Prices going through the roof?

[ronn]

or is it just inflation?????????

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  1931 Ford Model A Model A
  Opens in a new window or tabPre-Owned
  $20,000,000.00
  Year: 1931or Best Offer
  Miles: 1,431Free local pickup
  Make: Ford11 watchers
  
  
  
  
  
  

[wrndln]

Just offer them $10,000,000,since they are offering "best offer"! Of course you could be out bid.

[jb-ob]

Or worst still by offering $10K you might own it !!

[ModelA29]

It's obvious this guy has access to some pretty powerful hallucinogenic drugs......

[midgetracer]

Sometimes the zero key gets stuck, but that is no problem since zero is nothing.

[Roxo]

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The Dollar ain't worth what it was just a few years ago. Now it takes more Dollars to purchase a nice model A.

[nkaminar]

The selling or highest bid prices on Bring A Trailer are a good indication of what the real selling prices are.

[ronn]

nk I tend to use sold prices on ebay first, they are a bit more realistic.


If I use BAT, I find myself feeling pretty wealthy!

[Joe K]

In general I put the Model A pricing as "similar to a new car of similar use off the lot - cash."

There are exceptions. Having won "fine point" might easily double that. Or one of the "rarer" models originally produced.

$18K until recently would buy you a pretty fine Toyota Corolla. And a similar restored Model A equivalent.

I confess I have not priced new cars in at least 10 years though.

Joe K

[ronn]

you can double your toyota price Joe, for a base model.............


although I would agree on 18k for an alright A. I also agree with you on fine points.
a bargain at double.

[Hitman]

Originally Posted by nkaminar

The selling or highest bid prices on Bring A Trailer are a good indication of what the real selling prices are.

No. BaT are very much like the Barrett Jackson auctions which are a few weeks away. They’re both far from reality.

[Smokedtires]

Maybe that's in pesos? ��

[WHN]

Originally Posted by ronn

you can double your toyota price Joe, for a base model.............


although I would agree on 18k for an alright A. I also agree with you on fine points.
a bargain at double.

For what it’s worth. I second RONN’s comments.

Generally, pricing is all about how much the buyer wants a particular car.

Enjoy

[BRENT in 10-uh-C]

Ronn, I can tell you that many restoration materials & parts have doubled, -and/or tripled in the last couple of years. If you want a shock, price a decent set of Model-A tires & tubes now. Price out paint materials for another shock. Or price upholstery materials, ...or ?? The bottom line from my perspective is that it is costing WAY more to own collector vehicles in 2024 due to inflation and supply issues since Covid times.

[Canton_Model_A's]

Originally Posted by BRENT in 10-uh-C

Ronn, I can tell you that many restoration materials & parts have doubled, -and/or tripled in the last couple of years. If you want a shock, price a decent set of Model-A tires & tubes now. Price out paint materials for another shock. Or price upholstery materials, ...or ?? The bottom line from my perspective is that it is costing WAY more to own collector vehicles in 2024 due to inflation and supply issues since Covid times.

For example, I have ordered a tire from Snyder's. Good-Year 4.5x21" and before shipping, it is $330. I have to get 4 more of them, this is gonna be painful!

[ronn]

I completely agree Brent, materials are crazy. esp paint...........


regarding tires- I did mention buying a set of 4 from Universal (aka Coker) for a total of 369. For a guy that never drives his cars, thats fine. Now adding up the total of 4 radials, well thats a diff story and understood, if you really use your cars.


There is Maaco, not so cheap anymore and then there are custom paint shops. The 2nd will require a 2nd mortgage on your house! no kidding.


I still think you can get a decent A under 20k. No it wont be an award winner, etc. but still a decent car. Rarely do As fetch 30s- on up for a basic model. Rarer models, sure.
Even many of them have come down, amid our inflation.

[Tim Ayers]

Originally Posted by smokedtires

maybe that's in pesos? ��

lol!!!

[BRENT in 10-uh-C]

Originally Posted by ronn

I completely agree Brent, materials are crazy. esp paint...........


regarding tires- I did mention buying a set of 4 from Universal (aka Coker) for a total of 369. For a guy that never drives his cars, thats fine. Now adding up the total of 4 radials, well thats a diff story and understood, if you really use your cars.


There is Maaco, not so cheap anymore and then there are custom paint shops. The 2nd will require a 2nd mortgage on your house! no kidding.


I still think you can get a decent A under 20k. No it wont be an award winner, etc. but still a decent car. Rarely do As fetch 30s- on up for a basic model. Rarer models, sure.
Even many of them have come down, amid our inflation.

I guess the real question is what is the definition of 'decent'??

In my mind, the term 'decent' as it applies to a Model-A is a vehicle that does not need any type of mechanical repairs to be able to Start, Stop, and Steer reliably. A decent Model-A is one that the driver nor the occupants need to worry whether they will get to their destination without delays nor worries. After all, Model-As were 'decent' cars when they were new or slightly used, so that expectation should apply today.

As for prices falling, I think that factors when a Buyer looks at an older restoration and determine it has not been well maintained and now is going to require larger sums of money to bring the vehicle back to a 'decent' condition. For example, a 'restored' Model-A that sold for $30k around 5+ years ago that now needs a complete set of tires & tubes, a new battery, the gas tank restored, along with a full maintenance on chassis mechanicals will see that repair bill in excess of $10k if professionally performed. This scenario happens all too often as buyers seek a collector car purchase.

So yes, that vehicle that sold for $30k is now being sold in the lower $20k range ...however is the value of the vehicles dropping, -or is the condition of the vehicles dropping??

[Tim Ayers]

Originally Posted by BRENT in 10-uh-C

I guess the real question is what is the definition of 'decent'??

In my mind, the term 'decent' as it applies to a Model-A is a vehicle that does not need any type of mechanical repairs to be able to Start, Stop, and Steer reliably. A decent Model-A is one that the driver nor the occupants need to worry whether they will get to their destination without delays nor worries. After all, Model-As were 'decent' cars when they were new or slightly used, so that expectation should apply today.

As for prices falling, I think that factors when a Buyer looks at an older restoration and determine it has not been well maintained and now is going to require larger sums of money to bring the vehicle back to a 'decent' condition. For example, a 'restored' Model-A that sold for $30k around 5+ years ago that now needs a complete set of tires & tubes, a new battery, the gas tank restored, along with a full maintenance on chassis mechanicals will see that repair bill in excess of $10k if professionally performed. This scenario happens all too often as buyers seek a collector car purchase.

So yes, that vehicle that sold for $30k is now being sold in the lower $20k range ...however is the value of the vehicles dropping, -or is the condition of the vehicles dropping??

Why would a 5 year old restoration need the gas tank redone? Let's say the previous owner was smart and used non-ethanol gas and kept the tank full

[BRENT in 10-uh-C]

Originally Posted by Tim Ayers

Why would a 5 year old restoration need the gas tank redone? Let's say the previous owner was smart and used non-ethanol gas and kept the tank full

Great question Tim! I will tell you that over 50% of the gas tanks we have sent to us have been removed from a 'restored' Model-A. Once opened, we find most of them are full of rust. Maybe the issue is the definition of 'restored'? Maybe the issue is many mechanics/restorers use the advice from social media sites about how to clean Model-A gas tanks filled with rust & debris?


As for the smart owner using non-ethanol fuel and keeping a full tank, ...that really does not factor in based on my experiences. Fuel has additives (-including oxygenizers) which allow oxygen to feed the rust inside the tank.

[ronn]

Brent, as Ive alluded to many times in the past- you are in a whole different drivers seat from most of us.
Not that that is a bad thing. You have a totally diff perspective to the hobby and know more about model As then the majority of us combined, will ever know.
I just state my facts and opinions from keen observation of the last 50 yrs. My father bought a T when I was 9 yrs old and Ive been hooked like a bass since. Not a day goes by that Im not on ebay, Ford Barn, FB or CL. I am always roaming the media
and come to my own conclusions.
When you look at a car, you see tons of work that needs to be performed, from a restorers eye. I look at cars quite differently. I accept worn out paint, or bald tires as "nuances" or patina if you will.
So as Keith from Hampshire says, if you guys dont want to buy, there are always plenty of rodders that will pay. I am in his camp. Everything has potential, from a rust bucket to the best in the country. Its all in perspective of the viewer......
I dont look at everything needing a restoration. As a matter of fact, I prefer weathered worn and old.

[ModelA29]

When I was shopping (Sept 22) ALL the cars in SoCal were being snapped up by flippers. They'd buy anything and add $5-10 grand to the price. Junkers were 8,000 and a decent looking car was 25+. I found my coupe 200 miles away at 15 delivered I couldn't squawk.

[burner31]

[QUOTE=ronn;2282192]I completely agree Brent, materials are crazy. esp paint...........


Way back in the day I worked at Earl Sheib's body and paint, and yes, we would paint any car for $19.99...what the hell happened?

[ronn]

burner- you painted some of my cars (sheib) and when I went to pick them up I said............


what the hell happened!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!




LOL!!!!!!!!!!!! did you guys use a mop?

[Y-Blockhead]

Originally Posted by ronn

burner- you painted some of my cars (sheib) and when I went to pick them up I said............


what the hell happened!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

LOL!!!!!!!!!!!! did you guys use a mop?

LMFAO... I remember going with my Aunt to pick up her mid 50's Buick from Earl Scheib. They painted the car alright... wheel, tires, everything. Looked like a big gray whale.

I didn't know Earl Scheib was still in business until I just now goggles them.

[lrf]

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Let's see; an interior is $5000, a paint job is $5000, an engine is $5000. So a $20,000 Model A is $5000 for the completed body, fenders, etc. Suddenly, it's seems that that $20000 is a deal! IMO. LRF

[BRENT in 10-uh-C]

Originally Posted by lrf

Let's see; an interior is $5000, a paint job is $5000, an engine is $5000. So a $20,000 Model A is $5000 for the completed body, fenders, etc. Suddenly, it's seems that that $20000 is a deal! IMO. LRF

This is where I think a lot of people do not understand...

Is an interior really $5k? It is easy to look at a catalog and see an upholstery kit is $3k-$4k, ...however we often tend to overlook items such painting the Mouldings, buying new seat springs, fabricating new seat wood, replacing the glass, floor mats/carpet, door & window crank handles, other deteriorated wood (which causes upholstery tacking issues), etc. This also does not factor in any labor if someone needs professional assistance doing the install.

In today's economy, decent paint & materials alone will likely cost in excess of $5k, -BUT, when we are budgeting we tend to forget about the costs of stripping the old paint or rust, plus costs for any sheetmetal repairs needed. Also, budgeteers must factor in Wood since that is approaching 100 years old and generally needs attention too.

This thing about engine being $5k, ...yes however it is the little things (new water pump, hoses, clamps, fan belt, new exh manifold, distributor rebuilt or replaced, carburetor rebuilt, bolts & fasteners, and so on where before you know it, you've well exceeded that $5k budget in that department too.

We also forgot to factor in other areas of safety such as Brakes, Steering, Tires & tubes, Electrical, etc. which all adds up very quickly.

My point is all of these items I have listed above are requirements (-at least in my view) to have what folks generally would consider a 'decent' Model-A that can go on drives & tours without causing stress for the driver and occupants. Both Buyers and Sellers who understand this realize that the day of the $10k, -or even $15k Model-A is not reality any longer.

[Tim Ayers]

Originally Posted by lrf

Let's see; an interior is $5000, a paint job is $5000, an engine is $5000. So a $20,000 Model A is $5000 for the completed body, fenders, etc. Suddenly, it's seems that that $20000 is a deal! IMO. LRF

** I just saw Bret mentioned this as well.


If you can paint a car for $5,000 with all the necessary product, then you are lucky. Decent product alone is close to if not more than $5,000 these days.

[WHN]

Originally Posted by BRENT in 10-uh-C

This is where I think a lot of people do not understand...

Is an interior really $5k? It is easy to look at a catalog and see an upholstery kit is $3k-$4k, ...however we often tend to overlook items such painting the Mouldings, buying new seat springs, fabricating new seat wood, replacing the glass, floor mats/carpet, door & window crank handles, other deteriorated wood (which causes upholstery tacking issues), etc. This also does not factor in any labor if someone needs professional assistance doing the install.

In today's economy, decent paint & materials alone will likely cost in excess of $5k, -BUT, when we are budgeting we tend to forget about the costs of stripping the old paint or rust, plus costs for any sheetmetal repairs needed. Also, budgeteers must factor in Wood since that is approaching 100 years old and generally needs attention too.

This thing about engine being $5k, ...yes however it is the little things (new water pump, hoses, clamps, fan belt, new exh manifold, distributor rebuilt or replaced, carburetor rebuilt, bolts & fasteners, and so on where before you know it, you've well exceeded that $5k budget in that department too.

We also forgot to factor in other areas of safety such as Brakes, Steering, Tires & tubes, Electrical, etc. which all adds up very quickly.

My point is all of these items I have listed above are requirements (-at least in my view) to have what folks generally would consider a 'decent' Model-A that can go on drives & tours without causing stress for the driver and occupants. Both Buyers and Sellers who understand this realize that the day of the $10k, -or even $15k Model-A is not reality any longer.

Right on point! It’s a hobby. For most of us, it’s not really an investment.

Mutual Funds average 7 to 8 percent yearly return on average.

[gz]

So far at the Kissimmee Mecum Auction, the average price of a Model A is about 18,000-22,000.00. These are common pickups, etc. A "stock" homemade Model A speedster (not great) sold for about 22,000.00. These are basically "very average" cars. A few in the 12,000.00 range but these are rough.

Model As are still very popular with all generations!!!

[jeepguy1948]

I’m in wester Washington and at least around here you can get a nice Phaeton for $20k and a decent Tudor for $10K

[Brentwood Bob]

How about a set of rebuilt OEM matching hydraulic shocks?
I guess price is the reason I am not seeing interest in buying mine.
Few have the need I am guessing. Mine are equivalent to several different sets of the late Robert Paul, IMHO that I have. I have been inside one of his that leaked. Have a second one coming.

[JayJay]

Originally Posted by Brentwood Bob

How about a set of rebuilt OEM matching hydraulic shocks?
I guess price is the reason I am not seeing interest in buying mine.
Few have the need I am guessing. Mine are equivalent to several different sets of the late Robert Paul, IMHO that I have. I have been inside one of his that leaked. Have a second one coming.

Bob - I think the latter reason (need) is more likely. Compared to the "good old days" of the 60's and '70's, I think today there are just not that many cars being restored, at least for the first time. Back then, when you and I got started, I think probably about half the club members were actively restoring cars. Now, not so much. For example, in my current club, we have over 100 members on the roster, with probably half quite active, but there are at most a half dozen cars under restoration. The rest have already been restored, and their owners are now basking in their efforts of 40-50 years ago. I think that you've also seen the aging of the hobby as well, there are just not that many young folks (and by young I'm thinking less than say 50 years old) entering it and starting a restoration today as there were back then.

But there will always be a perhaps low but nevertheless steady need for folks who rebuild original parts. I can think of garage-based vendors for brakes, speedometers and generators who continue to provide these services, and no reason shock absorbers can't be there too.

[Brentwood Bob]

Thanks JayJay. I am still plugging away. I hope to be able in the near future to test each shock when completed. And preset them. Always another level of complexity to work thru.
Looking for the KRWilson test arm and test weight for same, as shown in the service bulletins.
Shocks still wear out, or leak.

[lrf]

I hate to disagree with some here but I just bought paint, primer, reducers, thinner all for $600. The paint dealer even gave me suggestions in painting, how to set the gun, etc. A club member who has painted many a car used this acrylic enamel and praised it highly. I'm no pro at painting but I have painted one of my "A"s and it turned out very good (not for show). Good paint is out there at a somewhat reasonable price. Long gone is the $50 paint. Shop around and buy from an auto paint store, not E-bay. IMO

[Randy in ca]

Originally Posted by wrndln

Just offer them $10,000,000,since they are offering "best offer"! Of course you could be out bid.

Originally Posted by jb-ob

Or worst still by offering $10K you might own it !!

-
Says in the eBay writeup that the high offer is "12 millions"

[ronn]

I’m in wester Washington and at least around here you can get a nice Phaeton for $20k and a decent Tudor for $10K



same in NJ and most everywhere.


these threads are always focused on todays costs to do a job on your A. The numbers are often correct, however, everyone looks at these cars differently.
This hobby isnt about job by job restoration for everyone here. and no, average model As dont go for 50k 100k or even 200k as some would allude.


bottom line is its far cheaper to buy the best model A you can afford then to farm out restoration. Im pretty sure everyone on here already knows that.
A good A can still be bought for 10-20k. If you think youre getting 20k for your average tudor sedan, you'll be enjoying it for a good long time.

[Brendan]

i guess they don't wont to sell it

[ronn]

well they did create this thread............


regarding shocks- they remind me of a new roof on a house. Lots of people put the roof off till it leaks, because the gratification just isnt there for the price. Now when it comes to a new kitchen- everyone must have one.


shocks or paint? paint wins every time!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[WHN]

RONN is right on.

Radiator Stone Guard, side mounted spares, trunks, cowl lights, paint, speed parts, the list goes on.

Correctly rebuilt front end and brakes, shocks, good springs, tires, gas tank issues, radiator issues. These for a lot of owners take a back seat to jewelry and shine.

From my experience and 60 plus years around these cars. I would say that by far the majority of Model A’s we see out and about need real help with there running gear.

Not only is this sad, but also unsafe.

[nkaminar]

A nice Franklin just went on BAT for $9,000.

[ronn]

certainly sounds cheap enough- but it is a 26, not that desirable and only 32 hp.


def not a big demand car. still nice though. about model A tudor $


The Franklin club is a wonderful organization and for an orphan car, they are pretty supportive. Lots of treks and yrly get togethers. I just rejoined last week and hadnt been a member for over 20 yrs. I am hoping one day to pick up an early one.
The ones from the early 1930s could put out over 100hp, depending on the model. They even made a few v 12s.

[trevorsworth]

I have watched A prices skyrocket over the time I've been involved in the hobby. A few years ago I feel like I regularly saw complete but non-running project As under $2500 while rough runners could be had in the low 4s. I gave 5 for a running coupe that needed brakes and a complete cosmetic restoration; coupes in the same shape are now going for twice that...

I just gave $4500 for an AA and feel like I got a smokin deal on it in the current market, but a few years ago I think it would have been like a $2500 truck. Parts have jumped too.

I remember hearing people say the prices on As were dropping and would continue to come down because people are less and less interested in these cars but I don't think that's the case. I know one thing for sure - it's a great time to have a big stash of Model A stuff.

[Dave Mellor NJ]

Hershey spaces are going up to $100. It wasn't too long ago when they went up to $90

[dave in australia]

I don't think 20K USD for the Coupe is over the top. That would be around 30K AUD, which is about right from what I've seen here in Oz. Remember it's 2024, not 1974.

[Model "A" Fords]

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I bought my 165-C in 1967 for $350.00 Canadian dollars. Through the years people have told me that they had a Model A and sold it for $50.00. Did I get ripped off?

[ronn]

I bought my 165-C in 1967 for $350.00 Canadian dollars. Through the years people have told me that they had a Model A and sold it for $50.00. Did I get ripped off?



No, you paid market


Time has been your friend............

[MickyD]

In 2015 I bought my 28 Roadster. I paid $16,000 and will have invested another $16,000 by time
my Mitchell overddrive and synchro mesh transmission is installed. I probably would be lucky to get $20,000 for it. Yet it is insured for $26,000. Go figure.

[ronn]

do you get money back when you play golf???????????????

[Model "A" Fords]

Originally Posted by ronn

do you get money back when you play golf???????????????

One time crossing into the USA to race my Iceboat I was asked how much money I could get if I won? I said, I don't get money, I spend it!

[Elmo Rodge]

Originally Posted by Model "A" Fords

One time crossing into the USA to race my Iceboat I was asked how much money I could get if I won? I said, I don't get money, I spend it!

Gee. Just like Bonneville.
Wayno

[BRENT in 10-uh-C]

Originally Posted by Model "A" Fords

One time crossing into the USA to race my Iceboat I was asked how much money I could get if I won? I said, I don't get money, I spend it!

We are racers also, and many of us have been stopped by DOT in the US, and they like to use that same analogy of "Do you win money, ...and if so, you are a business and a commercial venture." Their mindset is we should be subject to Commercial Motor Vehicle laws.

Now, we carry this document (https://www.irs.gov/newsroom/earning...-or-a-business) with us in the truck and can show it to the officer(s) if this is brought up. Explaining the IRS is actually the governmental agency that determines what is, -and isn't a business. We also explain that 390.3(f)3 in their own manual states that CMV laws do not pertain to individuals hauling their own property when not in the furtherance of a business. Explaining to the officer that now they know this and if (s)he chooses to write us a ticket or detain us, that we will sue in accordance with 18 U.S.C. § 242. Section 242. We have all of this in an envelope and are all too excited to 'whip it out'. Unfortunately, we have only been able to use it once and that leo appeared to be casually fishing and was never serious.


Ohh, and wow!! Amazing how many times Ronn's thread topic has wandered.

[ronn]

Ohh, and wow!! Amazing how many times Ronn's thread topic has wandered.



and you take the hook each and every time. good fun!!!!!!!!!!!

[nkaminar]

Here is an inexpensive car in Tennessee. It need some work but not anything that a Model A owner can't handle. Drive it home. Stop by to see Brent on the way.

https://chattanooga.craigslist.org/c...709181331.html

[nkaminar]

1930 Tudor sold yesterday on BaT for $11,000. Car is in good shape. Has V8 wheels. Color is retail red.