The Ford Barn

ken ct · 09-06-2011, 03:27 PM

You must have a blown power valve by now with all that backfireing through the carb. The inner caps wire holes are numbered rt side 1,2,3,4 and you must read these #'s right side up. / Left side rightside up #'s will be 5,6,7,8 these #'s tell you where the wires go.ken ct. Whats the gap at the points with the coil screwed to the dist.

Don · 09-06-2011, 03:38 PM

I think hoop might have something worth checking because ive done that.and there should be no play in timing gears been there also.

Don · 09-06-2011, 03:40 PM

Hoop might be on to something, been there,

JM 35 Sedan · 09-06-2011, 04:04 PM

What kind of info did the owner provide? Was this car sitting for a number of years prior to him trying to start it? Was it possibly running good and suddenly just stopped running? This is how my engine reacted when some teeth stripped on the fiber camshaft timing gear. Maybe a little feedback from the owner on how the engine was acting just prior to when it completely stopped running might help in making a diagnosis of the problem.

jimTN · 09-06-2011, 04:14 PM

Sure sounds like an ignition problem and most likely sparkplug wires in the wrong place. If you know anyone that has a a 32-41 Ford V8 that you could borrow the dist and conduits as a unit, that would be a good way to find out whats wrong. You do not mention any past history of the car, was it running and quit etc? Also, original 37s had a crappy fiber timing gear that could be stripped. That resistor you mentioned must run with a coil for any permanent use or the coil will burn out.

37ford4dr · 09-06-2011, 04:16 PM

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i have never seen a car with proper mechanical synchronization not fire up with spray ether ......it doesnt matter how weak the spark or fuel mixture levels of carb they always fire up and then die off....however if the cam timing is off the car wont start. maybe the cam timing is off from broken teeth or some other issue.

Hoop · 09-06-2011, 05:14 PM

You can check the cam timing by taking out the plugs and watching the valves and pistons.

Between the exhaust and intake stoke the piston will be at top dead center with the exhaust valve just closing and the intake just opening. That will help eliminate that consideration.

(I've never been to Maine. I think Ford Barn road trips would be great.)

nemw001 · 09-06-2011, 05:51 PM

took off muffler and cranked it - still justthe backfiring.

nemw001 · 09-06-2011, 05:53 PM

I am going to take off the timing cover and check for gear alignment or some other issue behind it - will keep all posted.

George/Maine · 09-06-2011, 06:31 PM

Before you do that, some thing to check. Can you see pistons and valves.

The timing of this engine for TDC is when piston 2 and 3 are the same distance to top of block NOTE there is no marks on flywheel.
Mark this on front pulley eye ball location to something else.
Now with a calibrated eye ball back it off about 15degs now turn back to 9.5degs the intake valve should just start to open.OK yes or no
now go to TDC as mark before,now continue to 6.5 degs past TDC, the exhaust closes.If you have NO marks this is what you need to time it.

Kojack · 09-06-2011, 06:57 PM

nemwOO1

Is the cam gear pressed on or bolted to the cam?
If pressed on might have slipped on the cam throwing valve timing off even if crank & cam gears dots are aligned properly.

Not a common thing but a possibility. This is only help I can think of.
You seem to have exhausted all other causes.

PS. The exhaust on this vehicle isn't plugged I hope. Like a plugged up muffler?

Hope This Helps You Kojack

George/Maine · 09-06-2011, 07:36 PM

I think you are 180 out of time.On the compress stroke both 2and 3 even thats the firing postion.Now to check valves you must turn 1 full turn.If you fired there it would blow back thur carb.

37ford4dr · 09-06-2011, 07:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by George/Maine

I think you are 180 out of time.On the compress stroke both 2and 3 even thats the firing postion.Now to check valves you must turn 1 full turn.If you fired there it would blow back thur carb.

are you thinking the cam was indexed wrong when it was put in?

DICK SPADARO · 09-06-2011, 07:55 PM

I see you guys are still on this, I still think its out of time some how. Now before you take a bunch of stuff apart and make a mess, it is easy to check to eliminate the stripped cam gear tooth issue.

Again remove all the spark plugs and slowly rotate the engine so that it is on number one Compression Stroke. Put your finger over the #1 plug hole so you can feel the compression build up as the piston reaches TDC, you can check that by looking in the cylinder and seeing that both valves are closed as you rotate the engine over on the compression stroke, if you pass TDC and you see the exhaust valve open, this means you have gone way too far past TDC.

Backyard mechanics says when you feel the compression pressure stop build up thats close to TDC with no measuring tools. Now you may be able to angle a 1/16" gas welding rod thru the spark plug hole to touch the piston to determine the top of the stroke but it is a tight squeeze. Any way pop off the #1 terminal cap cover and the rotor should be pointing to the number one distributor contact, that's the top left port looking from the passenger side of the engine. Now compare the position of the rotor contact to the terminal contact. If your rotor points significantly above or below that contact then there is an issue. If it is close to pointing to the contacts it will run but poorly. To further check the cam gear position you can again maintain TDC on the piston and then remove the distributor body from the timing cover. In time, the slot in the cam for the distributor drive tang points to the 11'o clock position when viewed from the front, if it does then its pretty much ok, if the slot is in any other position then there is an issue. To check for a stripped tooth simply rotate the engine over another 360* spin and as the piston come up on TDC make sure that the timing slot points to 11 o'clock if it does then that eliminates the stripped tooth with out disassembly, if it doesn't then you will have to do some further investigation.

Hoop · 09-06-2011, 08:04 PM

"Again remove all the spark plugs and slowly rotate the engine so that it is on number one Compression Stroke. Put your finger over the #1 plug hole so you can feel the compression build up as the piston reaches TDC you can check that by looking in the cylinder and seeing that both valves are closed as you rotate the engine over as you pass TDC you will see the exhaust valve open, this means you have gone too far past TDC, back up the rotation until the exhaust valve closes fully."

When does the exhaust valve open????

Incidentally, when the timing gear is installed wrong, you are going to get the wildest readings on your compression tests. If the compression is good and equal, you do not have a timing gear problem.

George/Maine · 09-06-2011, 08:05 PM

Doing the same thing a few times and not working try something new.This is what i think you have,being I have never worked on one,my guess is you are out 180 degs.If some one has a dist the drive slot goes in one way, so to be out 180 the rotor must be on backwards.

DICK SPADARO · 09-06-2011, 08:59 PM

GEORGE/MAINE this is not a SB, at TDC the distributor only goes on one way, it cant be 180 out due to the index of parts, its either in time or it will not assemble. These distributors are sensitive to corroded contacts or incorrect contact gap but since this is a fresh rebuilt distributor its most likely to have the plug wires in the caps installed incorrectly.

37ford4dr · 09-06-2011, 09:16 PM

interesting.....i guess you could be 180* out....since the distributor is driven off the cam if they put the cam in at BTC instead of TDC alignment would be 180* out of synch. i guess some one could have screwed up a rebuild and then walked away from it in frustration.

if it was 180* out wouldnt the compression tests be normal.....at some point in the cycle wouldn't it find two closed valves? or would the two closed valves always happen at BTC?

ken ct · 09-07-2011, 12:56 AM

These dist will go in 180 off,ive had customers sware it went in correctly and busted the housing in doing so. So they can be installed incorrectly and they will bolt up.First rev of the motor and result busted housing. ken ct. I suspect wires are in wrong or he has the wrong inner contact plates.The contact spacing is diff from early helmet to late helmet.

George/Maine · 09-07-2011, 04:25 AM

In post #6 shows cap wiring looking from side top left is 1,top right is 3,lower left is 4,lower right is 2 just like pic.
other side drivers side,top left is 8 top right is 7,lower left is 5,lower right is 6.compair to pic.TDC compression stroke, the inner rotor should be seen pass side at about 11 oclock.IF you don,t see it some thing is backward,Could be rotor on backwards.
I can,t belive there is no dist shown to verifie this.

09-06-2011, 03:27 PM	#41
ken ct BANNED Join Date: May 2010 Location: stratford,ct Posts: 5,971	Re: 1937 No start You must have a blown power valve by now with all that backfireing through the carb. The inner caps wire holes are numbered rt side 1,2,3,4 and you must read these #'s right side up. / Left side rightside up #'s will be 5,6,7,8 these #'s tell you where the wires go.ken ct. Whats the gap at the points with the coil screwed to the dist.

09-06-2011, 03:38 PM	#42
Don Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Ashland KY Posts: 1,159	Re: 1937 No start I think hoop might have something worth checking because ive done that.and there should be no play in timing gears been there also. __________________ DON P

09-06-2011, 03:40 PM	#43
Don Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Ashland KY Posts: 1,159	Re: 1937 No start Hoop might be on to something, been there, __________________ DON P

09-06-2011, 04:04 PM	#44
JM 35 Sedan Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Near Rising Sun, Maryland Posts: 10,858	Re: 1937 No start What kind of info did the owner provide? Was this car sitting for a number of years prior to him trying to start it? Was it possibly running good and suddenly just stopped running? This is how my engine reacted when some teeth stripped on the fiber camshaft timing gear. Maybe a little feedback from the owner on how the engine was acting just prior to when it completely stopped running might help in making a diagnosis of the problem. __________________ *John* *"Never give up on what you really want to do. The person with big dreams is more powerful than one with all the facts". Albert Einstein* Last edited by JM 35 Sedan; 09-06-2011 at 04:10 PM.

09-06-2011, 04:14 PM	#45
jimTN Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Powell, TN Posts: 2,508	Re: 1937 No start Sure sounds like an ignition problem and most likely sparkplug wires in the wrong place. If you know anyone that has a a 32-41 Ford V8 that you could borrow the dist and conduits as a unit, that would be a good way to find out whats wrong. You do not mention any past history of the car, was it running and quit etc? Also, original 37s had a crappy fiber timing gear that could be stripped. That resistor you mentioned must run with a coil for any permanent use or the coil will burn out.

09-06-2011, 04:16 PM	#46
37ford4dr Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2011 Location: arlington va Posts: 185	Re: 1937 No start Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements) i have never seen a car with proper mechanical synchronization not fire up with spray ether ......it doesnt matter how weak the spark or fuel mixture levels of carb they always fire up and then die off....however if the cam timing is off the car wont start. maybe the cam timing is off from broken teeth or some other issue.

09-06-2011, 05:14 PM	#47
Hoop Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Jacksonville FL Posts: 1,137	Re: 1937 No start You can check the cam timing by taking out the plugs and watching the valves and pistons. Between the exhaust and intake stoke the piston will be at top dead center with the exhaust valve just closing and the intake just opening. That will help eliminate that consideration. (I've never been to Maine. I think Ford Barn road trips would be great.) __________________ "Remember that when it comes to intelligence, half of all of us are below average."

09-06-2011, 05:51 PM	#48
nemw001 Junior Member Join Date: Aug 2011 Location: Maine Posts: 23	Re: 1937 No start took off muffler and cranked it - still justthe backfiring.

09-06-2011, 05:53 PM	#49
nemw001 Junior Member Join Date: Aug 2011 Location: Maine Posts: 23	Re: 1937 No start I am going to take off the timing cover and check for gear alignment or some other issue behind it - will keep all posted.

09-06-2011, 06:31 PM	#50
George/Maine Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Mid coast Maine Posts: 1,878	Re: 1937 No start Before you do that, some thing to check. Can you see pistons and valves. The timing of this engine for TDC is when piston 2 and 3 are the same distance to top of block NOTE there is no marks on flywheel. Mark this on front pulley eye ball location to something else. Now with a calibrated eye ball back it off about 15degs now turn back to 9.5degs the intake valve should just start to open.OK yes or no now go to TDC as mark before,now continue to 6.5 degs past TDC, the exhaust closes.If you have NO marks this is what you need to time it.

09-06-2011, 06:57 PM	#51
Kojack Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: East central Wis. city of Ripon Posts: 33	Re: 1937 No start nemwOO1 Is the cam gear pressed on or bolted to the cam? If pressed on might have slipped on the cam throwing valve timing off even if crank & cam gears dots are aligned properly. Not a common thing but a possibility. This is only help I can think of. You seem to have exhausted all other causes. PS. The exhaust on this vehicle isn't plugged I hope. Like a plugged up muffler? Hope This Helps You Kojack

09-06-2011, 07:36 PM	#52
George/Maine Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Mid coast Maine Posts: 1,878	Re: 1937 No start I think you are 180 out of time.On the compress stroke both 2and 3 even thats the firing postion.Now to check valves you must turn 1 full turn.If you fired there it would blow back thur carb.

09-06-2011, 07:55 PM	#54
DICK SPADARO Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Altamont, NY Posts: 1,004	Re: 1937 No start I see you guys are still on this, I still think its out of time some how. Now before you take a bunch of stuff apart and make a mess, it is easy to check to eliminate the stripped cam gear tooth issue. Again remove all the spark plugs and slowly rotate the engine so that it is on number one Compression Stroke. Put your finger over the #1 plug hole so you can feel the compression build up as the piston reaches TDC, you can check that by looking in the cylinder and seeing that both valves are closed as you rotate the engine over on the compression stroke, if you pass TDC and you see the exhaust valve open, this means you have gone way too far past TDC. Backyard mechanics says when you feel the compression pressure stop build up thats close to TDC with no measuring tools. Now you may be able to angle a 1/16" gas welding rod thru the spark plug hole to touch the piston to determine the top of the stroke but it is a tight squeeze. Any way pop off the #1 terminal cap cover and the rotor should be pointing to the number one distributor contact, that's the top left port looking from the passenger side of the engine. Now compare the position of the rotor contact to the terminal contact. If your rotor points significantly above or below that contact then there is an issue. If it is close to pointing to the contacts it will run but poorly. To further check the cam gear position you can again maintain TDC on the piston and then remove the distributor body from the timing cover. In time, the slot in the cam for the distributor drive tang points to the 11'o clock position when viewed from the front, if it does then its pretty much ok, if the slot is in any other position then there is an issue. To check for a stripped tooth simply rotate the engine over another 360* spin and as the piston come up on TDC make sure that the timing slot points to 11 o'clock if it does then that eliminates the stripped tooth with out disassembly, if it doesn't then you will have to do some further investigation. __________________ dickspadaro.com Last edited by DICK SPADARO; 09-07-2011 at 08:48 AM. Reason: clarrification

09-06-2011, 08:04 PM	#55
Hoop Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Jacksonville FL Posts: 1,137	Re: 1937 No start "Again remove all the spark plugs and slowly rotate the engine so that it is on number one Compression Stroke. Put your finger over the #1 plug hole so you can feel the compression build up as the piston reaches TDC you can check that by looking in the cylinder and seeing that both valves are closed as you rotate the engine over as you pass TDC you will see the exhaust valve open, this means you have gone too far past TDC, back up the rotation until the exhaust valve closes fully." When does the exhaust valve open???? Incidentally, when the timing gear is installed wrong, you are going to get the wildest readings on your compression tests. If the compression is good and equal, you do not have a timing gear problem. __________________ "Remember that when it comes to intelligence, half of all of us are below average."

09-06-2011, 08:05 PM	#56
George/Maine Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Mid coast Maine Posts: 1,878	Re: 1937 No start Doing the same thing a few times and not working try something new.This is what i think you have,being I have never worked on one,my guess is you are out 180 degs.If some one has a dist the drive slot goes in one way, so to be out 180 the rotor must be on backwards.

09-06-2011, 08:59 PM	#57
DICK SPADARO Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Altamont, NY Posts: 1,004	Re: 1937 No start GEORGE/MAINE this is not a SB, at TDC the distributor only goes on one way, it cant be 180 out due to the index of parts, its either in time or it will not assemble. These distributors are sensitive to corroded contacts or incorrect contact gap but since this is a fresh rebuilt distributor its most likely to have the plug wires in the caps installed incorrectly. __________________ dickspadaro.com

09-06-2011, 09:16 PM	#58
37ford4dr Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2011 Location: arlington va Posts: 185	Re: 1937 No start interesting.....i guess you could be 180* out....since the distributor is driven off the cam if they put the cam in at BTC instead of TDC alignment would be 180* out of synch. i guess some one could have screwed up a rebuild and then walked away from it in frustration. if it was 180* out wouldnt the compression tests be normal.....at some point in the cycle wouldn't it find two closed valves? or would the two closed valves always happen at BTC? Last edited by 37ford4dr; 09-06-2011 at 09:23 PM.

09-07-2011, 12:56 AM	#59
ken ct BANNED Join Date: May 2010 Location: stratford,ct Posts: 5,971	Re: 1937 No start These dist will go in 180 off,ive had customers sware it went in correctly and busted the housing in doing so. So they can be installed incorrectly and they will bolt up.First rev of the motor and result busted housing. ken ct. I suspect wires are in wrong or he has the wrong inner contact plates.The contact spacing is diff from early helmet to late helmet.

09-07-2011, 04:25 AM	#60
George/Maine Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Mid coast Maine Posts: 1,878	Re: 1937 No start In post #6 shows cap wiring looking from side top left is 1,top right is 3,lower left is 4,lower right is 2 just like pic. other side drivers side,top left is 8 top right is 7,lower left is 5,lower right is 6.compair to pic.TDC compression stroke, the inner rotor should be seen pass side at about 11 oclock.IF you don,t see it some thing is backward,Could be rotor on backwards. I can,t belive there is no dist shown to verifie this.