Head / Stud Removal

[Bill O'Brien]

Well.. curses upon all of you who have great things to say about the Brumfield 5.9 head! Now... as I approach a year of restoration and getting ready to start my A I read on here about how great the 5.9 head is... so... I need one! I figure do it now while I am in the 'restoration' mode.

I have read all of the posts that I can find on here regarding head removal and stud removal. I am going to try the 'turning the engine over' with the head nuts removed to pop the head off. Should I soak the studs with some PB prior to attempting this? Shoudl I give it a couple of whacks with a rubber mallet prior to trying to pop the head off? If this method does not work I will order a head removal tool to get the head off.

To remove the studs do you do the 'double nut' method to get them out? What are the odds that the studs come out without an issue. I know this is tough / impossible to answer. I don't even know the history on my engine and if it has been rebuilt. (My guess is yes...)

I know I wil probably have to buy a torch and end up heating one or two to get them free. Hopefully it will not be much of an issue!!!

Any tips or advice is greatly appreciated!!!

[Aerocraft]

Bill Stipe of Plymouth, WI makes a great head removal tool that is sold by most of the suppliers. Removing the studs may take a lot of tricks and I will defer to Larry Brumfield for the best advice. Gar Williams

[brucesp]

I just pulled a stuck head off my Model A last week. The head removal tool is a must if it's really stuck. Then once it's off, use a cam-operated stud extractor. The vendors sell them, but you can get one at HF for $5 (yeah, I know). They tend to chew up the studs, but you'll need a new grade-8 stud set for the high compression head anyway.

The stud remover alone may not do the trick. You'll probably need to heat and quench the studs a couple of times to free them up. Don't use too much torque with either the stud remover or the double-nut trick. It's no fun to drill out a broken one.

['29wagon]

Bill I just went through this process, it was fairly easy going for me.
I managed to get the nuts loose a couple of months ago after soaking them in diesel fuel, actually brushing it on almost daily.
once the nuts were loose I brought them up to the top of the stud and gave each one a wack.
repeating the soaking and just walking away from it, diesel needs time.
making sure to pour it in every hole in the head, everywhere.
once time gave in, the head actually came right off , a got up on the frame and straddled it and well it game right off. I did screw in some standard gas pipe into #1 and #4 spark plug hole with a T on the end for something to grab.
then I removed the gasket and took a wire brush to each stud at the block surface.
replacing the nuts to the top of the studs and giving each one a wack with a hammer , not a rubber mallet .
then double nutting them and vice grips tight at the base I managed to get all but one out , a turn then back on then off and on again not to stretch any to extreme . they do heat up from this friction.
the one stubborn one , I repeated the process of soaking it in diesel , wacking the nut and then after a couple of days I cleaned up that and dabbed in some BREAK FREE. this is actually a great gun cleaner , PB doesn't seem to satisfy me.
I didn't feel a torch was too great of an idea .
so not forcing it, that last one came right out , not to force it . the on and off method . just one crack in the surface at the center water jacket inlet headed toward the stud hole #1 . something to repair .
good luck.

[Dennis Pereira]

Originally Posted by Bill O'Brien

Well.. curses upon all of you who have great things to say about the Brumfield 5.9 head! Now... as I approach a year of restoration and getting ready to start my A I read on here about how great the 5.9 head is... so... I need one! I figure do it now while I am in the 'restoration' mode.

I have read all of the posts that I can find on here regarding head removal and stud removal. I am going to try the 'turning the engine over' with the head nuts removed to pop the head off. Should I soak the studs with some PB prior to attempting this? Shoudl I give it a couple of whacks with a rubber mallet prior to trying to pop the head off? If this method does not work I will order a head removal tool to get the head off.

To remove the studs do you do the 'double nut' method to get them out? What are the odds that the studs come out without an issue. I know this is tough / impossible to answer. I don't even know the history on my engine and if it has been rebuilt. (My guess is yes...)

I know I wil probably have to buy a torch and end up heating one or two to get them free. Hopefully it will not be much of an issue!!!

Any tips or advice is greatly appreciated!!!

I believe it was Dave in Mn That gave me a tip that worked great once you have the head off heat the studs cherry red at the base and then apply paraffin smokes a little but sure makes it easy to remove with a stud removal tool. Steady pressure do not lift up or press down or you will be asking how to remove a broken stud ask me how I know.

[PC/SR]

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I have found that a small 6" or so pipe wrench grips better than the cam type stud removers.

[James Rogers]

Originally Posted by PC/SR

I have found that a small 6" or so pipe wrench grips better than the cam type stud removers.

I agree, all I use is a 6" pipe wrench to loosen the stud and then spin it out with the puller.

[Kevin - Illinois]

Originally Posted by James Rogers

I agree, all I use is a 6" pipe wrench to loosen the stud and then spin it out with the puller.

I used a pipe wrench also after a few days of acetone & ATF soaking. I had one I had to heat up though. Just be sure to keep the wrench as close as possible to the base of the studs.

[Dave in MN]

Originally Posted by Dennis Pereira

I believe it was Dave in Mn That gave me a tip that worked great once you have the head off heat the studs cherry red at the base and then apply paraffin smokes a little but sure makes it easy to remove with a stud removal tool. Steady pressure do not lift up or press down or you will be asking how to remove a broken stud ask me how I know.

I brought the previous post forward to this thread for a bit more detail on the procedure....

I have found the wax method to work quite well on stubborn head and manifold bolts.
The wax method I use:
Heat the stuck stud cherry red as close to the block surface as possible without doing damage to the block. Let the stud cool to the point that when a candle or paraffin canning wax block is held against the stud the wax flows down quickly to the block surface without producing excessive smoke. If the stud is to hot, it will flow but much of it goes up in smoke. At this point I will strike the top of the stud a couple times with a hammer and then apply wax again. Apply enough wax so it puddles around the base of the stud. When done correctly, the wax will flow between the threads and lubricate the connection. Let everything cool to the point you do not burn skin if you touch the stud, or better yet, close to room temp, and then try to remove the stud. Most of the time it will back right out. If it is still stuck, repeat the process. I have only broken two studs in over 350 removed since I was clued in to the "wax method" by fellow Club member Mr. Frisk. What I like about the "wax" method is the quick results. With repeating the process a second time and allowing for the cool down times, it only takes a total time of an hour to have the most stubborn studs out. I know a lot of other methods are used to remove stubborn studs and they probably work well also. When I am stripping blocks down for rebuilding, I do not have days to allow penetrants to do their job. Most car owners want their rebuilt engines back ASAP.
Good Day!
Dave in MN
www.durableperformance.net

[Bruce of MN]

Dave pulled a couple for me and it worked as easy as he says.

[Bill O'Brien]

For the re-installation, what is the proper height for the studs off of the top of the block??

Should I put some RTV or Loctite on the threads of the studs??

Thanks gents!!

['29wagon]

measure your head, gasket, nut and washer, then add another quarter inch. form what I know, at least two threads should be visible above a tightened nut . then torque it. the stud will stretch and you will need to torque it again after running up the temperature.
follow the correct sequence .

[Glenn C.]

I would question the need for using washers under the nuts. One thread above the nuts should be sufficient.

[PC/SR]

A small 6 inch pipe wrench , usually available at Sears, is easier to use and has a better grip than the cam type, and is cheaper. You can get a grip flush at the block where the torque is needed.

[pat in Santa Cruz]

do NOT use RTV or locktite on the threads. Some anti seize on the block end threads will help get them out in the future when you have to. The nuts and top threads should be lightly oiled, as in almost wiped dry.

Originally Posted by Bill O'Brien

For the re-installation, what is the proper height for the studs off of the top of the block??

Should I put some RTV or Loctite on the threads of the studs??

Thanks gents!!

[Tom Wesenberg]

Snap-On makes the best stud puller. It grips by clamping down all the way around the threads with what could be described as a split nut with a cone shaped outside. Tightening the nut on the tool against the cone shape puts a lot of clamping forced on the stud. This tool puts all the twisting force along the centerline of the stud, not off to the side like a pipe wrench or cam type stud remover. The only drawback is the price of the tool.

I do agree that a small pipe wrench is better than the cam type stud remover. The cam type I bought at H/F didn't grab at all due to a poor design or defect. I still need to return it.

If I use a pipe wrench, I like to use two of them (or curved jaw Vice Grips) placed 180* apart, so the twisting force is in line with the stud, rather than off to the side.

If a stud breaks, don't drill it. Use the welded flat washer and nut method as described on Vince's website. Sometimes I have to weld the nut and washer twice, but so far this method has always removed the broken stud.

[Bill O'Brien]

Thanks for the replies! I am still waiting for my head puller to get the process rolling.

Tom, do you know the part number for the Snap On stud remover? Sounds like a good investment!!

[Bill O'Brien]

Tom or anyone else who might know, do you know the part number for the Snap On stud remover? My studs have some SERIOUS rust and will need that type of remover.

I looked at the Snap On site and there are a number of different ones... not sure what would be best.

Thanks!!

[d.j. moordigian]

Bill,

I have set# cg515b plus assorted metric an dowel pin collets...the basic tool with
no collect is #cg500-2.......check ebay....these dudes are not cheap.

Dudley

[Steve Wastler]

I have used both the stud remover and the pipe wrench, I think I prefer the pipe wrench to the stud remover, as I have had a better "feel" of the stud with the pipe wrench. Especially with the very stubborn studs. Both work well. I don't like the double nut method, too easy to twist the stud off. JMHO