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Old 07-06-2015, 01:56 PM   #1
Patrick L.
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Default Restoration cost

I'm curious and didn't want to hi-jack a previous thread.

What would you figure the cost would be on a 'correct restoration' that would include doing everything.
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Old 07-06-2015, 02:21 PM   #2
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Default Re: Restoration cost

And by correct you mean no repo parts also
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Old 07-06-2015, 02:26 PM   #3
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Default Re: Restoration cost

That would totally depend on what that particular car needs how much of the work your capable of doing yourself and to what degree of restoration that you want to end up with...driver....show car......100 point show car...trailer queen......most of the time you don't get back what you put into it money wise. Don't ask me how I know. I do it for a hobby...the simplicity of the Model A...the fun of driving them and I actually like working on them. Most of all, the satisfaction when I have tools and parts all over the place when I'm done and it runs good....stops good.....and looks good.
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Old 07-06-2015, 02:29 PM   #4
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Default Re: Restoration cost

There are a lot of variables; open cars (roadster) could well be simpler (no body wood, less painting, simpler interior). Also, if the sheet metal has a lot of rust, then sandblasting, patching, and filling will take a lot of time. To go from complete rust bucket to show-room perfection, I would estimate US$20k - US$60k, again depending on body type, and the amount of work needed to fix still, frame parts, etc.
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Old 07-06-2015, 02:35 PM   #5
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Default Re: Restoration cost

By correct I meant doing everything and not just a quick re-furbish. Original stuff would be nice, but, maybe some re-po would be needed. I guess restoration means different things to different people.
I mean doing the whole rolling chassis, electrics, body, interior. Ending up with an exceptional car, but, not necessarily a 100 pointer.

I was going to wait, but, my figures come out to about $20K, no labor costs. Thats why I'm a cheap-skate when it comes to initial purchase.
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Old 07-06-2015, 02:50 PM   #6
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A lot of money I have about 9,000.00 in mine now and I'm not even close to being done and for my car I figure that I'm going to have to spend another 5,000.00 to get it all done and that's with some re-pop part's not very many but some.
And I'm doing mostly all of the work myself on the car but what kind of car or truck do you have ????. and what part of the country do you live in reason is it can cost you more in different part's of the country.
Like the paint job is around here is going to cost me about 4,000.00 and that's putting the correct kind of paint on the car for that year lacquer fenders and the rest of the car gets enamal paint and my car was originaly all black with apple green trim put on by hand.
Now that's what's going to cost you a lot of money you will have more in the paint and to re-store all of the original part's like me I'm going to buy the stuff to restore the original part's myself it's to expensive to send it out to have it done.
Depending on what kind of car you have and if you are going for perfect for the guding like it was when it came off the assembling line now that's what I'm going for but then again the car I have has been in my family for a vary long time and when I'm gone it's NOT going to be sold it will stay in the family it's in my will already.
So you have to think of what kind of a car do you want do you want a fun driver car and NOT spend a lot of money on it but if you are going for gudging you will have to spend a lot of money just to get it that way so is it worth all of the money to you.
You got to think these cars aren't worth that much anymore there cheap compaired to other used cars unless u have a A-400 or a car that's worth a lot of money I wouldn't do it I would just fix it for a driver car there fun to drive around but if you make it a gudging car you wouldn't be able to drive it around like a normal car and life is to DAM short why would anyone want to do that I'm doing it just because I'm disabled so I have nothing else to do other then work on the car and I'm doing most if not all of the work myself and I can't drive anyway so to me it really doesn't matter but it gives me something to do and I normaly only buy original part's from Bert's out in Denver.
But do what you want it's your car do as you and your money can best of luck but it will cost you more then 20,000 to get it to off the line condition I wouldn't do it but do what you want it's your car
Reggie

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Old 07-06-2015, 02:57 PM   #7
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Default Re: Restoration cost

Buying a decent car to start with and building correctly from the ground up probably 40k if you do all the work yourself. If youre paying a shop to do the work you could expect 60-100k depending on body type and how much time they have to spend tracking down parts
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Old 07-06-2015, 03:02 PM   #8
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Too many parameters controlling the costs.

The big question is how well tooled are you and what information resources can you pull from to get the jobs done correct.

Short of plating and balancing a crank my brother and I can do much of the restoration mechanical work with on hand tooling. That includes babbitting, grinding the crank, all the brake work and so on. We have accumulated tooling with a lot of value collected over the years.

My cost estimates of doing a full restoration, but not to points, on my cabriolet is ruffly $20,000 when done (I have a ways to go). This will not be a car that is ready for judging. The chassis is restored pretty much back to factory standards using used, NOS and new parts as available and looking at costs.

If I paid someone to do various sub assemblies the price would double with no problem.

Keep in mind this is for what I call a driver car. You will find rusty headed original nuts and bolts on the car because they were mechanically better then some cosmetically nice original parts.

It is easy to figure out costs. Look at the catalogs and rebuilding shops. Start adding up how much for the various sub-assemblies finished.

A proper paint job would cost several thousand dollars for materials. A generic number I know for 60's cars is figure about $8000 as the low end to have car painted right. Proper body work can cost too.

A durable interior is $3000 to $6000 I believe depending on body.

Repro shocks $900

Again this is all for a driver car that is very close to factory. It will run 60 MPH all day long, stop great and get 20+ MPG and be comfortable. This is a car that you should just get in and go with few if any problems for the next 50 years.
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Old 07-06-2015, 03:04 PM   #9
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Default Re: Restoration cost

Yes a lot of variables but for a good average
I just finished my Tudor which is a national winner. I farmed out the body and paint work but did all the labor myself, assembly and parts, sheet metal, interior, diff gears, tranny, gears, radiator etc....
i have yet to add up the receipts but I'm in the neighborhood of 45-50k without my labor.incld...
The paint and body work costs 15k and that was a special deal...
Figure in labor and holy cow lets see 2000 hours by 75 a cheap rate 150k plus 50 = 200k
I have an agreed value of 80k for insurance which is low
Anyone want to buy it

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Old 07-06-2015, 03:14 PM   #10
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Default Re: Restoration cost

I estimate I will have close to $23,000 into the delivery when done. That is with a slightly warmed up engine, a 39 style transmission and OD. Payed $450 for the shell of a body that needed alot of work in the back section and $500 for a complete numbers matching chassis. Have about $3200 total into it now including very nice fenders. Long way to go with wood, engine and lots of bodywork ahead. Rod
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Old 07-06-2015, 04:21 PM   #11
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Default Re: Restoration cost

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mitch//pa View Post
Yes a lot of variables but for a good average
I just finished my Tudor which is a national winner. I farmed out the body and paint work but did all the labor myself, assembly and parts, sheet metal, interior, diff gears, tranny, gears, radiator etc....
i have yet to add up the receipts but I'm in the neighborhood of 45-50k without my labor....
The paint and body work costs 15k and that was a special deal...
Figure in labor and holy cow lets see 2000 hours by 75 a cheap rate 150k plus 50 = 200k
I have an agreed value of 80k for insurance which is low
Same here........ With a 1930 Briggs a town Sedan. Mine isn't done yet..... About to put in 3k interior from LB plus labor of 3k.... Haven't added it up, don't want to be thrown of the house. However, I love the process and the car....
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Old 07-06-2015, 04:43 PM   #12
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Default Re: Restoration cost

Cost can be anywhere, but $50k and up would be a starting point for a good restoration in my mind. My car is not really a restoration, but will have nearly 3000 of my own hours in it and likely $40k plus for paint and interior. Plus parts. ...more time and $'s if buying good original parts, correct for month of assembly.

More efficient use of my time could cut hours to 2,000, I am sure, but still if you are going through a whole car, thousands of hours is not unexpected.

Cheaper to buy a perfect finished car, but not nearly the fun.
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Old 07-06-2015, 05:00 PM   #13
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Default Re: Restoration cost

See, been doing this work for 5 decades. The only thing I would farm out is the engine. Thats why I'm looking for another [ preferable another roadster or phaeton] so I can work on it while still driving the other.
As I mentioned about $20K will go into it so thats why I'm cheap on the initial cost. I also know the total cost can't be recovered and its best to let someone else take the big loss and just buy one thats already been done. But, I want to do one. But, to me, there also comes a point of diminishing returns.
This is the reason for this question considering the prices of the below/previous
thread. I just really wonder over the prices I see these old monsters being sold for. I should have bought every single one when I was a kid when they were going for less than the cost of dinner.

Thats for the responses.
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Old 07-06-2015, 05:20 PM   #14
Jason in TX
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Default Re: Restoration cost

You can always buy an already restored Model A cheaper than having one restored.

If you watch ebay and know what you are looking at, you can buy a super nice Model A between $12,000 and $20,000 depending on body style.

Pay more at the beginning and only cry once.


A few examples:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Ford-Model-A...-/141709023984

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Ford-Model-A...-/161755232454

http://www.ebay.com/itm/181783021806
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Old 07-06-2015, 05:52 PM   #15
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Default Re: Restoration cost

YUP my CCPU 12K in and very nice truck.... plus 5K more and counting making it a dependable touring vehicle.

Current value.... offered 32K and turned it down.
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Old 07-06-2015, 05:58 PM   #16
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Default Re: Restoration cost

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jason in TX View Post
You can always buy an already restored Model A cheaper than having one restored.

If you watch ebay and know what you are looking at, you can buy a super nice Model A between $12,000 and $20,000 depending on body style.

Pay more at the beginning and only cry once.


A few examples:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Ford-Model-A...-/141709023984

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Ford-Model-A...-/161755232454

http://www.ebay.com/itm/181783021806

None of those cars are in restored show condition... Not impressed at all they are all drivers.
Yes you can buy a freshly properly restored car cheaper I agree but find one.
No marks, scratches, chips, swirls, perfect inside and out, top to bottom, and properly mechanically redone
Good luck

Last edited by Mitch//pa; 07-06-2015 at 06:18 PM.
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Old 07-06-2015, 06:22 PM   #17
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Default Re: Restoration cost

Quote:
Originally Posted by Patrick L. View Post
I'm curious and didn't want to hi-jack a previous thread.

What would you figure the cost would be on a 'correct restoration' that would include doing everything.
Hey Patrick,
Depends on whether you are doing the work (most) or having some others doing the work. If you can do so, that would obviously make a HUGE difference in the cost.
And, it would then depend on the condition of the restoration candidate....whether you do the work or whether others do the work...in other words a total junker would costs thousands more to do than an undamaged , no rust original.

Oh, and I take it to you mean...to RESTORE, not driver/touring/modified condition like most cars available. Big money to have restored by others, as said.

Last edited by hardtimes; 07-06-2015 at 06:26 PM. Reason: ..............
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Old 07-06-2015, 06:57 PM   #18
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Default Re: Restoration cost

Got my 68C (my avatar)for 22k. A really nice rust free super straight car. I have close to that in my e28 sport coupe. Look, they are out there
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Old 07-06-2015, 07:18 PM   #19
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Patrick,
As has been mentioned above it depends on what you have to do.
I am working on a basket case '29 Murray TS.
We are building a "Touring" car to drive and use in parades.

Engine w/ Snyder's HC head, B cam, Leakless Water pump, NuRex Alternator, Counter weights and balance crank, V-8 Clutch, B carb, all new babbit. New pistons, rods & valves. $6800.

Rebuild tranny with new bearings and gears, shift rails, butler chrome shifter. $400
Cast Iron drums $400
Rear end rebuild $1150
LB interior $3200
Wood kits for 3 doors and header, top bows. $1100
Blast frame and body & fenders, splash pans, running boards, wheels. $500
Radiator $693
Glass $700 with shipping.
Mark will be doing my painting (he did Dean's A495). I have no clue what that will be, other than expensive, but worth every penny.
New tires and tubes, metal valve stems. $700
Will have over $400 on nickel plating.

And that's just the big items

Ed
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Old 07-06-2015, 07:18 PM   #20
glenn in camino
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Never count the money. It spoils the fun.
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Old 07-06-2015, 07:20 PM   #21
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Going to cost you a lot MORE than you'll ever get back
As others have said look for one already done or a good presentable driver. JMO

Paul in CT
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Old 07-06-2015, 07:31 PM   #22
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Default Re: Restoration cost

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mitch//pa View Post
Yes a lot of variables but for a good average
I just finished my Tudor which is a national winner. I farmed out the body and paint work but did all the labor myself, assembly and parts, sheet metal, interior, diff gears, tranny, gears, radiator etc....
i have yet to add up the receipts but I'm in the neighborhood of 45-50k without my labor....
The paint and body work costs 15k and that was a special deal...
Figure in labor and holy cow lets see 2000 hours by 75 a cheap rate 150k plus 50 = 200k
I have an agreed value of 80k for insurance which is low
Anyone want to buy it
Yes,,,, would you take $15,000 Ya gotta figure in depreciation...........
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Old 07-06-2015, 07:31 PM   #23
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Default Re: Restoration cost

I just finished a 30 Coupe and had over 1200 hrs in the body and paint restoration. Plus $5000.00 in materials. The complete restoration was $80,000. for a Show driver.
The average ground up restoration works out to about 3000 hrs. plus parts, services like chrome, interior Etc. It's easy to get into $125,000.00. It all comes down to what you want and how much you want to do, or can do yourself.
A Pebble Beach Concourse restoration can start at $750,000.00.

The bottom lines is are you having fun with your car? It comes in many ways.

Here's some pictures of the Coupe.

John Poole
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Old 07-06-2015, 07:39 PM   #24
Barry B./ Ma.
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Hi Patrick, I just went through that in building my 30 standard roadster. I used a new steel body but many other restored parts making it a good reliable driver. I recently sold it and it was a "wash" at around 18K but I did enjoy doing it and had fun driving it for a couple of years. The only outside repair I paid was for the engine, transmission and rear end. Good luck with your project.
Barry B/ Ma.
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Old 07-06-2015, 07:42 PM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mitch//pa View Post
None of those cars are in restored show condition... Not impressed at all they are all drivers.
Yes you can buy a freshly properly restored car cheaper I agree but find one.
No marks, scratches, chips, swirls, perfect inside and out, top to bottom, and properly mechanically redone
Good luck
Very true statement. AND a lot rides on who 'restored' the car. I'm sure at one time we've all gone to look at a 'restored' Model A, Early V-8, Camaro, Mustang, whatever and when we actually saw the car, we thought 'HIS idea of restored don't jive w/ mine I've looked at a number of cars that turned out to be turds, and they promised on the phone they were mint. Sometimes they even look decent in a picture. Had to bite my lip to not insult the guy, and walk away. Thought, well, maybe it does look good to him but I'm not seeing it the same way.

In response to the original post, I'd guess for a '30-'31 Roadster plan on spending at least $70K for a pretty good job w some of the better repop parts. Probably a bit more I don't know???

If you are shooting for a lot of NOS parts it is getting a lot harder to go that route from what I've been reading..........
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Old 07-06-2015, 08:02 PM   #26
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Whatever you do go out and buy the best vehicle you can find as a start. You will save a lot of money in the long run.

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Old 07-06-2015, 08:40 PM   #27
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I know 2 fellas that bought virtually show ready/tour ready cars & spent a mint of time & money, just to get them in shape for an ICE CREAM run!!! There's reasons why some are dumping their cars?????
I try to be HAPPY as a HOG in MUD, with what I have, it's decent (see avatar) will be very reliable, & the Dog loves our new BAR ROOM swivel seats & will like our NASCAR kzhaust system, when running & a QUICK trip to Johnnys' Muffler!! Yes, I'm keeping the stock kzhaust system, for a quick change back, when I git OLD & GRUMPY.
Bill W.
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Old 07-06-2015, 09:08 PM   #28
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I know 2 fellas that bought virtually show ready/tour ready cars & spent a mint of time & money, just to get them in shape for an ICE CREAM run!!! There's reasons why some are dumping their cars?????
I try to be HAPPY as a HOG in MUD, with what I have, it's decent (see avatar) will be very reliable, & the Dog loves our new BAR ROOM swivel seats & will like our NASCAR kzhaust system, when running & a QUICK trip to Johnnys' Muffler!! Yes, I'm keeping the stock kzhaust system, for a quick change back, when I git OLD & GRUMPY.
Bill W.
Very true and look how often we see it happening on the barn
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Old 07-06-2015, 09:22 PM   #29
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Default Re: Restoration cost

[QUOTE=Jason in TX;1116160]You can always buy an already restored Model A cheaper than having one restored.

If you watch ebay and know what you are looking at, you can buy a super nice Model A between $12,000 and $20,000 depending on body style.

Pay more at the beginning and only cry once.


Jason you are so right - I have restored cars and it is a great feeling when they are finished. But so very expensive to do right . The last 4 I have brought have been done by someone else . I'm careful about what I buy and budget on needing to spend about 10% of the purchase price to put little things right. All my cars are drivers which I like to look exactly original. They are much admired but are not fine point cars. I will use a re-pop part if it looks original and works . -Karl
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Old 07-06-2015, 09:46 PM   #30
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It's very discouraging to be reading this thread as a 15 year old entering the Model A hobby and I can see why many people are turned off to go out and purchase a Model A with the intentions of restoring it.

My plans moving forward was to purchase a driver and another that I will restore as the years go by but those dreams seem to be drifting off as it doesn't make any economical sense to restore a Model A. I saw a beautifully restored 1930 tudor that was going for $14,000 OBO... wouldn't it make sense to just negotiate and get this beautiful car for $12,000 maybe even $11,000 instead of spending thousands upon thousands more? Unfortunately the growing lack of interest is continuing to lower the value of these cars and making a restoration less and less worth the time and money.
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Old 07-06-2015, 10:18 PM   #31
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It really depends on what you want. A restored car, or the experience and satisfaction of having "done it yourself".

I think that with most antique/vintage/classic vehicles it is less expensive to buy one that is already restored.

And of course "restored" means different things to different people. To me restored is returning it to what it looked like on the dealer floor or lot when it was new.

I like my old pickup. I have no intention of restoring it, i just want to maintain it as a driver....I really like replacing this, adjusting that and then taking it for a drive to see if it has improved any....it's come a long way, but there is lots more to do.

Randy

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Old 07-06-2015, 10:28 PM   #32
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Glenn is spot on. I got 22K in mine. It's probably worth 12K. But I did get a lot of fun and satisfaction out of it. I have friends in my sportsman club that have that much in Trap guns. Life is short, if you really like it, just do it.
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Old 07-06-2015, 11:55 PM   #33
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Quote:
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It's very discouraging to be reading this thread as a 15 year old entering the Model A hobby and I can see why many people are turned off to go out and purchase a Model A with the intentions of restoring it.
There is nothing like driving a car that you have built yourself.

Quote:
Unfortunately the growing lack of interest is continuing to lower the value of these cars and making a restoration less and less worth the time and money.
Interest in cars come and go. It only takes a film like "The Great Gatsby" or some such to bring about a revival of interest in the 1920's.

If you are interested in travel, go to the "Goodwood Revival" in the UK. No shortage of young people interested in old cars and dressing up in period costume. The locals tell me the cost of old clothes has sky rocketed and even replica prams sell for thousands.
And go to an auction there and see a 1920's Alpha go for millions.

Cars that are currently fully restored and going for a good price are an "opportunity" that hasn't existed in the past.
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Old 07-07-2015, 03:11 AM   #34
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Hopefully Brent will give us a figure as he Is a well respected authority in the restoration " business " ! Wayne

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Old 07-07-2015, 08:03 AM   #35
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Here you go.. For around $34,000 you can get the TWICE MAFCA best in show winner and Award of Excellence winner with a 480 Score... And you didn't throw $80K to $100K at a shop to do it.

Will you take me to lunch for saving you $50,000? Use the money saved to fly to the seller 1st class and drive that beauty home. What an adventure!

http://www.fordbarn.com/forum/showthread.php?t=172823

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Old 07-07-2015, 08:07 AM   #36
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What ever you think it will be times 2.
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Old 07-07-2015, 09:20 AM   #37
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Yes, I guess if you figure that a brand new Lariat Ford pickup w/ all the doodads will be pushing north of $60K, and in a few years that vehicle will be worth a fraction of what you pay,,,,,, I'd spend the $$ on the A and drive a decent used car!
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Old 07-07-2015, 09:23 AM   #38
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From experience, in excess of $50,000.
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Old 07-07-2015, 09:33 AM   #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jason in TX View Post
Here you go.. For around $34,000 you can get the TWICE MAFCA best in show winner and Award of Excellence winner with a 480 Score... And you didn't throw $80K to $100K at a shop to do it.

Will you take me to lunch for saving you $50,000? Use the money saved to fly to the seller 1st class and drive that beauty home. What an adventure!

http://www.fordbarn.com/forum/showthread.php?t=172823

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Hey, that car looks familiar ! It looks more better though and has them thar white walls.
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Old 07-07-2015, 09:34 AM   #40
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It's very discouraging to be reading this thread as a 15 year old entering the Model A hobby and I can see why many people are turned off to go out and purchase a Model A with the intentions of restoring it.

My plans moving forward was to purchase a driver and another that I will restore as the years go by but those dreams seem to be drifting off as it doesn't make any economical sense to restore a Model A. I saw a beautifully restored 1930 tudor that was going for $14,000 OBO... wouldn't it make sense to just negotiate and get this beautiful car for $12,000 maybe even $11,000 instead of spending thousands upon thousands more? Unfortunately the growing lack of interest is continuing to lower the value of these cars and making a restoration less and less worth the time and money.
DJ.S, to answer your question, YES, YES, YES. Find a car YOU like and just drive it. You'll love when someone asks "does it run" or when you discover your dog loves riding in the car as much as you do or when you're asked "have you had it since it was new?"
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Old 07-07-2015, 09:35 AM   #41
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There is nothing like driving a car that you have built yourself.
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Yep !
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Old 07-07-2015, 12:22 PM   #42
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If you have to ask...you can't afford it.
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Old 07-07-2015, 12:28 PM   #43
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Default Re: Restoration cost

I will also say that I got this advice early on when I was looking for my Model A. Don't expect that if you spend a lot that the car will be maintenance free. Even a completely restored car can have surprises. I opted for a $13K car that was poorly restored but not exactly botched. It looked fair and ran pretty well but I have been tinkering since I have owned it. Runs better than it ever has and it has a long way to go to be perfect. But it is reliable and FUN.

Hope you are not discouraged because this is a great hobby and the support is fantastic.
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Old 07-07-2015, 12:37 PM   #44
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I don't want to know. All I know is that you can throw hundred dollars bills at it and it catches everyone and wants more. I did a frame off on a 1930 deluxe ,side mount , rumble seat roaster. Now I am building a 1931 boatail speedster from the ground up . It's a hobby and if you have one why not two. No way I will get my money back . For me it's the joy of doing it. Good luck and enjoy. Miff
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Old 07-07-2015, 12:39 PM   #45
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Like miff says...... and besides when you get old the lawyers and medical industry takes all of what you worked your entire life for anyway, if your health goes bad.

Best to die broke like when you first came here!
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Old 07-07-2015, 12:49 PM   #46
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Old 07-07-2015, 01:16 PM   #47
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I am probably one of the few guys here who has no desire to restore a Model A, but my hat's off to all of you who do! I am also one of the few to go out, find, and buy, a very nicely restored and correct 1930 Town Sedan. The seller did all the work himself, except the engine and paint. After I bought the car, he was nice enough to send me all the receipts. One night, for fun, I went through and added them up.....the total was far more than I paid for the car, and he had spent nearly 10 years on it. After 8 years, and driving it several times a week, and on several tours, the only money I have spent on it has been for upgrades, such as HC head and Mitchell OD.....it was re-built and restored properly....not fine point, but very nicely. The point is, for those of you who do not aspire to restore, it is possible to find a very nice, properly restored car for far less than restoring one yourself. You just need to look very carefully and choose wisely!
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Old 07-07-2015, 02:35 PM   #48
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To ALL,
That Phaeton has a BEAUTIFUL engine room! Whatever your car's like, even a ROOKIE, with careful preparation, masking, painting, etc, can have an ENGINE & COMPARTMENT, that looks that GOOD! I've seen "SPRAY CAN" firewalls, that RIVALS the FACTORY NEW look! AND, spray can wheels, that are mistakened for POWDER COATED !
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Old 07-07-2015, 02:49 PM   #49
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Wow my project has cost me around $ 5000 so far I think with a lot of horse trading and another $ 5000 should have me driving to town I hope . I have a drawer full of receipts for small parts maybe when I add it all up I'll be shocked . I need glass / upholstery / And Bumpers maybe some different rear fenders . Engine work is done I hope and I'm working on the brakes . All paint and body and assembly will be by me .
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Old 07-08-2015, 12:29 AM   #50
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I searched, and finally bought a '31 town sedan so that I could work on it, restore it to my judging standards, not others, and I needed another project car to keep me busy, I'm almost done with my '57.
It's not about the money or time, it's all about the pleasure of the work...and of course...the driving.
With any luck I'll have a few more years of work on my A before it's done.
After that...I'll have to get a bigger garage<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
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Old 07-09-2015, 08:57 PM   #51
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Wink Re: Restoration cost

Here's a different way to look at it. My father in-law loved to golf. I figured over 40 years he spend 300,000.00. He enjoyed his hobby. At the end he tried to sell his clubs. Couldn't get $65.00 at the garage sale. But he enjoyed what he did.

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Old 07-09-2015, 09:32 PM   #52
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DJS, here is another thing to consider in the form of a very short story.

Just prior to being diagnosed with colon cancer at the age of 36 I had bought my delivery body, procured a chassis and most of the major parts and had it all bolted together. I got it running afew days before my surgery while I was in bad shape physicly and likely not much better mentally at the time. It was a good feeling at a highly stressful time.

After my surgery many friends and family stopped by. For most of them it was amusing that here I was looking at a bleak and possibly short future, but I had to take them to the garage and fire it up for them. My uncle looked at it all bolted together in its rusty condition and was in shock when it fired up within 2 revolutions with the starter. If for not having the A and having plans for it in the future I may have given up at some point while doing chemo and radiation. What is that worth in dollars? Rod
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Old 07-09-2015, 09:50 PM   #53
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Here's a different way to look at it. My father in-law loved to golf. I figured over 40 years he spend 300,000.00. He enjoyed his hobby. At the end he tried to sell his clubs. Couldn't get $65.00 at the garage sale. But he enjoyed what he did.

John Poole
I could not agree with you more! We read here about people sweating over "did I pay too much". They forget the years of enjoyment ahead of them.

If you are restoring an A for profit 98% of the time you will lose.
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Old 07-10-2015, 07:39 AM   #54
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Here's a different way to look at it. My father in-law loved to golf. I figured over 40 years he spend 300,000.00. He enjoyed his hobby. At the end he tried to sell his clubs. Couldn't get $65.00 at the garage sale. But he enjoyed what he did.

John Poole
Heh John. At $7500 a year he played some pretty nice courses! Wayne
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Old 07-10-2015, 07:46 AM   #55
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Heh John. At $7500 a year he played some pretty nice courses! Wayne
But, that includes scenic beauty and wild life fun
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Old 07-10-2015, 10:43 AM   #56
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Heh John. At $7500 a year he played some pretty nice courses! Wayne
The way I play golf, someone needs to remember to factor in at least a 12-pack of balls & tees for each round I play.

Heck, the last I heard, a 12-pack of Titleists were over $30.00 now. Better add in the price of owning a cart too, and the battery maintenance that goes with owing one. Tournament fees factor in too.

Some might suggest fishing as an alternative hobby, ....but the last I checked, Cabelas & Bass Pro were raking in the profits off of their Sportsmen customers. Buy a boat and all the gear to go fishing and see how much that costs. Sell those items a few years down the road and see what you lost.



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I'm curious and didn't want to hi-jack a previous thread.

What would you figure the cost would be on a 'correct restoration' that would include doing everything.
I have purposely stayed out of this to read other's thoughts but ironically I have been working on a magazine article ( -which I may just produce a video instead) outlining just what is involved and the $$ associated with doing a restoration. The costs really are not as great as one would think in my opinion however the educational expenses for the Restorer is where the money is spent.
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Old 07-10-2015, 10:48 AM   #57
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I have way more invested in my '31 Model A pickup than I do in my Lincoln Aviator.
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Old 07-10-2015, 12:56 PM   #58
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It's not an investment to make a profit, it's a "fee" for living.
Small price to pay for the enjoyment returned.
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Old 07-10-2015, 01:55 PM   #59
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The way I play golf, someone needs to remember to factor in at least a 12-pack of balls & tees for each round I play.

Heck, the last I heard, a 12-pack of Titleists were over $30.00 now. Better add in the price of owning a cart too, and the battery maintenance that goes with owing one. Tournament fees factor in too.

Some might suggest fishing as an alternative hobby, ....but the last I checked, Cabelas & Bass Pro were raking in the profits off of their Sportsmen customers. Buy a boat and all the gear to go fishing and see how much that costs. Sell those items a few years down the road and see what you lost.
I've never been able to find a 'cheap or inexpensive' hobby. Maybe walking around the block but really nice shoes can run a couple hundred bucks. Besides that is boring.

It all depends on what and how much you get into it. I used to do a lot of competition high power rifle shooting. Politics aside, lately THAT is pretty expensive even doing your own cartridge reloading. Big Govt. trying to make it too expensive, guns and ammo both, to make them go away. Same w/ trap shooting I'm told.

I dabbled in coins some as a youth. Price of rare coins today is thru the roof! Silver dollars that used to sit on the counter of the local coin shop in a bowl for 5 and 6 bucks take your pick, in the 1990's are 30 bucks each and up now. Good Morgans run double and triple that and over $500 for decent Carson City mint dollars. Plus VERY very good Chinese fake coins are flooding the western world, fooling even the experts. Buyer beware.

Petroliana---- globes -pumps -signs way high compared to 20-25 years or so ago

A buddy dumped his Studebaker last year said 'I'm done w/ old cars' and got into bicycles. What ever floats your boat but the other day he was quoting prices of the better bikes and WOW they were some serious coin. Not cheap and he did admit lousy resale value after you owned them awhile. And that's to ride a bicycle. Boring.

Heck, my neighbor lady has collected cookie jars of all things since the 60's, and she tells me what THEY cost today to get into that hobby. Yikes

Friend from high school fishes. Serious bass fisherman. We won't get into that. Big money also. BIG money the way he goes at it.

SO, the days of 'cheap' anything are gone. I only hear 'good' things from the people who are selling and they comment 'do you believe THAT? I wouldn't have paid that for (whatever) but I love selling it.'

If you like it and enjoy it pony up the money and don't look back Time is going by pretty fast none of us will be around all that long here anyway. And besides, it's hard to 'fake' a Model A Ford!!
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Old 07-10-2015, 02:05 PM   #60
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Minerva was a 1996 "restoration" of an Early '30 Std. Coupe, I refined her "restoration", drove her for 8 years, put LOTS of miles on her & almost doubled my investment! ---(NOT counting my labor, of course.)
The only sublet work was painting her lower body stuff & fixin' a L/F fender that I "buggered" up myself!
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Old 07-10-2015, 03:33 PM   #61
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Quote:
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I have way more invested in my '31 Model A pickup than I do in my Lincoln Aviator.
Quote:
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It's not an investment to make a profit, it's a "fee" for living.
Small price to pay for the enjoyment returned.
I wasn't speaking of an investment to make a profit, just the price tag.

And I should have added: "And it's still less than what my wife has "spent" on her quilting / sewing machines. Her sewing room looks like a Pfaff dealer's showroom!
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Old 07-10-2015, 04:33 PM   #62
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I wasn't speaking of an investment to make a profit, just the price tag.

And I should have added: "And it's still less than what my wife has "spent" on her quilting / sewing machines. Her sewing room looks like a Pfaff dealer's showroom!
I feel your pain! Below you see about $16K!
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Old 07-10-2015, 05:02 PM   #63
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Wish Pat were still here, so I could "BLOW MONEY ON HER"!!!
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Old 07-10-2015, 09:13 PM   #64
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So in my books it comes down to enjoy and spend what you can afford to have a good time.

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Old 07-11-2015, 07:48 AM   #65
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Thank God, I was stupid and didn't know what I was getting into! I don't mean work and money so much, I mean FRUSTRATION! Like my latest obstacle, The wiper hole in the windshield and that trim? piece under the visor, don't line line up. Who knew they were different? So anyway, $1500 for the car, $5000 +to Schwalms for the engine. $1800 to Classic wood for sills etc, $350 to rebuild the rear. $350 + for paint PPG. $ 400 for new fenders Another $2000 for Tires, Radiator, Rims etc etc etc! Heck, maybe it's 3 or 4000$$$ Throw in welding supplies, spray cans of paint, nuts and bolts, more etc. And again, It's not the costs, it's the frustration! Like buying a pretty nice fender at a good price , doing some work on it, then finding out it's a 29 fender (Rear sedan) Not a 30.
On it goes, Marching unstoppably towards completion....Someday!
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Old 07-11-2015, 08:08 AM   #66
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Wish Pat were still here, so I could "BLOW MONEY ON HER"!!!
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Old 07-11-2015, 08:59 PM   #67
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Thank God, I was stupid and didn't know what I was getting into! I don't mean work and money so much, I mean FRUSTRATION! Like my latest obstacle, The wiper hole in the windshield and that trim? piece under the visor, don't line line up. Who knew they were different? So anyway, $1500 for the car, $5000 +to Schwalms for the engine. $1800 to Classic wood for sills etc, $350 to rebuild the rear. $350 + for paint PPG. $ 400 for new fenders Another $2000 for Tires, Radiator, Rims etc etc etc! Heck, maybe it's 3 or 4000$$$ Throw in welding supplies, spray cans of paint, nuts and bolts, more etc. And again, It's not the costs, it's the frustration! Like buying a pretty nice fender at a good price , doing some work on it, then finding out it's a 29 fender (Rear sedan) Not a 30.
On it goes, Marching unstoppably towards completion....Someday!
Terry

So where did you get "Fenders" for $400?
I'm in need of some front for my '31
Come on...be a good Joe...where ya get'm?
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Old 07-12-2015, 09:13 AM   #68
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It's pretty much a given, you'll never get out what you put in. Like so many have said, it's not about the money. You're restoring a piece of Americana.
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Old 07-12-2015, 10:40 AM   #69
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Default Re: Restoration cost

I'll give my usual outlook now. It's not as expensive as "getting a deal" then having to take to someone to fix. I hate more than words can say following hack work, then having to "worry" about the client's previous expense before I ever knew them. Guess what, I haven't had that worry for decades because I didn't see any of that lost $$$$$ on garbage work. We in the business work time and material. There's not now and never will be a book rate to restore a vintage vehicle. Nobody has x-ray vision, the ability to see the future, a secret stash of NOS parts that they sell at 50s prices, or any other means to treat the casual enthusiast to a show winning car that does everything perfect for even nickels on the dollar. Any angst about the cost of a restoration is better directed at the petroleum industry. It's amazing how many supplies and sundry items use petroleum to produce as part of their content. In the early to mid 90s nearly every vintage or specialty car magazine out there had articles telling prospective new owners how stupid they were to buy and restore a car. Anyone remember those? I do, I was in the business then too. Tech stocks were a better place to play with 6 figures instead of a significant car then as well. How many remember that, or indeed became well off because of them?

I love what I do and have been at it for the better part of 43 years. I can be glad that I hide from nobody, proudly show up and enjoy any swap meet or car show, the only down side being that "senior moments" sometimes inhibit my ability to remember someone's name. I remember their cars 1st so it's not all bad. Yesterday one of my true friends in the game was showing his car for judging, a car completed in 2010. 99.5 points out of 100, and it was a scratch on the garnish molding between the glass and the back side that 2 judges were able to see, the other 2 missed it. We had an erratic window gig and simply didn't have the opportunity to take it off and fix it. to lose a 1/2 point, no big deal. It still runs and drives and looks like the day it was done, still wins a 1st, and he probably has as much in it as a late model Bentley. I'd bet a Model A that the Bentley is worth as much as 50% of it's purchase price in 2010, but I'd also bet that he could see more than 75% of his expense if not more for his car. And isn't that a wake up call too? How much is new Fusion? What's it worth 5-10yrs later?

At the national average custom shop rate of $75/hr, you're all correct that it's expensive to have a pro make your car new again. And the parts, just look at the price of a new set of shocks for our "simple" Model A Ford examples. I've bought Packard shocks for less! What do you want? A "new" Model A? A driver? A worn out but usable barn find? A sloppy restored bondo buggy? And last but not least, I'll forever be confused at how little respect the finishing end of this trade gets. TV has only made it worse too. I never understood why the one thing that will IMMEDIATELY set the tone for the car is more often the 1 thing that prospective clients don't want to spend on. The cost of paint related materials alone has gone up in triple-digit percentages over the last 7-10yrs. Sometimes I'll let the client go buy it so they can see how much it is. And that cheap Dupli-Rustoleum-"Johnny's Discount Urethane"-who knows what's in it paint? Not in my shop. Not when I have to stand behind the work. Can you buy a done car cheap? Sometimes. Do really know how well it was done? Only if you watched the seller restore it or have that x-ray vision I mentioned earlier. Beware the "mudslinger" when you're buying one done or even that low buy-in will cost you big later. I'll freely answer any questions one has regarding having one done buy a pro. I won't tell folks how to do what I do, that's just dumb. I will help where it can sincerely be applied though. I always have. Good luck, and for goodness sake, spend it if you want it. We're not investment counselors, we're craftsmen, many of whom will always have your best interest at heart.
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