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Old 10-17-2012, 01:56 PM   #1
Jeff/Illinois
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Default New starters for Flatheads

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Old 10-17-2012, 04:00 PM   #2
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Default Re: New starters for Flatheads

I was looking at a starter from Napa but ended up going the rebuild route because it was cheaper. I paid $100 to get mine rebuilt and it works great and I'm running 12 volts on it.
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Old 10-17-2012, 04:39 PM   #3
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Smile Re: New starters for Flatheads

had mine rebuilt, and added the modern bendix from mac, still six volt, fires up on first try every time, 1953 f-100
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Old 10-17-2012, 05:18 PM   #4
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Default Re: New starters for Flatheads

The later type bendix can have interference on some of the 8BA installations. I still prefer the old style whirly gig type Bendix. The modern ones have a one way clutch that works OK as long as the manufacturer uses quality steel in their construction. If it has questionable lineage from the third word, I'd avoid it altogether.
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Old 10-17-2012, 06:42 PM   #5
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Default Re: New starters for Flatheads

how do the new type Bendix sound, i like the sound of a flathead cranking!
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Old 10-17-2012, 08:39 PM   #6
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Default Re: New starters for Flatheads

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The new ones work good but have a "different" sound. I would chose getting an original rebuilt. Plus these little starter and generator rebuilding shops are disappearing so I try to support them with my business.
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Old 10-17-2012, 08:58 PM   #7
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Default Re: New starters for Flatheads

I'm with Brendan....I just love the sound of my flatty crankin on 6volts
Almost... as much as the sound of duel pipes on the flatty
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Old 10-17-2012, 09:35 PM   #8
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Default Re: New starters for Flatheads

The thing that I like better than the sound of a flathead cranking is the sound of a flathead starting and running.
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Old 10-17-2012, 10:12 PM   #9
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Default Re: New starters for Flatheads

Have your original rebuilt by an old guy at a local reputable shop. Tell the old guy you want "high torque coils". If he's been around, he will build you one that cranks faster.
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Old 10-17-2012, 11:24 PM   #10
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Default Re: New starters for Flatheads

I got one in my 51 and it sounds like a dodge starter from the 70's
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Old 10-17-2012, 11:59 PM   #11
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Default Re: New starters for Flatheads

Not if powermaster sells a 6v, they might. I have a 12v powermaster... they have the orginial style where the gear pulls in towards the starter (bendix)and the style where it throws the gear out (modern). I have the latter and it works great... Looks pretty good too, doesn't really stand out.
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Old 10-18-2012, 02:20 AM   #12
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Default Re: New starters for Flatheads

Jeff, I tried a new one from Mac's with the bendix on my '53 stick shift and an 8BA and it wouldn't clear the housing. It looked and felt "cheap" and was made in India which I sent back. I had my original rebuilt and I am glad I did. Looks and sounds great especially with 2/0 cables. Mac's quickly refunded my money.
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Old 10-18-2012, 11:18 AM   #13
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Default Re: New starters for Flatheads

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeff/Illinois View Post
I am deciding between having the original rebuilt, or buying a new one. Thanks.
This is THE guy!

Vern Davidson

Vern's Ford Flathead Shop
3478-1/2 F Rd
Clifton
Colorado 81520

970-434-8989

[email protected]

http://www.FordFlathead.com

I sent him the 6-volt starter from my '53 Victoria, and he converted it for use on 12 volts. This included changing the internal field coils so the engagement isn't as violent as it would have been.

He's a helluva guy, too.
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Old 10-18-2012, 08:16 PM   #14
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Default Re: New starters for Flatheads

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Originally Posted by Jeff/Illinois View Post
Oops. I went to his web site and he is no longer in business. Went out around the end of 2011 it looks like.
Try his e-mail or phone. He may just hiding in his shop.
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Old 10-19-2012, 08:45 AM   #15
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Default Re: New starters for Flatheads

During our Barner's Maine Tour this past August the only breakdown we had was with one of those new style starter mechanisms. An internal retaining ring popped out of it's groove causing the failure. We managed to get it back together and it seemed to work ok for the remainder of the tour but I felt if it happened once it will fail again and probably at the worse time possible. Personally, I would stay with the old style Bendix type starter drive for 6 or 12 volts. JMO
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Old 10-19-2012, 08:53 AM   #16
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Default Re: New starters for Flatheads

I think the new style drive would be OK if it was USA made, after all, they used that type all through the 60's and 70's. But, these are probably offshore drives??
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Old 10-19-2012, 02:27 PM   #17
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Default Re: New starters for Flatheads

Been reading this post. We stock the imported starter. With the fit issues on the larger diameter barrel type drive, we decided to make them available with the original Ford-Bendix type drive instead. We can't buy them w/o the barrel drive, so we have to remove that and replace it with a USA made bendix type drive. We also replace the woodruf key for the drive. The starters work well and this puts the original type drive in place with no fit-up problems. Something to keep in mind....

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Old 10-19-2012, 04:33 PM   #18
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Default Re: New starters for Flatheads

I put in the PowerMaster style (12v) after hanging my original while out shopping, twice in a week. I haven't had to do a thing to the powermaster in 9 years, which is exactly what I wanted. I have better things to do than worry about the starter. No one has mentioned, some re-wiring is needed because it has the solenoid on the starter, like a Chevy.
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Old 10-19-2012, 04:57 PM   #19
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Default Re: New starters for Flatheads

Found a "Y" block starter, took the windings out and installed in my flathead starter. Bolt in. Been working perfect for 25 years.
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Old 10-20-2012, 09:43 AM   #20
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Default Re: New starters for Flatheads

does anyone know where you can buy the stud for the battery cable on a flathead starter? it has a slot on the inside end where the field wires attach.
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Old 10-20-2012, 10:59 AM   #21
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Default Re: New starters for Flatheads

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kevin in MT View Post
does anyone know where you can buy the stud for the battery cable on a flathead starter? it has a slot on the inside end where the field wires attach.
Bob Drake has them in his big 2012 catalog. Not sure they have the slot you are talking about though.
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Old 10-20-2012, 01:03 PM   #22
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Default Re: New starters for Flatheads

I have a rebuilt 49-53 rebuilt starter that I will give to anyone ,just pay shipping cost .I had it in my 55 F-100 that I put a flathead in with a c-4 tranny .Had to change starters .P M if you want it .
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Old 10-20-2012, 05:42 PM   #23
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Default Re: New starters for Flatheads

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kevin in MT View Post
does anyone know where you can buy the stud for the battery cable on a flathead starter? it has a slot on the inside end where the field wires attach.
I think I have some new starter studs. I'll try to remember to look tomorrow.
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Old 05-12-2013, 04:40 PM   #24
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Default Vern Davidson - still in business??

his number is disconnected as per ATT today - website not working either - Anyone been in touch with Vern lately?
------

Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard in Florida View Post

This is THE guy!

Vern Davidson

Vern's Ford Flathead Shop
3478-1/2 F Rd
Clifton
Colorado 81520

970-434-8989

[email protected]

http://www.FordFlathead.com

I sent him the 6-volt starter from my '53 Victoria, and he converted it for use on 12 volts. This included changing the internal field coils so the engagement isn't as violent as it would have been.

He's a helluva guy, too.
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Old 05-12-2013, 05:54 PM   #25
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Default Re: New starters for Flatheads

Kevin,
I have some genuine NOS Ford copper studs. You'll need a big soldering iron
to get things hot enough quick enough if you attempt to replace the stud while
the fields remain in the case. For me it's easier to remove the field coils and
solder things up on the bench.
Charlie ny
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Old 05-13-2013, 04:20 AM   #26
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Default Re: New starters for Flatheads

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Guys who run 12v into their original 6v starters are at risk of premature wear of the ring-gear teeth and/or bendix spring breakage from the "slamming" action. It wont happen overnight, maybe not for a couple of years or so, but it will happen eventually. Having the starter rebuilt with 12v coils is definitely the better option.
I have one of the new 12v starters as in Mac VanPelts picture, but with the solid setup they normally come with. It is quite tricky to manouver into place, but once it's in it works just fine. You just have to winkle it in and find the sweet spot where it just slides right on in.
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Old 05-13-2013, 07:52 AM   #27
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Default Re: New starters for Flatheads

I've just tested the armature for shorts and if good I replaced the bushings and brushes. Works every time.
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Old 05-13-2013, 08:06 AM   #28
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Default Re: New starters for Flatheads

BUILDING A 12-VOLT STARTER
For flatheads , here is how to build a 12-volt starter.

Take your flathead starter apart. Keep the long through-bolts and end plate with the armature and bendix. Turn the armature if required. Don't under-cut the copper bars on armature. Use the starter from 332, 352, 360, 390 or 406 c.i. Ford FE engines as the conversion starter. Disassemble the FE starter. Keep the end plate with brushes and case with field coils. Check the bushing in the end plate and replace if necessary. The wire size and number of windings on the FE and flathead armatures and they are the same.

Now is also a good time to install new brushes. Install the flathead armature into the FE case. Install the FE end plate with brushes. Put long through-bolts in starter.

You now have a flathead starter capable of cranking an engine of 300 to 400 c.i. ,up to11 to 1 compression ratio. The finished starter looks like the flathead starter and you did it yourself.



R

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Old 05-13-2013, 08:20 AM   #29
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Default Re: Vern Davidson - still in business??

Quote:
Originally Posted by PeterC View Post
his number is disconnected as per ATT today - website not working either - Anyone been in touch with Vern lately?
------
Vern closed up shop last year. He was really nice to work with, and did a beautiful job rebuilding starters. His knowledge, expertise and personality will be greatly missed.
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Old 05-13-2013, 10:28 AM   #30
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Default Re: New starters for Flatheads

"Take your flathead starter apart. Keep the long through-bolts and end plate with the armature and bendix. Turn the armature if required. Don't under-cut the copper bars on armature. Use the starter from 332, 352, 360, 390 or 406 c.i. Ford FE engines as the conversion starter. Disassemble the FE starter. Keep the end plate with brushes and case with field coils. Check the bushing in the end plate and replace if necessary. The wire size and number of windings on the FE and flathead armatures and they are the same.

Now is also a good time to install new brushes. Install the flathead armature into the FE case. Install the FE end plate with brushes. Put long through-bolts in starter.

You now have a flathead starter capable of cranking an engine of 300 to 400 c.i. ,up to11 to 1 compression ratio. The finished starter looks like the flathead starter and you did it yourself."

This works. I have done this for two 12 volt starter conversions. On the last one I got a rebuilt starter from O'Rileys to use the case. It was for a 1964 Ford Galaxie; 390 cu in. engine. The part # is 03-0214 and the line is ULT. Cost was $39.99 plus 20 bucks for the core. So, for 60 bucks, you can have a 12 volt starter that works great.
Ed


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Old 05-13-2013, 05:37 PM   #31
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Default Re: New starters for Flatheads

Dam sorry Vern's on longer doing starters ?? I sure hope he's taken up pro. girl watching.
He helped me with chrome on my starter, I was going to chrome the old field bolts, he told me no, the chrome will pop right off when he torques em tight, he will chrome some special crowned bolts, yes it cost more, but it looks great, so Ill think about Vern when I push the start button ....thanks Vern... wherever you are......OLD.....BILL
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Old 05-13-2013, 07:22 PM   #32
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Default Re: Vern Davidson - still in business??

This is what I needed to know - thanks for the confirmation - sorry to learn Vern exited the business and hope he is healthy and well. Wonder if there is someone out there that does as nice a job as Vern did.


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Vern closed up shop last year. He was really nice to work with, and did a beautiful job rebuilding starters. His knowledge, expertise and personality will be greatly missed.
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Old 05-13-2013, 07:29 PM   #33
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Default Re: New starters for Flatheads

How do you know whom to trust for good work. I recently had Sammy redo my starter (he was recommended by NAPA). Installed it and on the third fire up it just spun with a whirl. Took it out and one of the bolts that holds the bendix spring was missing. It had to be in the bell housing somewhere. Took the T-5 transmission out with a five hour effort. Not an easy job on my pickup. Found the bolt and keeper n the bell housing. Took it to Sammy. He said it has never happened to him before. Yea right you creep. I asked him how that happened. Well, I know how. The bolt was too short and forced out. It had stripped threads and it was obvious. He redid with a longer bolt. I asked him if I can expect some financial return for my effort since it was his mistake. He said no, but the next time we can work something out. There will be no next time with you, Sammy.
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Old 08-27-2017, 08:12 AM   #34
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Default Re: New starters for Flatheads

Hey guys I have a 8ba with a little work done to it but nothing crazy, I fitted a brand new powermaster performance vintage torque starter motor about a year and a half ago when I first built the motor. only stared it a couple of times and it all seamed fine. Just tonight I went to start the engine and it started fine about twice than I heard a loud crack and the starter is free spinning. I striped it down to fine all the plenatery gears broken. Has anyone had the same problem?
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Old 08-27-2017, 08:32 AM   #35
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Default Re: New starters for Flatheads

I have tried 3 of the "new" starters that I bought from Joblot while they were still in business. The first one was defective from the beginning and they replaced it. The second one is working OK and the third one was on my '40 pickup and worked fine when cold, but wouldn't work when hot, just acted like an almost dead battery.
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