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Old 12-27-2021, 12:15 AM   #1
toyflyr
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Default Packard 3 speed to 8BA

This is my first post on the Ford Barn. I’ve searched and read for several years but have been quiet in the corner of the barn. My history with flatheads is I built an 8BA for a Lakester in 2001 and in 2003 we set records in XFGL and XFFL at Bonneville. 284 cube, homemade manifold with a Brazwell 650 carb, Danny Crower cam with Johnsons, 6.8 compression, had the ports extrude honed after shaping them. We used nitrous for the fuel record. Set at 196.5 mph on gas and 207.15 mph on fuel and they are still in the books under Tracer Racing Modesto California. I fell in love with flatheads then and there. Making it stay together on the long course for over a minute at 5500 rpm and not fall off was a challenge.
I acquired a 31 coupe 16 years ago and started collecting part to build a highboy coupe. 2 years ago I started working it seriously, chopping 3 1/2 inches. I stretched it 6 inches and capped it. Of course it will has an 8BA in front. Champ quick change in the back and intentions to put a Packard 3 speed top shift with an R11 overdrive on it.
If I haven’t lost you by now with my babbling, my question to the forum is I am wondering about adapting the Packard. I’ve got a 53 truck bell housing and a aluminum adapter plate from Patrick at Wilcap (several years ago,probably 15 years) that fits both the trans and the bell housing. With out any clutch parts in and mounted to the engine, the trans input is 1 inch from the pilot and it seems like the splines may not penetrate the disc much ( I haven’t got a disc for it yet).
I know that this was a good swap years ago but don’t know if anybody has done it lately and has any advice as to which parts they used or made.
It is extremely unlikely that there is a direct bell housing made for this swap although there used to be.
I also have a iron ring and starter plate probably Mercury, instead of the 53truck, along with a aluminum hogs head. It measures the same depth as the 53 bell.

Any help or advice?
Terry Lucas
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Old 12-27-2021, 01:54 AM   #2
cas3
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Default Re: Packard 3 speed to 8BA

Sounds like an interesting project, but the basics are your trans is too far back if you dont even reach the pilot bearing. You knew that already, so the obvious is what is the depth of the bellhousing, and what is the depth of the adapter, and what is the length of the input shaft? That equation must be solved first. I am not an 8ba guy, but are there different depths available? The steel ones could easily be cut and welded to the required depth. sometimes we gotta do what it takes. In my foolish youth, I put a volvo trans behind a datsun 240z, in my 38 chevy. To do this, I grabbed the sawzall in the vise, shimmed up the bells with plywood, cut both bells, mounted one on the trans, and one on the motor, took it to my friend the tig welder, and I straddled the unit, wiggled it around until it felt like the center, and said "thats it, weld it". Not what I would do today, but in 1980 it ran coast to coast for many years, still on the road today at a different owner. Again, you have the measurements, do what you gotta do
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Old 12-27-2021, 08:10 AM   #3
deuce5wndw
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Default Re: Packard 3 speed to 8BA

I agree with cas3 the stamped steel bell from the 49-50 would solve your problem. Easy to weld and machine to get your transmission installed.
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Old 12-27-2021, 08:15 AM   #4
chuck stevens
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Default Re: Packard 3 speed to 8BA

Terry, I have a 31 A roadster with an 8BA and a GM saginaw 4 speed. I went through the same thing you are. The GM trans had an input shaft longer than the fords so the adapter made up the difference, the front seal-throw bearing mount is bolted to the adapter, and one of the bellhousing bolts had to be counter sunk in the adapter. The only thing that's a little strange is, the trans and the bell housing have to be assembled and installed as one unit, like an auto trans. I have a ton of miles on this set-up and haven't broken it yet. I went with a 9" diff..... overkill.
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Old 12-27-2021, 09:22 AM   #5
Bored&Stroked
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Default Re: Packard 3 speed to 8BA

I can't say that hacking a stamped steel bell-housing is a "fix" - as one has to figure out if there are any other issues with the clutch plate and potentially interference with whatever bell-housing you have. Also, obviously a clutch release mechanism has to fit in the package and work . . .

You'll have to mock it up and then determine what potential actions will work (hopefully).
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Old 12-27-2021, 09:46 AM   #6
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Default Re: Packard 3 speed to 8BA

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Please post some pics when you have it figured out. Going with a smaller clutch will give you more room in the bellhousing.
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Old 12-27-2021, 02:16 PM   #7
toyflyr
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Default Re: Packard 3 speed to 8BA

I worked Volvos for a living and know the m40 and 41’s with OD were strong gearboxes. Interesting puttin it on a 240z motor.
I’m considering a 49-53 stamped bell.
Thanks for your reply
Terry
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Old 12-27-2021, 02:26 PM   #8
toyflyr
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Default Re: Packard 3 speed to 8BA

Cas3 is correct about mock up and find the solution. Deuce5window’s suggestion using a stamp is logical for the distance so I appreciate the response of all. I don’t have much experience with forums except to loiter around looking at other people getting advice for their projects.
Thank you guys and I’ll post some pics of the solution. The 31 is shaping up to be what my dad would have built in early 50’s
Terry
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Old 12-27-2021, 02:31 PM   #9
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Default Re: Packard 3 speed to 8BA

Had to check I was not reading the HAMB by accident.
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Old 12-27-2021, 02:34 PM   #10
toyflyr
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Default Re: Packard 3 speed to 8BA

Thank you Bored&Stroked ! I should mock it all up and cover the bases like you said to make sure of any interference problems. Steel bell may be part of the answer. Thanks for your consideration
Terry
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Old 12-27-2021, 03:05 PM   #11
toyflyr
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Default Re: Packard 3 speed to 8BA

My4dv8
I’ll be more tuned to where I should post problems like this in the future.
I do appreciate you guys
Thanks
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Old 01-08-2022, 07:28 PM   #12
toyflyr
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Default Re: Packard 3 speed to 8BA

Frank Miller
I mocked up the stamped bell with the 38 packard junior trans and found I will add a 1/2 inch adapter ( spacer really). It will locate off the original bore in mouth of the bell housing. I machined a sleeve for the packard snout to use a ford release bearing. Lots of room for the big clutch long style and the packard is a 10 spline 1.125 so someone mentioned Chevy disc and he is right I’m pretty sure. When I get it cleaned up and on the mill I’ll take some pictures and post like you ask.
Thanks again
Terry Lucas
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Old 01-08-2022, 09:01 PM   #13
Ol' Ron
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Default Re: Packard 3 speed to 8BA

My Favorite go to pressure plate is the ford 9 1/2, And re drill the flywheel if necessary. Never had a problem with one, even in drag racing.
Gramps
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Old 01-08-2022, 09:14 PM   #14
Nailhead Jeff
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Default Re: Packard 3 speed to 8BA

If your going to modify a Ford bellhousing get a 52-53 cast bell housing. The 49-51 stamped steel mounts the trans and starter plate at an angle.
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Old 01-09-2022, 08:44 AM   #15
V8 Bob
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Default Re: Packard 3 speed to 8BA

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nailhead Jeff View Post
If your going to modify a Ford bellhousing get a 52-53 cast bell housing. The 49-51 stamped steel mounts the trans and starter plate at an angle.

The '49-'51 stamped steel bell is angled at the bottom, but mounts the trans level, the same as the later cast iron bell. The unique '49-'51 angled starter plate matches the lower bell housing angle to keep the starter parallel to the crank.

Last edited by V8 Bob; 01-09-2022 at 10:40 AM.
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Old 01-10-2022, 08:22 AM   #16
Ol' Ron
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Default Re: Packard 3 speed to 8BA

I use the steel housing to adapt the T-170 and the Toyota 5 speed. Bore the regester to match and weld on the mounts use stock clutch linkage and throw out. bearing, About as simple as it gets..
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