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08-07-2021, 07:19 PM | #1 |
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Join Date: Apr 2015
Location: Olga, WA
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Knock/Bearing Bits
Hello folks,
Trudy developed an engine noise that met Les Andrew's characteristics of a rod knock. I dropped the pan to adjust bearing clearances (my first time). The good news was that there was very little sludge and the oil pump was spotless. The bad news was that I found metal pieces in the dipper tray (see attached picture). So, I have some questions that members may be able to help me with: 1. Does it a appear that the pieces are from a babbitt bearing? I have not yet taken the caps off of the rod or main bearings. Attached is a picture of a rod cap in case that is helpful in answering this question. 2. Whether it is a babbitt or insert bearing, it it possible to replace a single bearing with a new insert bearing with the engine in the car? I am not aware of anybody in my area who works on Model A engines and I am not set up to do so. Should I be prepared to ship the engine somewhere for repairs? Thanks for your help. Doug |
08-07-2021, 08:41 PM | #2 |
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Re: Knock/Bearing Bits
That is definitly babbitt. Probably rear or center main. I wish I could zoom in on the pieces.
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08-07-2021, 08:42 PM | #3 |
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Re: Knock/Bearing Bits
Well I would figure out which cylinder is knocking by shorting out each spark plug one at a time. You could also just pull all the caps now that you have the pan off - Just label them!
You defintely have babbitt bearings just by the way of the look of the rod. If those chunks are from the babbitt, and the bearing is bad, you can't just replace it with an insert. Your engine has to be set up and bored for inserts. You might get lucky and it is not a bearing. Check the gears along with the oil pump for any damage.
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08-07-2021, 11:50 PM | #4 |
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Re: Knock/Bearing Bits
The center main is usually what gives out first. This is usually caused by fast driving with an non counterweighted crankshaft. This was one of the shortfalls of the Model A engine.
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08-08-2021, 12:25 AM | #5 |
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Location: Oregon
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Re: Knock/Bearing Bits
Inspect the bearings. If a rod is bad you can have it repoured and machined without removing the engine.
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08-08-2021, 06:42 AM | #6 |
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Re: Knock/Bearing Bits
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A is for apple, green as the sky. Step on the gas, for tomorrow I die. Forget the brakes, they really don't work. The clutch always sticks, and starts with a jerk. My car grows red hair, and flies through the air. Driving's a blast, a blast from the past. |
08-08-2021, 09:40 AM | #7 |
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Location: Tacoma, WA
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Re: Knock/Bearing Bits
Yup...you got problems. I went through this in June and changed oil just cause. Same amount of Babbitt as your pic. We were lucky to have made it home from our trip. Engine banged and rattled for 200 plus miles. Center main for sure in my case. Stethoscope the center main bolt on the driver's side while running. Pulling the engine and going inserts. I'm personally done with Babbitt.
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08-08-2021, 05:09 PM | #8 |
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Location: Olga, WA
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Re: Knock/Bearing Bits
Thanks to all.
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08-08-2021, 10:37 PM | #9 |
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Re: Knock/Bearing Bits
If it is a rod, you are a lucky man, and you can order babbitt rods from Bert,s or Synders.
Good Luck |
08-10-2021, 07:35 AM | #10 |
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Join Date: May 2010
Location: Long Island, NY
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Re: Knock/Bearing Bits
Here's a 300% enlargement of your picture. If the solution is a rebuilt engine in the neighborhood of $4000, consider buying a Burtz engine.
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Bob Bidonde |
08-10-2021, 10:28 AM | #11 |
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Re: Knock/Bearing Bits
Bob:
I had that way in the back of my mind but not sure if I am smart enough to put together all the parts and pieces... |
08-10-2021, 05:55 PM | #12 |
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Location: Oregon
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Re: Knock/Bearing Bits
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08-10-2021, 06:21 PM | #13 |
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Re: Knock/Bearing Bits
J Franklin:
If I could find someone qualified and "local", I would go that route... |
08-12-2021, 01:49 PM | #14 |
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Join Date: Apr 2015
Location: Olga, WA
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Re: Knock/Bearing Bits
At the risk of opening a can of worms..
If I was to consider a short or long block from one of the engine shops that get good reviews on this web site, what are the opinions out there about babbitt vs insert? To aid in your feedback, I live on an island where the maximum speed limit is 40mph. I do not tour. It is hilly here. My normal drive would be a 20 mile loop and it would occur once a week maximum. I have a Mitchel gear splitter for the hills. |
08-12-2021, 02:15 PM | #15 |
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Join Date: May 2010
Location: Tacoma, WA
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Re: Knock/Bearing Bits
Engine shops are back logged. I'm on a waiting list for Antique Engine Building. I spoke with Steve at Bert's 6-8 weeks ago. There were 40 ahead of me. I just finished my shipping crate. Pulling the motor after Labor Day. I want it crated and ready to go when I get the call.
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08-12-2021, 02:42 PM | #16 |
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Re: Knock/Bearing Bits
Better call AER. I talked to him a few days ago and not sure how much longer he will be doing rebuilds.
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08-12-2021, 03:26 PM | #17 |
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Location: Spring Grove, Illinois
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Re: Knock/Bearing Bits
Inserts are much easier to work with rather than babbit these days. Babbit works good if done properly, the only issue is it is getting harder and harder to find people who know how to do correctly.
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08-12-2021, 04:15 PM | #18 | |
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Re: Knock/Bearing Bits
Quote:
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08-12-2021, 05:20 PM | #19 |
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Re: Knock/Bearing Bits
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08-12-2021, 07:04 PM | #20 |
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Re: Knock/Bearing Bits
Either babbit or inserts will work well for you.
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Dave / Lincoln Nebraska |
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