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Old 07-19-2021, 08:00 AM   #1
28fordor
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Default 7 tooth steering problem

Hello,

I have just replaced the steering box in my (RHD) 1928 Tudor here in Oz. There seems to be problem with connecting the drag link to the pitman arm. Having searched the Forum to no avail I posting the information below in the hope that someone can help out. Tests and observations made are shown below and I hope that the information below may help to provide a clear picture of the issue.

Problem with Front End – “Thea” – 1928 RHD Canadian Tudor in Oz

Situation: The RHD steering box used to be non Model A (2 tooth, probably 32 Ford) and had excessive play in the steering wheel. It was replaced with a 7 tooth steering box rebuilt with all new parts by a club member who has done this successfully for other members.

Observation 1 – The wheels turned much less on hard right lock than on hard left lock and on neither lock did the brake backing plate hit the stop nut– although much closer to touching on
left lock than right.

Observation 2 – the tie rod was bent – possibly during transport back from Adelaide after broken rear axle. On removing the tie rod, the backing plate touched the stop on left lock, but still not on right lock.

Observation 3 – after disconnecting the drag link from the pitman arm, the right backing plate hit the stop nut.
Checks done:
• The pitman arm movement appears to be similar to a spare steering box I have.
• The drag link is 24 7/8” long which seems to be correct according to information I have.
• The pitman arm and right hand steering arm appear similar to spare ones of these I have.
• The pitman arm is joined to the sector shaft correctly with the bolt through the groove.
• The pitman arm ball cranks toward the front of the car - so if it is LH drive (which I don’t think it is) then using it on RH drive would make things worse.
• It makes no difference where the steering is when the pitman arm is attached. The pitman arm is in the same position when steering is moved to full lock no matter where it is when attached to the sector shaft.
On full right lock the disconnected end of the drag link is 1” from the hole in the pitman arm. See photo.
I am very happy to provide any further measurements or photos that will assist.

Thank you in advance.

Kevin
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File Type: jpg Steering Drag Link.jpg (62.0 KB, 40 views)
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Old 07-29-2021, 06:58 PM   #2
28fordor
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Default Re: 7 tooth steering problem

Disappointing lack of response but a lot of "reads". Guess that no one can answere the problem.
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Old 07-29-2021, 08:32 PM   #3
Ruth
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Default Re: 7 tooth steering problem

Hi Kevin. Yes I read your post but I am not familiar with 7 tooth steering boxes. I would guess not many others have an answer for you either. That usually is the case when an question isn't answered right away. I don't think people are ignoring you. There are a lot of knowledgable people on here.
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Last edited by Ruth; 07-30-2021 at 07:50 AM.
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Old 07-29-2021, 08:53 PM   #4
29touring
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Default Re: 7 tooth steering problem

Can you measure the pitman arm. Many times people shorten them to get better response out of the steering instead of fixing the real problem. A photo of the front axle where the drag link attaches would also be good. I will check lengths of mine in the morning here in Michigan and get back to you.
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Old 07-29-2021, 09:55 PM   #5
bbrocksr
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Default Re: 7 tooth steering problem

Quote:
Originally Posted by 28fordor View Post
Hello,

I have just replaced the steering box in my (RHD) 1928 Tudor here in Oz. There seems to be problem with connecting the drag link to the pitman arm. Having searched the Forum to no avail I posting the information below in the hope that someone can help out. Tests and observations made are shown below and I hope that the information below may help to provide a clear picture of the issue.

Problem with Front End – “Thea” – 1928 RHD Canadian Tudor in Oz

Situation: The RHD steering box used to be non Model A (2 tooth, probably 32 Ford) and had excessive play in the steering wheel. It was replaced with a 7 tooth steering box rebuilt with all new parts by a club member who has done this successfully for other members.

Observation 1 – The wheels turned much less on hard right lock than on hard left lock and on neither lock did the brake backing plate hit the stop nut– although much closer to touching on
left lock than right.

Observation 2 – the tie rod was bent – possibly during transport back from Adelaide after broken rear axle. On removing the tie rod, the backing plate touched the stop on left lock, but still not on right lock.

Observation 3 – after disconnecting the drag link from the pitman arm, the right backing plate hit the stop nut.
Checks done:
• The pitman arm movement appears to be similar to a spare steering box I have.
• The drag link is 24 7/8” long which seems to be correct according to information I have.
• The pitman arm and right hand steering arm appear similar to spare ones of these I have.
• The pitman arm is joined to the sector shaft correctly with the bolt through the groove.
• The pitman arm ball cranks toward the front of the car - so if it is LH drive (which I don’t think it is) then using it on RH drive would make things worse.
• It makes no difference where the steering is when the pitman arm is attached. The pitman arm is in the same position when steering is moved to full lock no matter where it is when attached to the sector shaft.
On full right lock the disconnected end of the drag link is 1” from the hole in the pitman arm. See photo.
I am very happy to provide any further measurements or photos that will assist.

Thank you in advance.

Kevin
Kevin, You need an adjustable drag link. Center the steering box, put the wheels straight ahead and adjust the drag link to fit. The steering box needs to be centered when the wheels are straight, then it will turn the same amount both ways.
Bill

PS. I'm assuming the steering box was assembled correctly.

Last edited by bbrocksr; 07-29-2021 at 10:01 PM.
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Old 07-30-2021, 06:06 AM   #6
nkaminar
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Default Re: 7 tooth steering problem

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I think 29 and B Brockster have hit on the possible problem and possible solutions. Longer arm and longer link.
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Old 07-30-2021, 06:55 AM   #7
BRENT in 10-uh-C
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Default Re: 7 tooth steering problem

Quote:
Originally Posted by 28fordor View Post
Disappointing lack of response but a lot of "reads". Guess that no one can answere the problem.
I guess it is the ADD in me, however when I read it before I just never understood his question, ...so I just moved on. Can someone write it again in one 10-word or less sentence? I would be glad to share my experiences and try to answer Kevin’s question.
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Old 07-30-2021, 09:17 AM   #8
nkaminar
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Default Re: 7 tooth steering problem

Brent, I sent you a PM. Neil
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A is for apple, green as the sky.
Step on the gas, for tomorrow I die.
Forget the brakes, they really don't work.
The clutch always sticks, and starts with a jerk.
My car grows red hair, and flies through the air.
Driving's a blast, a blast from the past.
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Old 07-30-2021, 10:24 AM   #9
Bob C
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Default Re: 7 tooth steering problem

What's going on with the pitman arm, looks like questionable weld with
a gap at the bottom.
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Old 07-30-2021, 12:34 PM   #10
nkaminar
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Default Re: 7 tooth steering problem

My guess is that the pitman arm was shortened at some point by some creative welding. It is only a guess and 28 has indicated it is the same length of a spare he has. In any case, a longer pitman arm would help.
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A is for apple, green as the sky.
Step on the gas, for tomorrow I die.
Forget the brakes, they really don't work.
The clutch always sticks, and starts with a jerk.
My car grows red hair, and flies through the air.
Driving's a blast, a blast from the past.
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Old 07-30-2021, 01:27 PM   #11
29touring
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Default Re: 7 tooth steering problem

I measured an original pitman arm at 8 11/16 inches. that is overall from top to bottom.
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Old 07-31-2021, 08:04 AM   #12
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Default Re: 7 tooth steering problem

Sounds like you have bent "Steering Arms" I just went through this myself on my 28 CDN. Sport Coupe. That's why you have more turns one way then the other. A way to check is to tie a string to the front of the steering arm (Large nut) and run the string to the centre of the rear axle. The arms should be long this string line. Also look up "Ackerman angle"
My problem was the drag ling and centre link where rubbing on each other. Instead of changing the front spring that I've just done the arms where heated and bent for clearance. This is the short version!! Jp
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Old 08-04-2021, 10:20 PM   #13
28fordor
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Default Re: 7 tooth steering problem

Thank you, greatly appreciate the responses. I think I have solved the issue as I discovered that the steering arm was inserted in the stub axle at an angle. Currently rebuilding drag link and tie rod so time will tell. 29 Touring - thank you for the measurement which is something I have been unable to find up to date. Brent, sorry about the long sentences bu needed to describe the problem as i saw it.

Cheers

Kevin
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