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Old 10-05-2020, 10:19 PM   #1
bmwillia
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Default Cooling system help needed

After 8 long years, I finally have my grandfather's coupe back on the road.

Drove around a little Thursday afternoon staying around 40-45mph and towards the end of my trip, a little coolant sprayed out of the top of the radiator. It was on a downshift and I chalked it up to that since the temp gauge was reading around 170.

Friday afternoon, Checked Coolant and I drove around some more and decided to push it a little. I didn't have my mufflers on yet so I was running open headers. Got it up close to 60mph and decided that was fast enough and let her coast down. Temp still in the 170 range and coolant really spewed out of the cap. Took a look at the cap (Greyhound repro) and the gaskets were pretty worn so I went to the autocrats store and got a new gasket. It improved things a little but I found that the ears of the cap were corroded to the point that they are not able to grab the ring of the radiator hole and pull the cap down tight.

Saturday after refilling the Radiator, it took about a gallon of coolant, I drove around all day. put about 60 miles on the car with no issues from the radiator. just a few very small spritzes of coolant a couple of times throughout the day and I chalked it up to the loose cap. Throughout the day I checked the temp gauge and the engine block with a laser and they matched up with the block temp reading about 10deg cooler as one would expect.

Sunday, a few more drives with no issues.

Today, I took it to the muffler shop first thing this morning, got the exhaust put on and picked it up about 2:30. The Muffler shop is on a main highway so I pushed it pretty hard on acceleration and cruised at around 50mph most of the way home, about 5 miles. No Issues.

This evening I got in it to drive a little and test out the lights. Drove about the same as I did this afternoon although I did not accelerate as hard. Hit a little over 50mph for a couple of miles on straight good road and came to a 4 way stop. Took a right and about 1/4 mile after taking off coolant began pouring out of the top of the radiator. The temp gauge was around 160. Started heading home and coolant continued to puke out of the radiator occasionally even as I babied it as much as I could. No steam, and the coolant that made it through the cowl even onto my leg was not hot enough to burn me. The car did not run hot until the last half mile when enough coolant had poured from the radiator and only then did I see steam.

What would cause my cooling system to puke coolant under load when the car is not hot?

I guess I have not ruled our overheating, but my measuring tools suggest that is not the case.

As a matter of fact, it happened one time within the first 1/4 mile after leaving my subdivision and accelerating hard.

I have ordered a rebuild kit for the greyhound cap. That is my starting point but other than that, Not sure where to look.

Thanks!
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Old 10-06-2020, 07:58 AM   #2
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Default Re: Cooling system help needed

Get a thermal temp gauge at Harbor Freight or off the i/net.I don't believe your gauge is accurate. Even if way overheated NO water/coolant should come out from the cap, do the g/hound rebuild and get the temp gun.
Most likely a plugged radiator or corroded cooling system or stuck t/stat(s), if installed.
Others will come in I'm sure.
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Old 10-06-2020, 08:02 AM   #3
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Default Re: Cooling system help needed

Fill coolant to just cover the radiator tubes. Too much and it will come out.
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Old 10-06-2020, 10:48 AM   #4
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Default Re: Cooling system help needed

What happens if you drive with the radiator cap "loose" with no pressure?

Are your radiator hoses literally collapsing, restricting flow?

When you remove the radiator cap and let the engine reach operating temperature, can you see water flowing thru the system?

Could your thermostats have turned sideways inside the radiator hoses, restricting flow.

Remove thermostats and see what happens? Immerse them in hot water and observe the temperature at which they open.
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Old 10-06-2020, 12:25 PM   #5
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Default Re: Cooling system help needed

I have a laser temp gun from harbor freight and the temps I shoot are about 10 deg cooler than what the guage reads.

I'm not running stats and I don't believe the hoses are collapsing, unless they are doing it while driving. I'll get it up to temp this afternoon and open the hood and rev it by hand to see if there is any signs of the hoses collapsing.

I do see coolant moving in the radiator when the engine is running. I am pretty sure there is little to no pressure from the cap since it needs a rebuild and is essentially not sealing all the way.

I read several threads on here and at the HAMB last night. Maybe I am overfilling.

Thanks everyone for your input. I'll do some more testing based on your suggestions and report back.
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Old 10-06-2020, 12:34 PM   #6
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Default Re: Cooling system help needed

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If you have more fluid going into the radiator than what can flow through it and back to the engine, it is going to overflow. May need to get the radiator cleaned out. Might also try a pressure cap, low pressure, just a few psi and a catch can, just to see if that helps.

Installing thermostats might help as well!
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Old 10-06-2020, 12:59 PM   #7
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Default Re: Cooling system help needed

I am with post #6 above. My basic theory is if you are having cooling issues and you do not have a full report on the condition of the radiator, then its time to go to your olde timey radiator shop and have them test it/ clean it and provide you with their opinion. This work is not expensive in the grand scheme of things and you will know a lot more than when you started. When you are chasing a bunch of variables, you have to get some solid info on the components involved or it will make you crazy.
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Old 10-06-2020, 01:17 PM   #8
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Default Re: Cooling system help needed

When I bought my '46 Super Deluxe, I pulled the rad and heater core, to have them inspected, flushed and pressure tested, as I had read many posts about flatheads overheating. The report from the rad shop showed all was good. I replaced the water pumps to new style, all rad hoses, and went with 180 deg. stats. I would suggest that this service should be done on any old vehicle that sat around for many years.
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Old 10-06-2020, 01:41 PM   #9
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Default Re: Cooling system help needed

I'm with "JSeery" on thermostats. They all came with them from the factory.
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Old 10-06-2020, 02:01 PM   #10
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Default Re: Cooling system help needed

Quote:
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I'm with "JSeery" on thermostats. They all came with them from the factory.
I didn't think the 33 had thermostats from the factory. Not arguing, I was just unaware.
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Old 10-06-2020, 02:05 PM   #11
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Default Re: Cooling system help needed

By the way, I do have two water pumps rebuilt by skip.

I really don't know that I am overheating until too much of the coolant comes out for the remaining coolant to keep the engine cool.

What you all are saying about flow makes sense though, could it be that there is enough restriction in the radiator that when running at higher RPM with Skips higher flow pumps that the water cannot move through the radiator fast enough and therefore backs up and out of the cap?
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Old 10-06-2020, 02:25 PM   #12
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Default Re: Cooling system help needed

Had issues with my 47 Monarch. Turned out the over flow tube was plugged with crud about half way replaced with rubber hose. I used a piece of string off my weed whacker to go through tube. Might want to check it out
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Old 10-06-2020, 02:37 PM   #13
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Default Re: Cooling system help needed

High flow pumps, no/low restriction in hoses and the "toilet is overflowing" . Report back on what Mr. radiator has to say. You are close to getting this sorted out.
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Old 10-06-2020, 03:38 PM   #14
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Default Re: Cooling system help needed

Quote:
Originally Posted by bmwillia View Post
By the way, I do have two water pumps rebuilt by skip.

I really don't know that I am overheating until too much of the coolant comes out for the remaining coolant to keep the engine cool.

What you all are saying about flow makes sense though, could it be that there is enough restriction in the radiator that when running at higher RPM with Skips higher flow pumps that the water cannot move through the radiator fast enough and therefore backs up and out of the cap?
That sounds like the issue to me.
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Old 10-06-2020, 03:55 PM   #15
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Default Re: Cooling system help needed

I did all of the recommended actions, but the most noticeable result was to use the Old Henry method of flushing the block. Amazing amount of cr*p came ot.
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Old 10-06-2020, 04:48 PM   #16
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Default Re: Cooling system help needed

33 .s have t/stats
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Old 10-06-2020, 07:42 PM   #17
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Default Re: Cooling system help needed

That cooling system is an open system therefore it can not build any pressure not even with a pressure cap. The overflow tube comes Right out of the top tank .Skip the water pump guy has an in-line 4 lb pressure relief that you place on the end of the overflow tube. Works great.
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Old 10-06-2020, 07:47 PM   #18
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Default Re: Cooling system help needed

The only time I can recall mine doing anything like that would be because I had the radiator too full , loose cap and the theromsats would not have been open much... gave it too much too soon...
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Old 10-06-2020, 07:50 PM   #19
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Default Re: Cooling system help needed

The temperature gauge reads only the side it is on, the other side can be overheating. and not show on the gauge
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Old 10-07-2020, 07:12 AM   #20
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Default Re: Cooling system help needed

I agree with a radiator flush treatment and, filling to just above the baffles and no more than a 3# pressure cap.
With the older Model A's a contributor to overheating was that trusty (?) timing lever. How is the timing with your engine? Does the distributor advance when you rev it?
Just my 2 cents worth...keep the change... Chap
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Old 10-07-2020, 07:45 AM   #21
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Default Re: Cooling system help needed

Quote:
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I agree with a radiator flush treatment and, filling to just above the baffles and no more than a 3# pressure cap.
With the older Model A's a contributor to overheating was that trusty (?) timing lever. How is the timing with your engine? Does the distributor advance when you rev it?
Just my 2 cents worth...keep the change... Chap

I will search Old Henry's block flushing method and try that.

I pulled the radiator last night and will take it to the shop this morning.

I have also wondered if timing was an issue leading to this problem. How do I know if the dist. is advancing? I'll admit I am very ignorant when it comes to timing and advance.

The reason I have wondered about timing is that at idle, I get a consistent "pop" from the exhaust and it is especially pronounced while shifting between 1st and 2nd when the clutch is pressed and the load is removed from the engine. Could these two things be related?

By the way, you guys are great! Thank you so much for sharing your knowledge!
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Old 10-07-2020, 04:47 PM   #22
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Default Re: Cooling system help needed

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Originally Posted by bmwillia View Post
I didn't think the 33 had thermostats from the factory. Not arguing, I was just unaware.
You're right they didn't have them in 33 but should have and Ford corrected that in 34 (even if they were probably to low at 150F) .

As mentioned previously they (well at least mine) will puke if overfilled simply due to thermal expansion. Its happy running level may be lower than you think.

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Old 10-07-2020, 04:50 PM   #23
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Default Re: Cooling system help needed

Quote:
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33 .s have t/stats
Lawrie
Sorry I have put him wrong in my last post -I thought it was only 34's
Always nice to learn something ! Karl
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Old 10-07-2020, 05:54 PM   #24
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Default Re: Cooling system help needed

I went through all you are with my 35 five window. A new core solved the problem. 80 yr. old cores dont cut it especialy with newer pumps. I just cover the cores cold.
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Old 10-08-2020, 05:48 AM   #25
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Default Re: Cooling system help needed

Right on with just filling to the top of the cores. Water seeks it's own level in the system. I may have missed it somewhere in the post. Is the radiator original, was cleaned and flow tested. I have seen mice nests in the radiator tanks, and similar debris in the heads of stored engines.
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Old 10-08-2020, 08:50 AM   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bmwillia View Post
I will search Old Henry's block flushing method and try that.

I pulled the radiator last night and will take it to the shop this morning.

I have also wondered if timing was an issue leading to this problem. How do I know if the dist. is advancing? I'll admit I am very ignorant when it comes to timing and advance.

The reason I have wondered about timing is that at idle, I get a consistent "pop" from the exhaust and it is especially pronounced while shifting between 1st and 2nd when the clutch is pressed and the load is removed from the engine. Could these two things be related?

By the way, you guys are great! Thank you so much for sharing your knowledge!
Popping out the exhaust means a plug is firing when the exhaust valve is still open.....cross firing in the cap or between plug wires.....or firing order isn’t right....Mark
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Old 10-08-2020, 10:08 AM   #27
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Default Re: Cooling system help needed

Quote:
Originally Posted by bmwillia View Post
I will search Old Henry's block flushing method and try that.

I pulled the radiator last night and will take it to the shop this morning.

I have also wondered if timing was an issue leading to this problem. How do I know if the dist. is advancing? I'll admit I am very ignorant when it comes to timing and advance.

The reason I have wondered about timing is that at idle, I get a consistent "pop" from the exhaust and it is especially pronounced while shifting between 1st and 2nd when the clutch is pressed and the load is removed from the engine. Could these two things be related?

By the way, you guys are great! Thank you so much for sharing your knowledge!
Your not really showing any signs of overheating, so most likely not the issue. There is an adjust on the side of the distributor, but it is somewhat trial and error unless you establish a timing mark to check it against.

The timing is also controlled by the points being set correctly.
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Old 10-08-2020, 01:21 PM   #28
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Default Re: Cooling system help needed

I like "BMWILLIA" , the original poster (OP) and here is why. He came to this forum with a question about a problem he is experiencing and was clear in laying out the situation. He has studied the various advices and "opinions" presented. He has followed up with answers to our questions.
He then set out on a logical process to identify and isolate and hopefully cure the problem.
Doesn't happen all the time.
Hopefully we haven't failed him. That would be bad.
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Old 10-08-2020, 07:14 PM   #29
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Default Re: Cooling system help needed

Hi im with "chap 42" on this check your timing my advance played up intermittantly sticking [not fully advancing] and boy did it reek havoc with the temp and a real cow to workout But dont discount any of the other suggestions as they all ring true. PS Keep us up to date its always good to here it worked out for you and what caused it
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Old 10-09-2020, 08:51 AM   #30
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Here is the latest update:

Pulled the radiator and brought it to the local shop. They are looking into it. In the mean time, I am flushing the block. Have the driver side soaking in some rust kill/simple green. Ran out of time yesterday to get the passenger side soaking. Will drain the driver side this weekend, pull the water pumps and flush with a water hose and start the passenger side soak. I also have the Greyhound cap rebuilt with a kit from Mac's. It looks like a much better set up than the one I had.

I have emailed Skip to see about his 3lb overflow check valve but have not heard back yet. will probably have to call him.

After reading FlatFord8's post I'm going to take a look at my plug wires and make sure I don't have any crossed up as far as firing order.

Once I get the radiator back, I'll put it all back together and run it and see what happens.
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Old 10-09-2020, 10:00 AM   #31
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Default Re: Cooling system help needed

Brad, are you working on adding some thermostats?
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Old 10-09-2020, 11:41 AM   #32
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I have looked for some, but the only ones I have found made like the 33-34 ones are for the Model A. They are 150 degree stats. Not sure if those will work.


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Old 10-09-2020, 03:32 PM   #33
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IMO you need at least 180-185 deg or even 190 deg. You about have to use the modern style thermostats or the inline ones by (not sure of the name, LOL). The second photo is the more common way to locate them, or us a sleeve inside the hose and a second clamp.
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Old 10-09-2020, 03:46 PM   #34
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I have a 1935 motor with the pumps attached to the front of the heads so your second photo is not an option.

I'll keep looking for option 1.
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Old 10-09-2020, 04:55 PM   #35
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Default Re: Cooling system help needed

Hi , have been reading this forum about overheating problems. Also older dated forums here about heat.
I finally saw where the 3pd pressure release thing went. Location Was not mentioned previously in 2013 ending date forum.
Anyhow i just purchased a 1941 super deluxe with a 1951 flathead in it. Darn thing is pretty neat to drive. I have the problem where it can sit and run, come up to temp and be just fine. Temp being 180. Should mention it seems to have a newer type distributor with a vacuum from carb advance.
If you drive it after a bit it pukes water out the overflow, quite a bit actually. It has new pumps, thermostats and water hoses installed from previous owner.
I suspect the radiator may be the problem
as it is the one that has the space in the middle and looks older.
My 1st problem is they do not show one listed my size. It is like 27 tall, 19 wide with double outlets top and bottom. Radiator guy might be able to re rod it but not sure till I get it to him. Would rather just buy new.
I am going to try the deflector idea from earlier post, mayb out of cardboard 1st to see what happens.
Other idea is, Can I just plug the overflow tube for now?
New to flatheads but its gonna be fun.
I guess to summarize my questions as I rambled on there a little
1. Can I pinch overflow pipe closed
2. Should I maybe get different water pumps
3. Where can I find the tall skinny radiator?
Anyhow thanks for your patience
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Old 10-09-2020, 05:10 PM   #36
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NO experience with these, just know they exist.

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Old 10-09-2020, 05:12 PM   #37
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Default Re: Cooling system help needed

T/stats are easy to do , get a set of modern ones from the store ,get a short length of SS tube the same diameter as the inside of the rad hose,tig weld the stats to the tube ,machine off the excess flange and just push them up into the top hoses.
let me know if you want a pic
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Old 10-09-2020, 05:19 PM   #38
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Default Re: Cooling system help needed

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I have a 1935 motor with the pumps attached to the front of the heads so your second photo is not an option.

I'll keep looking for option 1.
Why is the second photo not an option?
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Old 10-09-2020, 05:38 PM   #39
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Why is the second photo not an option?
I had the same thought flatjack, but I'm not that familiar with the in-head pumps. If the hoses are the same size (or close) it should work the same.
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Old 10-09-2020, 05:58 PM   #40
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Default Re: Cooling system help needed

When I had my 46 I put some of that powdered stuff ( was Motorcraft) in the rad and run if for a while it bubbled and foamed and overflowed for a while but it cleaned out the crud and you could eventually see nice copper down the radiator throat. no problems after that.

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Old 10-09-2020, 06:37 PM   #41
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I had the same thought flatjack, but I'm not that familiar with the in-head pumps. If the hoses are the same size (or close) it should work the same.

Yeah. I typed too quickly. Now that I think about it more, I guess I could rig them on top of the water pumps.


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Old 10-09-2020, 11:16 PM   #42
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Default Re: Cooling system help needed

Brad,
Did you notice a smell of gasoline or exhaust in the radiator?
Years ago my 50 did what you describe, blowing the water out. It was a cracked cylinder.

That engine would run cool at idle all day long. If you put it under load, the water jacket would pressurize and blow coolant out of the radiator.

Hopefully this is not your problem. If it is blowing water out due to compression, hopefully it's a head gasket issue.

I recommend that you do a compression test! Do it cold and do another when the engine is at operating temperature. Watch out those plugs will be hot.
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Old 10-10-2020, 07:28 AM   #43
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Default Re: Cooling system help needed

I had a similar issue a number of years ago and found a couple of head bolts not torqued down - just worth a quick check
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Old 10-10-2020, 07:42 PM   #44
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Default Re: Cooling system help needed

Quote:
Originally Posted by Veeder View Post
I had a similar issue a number of years ago and found a couple of head bolts not torqued down - just worth a quick check
I just torqued the head nuts down again. some of them were quite a bit under 55lbs.

I'd be really surprised if I had a cracked cylinder as F-ONE mentioned as I just had the heads off a few months ago and did not observe any cracks. I also do not smell gas or exhaust in the coolant. Thanks for the suggestion though.

On a side note, I mentioned earlier that The car was backfiring/popping out of the exhaust and flatford8 mentioned a cylinder firing at the wrong time. Since I have the radiator off at the shop, its easy to get to the distributor so I rechecked all of my plug wires to make sure none were crossed. I did have two of my plug wires crossed. After straightening that our I fired it up for a few seconds and she purred like a kitten. Thanks for the help on that Mark.
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Old 10-10-2020, 09:12 PM   #45
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Default Re: Cooling system help needed

Sounds like progress!
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Old 10-11-2020, 07:11 AM   #46
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Default Re: Cooling system help needed

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I was given a 59 AB in great shape . Engine had issues overheating.
Cleaned the block after tear down with wire brush , filled two large
jars with debris . My guess PO tanked the block maybe but
that didn't seem to help pull the slag out of the block .
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Old 10-13-2020, 08:29 PM   #47
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Default Re: Cooling system help needed

Quick update:

Got the Radiator back from the shop. It was clogged pretty good and they rodded it out and its flowing good with no leaks.

I put it back on the car and filled it up with distilled water and took it for a drive. nothing came out of the top except when I hit a pretty big bump. I don't think the cap is sealing really well and I'll have to deal with that.

Temp was really low. Stayed around 150 while on the move and got as high as 170 idling in the driveway when I got home.

I ordered 180 degree stats. Should I have ordered 150 degree stats?

I also ordered a 3lb check valve for the overflow tube and I am losing coolant out of the tube but not alot as the level looked to be where is was when I filled it and the water I felt on the tube and the front axle could have just been from the bumps I hit and the splashing coolant making it down the tube.

So what do y'all think about the stats? 180 or 150?
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Old 10-13-2020, 08:33 PM   #48
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Default Re: Cooling system help needed

No on the 150 deg thermostats, you want at least 180 deg. The 3 psi valve in the overflow isn't going to help much until you get the cap sealed.
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Old 10-13-2020, 09:04 PM   #49
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Default Re: Cooling system help needed

I'm running a greyhound cap and the problem is that the square piece on the bottom of the cap that is supposed to hold the brass piece in one place is rounded and I cant get the screw tight enough to hold the brass piece in place.

I really wanted to use the greyhound because my grandfather was so proud of it. I can remember him showing it to me when I was a kid.

Its a repro with attached tail, but he was really proud of it.

Maybe I'll just get a regular cap to drive with and put the dog on it for shows and stuff.
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Old 10-13-2020, 10:12 PM   #50
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Default Re: Cooling system help needed

180 stats
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Old 10-24-2020, 07:20 PM   #51
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Alright final update on this one.

I got my 180 stats from Robert Shewman installed, They are very nice stats with brass collars. Also installed Skip's check valve and fixed my greyhound cap. Drove quite a while today. Temp stayed between 175 and 190 the whole trip. Didn't lose any coolant even though I pushed it up to around 60mph a few times.

Thanks all for your help!
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Old 10-24-2020, 11:47 PM   #52
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Sounds good!
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Old 10-25-2020, 05:35 AM   #53
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Default Re: Cooling system help needed

That’s great!!.....your motor will love running at 190* !!!.....now how about some more pics of your car when you get time......Mark
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Old 10-27-2020, 10:02 PM   #54
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Old 10-27-2020, 10:17 PM   #55
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