Cleaning the radiator

[daveymc29]

Filled it with three gallons of distilled white vinegar. Plan to drive it for about three weeks, drain, rinse with tap water then refill with distilled water and a cup of baking soda for week or so, then drain, rinse and refill with 550-50 mix of Anti Freese and distilled water. Any comment, best wishes or condemnations?
Then drive it to the Spring Opener at Clearlake, CA.
Dave Mc Arthur

[JKY]

Three weeks for a mild acid attacking the radiator lead soldered seams seem like a lot of time to me. I'd hate to weaken the solder.

[Herb Concord Ca]

Dave we'll be going to the Spring Opener as well.

[oldspert]

Originally Posted by JKY

Three weeks for a mild acid attacking the radiator lead soldered seams seem like a lot of time to me. I'd hate to weaken the solder.

I do not recall from college chemistry class where light acidic solution would attack lead. It might clean the surface of the lead, but not penetrate the subsurface.

[Tom Grz]

I'm rebuilding a '30 pickup that hasn't run in many years. I had to remove the top tank to make some repairs and I'm glad I did because I found 3 or 4 tubes completely blocked with a greasy sludge (I assume from years of over-greasing the water pump). I started with brake cleaner and an electricians fish tape to break thru the clogs, followed by one of those metal hanging file folder things and more cleaner to open it up more. Soaked it over night in simple green and finished off with a 1/8" straw cleaning brush. Point is...I don't know how effective vinegar is on those greasy clogs, if you happen to have any.

[Bob Bidonde]

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Using distilled water is a waste of money in my opinion. Tap water is good. Better yet is a 50/50 mix of anti-freeze and tap water.

[katy]

Originally Posted by Bob Bidonde

Tap water is good.

Methinks it depends on the quality of one's local tap water. Soft, hard or very hard.

[noboD]

I think your process will work. I did a similar cleaning on a tractor several years ago. Left the vinegar in for about 3 weeks, cut grass, worked it as usual. Flushed the crap out and bingo, worked like a charm, no leaks. You will be surprised of what comes out.

[Bruce of MN]

This came out of my cooling system after running vinegar for a few days.

[ronn]

sounds like a plan. 3 weeks should be fine if you are bringing it up to temp many times.


I leave vinegar in mine for 6 weeks. start it up about 2x a week for 20 minutes and always gets a good cleaning. Have never had a problem with a leak from this process. Have done at least 10 cars this way.

[burner31]

Be very careful when draining and flushing, the vinegar and the gunk that comes out can really do a job on any painted surfaces and bare metal areas.

[The Master Cylinder]

Originally Posted by Bob Bidonde

Using distilled water is a waste of money in my opinion. Tap water is good. Better yet is a 50/50 mix of anti-freeze and tap water.

Like a gallon of distilled water is so expensive, ~$1.25 at the market. I would never put our tap water in a radiator (or battery). Way too hard.

[BillCNC]

One should visually inspect the integrity of old radiators (93+ years) when using acids. You might have a odd looking lawn sprinkle if you not careful.

I'd go 72 hours at a time neutralizing the vinegar with baking soda each time until she's clean.

Have you used 1/4 cup of Cascade liquid dishwasher soap before the vinegar yet?

Regards
Bill

[ronn]

Bill- vinegar is only 4% acid. the rest is water. no need to neutralize every 72 hours. you want it to clean............


never had a lawn sprinker from vinegar. Too much fear of the unknown.

[MilwaukeeMike]

When I did this I bought a few cases of distilled water. Fill, run, drain, repeat. At some point the drained water looks fairly clean. Finish by putting in a good coolant mix. It leached a lot of gunk out of the entire cooling system. Just do not leave it in there for long.

[Synchro909]

My experience says that there will be some grease in the system before you start your cleaning. I know a guy who tried to remove the grease by adding a fist full of laundry powder to the radiator. Unsurprisingly, it foamed into a thick, creamy substance quite quickly and the temperature rose. Bubbles don't cool an engine. As a result of his experience, I thought about that for a while trying to find a detergent that will cut grease, yet NOT foam. I settled on couple of dish washer tablets. I put them in and drove about 100 miles and by the time I got back home, the car was still running at the same temperature it was when I set out or a little cooler and the top tank looked a lot cleaner through the filler cap. The grease must be gone before vinegar is added or the vinegar will not get at the rust. I drained the system and flushed it a couple of times and only then, did I add the vinegar. I left that in there for a couple of months, running the engine every couple of days if I wasn't driving the car anyway to keep it circulating. I may have left it there longer than the optimal time because when I drained it, the water was VERY rusty coloured. I flushed it and the next lot of water was not much clearer. That convinced me that the job was not finished so I added vinegar again and repeated the process. I did that (I think) 3 or 4 times till I saw any real improvement.
Would I use that process again? Probably not but it did work.
My Brother in Law used this process and raves about it. The kit comes with enough chemical to do 2 Model A systems so if you have a friend with a similar problem, you might share a kit. There is a warning with that - FOLLOW THE DIRECTIONS. I have no interest in this company and note the prices are in Australian dollars, not $US. Every $US100 will but you about $A150.
https://liquidintelligence.com.au/pr...c-rust-remover

[daveymc29]

This will be my second round with the vinegar. I did us dish washer soap before I started the last time. Didn't see signs of grease in the water this time. Last time it was a real mess until I got the third rinse, using tap water. Filled it with distilled water, about $1.00 Gal. at the grocery. Vinegar has, however, jumper from perhaps $1.25 to about $7.00 and hard to find in my town. Better than $500.00 at the radiator shops, and some are above that a bit now days. I wasn't overheating much, didn't notice anything but a little steam and I believe that was from not advancing the spark enough. Just a precaution because of some hills to climb on the Spring opener. ( Herb, I'll call you.) I did find a problem with my points, the nut and washer has come off where all the wires meet the point arm, would die for no reason and always fired right back up. Usually after a turn. Don't see all that well and couldn't find my flashlight, so that one escaped me for several trips to coffee in the rain and cold. Pulled the distributor and imediately went for my junk bin for a nut and washer, problem solved.

[ronn]

synch- we use Dawn here. an anti colloidal detergent that we have discussed here in the past. does a heck of a job and no major foaming.


it was actually invented to degrease engines.

[Diastole]

How do you measure engine temperature?
First of all, I want to say a big thank you to all of the knowledgeable experts that have commented on this forum. There is tremendous knowledge amongst you, gentlemen, and I feel this “Thank You” is echoed by all of the other newbies on the site. Please continue to pass this knowledge down to us new to Model A’e’s as we enter our retirement years.

I purchased my first one six months ago. I have an early 1930 coupe, oval speedometer. The engine starts immediately and runs great with no knocking. There is a baffle installed in this original radiator.

I drove it for the first time last week and after about 20 minutes with some mild hills, the radiator was boiling over. I could hear steam in the engine block. The radiator was not overfilled, but the water was not as clean as it should be.

I have now cleaned the radiator and preparing for a test drive. My question is, what the best way to test for radiator function?
- I have a laser thermometer and can measure the temperature of the engine block in various locations. Is there an accepted standard of temperatures for the outside of the engine block in various locations?
- I have a digital thermometer from my wife’s kitchen where I can measure the water temperature in the top of the radiator.
- I have placed a rubber ball in the bottom of the radiator. Filled the radiator. The radiator drains to empty in 3.6 seconds which is less than the four seconds recommended by the Ford Barn.

The procedure for cleaning the radiator, y’all recommended, is what I followed pretty closely. This came from the Ford Barn experts, this thread, and others.

1. Drained all of the old water
2. Built a backflushing attachment with some new radiator hoses as recommended by Tom Endy.
3. Back flushed radiator, and engine until the water was clear and free particles. As described, I kept the pressure during engine backflush less than 15 psi.
4. Instilled a dilute soapy water solution with Dawn Dish soap. Ran the car for 30 minutes and let it soak for 24 hours.
5. Drained dirty soap solution.
6. Backflushed the engine and the radiator.
7. Instilled an oxalic acid solution in a three parts water to one part oxalic acid ratio.
8. Ran the car for 15 minutes until the engine was over 200° and the radiator fluid was greater than 170°.
9. Let the engine cool down to less than 100°. Approximately 45 minutes.
10. Drained dark green acid solution
11. Neutralized acid solution with one box of sodium bicarbonate (Arm and Hammer) in 3 gallons of water and circulated this with the engine running for five minutes
12. Let engine cool to less than 100°F
13. Back flushed radiator, and engine until clear
14. Instilled a weak green phosphoric acid solution with the same three to one ratio to give a 30% acid solution.
15. Ran engine until head temperature was 200° and radiator fluid was greater than 175°
16. Allowed the solution to sit until the engine cooled to less than 100°F. This took approximately 45 minutes.
17. Drained filthy, cloudy acid solution
18. Neutralized acid solution with one box of sodium bicarbonate (Arm and Hammer) in 3 gallons of water and circulated this with the engine running for five minutes
19. Let engine cool
20. Back flushed radiator, and engine until clear water, and free of particles.
21. Filled radiator and engine with clean water.


I do not want to give up on this radiator. But, the mentor in my Model A Club informs me that a bad radiator is a good engine killer. So, in the test drive today what do I look for? The air temperature will be 80°. There are some mild hills in my neighborhood. Idling the car will get the temperature of the radiator fluid quickly to 175° with the engine block around 200°.

Please, share some test, driving advice or any other suggestions for testing radiator function.

Thanks in advance

[katy]

Diastole, does your A have a thermostat? Usually mounted in the upper radiator hose, sometimes in an aftermarket "thermostat housing, water outlet" installed on top of the head instead of the original water outlet. If you have a thermostat it's possibly failed.