2018, 09:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tinker

you can still buy tractor 6 volt solenoids from most supply depots. they have a coil 6 volt 4th pole "full start" also. The button start solenoid is only good if you want to start under hood, which only works if the ignition is on in the car.

https://www.amazon.com/Complete-Trac...THTKDSRN4DV4Z1

He is wanting to keep the floor start setup similar to what is currently in the car, and it is a pull cable type of arrangement. The button on the firewall mounted solenoids are also useful to "bump" the engine during troubleshooting, not just to remotely start the car.

I think something like this is what he is looking for.

hb32 · 11-28-2018, 01:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JSeery

He is wanting to keep the floor start setup similar to what is currently in the car, and it is a pull cable type of arrangement. The button on the firewall mounted solenoids are also useful to "bump" the engine during troubleshooting, not just to remotely start the car.

I think something like this is what he is looking for.

Thank you very much for posting an easy to follow pic

This is exactly what I want as I am utilizing the original cable start that the 4 cylinder had.
I have the switch and solenoid, Borg Warner p/n S53 which is equivalent to the early Ford with the bump switch on the bottom. Now need to research cable size for both ground and leads to solenoid and starter. Thanks to all that contributed once again.

JSeery · 11-28-2018, 08:37 PM

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Remember that 6v requires heavier cables than 12v!

hb32 · 11-28-2018, 09:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JSeery

Remember that 6v requires heavier cables than 12v!

Thanks and have some 0 gauge welding cable on order.

hb32 · 03-19-2019, 09:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JSeery

He is wanting to keep the floor start setup similar to what is currently in the car, and it is a pull cable type of arrangement. The button on the firewall mounted solenoids are also useful to "bump" the engine during troubleshooting, not just to remotely start the car.

I think something like this is what he is looking for.

Have it wired as per drawing and no joy. Starter turns off the bump switch, am I missing something obvious? Ground for switch is good as I have my signal lights off the same point.

JSeery · 03-20-2019, 08:01 AM

Start by checking the starter solenoid, jumper the center terminal to ground. That should turn the starter over, if it doesn't then there is some issue with the solenoid itself. If that works ok, then check the wiring to the pull solenoid, and then the pull solenoid itself. The pull solenoid should show a path to ground when the cable is pulled. Lot of possible for issues here. Is the pull cable moving the solenoid plunger far enough to engage the contacts? This whole set up is just providing a ground path to the starter solenoid, just start at the starter solenoid and work your way back.

hb32 · 03-20-2019, 10:01 AM

Thanks once again for the excellent tech talk !!

Bob C · 03-20-2019, 10:26 AM

Also make sure you have the cable from the battery on the correct side of the solenoid.

Bob

hb32 · 03-20-2019, 10:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bob C

Also make sure you have the cable from the battery on the correct side of the solenoid.

Bob

I think I do Bob and read several posts on that. Looking at the solenoid, bump button down, per comes in on right terminal and to starter on left

DavidG · 03-20-2019, 10:48 AM

Since both the fours and V8 are, strictly speaking, flatheads, you might not have misled some of the responders into thinking that you have a four (implied in your initial question and original in all but a handful of late '32 pickups) if you had initially provided the information about your V8 transplant as you finally did in #18.

JSeery · 03-20-2019, 11:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hb32

I think I do Bob and read several posts on that. Looking at the solenoid, bump button down, per comes in on right terminal and to starter on left

Have you tried a ground jumper to the center terminal? That will tell you if the starter solenoid is connected up correctly and if it is working.

hb32 · 03-20-2019, 12:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DavidG

Since both the fours and V8 are, strictly speaking, flatheads, you might not have misled some of the responders into thinking that you have a four (implied in your initial question and original in all but a handful of late '32 pickups) if you had initially provided the information about your V8 transplant as you finally did in #18.

Sorry and my mistake. Otherwise getting some valuable insight here

11-21-2018, 08:16 PM	#2
FireEngineMike Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2014 Location: Webster, NY Posts: 215	Re: Wiring help needed Call Tyree. He will be able to help you.

11-21-2018, 08:33 PM	#3
Pat/Ohio Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Wilmington, OH/Lakeland, FL Posts: 952	Re: Wiring help needed Keeping the Model B type pull start cable might be a little tricky in that the starter on the 4 cylinder was mounted on the driver's side of the motor and the V8 starter is mounted on the passenger side. The Model B cable was connected to the switch mounted on top of the starter. The 4 cylinder starter switch was a "pull type" switch and the V-8 switch is a "push" type switch. It's probably been done...just haven't seen one. Good luck, Pat

11-21-2018, 08:57 PM	#4
Bob C Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: So Cal Posts: 8,751	Re: Wiring help needed Ford used the isolated ground, the start button supplied the ground. I don't think they used a solenoid until 1937.

11-21-2018, 09:24 PM	#6
hb32 Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2012 Location: Nanaimo Vancouver Island B.C. Canada Posts: 1,067	Re: Wiring help needed Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements) Thanks for the replies. Regarding the starter switch, Cole Hersee p/n 9109 is a pull switch which I will mount remotely and run power through it to the starter. I was using the solenoid for an upgrade from the pre 38 system.

11-21-2018, 09:41 PM	#8
40cpe Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Star, MS Posts: 4,024	Re: Wiring help needed but it would supply power to operate a solenoid if that is what he meant?

11-21-2018, 08:00 PM	#1
hb32 Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2012 Location: Nanaimo Vancouver Island B.C. Canada Posts: 1,067	Wiring help needed I am somewhat versed in wiring but could use some pictorial help. Searching the forums but no luck yet. Installed a flathead in my 32 pickup and when I ordered the harness from Tyree Harris, I got one for a 4 cylinder as that was the plan. I am staying 6 volt and was planning on positive ground as well. I want to install a starter solenoid as but see that there are 2 options, grounded base and one that isn’t. So many questions, which solenoid, how do I connect wiring ? Also keeping the pull start cable that the 4 cylinder had and have sourced a pull switch. Thanks

11-21-2018, 09:57 PM	#10
JSeery Member Emeritus Join Date: Nov 2012 Location: Wichita KS Posts: 16,132	Re: Wiring help needed I edited my post in #7. If this switch is used to provide a ground to a dash mounted flathead v8 style starter solenoid, it would work fine.

11-22-2018, 08:19 PM	#12
JSeery Member Emeritus Join Date: Nov 2012 Location: Wichita KS Posts: 16,132	Re: Wiring help needed That solenoid will work, but will require somewhat screwy wiring. A better option IMO would be an original Ford v8 style and either use a push button switch for the ground or the pull style switch you posted earlier.

11-25-2018, 09:19 PM	#19
Tinker Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: MN Posts: 7,053	Re: Wiring help needed Might as well rewire it also to have a voltage regulator then and eliminate the cutout. 40's on. I like my stomp starter on my 36. But I'm weird.

11-25-2018, 09:40 PM	#20
Tinker Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: MN Posts: 7,053	Re: Wiring help needed With very little effort you could use the floor starter and solenoid. If you choose too. It's just a ground to starter connection. Floor starter and the bash button is just a on/off switch. No more no less. Stomps were just a straight battery 6 to starter. Later dash button just allowed a smaller wire to activate the solenoid to trigger full volts/amps to starter. Could do the same with the stomp switch vs the button. Depending on your harness, and rerouting a single starter wire.

11-25-2018, 10:56 PM	#22
Tinker Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: MN Posts: 7,053	Re: Wiring help needed Hmmm, I'm not sure what you mean? why would you need a pull cable? IDK? Once the solenoid is installed you can use any switch, including the floor switch... button, toggle... etc? Pull cable off the floor switch??? Any switch will do. Last edited by Tinker; 11-25-2018 at 11:22 PM.

11-26-2018, 02:54 AM	#23
Tinker Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: MN Posts: 7,053	Re: Wiring help needed you can still buy tractor 6 volt solenoids from most supply depots. they have a coil 6 volt 4th pole "full start" also. The button start solenoid is only good if you want to start under hood, which only works if the ignition is on in the car. https://www.amazon.com/Complete-Trac...THTKDSRN4DV4Z1 Last edited by Tinker; 11-26-2018 at 03:01 AM.

11-28-2018, 08:37 PM	#26
JSeery Member Emeritus Join Date: Nov 2012 Location: Wichita KS Posts: 16,132	Re: Wiring help needed Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements) Remember that 6v requires heavier cables than 12v!

03-20-2019, 08:01 AM	#29
JSeery Member Emeritus Join Date: Nov 2012 Location: Wichita KS Posts: 16,132	Re: Wiring help needed Start by checking the starter solenoid, jumper the center terminal to ground. That should turn the starter over, if it doesn't then there is some issue with the solenoid itself. If that works ok, then check the wiring to the pull solenoid, and then the pull solenoid itself. The pull solenoid should show a path to ground when the cable is pulled. Lot of possible for issues here. Is the pull cable moving the solenoid plunger far enough to engage the contacts? This whole set up is just providing a ground path to the starter solenoid, just start at the starter solenoid and work your way back.

03-20-2019, 10:01 AM	#30
hb32 Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2012 Location: Nanaimo Vancouver Island B.C. Canada Posts: 1,067	Re: Wiring help needed Thanks once again for the excellent tech talk !!

03-20-2019, 10:26 AM	#31
Bob C Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: So Cal Posts: 8,751	Re: Wiring help needed Also make sure you have the cable from the battery on the correct side of the solenoid. Bob

03-20-2019, 10:48 AM	#33
DavidG Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: southeastern Michigan Posts: 10,101	Re: Wiring help needed Since both the fours and V8 are, strictly speaking, flatheads, you might not have misled some of the responders into thinking that you have a four (implied in your initial question and original in all but a handful of late '32 pickups) if you had initially provided the information about your V8 transplant as you finally did in #18.