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Old 12-18-2014, 02:45 PM   #21
George Miller
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Default Re: cleaning out pieces of oil

Things that help make sludge. Cold weather, running the engine to cold, non detergent oil, not changing oil often enough, short trips where the engine does not get warm enough to evaporate the water in the oil.

In real cold weather frost gets on the inside of the engine. When you start it it turns to water and gets in the oil. If you make short trips it never gets hot long enough to get out of the oil. Just keeps adding to the oil.
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Old 12-18-2014, 11:27 PM   #22
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Default Re: cleaning out pieces of oil

And what will you find in oil pan under dipper tray 5# of ! When we change
the oil and add 5qts of oil then we have oil leaks! All that crud takes up space
And causes oil to be over full :-(
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Old 12-19-2014, 06:28 AM   #23
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Default Re: cleaning out pieces of oil

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Originally Posted by George Miller View Post
Things that help make sludge. Cold weather, running the engine to cold, non detergent oil, not changing oil often enough, short trips where the engine does not get warm enough to evaporate the water in the oil.

In real cold weather frost gets on the inside of the engine. When you start it it turns to water and gets in the oil. If you make short trips it never gets hot long enough to get out of the oil. Just keeps adding to the oil.
Frost you say? This is why I wish I had heated storage.
And, this was taken a month ago, with several months of winter ahead.
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Old 12-19-2014, 08:45 AM   #24
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Default Re: cleaning out pieces of oil

Thats it that is how they looked in Northern Mich.

What kind of engine. Ford 6. Plymouth had the dist on the pass side, I think.
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Old 12-19-2014, 08:52 AM   #25
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Default Re: cleaning out pieces of oil

I will also say, if the valve chamber is that bad, what is in the oil tubes to the mains? Customer called this morning that has a car that sat for 10 or 12 years. First thing, it lost the center main. Fell completely out and I attribute it to dry oil caked in the tube. I have had several lately with this problem. Most times I also find pits in the cylinder walls where condensation sits and makes rust that gets wiped off leaving pits. Remedy--- complete rebuild.

I also agree with Tom and George.
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Old 12-19-2014, 11:13 AM   #26
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OK..gotta chime in with my war story.

My father had a friend the swore by "Golden Motor Honey" back in the 60's. It was sort of like STP.

When he burned up the engine in his 61 Buick and we pulled the pan, you could stick the dipstick in the sluge in the pan and it would stand upright.

I never used any oil additive after seeing that.

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Old 12-19-2014, 12:06 PM   #27
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Default Re: cleaning out pieces of oil

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Thats it that is how they looked in Northern Mich.

What kind of engine. Ford 6. Plymouth had the dist on the pass side, I think.
That's my 1950 Champion engine. It looks better with the correct steel vacuum line and no frost on it.

I have my Model A engine setting with no head on it through the winter, and will keep an eye on the cylinders. I gave them a good oil coating a month ago, but it looks dry now.
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Old 12-19-2014, 12:18 PM   #28
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That's my 1950 Champion engine. It looks better with the correct steel vacuum line and no frost on it.

I have my Model A engine setting with no head on it through the winter, and will keep an eye on the cylinders. I gave them a good oil coating a month ago, but it looks dry now.
I did not work on any champion engines. Did work on a Golden Hawk.

I Noticed when I moved South in 1974 the engines lasted longer than in northern Mich. I always felt it was because the engines ran at a better temperature. Not sure that is true. But they had a lot more trouble with valve seals. They would smoke when you cranked them up.

I also noticed they did not rust out like the north. But the interiors did not last like they did in the cool North.
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Old 12-19-2014, 12:27 PM   #29
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George, that Champion engine is the 170 cu in 6 that Stude made for years and years. It is made like a brick s**thouse. They added blowers and raced them at Bonneville. The bottom end is like Gibraltar. I am working on one right now, adding a dual carb intake and a bunch of other goodies
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Old 12-19-2014, 12:29 PM   #30
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Default Re: cleaning out pieces of oil

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I think Mr. Rogers's diagnosis is exactly correct with his reply #8.

I had an early 1970's car that developed a connecting rod knock. Drove into a large inner-city engine rebuild shop ..... owner/mechanic immediately told me, (without asking), that I was using Quaker State oil made with Pennsylvania Crude.

Told him the former owner recommended it so I did use it. Owner/mechanic then showed me about 20 removed oil pans on display in his lobby full of thick crud from customers who had formerly always used Quaker State oil.

Then he showed about 20 "immaculate" oil pans from customers using his recommended Castrol GTX oil.

When he removed my oil pan, the bottom of the oil pan looked like a group of experimental chickens on a Milk of Magnesia diet had been roosting on my crankshaft for (5) years .............. without diapers.

Have no idea if Quaker State later changed their oil formula because with this one poultry droppings experience I did not buy any oil from them in about 40 years.

FUNNY

The Ford garage I worked at in the 70's----- we saw the VERY same thing w/ Pennsylvania crude based oils. Even today I walk past that stuff on the shelf at a fast pace and head for the good stuff. Remember in the early 80's when GM had all that trouble with camshafts going south with people using Quaker State? Chevy mechanic friends always told me that they never saw a problem with people using other oils. Only Q.S.

The service manager and the top two Ford mechanics at the local dealership always told us back then, that Havoline, Phillips Trop Artic, Castrol, Conoco, Union 76, Shell, Sunoco, and Ford Motorcraft were 'long distance' oils and they always recommended that people choose from them.

Maybe today is different but the horror story engines I saw them tearing apart with the 'other' brands of oil stuck in my mind, forever

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Old 12-19-2014, 01:00 PM   #31
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Default Re: cleaning out pieces of oil

Yep, I have the same stories about that oil. In the 60's whenever I pulled a valve cover and saw sludge or waxy buildup, the boss would say "look on the door jam and you will see a Quaker State or Pennzoil sticker", and he was right. In the late 70's or early 80's several engine failures in the midwest were blamed on Quaker State oil, and they wound up footing the bill. It was jelling up in cold weather.

My dad bought a new 1970 Pontiac Catalina with a 400 V8 and always used Pennzoil in it. My brother borrowed the car one weekend and burned an intake valve. (my brother can destroy anything) When I pulled the intake and heads, that engine with 181,000 miles looked as clean as a brand new engine, and the cylinder walls still had a crosshatch pattern. The valves were all as snug in the guides as a new engine would be. My dad always changed oil while the engine was hot and changed it every 2000 miles. After seeing this I had to change my thoughts about Pennzoil being all bad.
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Old 12-19-2014, 05:57 PM   #32
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Default Re: cleaning out pieces of oil

Wow, never heard this before. I always thought it was because the oil wasn't changed in a timely manner. I was always told, Pennsylvania crude oil was the best you could buy!
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Old 12-19-2014, 10:39 PM   #33
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Default Re: cleaning out pieces of oil

Consider the volume of air pumped through the engine. This sludge is probably a result of poor oil choice and change habits for sure but also a result of running without an air filter.

An oil analysis on that would have silicon (as in silica, sand) as the number one constituent.
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Old 12-20-2014, 07:39 AM   #34
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Default Re: cleaning out pieces of oil

Shell oil company did a pamplet at one time that compared chemical composition of different oils. This was in the early 70's but, includes oils used through the 50's and 60's. The conclusion was Pennsylvania crudes (Quaker State, Pennzoil) were contaminated with lots of non recoverable coal oil by products and were prone to grunge up the motor with heat cycles. The Texas oils (Havoline, Valvoline) were cleaner because of the absence of coal and other contaminants and the soil is more sandy and clay. The middle eastern oils (Castroil) were the best since there are no non recoverable contaminants and the crude comes from a sandy soil. This research was published in several magazines including Readers Digest, where I first saw it. The problems with the Pennsylvania oils are compounded when the oil is not changed often. Now days the oils are much better and regulated so that the Pennsylvania oils are as good as any on the market however, no oil is flawless and all need to be changed regularly.
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Old 12-20-2014, 09:38 AM   #35
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Default Re: cleaning out pieces of oil

I always believed the Pennzoil hype and used it when I was a teen and a bit afterwards. I don't think there is much real PA oil used nowadays. I don't think either Pennzoil or Quaker State are PA oils anymore.
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Old 12-27-2014, 03:01 PM   #36
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Default Re: cleaning out pieces of oil

Looks like that caked oil didn't do much lubricating.
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Old 12-27-2014, 03:13 PM   #37
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Default Re: cleaning out pieces of oil

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Looks like that caked oil didn't do much lubricating.
fiddlybits,

This is why I mentioned in my previous post (#3) that what you are seeing in the valve chamber likely contains bearing babbitt material.

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Old 12-27-2014, 03:33 PM   #38
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Shim it with some lutefisk and you'll be good as new.
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Old 12-27-2014, 10:36 PM   #39
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Wow, never seen anything like that before.
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