Cash Value/Sale History of Red Grow's "Betsy"?

[Erno730]

Regarding the history of Claude "Red" Grow's famous 1930 Sport Coupe "Betsy" and its upcoming raffle from MAFFI, is the cash-equivalent of $15,000 a true value of the vehicle?

The sale history of the vehicle from past editions of "The Restorer" magazine include:
-Volume 7 #6 1963 p5 - sold to Dave Grubbs, Burbank Ford Dealership for $5,000 ($50,000 in 2024)
-Volume 14 #3 1969 p24 - Advertisement by Red Grow, "Betsy for Sale" for $9,000 ($76,000 in 2024)
-Volume 15 #2 1970 p25 - "Betsy" sold by Grow to Daniel Childs, New Canaan, CT (undisclosed amount).

I am unclear as to how the vehicle returned to the ownership of Red AFTER its sale to Grubbs in 1963.

Considering the vehicle was prominently featured in many 1950's and 1960's Restorer articles and was often labeled as "the best", is the cash value from the upcoming MAFFI raffle of $15,000 an accurate dollar amount to be placed on such a vehicle?

[Bob C]

I don't think they are saying the car is worth $15,000. I think they
are saying if you win you can choose to take the $15,000 instead
of the car.

[Bob Johnson]

The winner can take the car or $15,000 in cash. There is a $36,000 minimum for the sweepstakes. If they do not get at least $36,000 in donations the car will not be awarded. In that case the winner will get 25% of the donations. They are currently close to $5,000 in donations.



That car is historically significant for the Model A hobby. For me one of the important things about that car is how the information about Model As has changed over the years. When it was restored in the 1950's it was the "state of the art" in Model A restorations. Today we have more information and current restorations have the opportunity to be much closer to how a Model A was when it left the factory.



Bob Johnson

[spdway1]

I wonder where the $36,000 amount came about.

[nkaminar]

Out of the air. How do I buy a ticket?

[Jim/GA]

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Originally Posted by nkaminar

Out of the air. How do I buy a ticket?

https://www.tapkat.org/model-a-ford-...ion-inc/q5pnpk

[ModelA29]

It's a prize. You will be liable to pay income tax on your winnings. Would you rather pay taxes on 15 or 50 grand?

[Synchro909]

Originally Posted by ModelA29

It's a prize. You will be liable to pay income tax on your winnings. Would you rather pay taxes on 15 or 50 grand?

I was wondering about that. We don't pay tax on windfall profits so it is difficult to come to terms with that. What would be the tax implications of taking the car? Pay tax on $15k?

[P.S.]

One could make the argument that the car is so historically significant to the Model A restorers hobby that it is invaluable. I believe it would be safe to call Betsy one of, if not the first blue-ribbon Model A. Working on a video of Betsy right now, so everyone can see/hear the car run and drive.

[alexiskai]

Originally Posted by Synchro909

I was wondering about that. We don't pay tax on windfall profits so it is difficult to come to terms with that. What would be the tax implications of taking the car? Pay tax on $15k?

You owe tax on the fair market value. You can have the car appraised, or you can document sales of other "similar" cars. As long as your stated value doesn't raise any red flags and if you can show your work, it would be highly unusual for the gov't to contest your assessment.

[Synchro909]

Originally Posted by alexiskai

You owe tax on the fair market value. You can have the car appraised, or you can document sales of other "similar" cars. As long as your stated value doesn't raise any red flags and if you can show your work, it would be highly unusual for the gov't to contest your assessment.

That makes sense. Evidently, this car is somehow special. I've never heard of it but I wonder how would fair market value be appraised? Not easily, I expect. I also expect the Government wouldn't get too worried about it so long as they get some money out of it. Governments are the same all over the world - the most dangerous place to be is between a Government and a source of money!

[ronn]

well Synch- the taxes here have become crazy. especially concerning lotteries


we left England because of taxes, but have really repatriated into similar systems......


it costs $ to run governments and the gov lets us know that.

[nkaminar]

The car is very nice, but aside from the historic value, it is very much like a number of cars that have been restored over the years. So for tax value I would compare it to recent sales of similar cars. Or to the $15,000. It needs to be in a museum and not in my garage.

[TerryO]

Originally Posted by ModelA29

It's a prize. You will be liable to pay income tax on your winnings. Would you rather pay taxes on 15 or 50 grand?

Or put another way, would you like to keep maybe 70% of 50,000 or 70% of 15,000?


TOB

[mhsprecher]

Given the car's historical significance, I am surprised that MAFFI isn't keeping it for display purposes. I know they are out of room, but they are building more space.

[Ray in La Mesa]

Yes, it would be neat if whoever won it would donate it back to the museum for display.

[40 Deluxe]

Message from Debbie Downer: Maybe a street rodder will win it and install a chromed up small block Chevy!

[ronn]

new value- 5k...............lol

[ModelA29]

Originally Posted by ronn

new value- 5k...............lol

Unfortunately the value goes up not down.


I had a friend who worked for a game show. They always gave the winners a 1099 for the retail value of what they had won. Most were lucky to sell the stuff to cover their taxes. He said since cars would last multiple years you could depreciate them over time - and not take a big 1 year hit.

[ModelA29]

Originally Posted by mhsprecher

Given the car's historical significance, I am surprised that MAFFI isn't keeping it for display purposes. I know they are out of room, but they are building more space.

Looks like it was gifted as a fund raiser:
Through the generosity of Donna Lewis, former MAFCA President and MAFFI Trustee, "Betsy" has been donated to help raise funds for the expansion of the beloved Model A Ford Museum. The car remains in the condition as restored by Red Grow in the 1950's.



In reality it's no longer the prom queen. It garnered a lot of trophies and ink throughout it's show career but now the ad would have to read "well preserved very old restoration". The new owner may consider donating it back or to different museum closer to where they live. Personally I hope they drive it - I don't like trailer queens or seeing cars rot away in museums.