Factory Black paint mismatch

[gdmn852]

Hello, this is basically a hard question to answer, as few cars still have original paint, but would there have been a slight color difference between the Black enamel fenders and black Lacquer finished bodies? The gloss would probably be different, lacquer dulled down with out polishing.And has anyone building up a restoration for show replicated a possible difference?One reason I asked this is a friend of mine had a nice original 1939 Oldsmobile, that must have be damaged rear fender and deck lid showing repair work,and under some lighting conditions the repair area was more of a gray shade than rest of body . Could be due to factory paint and aftermarket repair. Thank you.

[chrs1961815]

Not so much the color as to the differing rates at which the enamel and laquer oxidized. Different gloss levels can give the illusion of different shades when there really isn't. Not saying that the paint wasn't slightly different but it was probably pretty close. The lacquer most definetely faded quicker than the enamel, but from the factory there probably was no difference until months down the road.

[Phil Brown]

All true above but also black can be hard to match, some blacks have a lot of brown in them then some are more grayish. They all look black till you put them side by side. Cant remember how many times I've heard black's black right ?

[ModelA29]

I "heard" years ago (1960s) that basically enamel faded deeply and could not be polished back to it's original shine and shade but lacquer only oxidized on the surface and could be polished back to it's original gloss and color. This would have been for early enamels not acrylic with hardener and the old nitro cellulose lacquers.

[dave in australia]

Highly possible, as even on modern cars, there is a colour mismatch between bumpers and main body panels.

[BRENT in 10-uh-C]

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Originally Posted by gdmn852

Hello, this is basically a hard question to answer, as few cars still have original paint, but would there have been a slight color difference between the Black enamel fenders and black Lacquer finished bodies? The gloss would probably be different, lacquer dulled down with out polishing.And has anyone building up a restoration for show replicated a possible difference?One reason I asked this is a friend of mine had a nice original 1939 Oldsmobile, that must have be damaged rear fender and deck lid showing repair work,and under some lighting conditions the repair area was more of a gray shade than rest of body . Could be due to factory paint and aftermarket repair. Thank you.

Something that is often misunderstood about Fine Point adjudication is the RG&JS Book does not specify exactly how each vehicle was manufactured, ...but is about giving the benchmark by which it will be evaluated. A great example would be engine castings, -and/or Cadmium plating. The RG&JS book states that all engine castings paint should match. While I have never read it in the book, there is a new feeling in judging that states all Cadmium plating on the entire vehicle should match. In reality, that never happened because of outside vendors supplying finished parts, ...however you will likely receive a deduction in competition if the color, sheen, and texture of the hose clamps do not match the cut-out cover and the starter switch. The same applies with brake light switches, the headlight switch, etc. So to directly answer your question, it would not be in anyone's best interest to replicate a possible difference in color of sheetmetal items that should be the same painted color.

To answer your question about Black Body vs. Fender color differences, ....originally yes there was a hue difference. The types of pigments, toners used, and the binders would cause this. In adjudication today, this is not addressed in the RG&JS book so someone that tries to replicate this would possibly have a 50/50 chance of receiving a slight deduction in competition if they had not discussed this beforehand and received a Variance from the JSC for that show.

[Model "A" Fords]

When looking at paint finishes, light conditions can show differently. A color inside a building can look odd but when viewed outside can look good. I don't remember how it works but do recall being told to view colors and finishes under natural lighting.
Years back I compared the original paint from under the dash panel to the Model A color chart. When I took the tank from home to work I noticed a different look. I heard about a test that could match to an existing color bank so I bought a sample but it didn't look correct. I put it aside with only a name Classic Blue associated with the stores color bank.
Years later a list of Canadian colors surfaced with only names and no samples. Since Classic blue was listed I went back to the store and found that color wasn't listed any more. On line I searched Classic Blue and a place listed it in a 1930 source. I ordered a sample and dabbed the tank while outside for a perfect match.
Natural daylight works better than artificial lighting and I would have been done years ago if I had known that.

[gdmn852]

Hello again , thanks for all the replies . I have several paint chip colors from the 1930s and 40,s and on a number of them they mentioned if using lacquer on enamel or vice versa , don’t expect color match on a repair job ,being different chemical composition, similar to Model A enamel fenders and lacquer bodies. Often wonder just how good panel fits , die work on sheet metal, etc. was when these cars were new , not advocating shoddy restoration s, but perhaps a good correct restoration might produce a car better than new.

[Brokenvette]

All the quality restorations today I believe produce better than new appearances due to modern paints. Old lacquer paint jobs of the exact same color could vary do to paint gun pressures. Could be lighter or darker depending on where or whom was painting.