The Ford Barn

53_mercLuke · 07-11-2018, 03:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FlatheadTed

With the key on by pass the solenoid by using the jump leads from one terminal to the other or from the battery terminal to the starter terminal ,You will get some sparks but this will tell you if the solenoid is faulty or perhaps the dash button .Ted

That's how I have been jumping now, the thing that is confusing me with everyone thinking the start solenoid is why would my battery go from 6.3 volts at first to 4 something or lest after I hit my start button even though nothing happens?

tubman · 07-11-2018, 04:00 PM

It sounds like it's doing it's own "Load Test" and failing it.

fordwife · 07-11-2018, 04:17 PM

This is beginning to sound like the Bendix drive is hung up on the ring gear. Put it in high gear and rock the car back and forth.

1931flathead · 07-11-2018, 04:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 53_mercLuke

That's how I have been jumping now, the thing that is confusing me with everyone thinking the start solenoid is why would my battery go from 6.3 volts at first to 4 something or lest after I hit my start button even though nothing happens?

Maybe you solenoid is shorting out ??

53_mercLuke · 07-11-2018, 05:24 PM

So I just got home and tapped/hit the start solenoid with a screwdriver and absolutely nothing happened, checked the battery volts and it's at 0.00 volts. Now if I charge it, it will start fine so I'm not sure where to go at this point, do I charge it and wait until it happens again or what?

Bob C · 07-11-2018, 05:33 PM

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I'd pull one of the battery cables and put an ammeter between the battery
post and the cable to check for current draw, see if something is draining the battery.

Bob

fordwife · 07-11-2018, 06:26 PM

I think tubman is on the right track.

flatjack9 · 07-11-2018, 07:23 PM

As noted, remove the battery cable. If you touch the cable to the battery post and get a spark, you have a current draw and have to look for the source.

Tinker · 07-11-2018, 09:14 PM

Check your grounds. Check your wires if they haven't been replaced.

You have a gremlin, most likely a bad wire harness or ground. Issue started with a change.

Maybe a solenoid but the rarely go bad (yes they are grounded also to the firewall). Grounds always makes' ya' chase every other issue.

Good luck

Tinker · 07-11-2018, 09:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by flatjack9

As noted, remove the battery cable. If you touch the cable to the battery post and get a spark, you have a current draw and have to look for the source.

Isn't that a wives tale? I have a solid system but yet when I hook up a battery charger I can get it to spark by tapping it a few times to the terminal. Curious, IDK

Tinker · 07-11-2018, 09:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bob C

I'd pull one of the battery cables and put an ammeter between the battery
post and the cable to check for current draw, see if something is draining the battery.

Bob

yep. Every thing shut off and an amp meter off neg battery post and neg cable disconnected. if amps flow... you have a short.

flatjack9 · 07-11-2018, 09:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tinker

Isn't that a wives tale? I have a solid system but yet when I hook up a battery charger I can get it to spark by tapping it a few times to the terminal. Curious, IDK

Not a wive's tale. It has worked for me several times over the years. Don't know about a battery charger. And it usually is a small spark.

Tinker · 07-11-2018, 09:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by flatjack9

Not a wive's tale. It has worked for me several times over the years. Don't know about a battery charger. And it usually is a small spark.

I don;t know... just discussion.

I will say a charger has a built in charge.

Model A - today systems are always active. neg/pos, like any system without a battery cutout. It's a live system ready to give amps. Amps discharge a battery, not active volts in the system. Connecting a volt system might spark when being connected to a circuit. Again IDK. But what you say it makes sense if everything is closed and insulated/isolated.

.

Mart · 07-12-2018, 04:58 AM

A modern car will spark the battery terminal if touching it on and off, but on one of "our" old vehicles it should not. With the ignition and lights off, there should be absolutely no draw.

Mart.

53_mercLuke · 07-12-2018, 11:13 PM

So I went to charge my battery tonight after work so I can try and get this issue figured out over the weekend and had the battery in the car on a charger for about 2 hours and it didn't take a charge, took it out of the car and it seems to be taking a charge now, this is a new addition to my problem now

hook00pad · 07-13-2018, 09:16 AM

I think you need to Clean your battery terminals and check your grounds.

Hook

53_mercLuke · 07-14-2018, 04:12 PM

Just wanted to do an update on my issue. It seems to be the start solenoid. I bought a new one the other day charged my battery again and put it in, preformed so.e of the tests y'all recommended and today I took it for a good long cruise/test drive. Everything ran great got it home and let it sit in the driveway for a couple hours, went back out and it fired right up. I'm going to keep my eye on it but as of now it was the start solenoid. Thanks for all the help and advice I really appreciate it

JSeery · 07-14-2018, 09:57 PM

Remember back when you were asking why everyone was thinking it was the starter solenoid?

Frank Miller · 07-15-2018, 07:43 AM

Just an FYI You asked why the battery went to 4 volts after hitting the starter button? A motor, the starter in this case, is a dead short until it starts spinning. If the solenoid switch was not making good contact it would be enough to create the short but not enough to spin the starter. After sitting the voltage may restore itself a bit. I hope the solenoid solves your problem but if it happens again it may be the battery. The light you hooked up may just be a coincidence. To check for a battery drain take off a cable and put a test light between the post and the cable. If it lights up then something is causing current to flow when it should not. If you have a clock that will only be momentary as it winds itself and does not run continuously unless you have modernized it.

rotorwrench · 07-15-2018, 09:29 AM

In post #1 it was mentioned that this is a 1953 Mercury with a 6-volt positive ground system. Hopefully your problem is fixed but for future reference, is this system all original or does it have any modifications like an alternator with solid state regulator? An original generator system can have major current draw if the cut out relay in the voltage regulator sticks closed. It tries to motor the generator till the battery dies. By the same token, and alternator can have damaged diodes internally and allow a large current drain but the alternator will usually start taking to you in the form of noise plus it will eventually quit charging. A generator would eventually burn up the field coil or armature or both if a cut out was intermittently sticking closed.

I hope you have found the culprit but just in case, more info doesn't hurt. It helps for us to know the straight skinny too.

07-11-2018, 04:00 PM	#22
tubman Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2013 Location: Minnesota, Florida Keys Posts: 10,316	Re: Electrical nightmare It sounds like it's doing it's own "Load Test" and failing it.

07-11-2018, 04:17 PM	#23
fordwife Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2015 Posts: 287	Re: Electrical nightmare This is beginning to sound like the Bendix drive is hung up on the ring gear. Put it in high gear and rock the car back and forth.

07-11-2018, 05:24 PM	#25
53_mercLuke Member Join Date: May 2016 Location: Houston TX Posts: 79	Re: Electrical nightmare So I just got home and tapped/hit the start solenoid with a screwdriver and absolutely nothing happened, checked the battery volts and it's at 0.00 volts. Now if I charge it, it will start fine so I'm not sure where to go at this point, do I charge it and wait until it happens again or what?

07-11-2018, 05:33 PM	#26
Bob C Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: So Cal Posts: 8,751	Re: Electrical nightmare Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements) I'd pull one of the battery cables and put an ammeter between the battery post and the cable to check for current draw, see if something is draining the battery. Bob

07-11-2018, 06:26 PM	#27
fordwife Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2015 Posts: 287	Re: Electrical nightmare I think tubman is on the right track.

07-11-2018, 07:23 PM	#28
flatjack9 Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Oshkosh, Wi Posts: 4,526	Re: Electrical nightmare As noted, remove the battery cable. If you touch the cable to the battery post and get a spark, you have a current draw and have to look for the source.

07-11-2018, 09:14 PM	#29
Tinker Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: MN Posts: 7,053	Re: Electrical nightmare Check your grounds. Check your wires if they haven't been replaced. You have a gremlin, most likely a bad wire harness or ground. Issue started with a change. Maybe a solenoid but the rarely go bad (yes they are grounded also to the firewall). Grounds always makes' ya' chase every other issue. Good luck

07-12-2018, 04:58 AM	#34
Mart Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Solihull, England. Posts: 8,750	Re: Electrical nightmare A modern car will spark the battery terminal if touching it on and off, but on one of "our" old vehicles it should not. With the ignition and lights off, there should be absolutely no draw. Mart.

07-12-2018, 11:13 PM	#35
53_mercLuke Member Join Date: May 2016 Location: Houston TX Posts: 79	Re: Electrical nightmare So I went to charge my battery tonight after work so I can try and get this issue figured out over the weekend and had the battery in the car on a charger for about 2 hours and it didn't take a charge, took it out of the car and it seems to be taking a charge now, this is a new addition to my problem now

07-13-2018, 09:16 AM	#36
hook00pad Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2013 Posts: 105	Re: Electrical nightmare I think you need to Clean your battery terminals and check your grounds. Hook

07-14-2018, 04:12 PM	#37
53_mercLuke Member Join Date: May 2016 Location: Houston TX Posts: 79	Re: Electrical nightmare Just wanted to do an update on my issue. It seems to be the start solenoid. I bought a new one the other day charged my battery again and put it in, preformed so.e of the tests y'all recommended and today I took it for a good long cruise/test drive. Everything ran great got it home and let it sit in the driveway for a couple hours, went back out and it fired right up. I'm going to keep my eye on it but as of now it was the start solenoid. Thanks for all the help and advice I really appreciate it

07-14-2018, 09:57 PM	#38
JSeery Member Emeritus Join Date: Nov 2012 Location: Wichita KS Posts: 16,132	Re: Electrical nightmare Remember back when you were asking why everyone was thinking it was the starter solenoid?

07-15-2018, 07:43 AM	#39
Frank Miller Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Auburn, MA Posts: 2,106	Re: Electrical nightmare Just an FYI You asked why the battery went to 4 volts after hitting the starter button? A motor, the starter in this case, is a dead short until it starts spinning. If the solenoid switch was not making good contact it would be enough to create the short but not enough to spin the starter. After sitting the voltage may restore itself a bit. I hope the solenoid solves your problem but if it happens again it may be the battery. The light you hooked up may just be a coincidence. To check for a battery drain take off a cable and put a test light between the post and the cable. If it lights up then something is causing current to flow when it should not. If you have a clock that will only be momentary as it winds itself and does not run continuously unless you have modernized it. __________________ “The technique of infamy is to start two lies at once and get people arguing heatedly over which is true.” ~ Ezra Pound

07-15-2018, 09:29 AM	#40
rotorwrench Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: San Antonio, Texas Posts: 16,431	Re: Electrical nightmare In post #1 it was mentioned that this is a 1953 Mercury with a 6-volt positive ground system. Hopefully your problem is fixed but for future reference, is this system all original or does it have any modifications like an alternator with solid state regulator? An original generator system can have major current draw if the cut out relay in the voltage regulator sticks closed. It tries to motor the generator till the battery dies. By the same token, and alternator can have damaged diodes internally and allow a large current drain but the alternator will usually start taking to you in the form of noise plus it will eventually quit charging. A generator would eventually burn up the field coil or armature or both if a cut out was intermittently sticking closed. I hope you have found the culprit but just in case, more info doesn't hurt. It helps for us to know the straight skinny too.