Engine temp rises when I get to cruise speed

[jrvariel48]

KiWinUS and Ronnieroadster.
I agree 100% that I'm just chasing my tail at this point. I will however do as B&S suggested and richen up the mix and remove the shrouded fan. It may take some time to do this because it's not just 4 bolts as Lee mentioned. The grille needs to come off again and that's a pain in the a$$ all by itself. The fit of the puller is that tight. After I figure out how to get some kind of fan on there, the grille needs to be reinstalled so that the lower pan is in place for proper testing.
Brassworks.
Lee I don't know why you have a problem with the coolant mix I'm using. I'm simply trying everything I can to find the source of the problem.
I also refuse to run two fans to find that problem. There's no reason this system shouldn't work properly with one fan.

[Ken Henry]

Any chance you are seeping combustion chamber gas into the coolant? I’ve always suspected this in my 51 stock system because it will climb at idle and 3000 rpm cruise. I added an overdrive years ago and it no longer heats up in the highway (~2000 rpm now). Ken

[AnthonyG]

Bol

[jrvariel48]

Originally Posted by Ken Henry

Any chance you are seeping combustion chamber gas into the coolant? I’ve always suspected this in my 51 stock system because it will climb at idle and 3000 rpm cruise. I added an overdrive years ago and it no longer heats up in the highway (~2000 rpm now). Ken

I tried the liquid tester to check that and it came up clean
Good call though! Thanks Joe

[jrvariel48]

Lee emailed me and said he's not coming back on the forum. He sent me a list of things to try.
Here's what he said:

One change at a time. Get a note pad and log results under various conditions after making one change before you make the next change.
What's relevant is the temperature in and out and I saw you bought an inline gauge.
The highway and off ramp temps are what I would want to see most.
Log the date, air temp, gauge temps (at idle, 10-20, 30-40, 50-60), distances traveled at respective speeds and any changes observed within those speeds.
The cooling components fan claims 2,500. You spent money on this product so use it.

That shroud is trapping air at higher speeds and then not recovering I am not sure its the root cause but its not helping and your description sounds like trapped air flow and heat soak
Remove the shroud. In this scaled illustration the black is flush against the core and in the grey area, the air has to pass in a ~7/8” gap around the ~1” solid ring supporting the blades. Your temps are okay around town but climb on the highway this will help on the highway and you'll have to see how it does around town. You may be able to run one fan

If that reduces your temperatures enough for highway and town, then stop. If it gets you lower and you still want more, then put the SPAL pusher back on in an offset position. The yellow gives you 1,959 cfm. The green claims 2,500 cfm, the blue area is the combined cfm (not literally). This will help on the highway and this will help it recover (from what I hope is an already lower than 205 temperature from getting rid of that molded plastic).


The only other suggestion I would make is two SPAL fans. I would NOT go this route I tested step 3 and step 4 because of the incremental cost

they're better quality.
the combined stated cfm is lower than the two you have now but I believe it to be closer to reality.

the motors have smaller diameters to impede air and the vanes and finger guards block less air than the flex lite you had and the cooling components you bought.


I recall you said the hoses had not collapsed. Check your coolant flow with thermostats open and higher rpm. If its not pumping enough you may want to check your pump impellers condition and design. The guys who mentioned the fallacy of fluid too fast are correct - there is no such thing. The oe pumps used cast impellers. The casting is thick and they have a reduced eye which results in reduced volume. The vanes are not tall and this too reduces the flow. I have seen worn vanes and you should look for evidence of cavitation e.g. pitting and tip wear if you don't have flow.
Regarding your coolant composition.

Water has the best specific heat value to shed heat.

Ethylene glycol and propylene glycol have engine preservation properties and raises boiling point but lower specific heat. Specific heat is the amount of heat required to change the temperature of a mass unit of a substance by one degree.

You're using 20/80 propylene glycol at 328' elevation and have a 7psi cap I expect you'll boil at 233 deg. You are running at 205 on the highway so boiling is not a concern but specific heat is.

Tap water may have minerals and create scale so use a premix or distilled water.

[jrvariel48]

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I'm going to entertain his list up to the point of running two fans. I'll remove the shroud and remount the puller fan. I don't have great faith in this because of the previous pusher fans I had that didn't get the job done. I'll incorporate B&S's idea and change main jets. This is going to take a bit to get done, but I'll try it.
As Ronnieroadster said having a temperature of 180* just sitting in the driveway is not good.
I don't know what Lee's plan is if nothing works and I think he's going to screw me over if I don't want to try the two fan theory. I doubt very much that he'll give me a refund, etc.
If that's the case, out comes the Brassworks radiator. I have a great shop close to home that could probably redo the core for me. More $$$$$

[Ziggster]

I haven’t read every post, but I would have ditched that radiator a while back. I had my OE redone at a local rad shop for my other OT project, and they botched it bad as far as the soldering job. They were highly rated on FB, so I figure a no brainer. Brought it back, owner agreed and it was only slightly better. Said I could have done a better job and just walked out. Feel it was a $600 total waste of money and wished I would have spent it on a quality aluminum aftermarket one (Wizard Cooling made in USA).

[jrvariel48]

I hear what you’re saying but at this point I have a lot of money and time in this and I feel I have to see it through for the sake of process of elimination. I asked the builder what if all this doesn’t work out? Will you give me a full refund or credit towards a local shop repair?
He hasn’t yet

[Tony, NY]

I had a custom radiator built by Custom Auto Radiator in New Jersey, for my off topic car with a 500 cu in. Caddy. Four inch core. Works very good. Has a puller fan. https://www.customautoradiator.com/

[Bored&Stroked]

I like your plan Joe - at least it will let you determine if overall cruise airflow is an issue, or radiator cooling capacity. We can guess all we want - your systematic changes and the results should give you what you need to make decisions.

I wish you the best of luck!
B&S

[jrvariel48]

Originally Posted by Tony, NY

I had a custom radiator built by Custom Auto Radiator in New Jersey, for my off topic car with a 500 cu in. Caddy. Four inch core. Works very good. Has a puller fan. https://www.customautoradiator.com/

That's where ronnieroadster has his built and was very happy from what heb said. I actually got a quote from them today.

[jrvariel48]

Originally Posted by Bored&Stroked

I like your plan Joe - at least it will let you determine if overall cruise airflow is an issue, or radiator cooling capacity. We can guess all we want - your systematic changes and the results should give you what you need to make decisions.

I wish you the best of luck!
B&S

I have to at least try! The grille has been off so many times in the past few weeks, what's a couple more!

[jrvariel48]

I spoke to Lee today. He's claiming that because I said I had no room for a puller fan they assumed I wanted a 3 core radiator. I bit my tongue because that's the type of person I am. He also said he's offering solutions that I don't want to try so he's basically washing his hands of me. One of his solutions is a puller and a pusher. I'm not running two fans.
I told him I would try removing the shroud and report back to him. I doubt this will do much after a Spal pusher fan didn't work. I'm not a quitter so I'll try it out

He also said I should check the water pumps for proper flow. The only way I was able to do that was when I had the filler funnel on the filler neck. When I gave it gas it pushed the coolant out. The pumps were new Speedway pumps. Anyone want to comment on them??
I can certainly pull one off to see what it looks like

[jrvariel48]

I took it upon myself to call Cooling Components the makers of my shrouded fan and told them a radiator vendor told me to remove it because it was trapping air. He immediately said are you only having trouble at high speed? Of course, I answered yes!
He told me to cut the top flange down to about an 1/8" and move the shroud directly under the tank. He also told me to trim the bottom of the shroud past the flange and into the taper part of the shroud. He said that being open on the bottom would now act as a vent at higher speeds. I have to try this and see what happens

[Ziggster]

I thought I had purchased Drake pumps, but in fact had purchased ones from Speedway. Curious to see as well what others have to say after the thread on Skip’s pumps. I just hope like hell I never experience an overheating issue.

[40cpe]

jrvariel48, I have two thoughts for you to evaluate: 1) if your pumps weren't producing flow, I think water would stay in the radiator longer and cool more than the 7 degrees you are measuring. Also, they wouldn't push water out when the engine is rev'd. 2) If you cut your shroud, your fan might draw some air through the cuts instead of through the radiator and might not be effective at idle or cruise. I wouldn't cut it until removing it proved it beneficial to cooling at cruise speeds.

[cadillac512]

Joe-
The Speedway pumps are working perfectly on my 260" Merc. I run a recored stock radiator in a '41 Merc and it runs down the road 60 mph at 190 degrees on a 100 degree day (104 here today). 50/50 green ethylene glycol coolant , stock 4 blade crank mounted fan. It'll get to 200 sitting at idle in a drive - through line but never loses any coolant, and I run a non pressurized cap with no recovery bottle.



Terry

[Tinker]

Terry this guy is running a blower and maybe it's been addressed.... your bore?

Being it cools down after highway runs at low or idle? Might be a flow issue...

I'd ditch the thermostats. Turbulence for no reason. Less you take this beast out in winter months.


Bummer they don't want to work with you to figure this out. Just makes a better rad.


Best of luck!!!

[jrvariel48]

Originally Posted by Ziggster

I thought I had purchased Drake pumps, but in fact had purchased ones from Speedway. Curious to see as well what others have to say after the thread on Skip’s pumps. I just hope like hell I never experience an overheating issue.

How long have you had the Speedway pumps? I' guessing no problems?

Yes, cooling problems are not fun!!

[jrvariel48]

Originally Posted by 40cpe

jrvariel48, I have two thoughts for you to evaluate: 1) if your pumps weren't producing flow, I think water would stay in the radiator longer and cool more than the 7 degrees you are measuring. Also, they wouldn't push water out when the engine is rev'd. 2) If you cut your shroud, your fan might draw some air through the cuts instead of through the radiator and might not be effective at idle or cruise. I wouldn't cut it until removing it proved it beneficial to cooling at cruise speeds.

I agree with the pumps working, I think my flow is fine.

As far as the shroud goes, the fan and shroud were designed together so we're not exactly sure how the fan will work without the shroud.
I figured I'll try cutting first because the shroud at this point is not returnable anyway. Let's see what happens