toe in tool

[shew01]

Sorry. I just saw Ruth’s post.


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[shew01]

Interesting video.

https://youtu.be/TTkSwuXKWpM


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[shew01]

This sounds like a viable way to get around bent wheels. You can “mount” the toe plates directly on the hubs if you cut the appropriate holes on the toe plates.

https://youtu.be/XB2DgciGQa8


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[Ruth]

Originally Posted by Phil Brown

If you got a bent wheel don't ya think that that should be fixed before the alignment ? But yea those are what Brent was talking about. They work great and are super easy to use.

I don't have a bent wheel, just included as I thought someone would comment on it.

[Chuck Kuntz]

My method is two common pins and a tape measure. place pins in tread at rear of tire, measure, then roll forward and measure again leaving pins in place. This eliminates runout on wheel and tire effects.

[Bill Z]

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Originally Posted by Chuck Kuntz

My method is two common pins and a tape measure. place pins in tread at rear of tire, measure, then roll forward and measure again leaving pins in place. This eliminates runout on wheel and tire effects.

Chuck’s method using two pins does indeed eliminate the effects of wheel/tire runout on toe measurement. That’s because like a Duby or “spring gauge” it uses a single measuring set-point at both front wheels, that move in unison from and to a measured height, front to rear as the car is rolled. The chains on the gauge establish this.

Since each wheel has it’s own rotational plane, the only variable between the two wheels, at that measurement set-point, is toe-in/out. Camber, while not adjustable, effects the reading on the gauge while the car is rolled, but returns when the gauge or pins are brought back up to measuring height.

The use of measurement plates on the front wheels would definitely be effected by runout or a bent wheel. Other methods certainly work, but the Duby or spring gauge is convenient, especially when working alone, and repeatably accurate. Just my opinion.

[Ed in Maine]

I liked GeneBob's comments. Guys, get with it and make your own tool. I used a length of electrical conduit, coil spring (hardware store item) and a wood dowel that would slide easily in the conduit. Cut a slot in the conduit at a position where you can read a paper ruler glued to the dowel. Then you need a (2) short lengths of chain and couple of ends on the conduit that are somewhat pointed to stick on the wheel where the tire meets the rim. You can make these with pipe caps and screws threaded into the caps. My Toe-In tool hangs in the garage and is certainly a part of the Model A hobby. Have fun with it!

One final comment, after making this tool and getting the car back on the road, I took the car to a gas station and had them check the toe-in. They told me it was so close it was not worth changing it! Ed

[Dino's A]

I like the spring loaded curtain rod idea. Or those spring
loaded shower rods as well. I guess you can make a little
sheet metal plate that can be used to tell you where you are
at. Even some chains to make it level??? Great idea!

[old ugly]

Originally Posted by Bill Z

Actually, the opposite is true. With a spring gauge or “Duby” toe-in gauge, a bent wheel or one with run-out is not a factor when measuring for proper toe-in specification. When it’s set up in front of the axle between the tire sidewalls with the chains just touching the floor, the gauge is then calibrated or set to zero. When the car is rolled forward and the gauge rotates with the wheels/tires from a 4 o’clock position to an 8 o’clock position, it remains at that same set point, relative to the wheels/ tires. The only thing that changes the reading on the gauge, is the amount of toe-in or toe-out, which is the difference in degree of angle between the left and right spindles relative to each other.

I just had this same conversation at tonight’s Model A club meeting when I gave a demonstration of my version of this type of gauge that I built with mostly stuff I had laying around. Here’s some pictures.

ok ill let my trade school teacher know that he is wrong.

[BRENT in 10-uh-C]

Originally Posted by Ruth

Brent, is this the device you are referring too? I have never seen one before but appear easy to use. Thanks for the heads up.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/19515158117...IAAOSwMkRe0JsK

I don't imagine it would work so good if you had a bent/wobbly wheel/tire?

Yes.


As mentioned, a bent wheel changes everything ...no matter what type gauge you choose to use. For me, I would check measurement with the toe-plates, then roll the vehicle forward about 2 foot (-about a ¼ turn of the wheel) and re-measure. Compare your readings and adjust accordingly.

[GMCPASO]

Originally Posted by aermotor

Can't see any difference between the ebay one for $89.18 and the other one for
for $294. John

Agree with that observation. We have one in our club purchased by a member.

It is stored at my house and has been used 4 times now and all are amazed at how well their cars now drive/steer.

Great tool.

[Y-Blockhead]

Originally Posted by aermotor

Can't see any difference between the ebay one for $89.18 and the other one for
for $294. John

Nor the $45 one. https://www.ebay.com/itm/19515158117...IAAOSwMkRe0JsK

[Bill Z]

Here’s a link to an original copy of paperwork for a Duby toe-in gauge. It specifically states that wheel runout does not effect the accuracy of the gauge and explains why. The key point being ONE contact measuring point between the two front wheels during the entire procedure.

[alexiskai]

Originally Posted by Y-Blockhead

Nor the $45 one. https://www.ebay.com/itm/19515158117...IAAOSwMkRe0JsK

I think the higher-end plates have finer gradations marked on the tape.

[nkaminar]

Here is a photo of MY toe in tool. Sorry, not very good looking but its all I got.

[Y-Blockhead]

Originally Posted by alexiskai

I think the higher-end plates have finer gradations marked on the tape.

Haha, funny. I sure hope your eyes are a heck of a lot better than mine to read smaller than 1/32" on a tape measure.

[daveymc29]

So do most set toe in to 1/32 inch? I have yet to measure mine with anything other than look at the gap fore and aft and make sure the gap at the end of my gage is to the rear of the tire sidewall about 6 inches off the ground. I say about because I use a couple of pieces of 2 X 6 and I know that to be really 5.5 inches, not 6.0. The gap I measure by eye, if it looks right I tighten things up, if not I change the gap and then tighten it back up. Touch the tires once in a while. Run your bare hand across the tread, in and out. If one way feels like it resists your hand the tire is wearing wrong. There should be no difference, Look at the tire from the front of the car in such a way as to see the gooves and the Lands (the raised portion between the grooves) If one side of a grove is higher than the other side your tire is not wearing right, both sides should be the same and all grooves should be very close to the same depth, these I do measure in 32nds, with a little tool most tire shops have for the purpose of measuring grooves and selling you tires and allignments.

[Bob Bidonde]

Toe Plates are much much easier to use then the sticks & chains.

[BillCNC]

Originally Posted by BRENT in 10-uh-C

I think those gages are very outdated, and WAY too troublesome. At the shop, we use 'Toe Plates' to set the toe-in measurement because it is super fast. (Google them.)

We carry a set in our race car trailer to use at the track, and many pro racing teams use them to set the alignment on their competition cars. They are THAT accurate.

Two tape measures?

In my lifetime of over 61 years, I have NEVER seen two tape measures that measure the same ... EVER. Close, but never equal due to how that are made.

Go to any store that sells tape measures and do a side-by-side test. You will be shocked at the what you will find. I have seen them as far as .250" off, but most are off by .125" or less which is far cry from the .032" needed to be measured.

If this system is used, one would have to shop in person for two tape measures that would be only "CLOSE" but not dead on.

Regards
Bill

[30Murray]

I found toe plates much easier to use, and accurate too when compared with a rod-type tool. You can see an example on how to use them as well as make your own for next to nothing in the following link. Oh, and I use two old slightly different Stanley tape measures that are virtually exactly equal in measurements. The important thing is to keep equal tension when measuring.

http://www.lionsgatemodelaclub.com/T...tech_tips.html