choosing brake drums for 1940 ford

[hope]

No the drums are not swaged to the lug bolts.

[V8COOPMAN]

Originally Posted by hope

No the drums are not swaged to the lug bolts.

NOW we're getting somewhere! And MANY thanks to Jim (19Fourdy) and JSeery for simplifying matters to clear-up any confusion that I may have caused.


OK Hope, you indicate that your CURRENT rear drums are already separated from the rear hubs. If that is true, and if it has been properly done, you are home free needing to purchase ONLY two of the new MT BENDIX rear drums. Is there any way you could post a couple of pictures, OR e-mail me a couple of pictures, of your SEPARATED rear hub and drum? Close-up pictures of the hub and it's studs would be good. This would help us to verify for you that your hubs are in fact READY to receive new drums. If it is easier for you to e-mail pictures, my e-mail is below. I can then probably post them here on the 'Barn for everyone to see. DD


My e-mail: [email protected]

[19Fordy]

Yes indeedy. Post some photos of what you're dealing with like V8 suggest. Sounds like all you need are new drums from MT.

[hope]

Originally Posted by V8COOPMAN

The key point determining whether the new drums will function properly between the LOCKHEED-type and the BENDIX-type is the "offset" of the backing plates. If you will look at each of the two types of b/plates, the center mounting surface with the four bolt holes juts-out toward you at a dimension of something like 5/8"-3/4" or so. That is the "offset" we mention. If you'll notice, the brake shoes and wheel cylinder are "offset" INBOARD by this 5/8-3/4" or so, going by visual rather than me actually going out and measuring one. Just so happens that the offset of the Ford Lockheed b/plate is the same as the offset on the Bendix-type b/plates. This "offset" is important because it determines how far inboard, OR how far outboard the brake drum must sit so as not to rub on the backing plate, yet be close enough to the backing plate to fully cover the brake shoe linings. It is a known fact that you can successfully use STOCK '40 FORD BRAKE DRUM/HUB assemblies with the BENDIX-type backing plates. This suggests to me that the offset on a NEW BENDIX drum should be the same as an OLD '40 FORD DRUM.


The important question now is...HOW are you planning on doing this replacement? Are you planning on using the reproduction BENDIX rear hub along with the NEW BENDIX rear drums? If so, you're golden! Check-out the pictures "19Fourdy" posted above of his BENDIX-type drums and rear hubs.


If you're planning on replacing the NEW BENDIX drums on your OLD FORD hubs, do you realize that removing the drum from the hub takes a special process to accomplish correctly? You must cut away the swaged lip on each wheel stud to be able to de-mate the drum from the hub. This process deems the wheel studs as junk and they must be replaced. it's not just a matter of getting new studs and pounding them into the hub flange. New, slightly-OVERSIZE (diameter) studs of appropriate length must be purchased, and the five stud holes in the hub flange must be reamed to the appropriate size to receive the new studs as they are pressed into place. The new studs will need to be slightly longer than the stock studs were as the NEW drum's mounting surface is thicker than the surface on a stock drum. Simple as pie, huh? Hoping this answers your question. Note the similar offsets on the two different backing plate designs below. DD








……...

O.K you guys, i know what you'r thinking..........

So take it easy on the OLD man, but i'm trying ! that's my BAD i'm wrong ( ignorant) they are Swedjed, i just thought it was simpler than that.



V8COOPMAN :
as so elaborately explained in your first post, now i realize how involved it



is (don't know why it took me so long to wake up.)


So as it is for now, it will have to sit a while, unless i get a sudden influx of funds. Because M/T products prices are not compatible with my budget at the moment.


Had to go out in the garage to take the wheel off and the drum to look. i took a picture. i'll try to send it to AV8COOPMAN.


I know i said THANK YOU before, but i have to let you know i appreciate you sticking with me to set my mind straight, this will avoid me buying the wrong part and having to send it back. (witch is a pain).
Hope

[19Fordy]

Ok HOPE. Sounds like you're on the right track.

FIRST: Find out how difficult it is to remove drum from the swedged studs and cost.

I think folks have used hole saws. Whatever you do, don't beat it to death or attack it with a cutting torch.

[19Fordy]

Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements)

HOPE: This shows how to remove the studs without destroying anything.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mi_FrxpeSi0
and
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V2GZpSR2Fas
and
https://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/...g-bolt.241116/
and
https://fordbarn.com/forum/showthread.php?t=124924 and more here:
https://www.google.com/search?q=how+...hrome&ie=UTF-8

[FlatheadTed]

These are not Lockheed but for any one wanting remove the drums its a common thing to remove the swaged studs on a Model .We drill the head of the rear ,these Model A ones have the grub screw fitted so the drums are removable .

[hope]

Originally Posted by 19Fordy

HOPE: This shows how to remove the studs without destroying anything.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mi_FrxpeSi0
and
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V2GZpSR2Fas
and
https://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/...g-bolt.241116/
and
https://fordbarn.com/forum/showthread.php?t=124924 and more here:
https://www.google.com/search?q=how+...hrome&ie=UTF-8

19Fordy
Very valuable information, i will have to (STEW) on that for a while.


Thank You



Hope

[uncle max]

“Hope” you figure it out soon Leo!

[Mart]

Hope. Call me old fashioned, but what would happen if you just bolted it all back together with the existing drums?

Were the brakes working before you tore it down?

Do you do much driving? Do you clock up a lot of miles?

If the brakes are actually serviceable, even if not perfect, how long would you need to drive it for to take it to the point where they really do need replacing?

If your son cared about the car he would fix them for you now.

Don't worry about your son.

If you enjoy driving it just drive it. Who knows what tomorrow will bring?

Mart.

[hope]

Hi Mart


I'll try the best i can to answer all your questions. My age and all the medication i take prevent me from composing a meaningful message.


Here goes:::i do not drive the car a lot, its not registered and i do occasionally drive it in the neighborhood, it only has 28 miles since rebuilt.


The brake system was always bad (iffy) and i know the rear drums are over cut, from what i understand the maximum cut is 12.060" there about and these are 12.125 that i can measure with a tape measure. Probability " one

of the reasons" i have trouble with not having a good brake pedal.


And i thought that using Dot#5 brake fluid was a good decision?


So after spending$$$ on that idea, i'm going to start from scratch and go for a new master cyl...new drums and Dot#3 fluid, i'll do that at the proper time (i work very SLOW) with some help from a friend on bleeding the system,(he's always telling me its a two men operation) but over the years i've always done it by myself.


I do have a some what brake pedal now so i'm going to take the car in the driveway and see what i've got.



So that's where i stand now, and so be it.


Hope

P.S. I've been looking now and then at your progress.

[19Fordy]

Hope: Once you get new legal brake drums you will be a happy camper with good brake pedal and stopping power.
Take it slow and it will go.

[tubman]

From my experience, the last thing someone in your position needs are the additional problems that bleeding a system with DOT-5 brings. I agree that you made the correct decision to stick with DOT-3 (or DOT-4, which is compatible).

[V8COOPMAN]

This is Leo's neat ol' '40 Sedan that he sent me this picture of. C'mon Leo, we've gotta get that thing cruisin' again! DD

[40 Deluxe]

Swedged brake drums were very common back in the day and just about every repair shop, brake shop and machine shop had the tools to do it. Check around some old time shops to see if they can still do it.

[hope]

Originally Posted by V8COOPMAN

This is Leo's neat ol' '40 Sedan that he sent me this picture of. C'mon Leo, we've gotta get that thing cruisin' again! DD

I will eventually conquer this Gremelin, but i cain't be rushed because of OLD Age. I'm "slow" physically and mentally, and i sound like a broken record with this repetition.


Took the 40 for a little ride in the neighborhood, to see what i had for brakes (no good, spongy as hell and about 3" brake pedal) and broke down with another problem i had before.


Coil passed out, and i don't know why. Coil gets extremely hot, now i'm wondering if i got it wired wrong, 12volt converted system and a resister in line. New coil and baught another one with same problem, so its probably my bad again.

When i replace it with an"OLD ONE" it works o.k. but i dont know for how long?
Before i stop Blabering about my problems, let me say that i feel terrible about complaining so much.
Hope

Problems, Problems.

[V8COOPMAN]

Originally Posted by hope

Problems, Problems.

Ahhhh………! You're not complaining too much, Leo. Several of us here determined to TRY to help ya anyway! Do you know what kind of coil it is (the old one) that you replaced the burned-up ones with? Maybe we can start from there and figure that problem out.


In the meantime, I went over and snooped-around on YouTube and found a video to watch describing what is involved with cutting the swages away from each stud so that someone can safely press the studs out, releasing the drum without warping the flange on your hubs. THIS video shows this "swage cutting" procedure on a JEEP drum/hub. The Jeep assembly is built just a little differently than your '40 Ford drum/hub, but the process is virtually the same. At the least, it'll show you the process necessary to do the separation properly. Click on the link below for the video!


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mi_FrxpeSi0


Let us know more about that OLD coil that still works! DD

[hope]

Yep! :saw that video on You Tube, made made me feel not so stupid after all Because i had already tried that, with a hole saw on my own, on one stud before a saw the video, also found out that i have to improve my technique a little.
Thanks for keeping me on my toes, (so to speak) to keep me aware of things.
Hope

[hope]

AAAAHHHH computers GEEEESSS.


Try again\... the old coil you asked about is from:: about the 1970s+++

[V8COOPMAN]

Originally Posted by hope

AAAAHHHH computers GEEEESSS.


Try again\... the old coil you asked about is from:: about the 1970s+++

OK, but that doesn't tell us much toward what it is EXACTLY to replace it properly. Any writing or marks on it? Couple of pictures, maybe? We're tryin'! DD