Rare '40 convertible restoration project

[38bill]

Kube, Have you ever run into the problem of having judges deduct points because your cars look too good?

[Kube]

Originally Posted by 38bill

Kube, Have you ever run into the problem of having judges deduct points because your cars look too good?

Oh yeah... I've never argued as I realize these cars were never built to this degree of quality. I take the deduction with a "grain of salt".
On a personal note, I believe deductions for so called "over restoration" causes harm to the Ford Club. Why? There are so few of restoring cars to this degree, the deductions like these discourage some from doing what "we" do.

[RobR'35]

Very impressive!

[RKS.PA]

Mike, it's good to have you as the Advisor for 1939 and 1940 Fords, per the V8 Times. Can't think of anyone more qualified!!

Dick.

[Fortunateson]

Just read the whole thread; wow. I know a little of the OCD situation as I have a bit of it towards certain things as does my son. Not serious really but if my name is attached to it it has to be really good as I don't do perfect very well but I do do really good. I've paused on my current topic as I couldn't get a panel, that no one would ever see, to align by 1/16 of an inch. I get back to it, find the cure, and then finish it off. Some do good work and others do good enough. The only question I have is regarding the frame, where they gloss from general factory of more satin? Can hardly wait to see the finished product!

[Kube]

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Originally Posted by Fortunateson

Just read the whole thread; wow. I know a little of the OCD situation as I have a bit of it towards certain things as does my son. Not serious really but if my name is attached to it it has to be really good as I don't do perfect very well but I do do really good. I've paused on my current topic as I couldn't get a panel, that no one would ever see, to align by 1/16 of an inch. I get back to it, find the cure, and then finish it off. Some do good work and others do good enough. The only question I have is regarding the frame, where they gloss from general factory of more satin? Can hardly wait to see the finished product!

Good morning!

Your question of frame color is a bit difficult to answer. Why? Well, basically it's because there were no names like "gloss black", "satin black", and most certainly no "chassis black" etc. used by Ford. Rather, there were codes that identified the color specifications.
Now here's where it may get "tricky"- what you perceive as "gloss" may not be the same as what I perceive as "gloss".
What I can assure you of is the frame and miscellaneous chassis parts were painted what would most commonly be referred to nowadays as "gloss black". Those of us who have been fortunate to own one or more extremely well preserved '39 - '40 Fords would surely attest to the fact the black had quite a glossy sheen to it - especially those areas "hidden" well from the elements.
There are of course those that possess decently preserved cars and believe that the dulled black remaining on their frames, etc. was the authentic (or close to) sheen applied at the factory.
This is where it is necessary to understand that the frames, etc. were not painted for aesthetic beauty but rather to offer a (limited) protection against corrosion. As such, the paint, what there was of it, would most certainly fade and / or simply "flake off".

[rotorwrench]

Ford was so into "black" in the model T days that it was even hard in that time frame. There were two formulas just for Japan Black. Which was which has been debated too.


When I think of over restoration, I recall a local restoration shop that welds metal to intersecting body panels & doors in order to get the gaps perfect in his minds eye. Most Ford cars looked very well assembled in photos of products back in the day but I'm sure they had Friday or Monday cars slip by the inspectors at times. The assembly of the sheet metal was done by guys that did it every day with a quota to be made so I'm sure they knew all the tricks to get the fit on any particular model to the acceptable level of QC. They likely knew better than most that no two cars were exactly the same due to body die wear and other differing manufacturing techniques and quirks. If they had the time, they may have assembled them with a bit more perfection but they just plain had to work with what came down the line. I'm sure things haven't changed all that much in that respect, even in todays cars. It's hard to tell what is actually original and what is over done after the picture gets so murky over all the years since.

[35fordtn]

Mike, the car looks great! I personally think over restoration is a silly term.

Your assessment in my opinion of Ford’s black paint used on chassis in engine components is spot on. Take NOS engine pans for example. Those that have been protected from the elements are no doubt a gloss black. The paint technology nowadays is much better and holds a shine for much longer. A little rubbing compound applied to a NOS, or early take off original part usually proves it was originally gloss... with the exception of radiators.

As always excellent job! A Mike Kubarth restoration usually stands out from the crowd!

[Old Redneck]

When I had my 40 judged at the National meet and you were head judge you went out of your way to help me correct what was wrong with the 40 so the next time I had it judge I had all the problems corrected. I want to thank you for your help with my car. I always enjoyed judging with you. you are a good teacher. We need more people like you.

[Kube]

Originally Posted by Old Redneck

When I had my 40 judged at the National meet and you were head judge you went out of your way to help me correct what was wrong with the 40 so the next time I had it judge I had all the problems corrected. I want to thank you for your help with my car. I always enjoyed judging with you. you are a good teacher. We need more people like you.

Wow! You made my evening. Thanks so much for the kind thoughts.
I was having a good day - you just made it great!

Are you going to Dearborn?

[Seth Swoboda]

Kube,

Are you or anyone else working on a new EFV8 Club 1940 book? I hate to say it but the current book is not very good. It lacks a lot in detail and glosses over many items. Compared to the 1935 book it is really not that good.

[Kube]

Originally Posted by Seth Swoboda

Kube,

Are you or anyone else working on a new EFV8 Club 1940 book? I hate to say it but the current book is not very good. It lacks a lot in detail and glosses over many items. Compared to the 1935 book it is really not that good.

Seth, I am working on it and I hate to admit, have been for a number of years now. It has required a huge amount of research and should (my God, I hope so) be worth the wait. I'm getting closer and closer to completing this project.

[Seth Swoboda]

Originally Posted by Kube

Seth, I am working on it and I hate to admit, have been for a number of years now. It has required a huge amount of research and should (my God, I hope so) be worth the wait. I'm getting closer and closer to completing this project.

Thanks Kube. I'm looking forward to it. No doubt it will be 1000% better than what we have now. I also understand the huge amount of work involved.

[Highboy34]

Mike, isn't it true that later 30s era Fords up into the early 40s had various body and frame parts that were dipped in paint rather than sprayed? I'm thinking of frames, inner fender panels, transmission covers, engine pans. In the late seventies I restored a 37 Cabriolet and found NOS inner fender panels on which you could see runs in the original paint, which no doubt occurred when lifted out of the paint tank. I recall reading somewhere that frames were dipped too. Legend or true?

Congrats on another beautiful restoration.

[philipswanson]

How did you prep the frame? I didn't read that in your postings. I ask because my 40 woody has the typical surface rust (from Vermont) all over it but I am not lifting the body off like you. Did you blast it? Can this be done on my car with the body on? I know that darn media will get into everything.

Thanks, Phil Swanson

['36 5W]

I had my frame sandblasted, w/ the body on, back in the late 70s. They did a very
thorough job. Even the center of the X member was stripped bare. (A fact I did not
discover until later!)
The amount of sand I found in the bottom of the doors is another story.

[Kube]

Originally Posted by philipswanson

How did you prep the frame? I didn't read that in your postings. I ask because my 40 woody has the typical surface rust (from Vermont) all over it but I am not lifting the body off like you. Did you blast it? Can this be done on my car with the body on? I know that darn media will get into everything.

Thanks, Phil Swanson

Phil,
I sand blast the frames quite thoroughly. However, they are bare of any and all "attachments".
With it (frame) attached to the body would frighten me. As you realize, that sand will find places you didn't know existed.
I'm not certain how you would go about this process with the body on - at least not in a prudent way.
Sorry, I just cannot envision a way to keep the sand out of places it CAN'T get in to.

[Mart]

^^ Plus there's no way to get the sand to where you do want it.

[Kube]

Originally Posted by Highboy34

Mike, isn't it true that later 30s era Fords up into the early 40s had various body and frame parts that were dipped in paint rather than sprayed? I'm thinking of frames, inner fender panels, transmission covers, engine pans. In the late seventies I restored a 37 Cabriolet and found NOS inner fender panels on which you could see runs in the original paint, which no doubt occurred when lifted out of the paint tank. I recall reading somewhere that frames were dipped too. Legend or true?

Congrats on another beautiful restoration.

My "expertise", if it can be called that, is 1939 - 1940. That being the case, I can't offer any advice of earlier models.
And unfortunately, I can't say with 100% certainty how frames were painted in '39 - '40.
Common engineering / manufacturing sense would dictate to me at least that the frames were dipped and no doubt rotated somehow to avoid runs and "drain" back any excess paint caught in a pocket, etc. I've done a lot of these cars to date and have never found any runs in the factory paint (frame) - although that means little in the way of "proof".
It would require a lot more (wasted) paint to spray the frames and it would be much more difficult to coat all the surfaces properly.
My gut goes with "dipped"... still, I can't say for certain. Sorry.

[V8COOPMAN]

Originally Posted by Kube

My "expertise", if it can be called that, is 1939 - 1940. That being the case, I can't offer any advice of earlier models.
And unfortunately, I can't say with 100% certainty how frames were painted in '39 - '40.
Common engineering / manufacturing sense would dictate to me at least that the frames were dipped and no doubt rotated somehow to avoid runs and "drain" back any excess paint caught in a pocket, etc. I've done a lot of these cars to date and have never found any runs in the factory paint (frame) - although that means little in the way of "proof".
It would require a lot more (wasted) paint to spray the frames and it would be much more difficult to coat all the surfaces properly.
My gut goes with "dipped"... still, I can't say for certain. Sorry.

To add to that.....we know through factory pictures that early Corvette frames were SPRAY-painted with a cheap-ass asphalt-type enamel while standing straight-up on their rear frame horns, and that the MANY runs are definitively apparent as they ran toward the earth. Damned old Fords always did have better factory paint than the Chevies, apparently even on the frames. DD