question for fabricators patch panel

[Gary in Mozarks]

I am working on the body of my 38/39 panel. The left rear quarter is a mess. I intend to cut it out so I can work it from the backside on an anvil and sandbag. then weld it back in place. I have to cut the last quarter of the wheelwell, up to the double bead, then across to almost the back door and down to the bottom.

My question is: Is is better to try to splice right at the very edge of the double bead or is is better to splice it back, on a flat? Say a 1/2 inch above or below the beads.
Thanks Gary

[jdl]

I'm no expert but I would cut 1"-2" away from the bead on the flat to mantain the bead contour. make clean cuts with jig saw. others will chime in. you also might be able to replace it with new sheetmetal formed by hand?

[Frank The Plumber]

Hi Gary, you want to stay away from that bead, it likes to warp, did you find a patch panel for that? I had to make a buck for that and put small tubs in the whee lwells, got any pics of what you have to work with?

[roadster36]

Frank is correct in my opinion, repairing the bead area will be more difficult. I usually try and duplicate the panel I need to make BEFORE I cut out the old one if possible. Your panel probably has a very slight contour to it that would be good to duplicate. You might look for a donor panel from a door skin or a roof section from a newer car if you don't have access to an english wheel or power hammer. Go slow, measure twice,have fun. - Dennis

[Ken Crans]

Gary, Yea, Stay away from the bead. When your laying out the side to be cut out, make reference points for the alignment of the new piece. If you got a nibbler and a piece of round stock, you can make your own . I did on my 49 panel.

[Gary in Mozarks]

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Here are some pictures of the corner, As you can see, its a real mess.

Its too far in for me to be able to work with a hammer and dolly (I work by myself) Which is why I intend to cut it out and work it, then weld it back n place.
As you can also see, the damage starts at the fender bead and entends up into the middle(beltline) beads.
Gary

[roadster36]

Kent Fuller taught me a trick about 15 years ago for something like this. He made a pattern of the bead using wax paper and bondo. With the reverse mold he was able to duplicate it in wood or steel and then use that to rough the shape back in. I don't think I would cut your panel out. Do you have anyone close that know metal work that can steer you in the right direction. I have seen damage worse than this repaired. Don't give up on it.

[Human Fly]

Cut it back from any bead line or feature, I am putting a 32 5w back together now, it was cut up along the bead line.......I have to make those parts fresh to get a nice line as any imperfections stand out on a bead line.

[Mike B]

I'd say, if you're intimdated by the panel, have someone else finsih it for you, not knowing your car specifillcy, it does look like youcould lay under it, and hammer/dolly it out...ofcourse I don't know if there's a inner panel to deal with, but if there is, I'd cut the inner panel out, and hammer the part you show to the desired shape.

Just waht I'd do...now take it for what it's worth, I pulled apart a '32 dodge PU cab to make it easier to do the bodywork!

[Ken Crans]

Gary, Your gonna have to straighten some of the bead before you cut. Tack new piece in and bump and dolly those beads in after weld, then lead in seams and file and form. Good Luck Ken

[Gary in Mozarks]

Originally Posted by Mike B

I'd say, if you're intimdated by the panel, have someone else finsih it for you, not knowing your car specifillcy, it does look like youcould lay under it, and hammer/dolly it out...ofcourse I don't know if there's a inner panel to deal with, but if there is, I'd cut the inner panel out, and hammer the part you show to the desired shape.

Just waht I'd do...now take it for what it's worth, I pulled apart a '32 dodge PU cab to make it easier to do the bodywork!

Yep, I think I could lay under it and beat it out but I think I would have alot more stretch from less than square hits with the hammer. and alot more bondo in it. I wouldn't say I am exactly intimidated by it, but I know enough to ask questions before I plunge ahead. I also don;t bend like I used to and getting up and down off the floor is getting to be a chore.
I listen to what people have to say and then decide what I can do. I am going to have to cut through the beltline bead in two places and then cut across about an inch above the bead. I think I can make a dolly that matches the bead and work that out on an anvil. In the end, I may regret cutting it out but Im a better welder than I am a body man LOL

[joel]

I've found the meal has a memory of sorts and I'd probably use pressure from the inside and maybe warm the panel slightly to see how much it will come back . Then use some pulling techniques along with some hammering to help the metal move back. You can always cut it out when it quits responding. JMHO. Good Luck

[Dave72dt]

Use one of those stud guns with the rivets that are spotted on before you cut anything. They will pull a tremendous amount of dent out with a little light hammer work to release stress as you pull.

[Frank The Plumber]

In wood working we have a tool for capturing shapes, it is called a duplicator, it consists of a body part and about 300 small rods that protrude through it, when you push it against a shape surface such as the beads it captures the contour, you can then transfer that pattern to paper or as in wood work compensate your router bits, this tool is a great friend for these beaded cars, they are available through woodcraft in you cannot find them.
On my gal the radiused beads were not that bad the straights were trashed, I made a tee dolly for the straights and beat them fairly straight, for the radius beads I took a chunck of rod heated the heck out of it and beat it to shape, I then polished it back to smooth. I took an oxyacetylene torch and carbon annealed the steel to soften it so it would work easier and not crack, you heat the spot and then run it real rich and build up a nice coat of carbon on it, let it air cool and it works a bit easier.
From where Im standing and on my project the most important factor was the doors, these doors are a pain in the butt to keep square, if you can try to x brace the door frame and maybe even tack some laps to the doors, in some of the bad spots, this way you can make a unit of the doors and keep them as an assembly, I think you are best off planning a strategy of taking that panel apart in a planned pattern and working it in sections, I have in the past taken strip copper and cut it into pieces, riveted those pieces to joint a panel and then done my seam work, after you have your panel metal worked you drill out your rivets and metal fill the holes, this is my alternative to Klecos or hold tites, I like this cause the copper will sort of act as a heat sync.
I would try to stay away from late model steel from junk cars, its too thin, I think I had the best luck with 18 gauge. Theres a guy on the HAMB who did a car from scratch, search: and they sed it couldn't be done, It has a few bits on metal preferences and bucks and such, stay cool, the heat must be rough.

[Fe26]

Originally Posted by Dave72dt

Use one of those stud guns with the rivets that are spotted on before you cut anything. They will pull a tremendous amount of dent out with a little light hammer work to release stress as you pull.

WINNER!
You can even hire those guns.

[ironbuttjohn]

You could let someone else do the body work while you go fishing!

[FlatheadTed]

Personly I would be looking to hammer out the triple bead at the top ,If you can get your had in from the back just weld a piece of 2" bar stock 1/2 or 3/4 rod onto a handle like a 5"x1/4 Flat stock .Then work it with a heavy hammer ,The other option is to cut a hole in it to get your arm in,at the flat part thats esey to weld back .The lower part , cut away the lower 12", from the Fender opening were the good part of the swag Finnish es And fabricate a com pleat new one ,You will need a swagger and a roller .

[Gary in Mozarks]

Well, after reading eeryones posts, I have decided to take your advise, I am not going to cut out the panel, Im going to work it from the inside. I started working it some and its comming along. It looks like I might have to cut out part of the inner door support to get to the farthest back corner but the welding will be on thicker metal and all inside the vehicle. Thank you for all your input
Gary in Mozarks

[FlatheadTed]

Heres some Radiator sides and tail gate we fabricated.

[FlatheadTed]

The lower piece you form it around a lamp post or something then make a wood curved (Buck) piece with a groove in it then form your swag by hammering from the back into it .use the tool I suggested ,1/2 bar .Or you could open the Vice to the size of the swag and use that as the groove Former .