3.54 Gears in a 32-34 rear end...

[NealinCA]

I have a couple of questions about running 3.54 gears.

I just picked up a complete 33-34 rearend that has a set of 3.54 gears in it. The center section is stamped 11 39 and the ring and pinion are both Ford script gears. What cars would have used 3.54 gears in 33-34? I was kinda surprised to find these, as I always thought that high of a ratio didn't show up until 40 or 41...

Next question. Will I be OK running these in a 32 Fordor with a later flathead and 7.00-16's on the rear? What gears should I run in the transmission? Do I need a 28 or 29 tooth cluster?

Any input would be appreciated.

Thanks,

Neal

[Chris]

Wow, lucky man!!! I don't have any info but would like to know as well!!

[Chris Nelson]

Neal;
I am running 3.25 gears in my 36 & 46 convertibles with great success. I am not into burning rubber or jackrabbit starts at the stop lights, but I do have more than adequate acceleration. The delightfull part is that the engine is not cranking up the RPMs on the freeway and the mileage is pretty good.

[Richard (EV8G)]

I am running 3.54's with 7.00x16's and a 28-tooth transmission in my 34 Rdstr. I elected to use the 28-tooth because I felt that 25 or 26 tooth Zephyr gears would be too tall for starting from a stop, although they WOULD be better once I got going... Engine is a 59AB with Merc crank and a mild cam. It seems to work good, although it would be nice to have a taller 2nd gear in the mountains - have to either keep my speed up and be in 3rd or slow down and go into 2nd, which is too low = too slow. I am thinking Columbia...

[Walt Dupont--Me.]

Originally Posted by NealinCA

I have a couple of questions about running 3.54 gears.

I just picked up a complete 33-34 rearend that has a set of 3.54 gears in it. The center section is stamped 11 39 and the ring and pinion are both Ford script gears. What cars would have used 3.54 gears in 33-34? I was kinda surprised to find these, as I always thought that high of a ratio didn't show up until 40 or 41...

Next question. Will I be OK running these in a 32 Fordor with a later flathead and 7.00-16's on the rear? What gears should I run in the transmission? Do I need a 28 or 29 tooth cluster?

Any input would be appreciated.

Thanks,

Neal

You'll love the 3:54 gears with a flathead. I have 3:54 in my 31 Model A coupe with a B engine that is warmed up, I have all the power you want. If you have a chose on tran gears use 29 thooth, It might give you a little quicker take off. Walt

[blucar]

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The 3.54 gear ratio is less common in the '33-40 model Fords, however, people did buy them for cars that were mainly intended for use on the highway, especially in the more flat parts of the country. High speed ratios, 3.54/3.78, were also preferred in company cars supplied to salesmen because they provided better economy and longer engine life.
Surprisingly, the high speed ratios are more common in the standard cars in lieu of Deluxe cars.
For all round driving it is hard to beat a Columbia.... You have low ratios for quick get away and hilly areas... then tall gearing for highway use. The Columbia actually gives six gears to a vehicle because you can operate the vehicle in low-under, low high, etc., throughout all three gears in the trans and two ratios of the Columbia.
If a person opts for a Columbia get a '42-48 and have it rebuilt by one of the guys that specialize in Columbia's...
In my '36 I used my original center section, (3.78), 42-48 axle housings, 42-48 Columbia, '37 radius bars, 39 drums.. Everything bolted together like it was meant to be.
My engine is a 59 AB with lots of improvements..

[jerry grayson]

3.54 gears were optional in 33-34. I have a set of NOS that I hope to use in something.

[Richard (EV8G)]

Regarding Columbia, it is possible to "graft" a later Columbia into a late32-34 rear, thereby maintaining the original width and original (curved) rear spring.
For a 32, the torque tube and driveshaft need to be the correct length, otherwise late32-34 rears are the same.

[Charlie Stephens]

Originally Posted by NealinCA

I have a couple of questions about running 3.54 gears.

I just picked up a complete 33-34 rearend that has a set of 3.54 gears in it. The center section is stamped 11 39 and the ring and pinion are both Ford script gears. What cars would have used 3.54 gears in 33-34? I was kinda surprised to find these, as I always thought that high of a ratio didn't show up until 40 or 41...

Next question. Will I be OK running these in a 32 Fordor with a later flathead and 7.00-16's on the rear? What gears should I run in the transmission? Do I need a 28 or 29 tooth cluster?

Any input would be appreciated.

Thanks,

Neal

Neal,

I am surprised that nobody cautioned you that the gears from the '33-'34 rear end will work only in the late '32 rear end (the ones with the scallops where the torque tube joins the rear end). The late rear ends are hard to find.

Charlie Stephens

[NealinCA]

Originally Posted by Charlie Stephens

Neal,

I am surprised that nobody cautioned you that the gears from the '33-'34 rear end will work only in the late '32 rear end (the ones with the scallops where the torque tube joins the rear end). The late rear ends are hard to find.

Charlie Stephens

Isn't it a late 32 rear end the same (other than driveshaft length) as a 33-34 rear? I noticed the axle bells have an 18- part number...

I was just going to shorten the 34 driveshaft and use the complete rearend.

Neal

[John R]

The late 32 rear axle is the exactly same as the 33-34 - no difference. A 33-34 drive shaft and torque tube will have to be shortened about 8.5 inches. Also, the hole for the speedometer gear would have to be rotated to exactly match a late 32 setup.

[Dennis (EV8G)]

Neal,

My green '32 PU has 3.54 r&p (B rear) with 700-16 rear tires, 28 tooth trans and stock B engine. It is very driveable and cruises very nice once up to speed. If that poor 4-cyl can get it moving you'll have no problems with a late V8.

- Dennis -

[G.M.]

Walts "poor" 4 cylinder will beat most V/8s for the first 100 yards. G.M.

[Richard (EV8G)]

Originally Posted by John R

The late 32 rear axle is the exactly same as the 33-34 - no difference. A 33-34 drive shaft and torque tube will have to be shortened about 8.5 inches. Also, the hole for the speedometer gear would have to be rotated to exactly match a late 32 setup.

The speedo drive location on the early "B" rear (torque tube) is the same as needed for a late 32 rear; when making one from a 33-34, need to rotate it accordingly. 32 is the only "early v8" year where the speedo cable goes to the RH/Passenger side, and cannot just reverse the direction of the turtle; the speedo will then only read in reverse... The threaded cable end MUST face counter-clockwise as viewed from the rear.

[blucar]

Originally Posted by Richard (EV8G)

Regarding Columbia, it is possible to "graft" a later Columbia into a late32-34 rear, thereby maintaining the original width and original (curved) rear spring.
For a 32, the torque tube and driveshaft need to be the correct length, otherwise late32-34 rears are the same.

As we all know, or should know.. the radius bars for the '37-48 rear ends bolt to the back of the backing plates, where-as the earlier bars are attached to a bracket that is welded to the axle housing.
The center section containing the ring/pinion will generally work with any Columbia. The Columbia's use stock Ford axles and a stock Ford left axle housing. The Columbia's were first offered as an option by Ford on the '36 Fords, therefore, the problem to over come would be the Columbia's right axle housing.
The big problem would be the larger OD size and length of the Columbia axle housing. The housing could be shortened, care would have to be taken to not compromise the position of the inner axle seal which is larger than the stock Ford inner axle seal.
NOTHING IS IMPOSSIBLE, SOMETHINGS JUST TAKE LONGER AND COST MORE.
Many years ago I had a Columbia that was a '35-36 on the left side and '37-40 on the right side. A bracket had been fabricated for the Columbia side to attach the radius bar. The whole affair looked pretty hooky, but it worked..
It has always been my understanding that the '42-48 Columbia's are stronger than the earlier units, this might not be true. I would imagine that the earlier units can be beefed up.
I know that a lot of the EFV8 people don't care for the Columbia's, for my money, they beat the hell out of the after market drive-line units. Other than a failure of a spacer washer in my Columbia, I have never had a problem with it in over 50 years.

[blucar]

Foot note to the Columbia issue;
Auburn, Cord, Duesenberg,(ACD) purchased Columbia Axle Company in the early 1930's. Starting in 1932 the Columbia 2 spd rear ends were standard equipment on the Auburns.
The Columbia was a factory option on the '36 Lincoln Zephyr's. The Columbia's were a dealer installed option on the '36 and later Fords.
The point here-in is.... With the power and weight of the Auburns, 6, 8 and 12 cyln engines, ACD must have figured the assembly was pretty stout to stand up to the power and weight of their cars..

[jerry grayson]

Actually, a Columbia was available for the 33-34 Ford.

[CWPASADENA]

Originally Posted by blucar

The big problem would be the larger OD size and length of the Columbia axle housing. The housing could be shortened, care would have to be taken to not compromise the position of the inner axle seal which is larger than the stock Ford inner axle seal.
NOTHING IS IMPOSSIBLE, SOMETHINGS JUST TAKE LONGER AND COST MORE.

It is becoming quite common to re-make the right hand "Late" Columbia Axle Housing into an "Earlier" axle housing configuration.

I have had a "Late" Columbia, that has had the R/H Housing re-configured, in my '34 P.U. for more then 40 years now with no problems what so ever. I did the engineering but had Cook Machine in Santa Fe Springs do the modification of the housing. I even re-machined the cast iron Columbia Housing to fit the narrower '34 Center Section. I understand now there is a spacer ring being made that will allow the "Late" cast iron Columbia Housing to properly fit the narrow "Early" Center Section. You just take the thickness of the spacer into consideration when re-working the R/H Housing.

A few monthes ago, I re-worked a '46-'48 R/H housing into the '37-'39 Configuration. This time, I did the work my self as I now have a big enough lathe and TIG capabilities in my shop which I did not have 40 years ago. There are others who do this work on a regular basis and it is not that expensive.

As far as the size of the inner axle seal, it is my understanding that they are the same as the stock Ford seals. Columbia used the ends of the stock Ford Axle housings to make up their housings. The seal regester is in this part and not in the formed tube part that Columbia made. If you look at the end of the '46-48 Columbia axle housing, the arm that carriers the spring and shock mounting will have the Ford Part Number on it, just like the Ford Housings. I suspect Columbia bought this part from Ford and used it for their housings. Earlier Columbia's may be different but I suspect not.

Anyway, properly done, a "Late" Columbia in an Early Ford really works well.

This is my experience,

Chris.

[Kerk]

What year Columbia had the round end on the outer end ? Kerk

[Lawson Cox]

Originally Posted by jerry grayson

3.54 gears were optional in 33-34. I have a set of NOS that I hope to use in something.

You can give them to your old buddy here and make him happy. LOL