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Old 03-21-2015, 07:18 PM   #1
DWester
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Default Fuel pump rod and pump issue

I have a 47 Merc block with the 8ba rotating system. I bought the 59ab pump rod that's 8 7/8 long and when I installed the pump housing and pump, I noticed the rod doesn't make it up to the pump lever. I'm guessing that either there's a shorter housing or I need another pump????? I have the cast iron manifold.

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Old 03-21-2015, 07:22 PM   #2
DWester
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Default Re: Fuel pump rod and pump issue

Maybe this one??? It's 47-48.

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Old 03-21-2015, 07:59 PM   #3
scooder
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Default Re: Fuel pump rod and pump issue

What type of cast iron inlet you got on there? What style "pump housing"?
If you have an 8BA type manifold and pump mount, the 59A pump pushrod is too short. The 59A used a oil fill/pump mounting arrangement. This has the pump sitting quite low down in comparison to the 8BA setup. The 59A pump mount won't work with an 8BA manifold, the pump wants the space occupied by the rear manifold runner, the 8BA pump mount kicks the pump to the side to clear the runner, also raises the pump. You can't use a stock 8BA pump pushrod as it won't fit in the bushing in the block.
You could turn down the lower solid part of the 8BA pushrod to 59A size but keep the length at 8BA length.
A 59A and earlier pump mounting pad is also different to 8BA, it will bolt on but doesn't cover the opening in the mount.
You gotta remember, all early Ford stuff is interchangeable, except the parts you have to hand.
Martin.
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Old 03-21-2015, 08:12 PM   #4
DWester
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Default Re: Fuel pump rod and pump issue

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Originally Posted by scooder View Post
What type of cast iron inlet you got on there? What style "pump housing"?

You could turn down the lower solid part of the 8BA pushrod to 59A size but keep the length at 8BA length.
.
I couldn't tell you which manifold it is. I'm new to this and learning more every day. The pump mount is aluminum and approximately 3 3/4 inches tall. The manifold is 2 1/2 inches tall from the bottom, and up to where the pump housing mounts. I like the idea of turning down the 8ba rod. Think I'll take that path.

Thanks Scooder!!
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Old 03-22-2015, 04:24 AM   #5
JWL
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Default Re: Fuel pump rod and pump issue

I have encountered the problem of the tall 8BA pump mounting(aluminum) housing on a 59A style engine. I welded an extension on the 59A pushrod of about a 5/8" diameter(so centering wasn't critical) then chucked the pushrod in the lathe and machined the new end piece to the correct 8BA diameter.
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Old 03-22-2015, 06:26 AM   #6
scooder
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Default Re: Fuel pump rod and pump issue

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If you go for the turning down method, an 8BA pushrod is a three piece affair, that's pushed together. It has a short solid section on the top, a hollow middle section and a long solid section on the bottom. They can normally be separated by just twisting apart with pliers, but you don't have to seperate the sections, this is just an observation.
Obviously it's the long solid section that gets turned down.
You using the 8BA pump mount then? It's just a pump mount, rather than a pump mount and oil fill combined.
8BA manifolds have the carb tipped at an angle forward in relation to the block mounting surface of the manifold. Also has provision for oil fill tube and breather pipe at the front left on the manifold. Normally has 8BA-8RT cast in the top.
Or is it a pre 8BA Canadian manifold, this has provision for an oil fill tube at the front right.
Just trying to clarify what you got, as if your using the 8BA pump mount, you need somewhere to fill with oil. Also pre 8BA and 8BA have different crank case breathing set ups, and this would need addressing to work correctly. It's not difficult, but needs sorting.
If you could post some pics that would be great.
Martin.
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Old 03-22-2015, 09:27 AM   #7
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Default Re: Fuel pump rod and pump issue

After reading your post, it's definitely an 8ba manifold. The carb seat is tilted forward and it has both breather tube and oil fill hole at front left. As far as the crankcase breathing setup, this one also has the oil pan vent from the 59ab at front right. Would there be an issue with both?
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Old 03-22-2015, 10:07 AM   #8
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Default Re: Fuel pump rod and pump issue

Quote:
Originally Posted by JWL View Post
I have encountered the problem of the tall 8BA pump mounting(aluminum) housing on a 59A style engine. I welded an extension on the 59A pushrod of about a 5/8" diameter(so centering wasn't critical) then chucked the pushrod in the lathe and machined the new end piece to the correct 8BA diameter.
Thanks JWL. I'll consider that also. Always nice to have more than one trick in the bag.
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Old 03-22-2015, 06:13 PM   #9
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Default Re: Fuel pump rod and pump issue

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Originally Posted by DWester View Post
After reading your post, it's definitely an 8ba manifold. The carb seat is tilted forward and it has both breather tube and oil fill hole at front left. As far as the crankcase breathing setup, this one also has the oil pan vent from the 59ab at front right. Would there be an issue with both?
I have fitted an 8BA manifold to an earlier engine. It breaths as the 8BA setup is ment to, my sump hasn't got the little triangle breather on the pan, the sump is off a military engine that had a PCV.
As I'm sat here I can't for the life of me remember what I had to modify to make it work as it should.
The inlet gasket is an 8BA so the oil fill and road draft are isolated, ad they should be, otherwise the road draft would just pull the air down the oil fill tube and straight back out the road draft, this would not ventilate the crank case properly.
Sure I did something down inside by the 59A little road draft breather.
Unfortunately as I said, just plain can't remember.
CRS kicked in.
Sorry,
Martin.
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Old 03-22-2015, 09:23 PM   #10
Walt Dupont--Me.
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Default Re: Fuel pump rod and pump issue

Darol. If you pick up a 58AB intake you'll bypass all this trouble. That pipe in the front of the valve spring area, the 59 pipe is about 1/8in. below the gasket surface, that goes right down to the breather hole in the right front of the pan, the 8BA pipe sticks up about 1/8 above the gasket and goes into a hole in the intake and goes out the breather pipe in the front of the intake. To use that intake you should block the pan breather and us an 8BA pipe under the intake. The easier thing to do is put a 7/16 plug in the hole where the fuel pump push rod goes and just make a plate to cover where the fuel pump stand bolted and use an electric fuel pump. Remember where going to have a test after you get that engine in the truck. I hope you get it in before the balls of hey get wet in the field. LOL Walt
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Old 03-22-2015, 09:25 PM   #11
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Default Re: Fuel pump rod and pump issue

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Originally Posted by scooder View Post
The inlet gasket is an 8BA so the oil fill and road draft are isolated, ad they should be, otherwise the road draft would just pull the air down the oil fill tube and straight back out the road draft, this would not ventilate the crank case properly.
.
I'm curious what you mean by, "The oil fill and road draft are isolated"? They are somewhat close to each other.
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Old 03-23-2015, 02:55 AM   #12
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Default Re: Fuel pump rod and pump issue

Darol,
Walt's post above explained how the two are isolated. If you look at the underside of an 8BA inlet and gasket, and compare a 59A inlet and gasket, you'll see what we're talking about.
I do agree with Walt, the easiest way out, is to use a 59A type inlet manifold.
Martin.
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Old 03-23-2015, 07:07 PM   #13
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Talking Re: Fuel pump rod and pump issue

Quote:
Originally Posted by Walt Dupont--Me. View Post
Darol. If you pick up a 58AB intake you'll bypass all this trouble. That pipe in the front of the valve spring area, the 59 pipe is about 1/8in. below the gasket surface, that goes right down to the breather hole in the right front of the pan, the 8BA pipe sticks up about 1/8 above the gasket and goes into a hole in the intake and goes out the breather pipe in the front of the intake. To use that intake you should block the pan breather and us an 8BA pipe under the intake. The easier thing to do is put a 7/16 plug in the hole where the fuel pump push rod goes and just make a plate to cover where the fuel pump stand bolted and use an electric fuel pump. Remember where going to have a test after you get that engine in the truck. I hope you get it in before the balls of hey get wet in the field. LOL Walt
My appologies Walt. I posted a minute or two after you did and didn't see your post until Martin said something. Thank you for the clear explanation.

I'll tell ya, what I'll be looking forward to after this one is working on a flathead that isn't jumbled up with various years of parts. Though, I'm learning quite a bit more because of it I guess. Looking forward to the test Walt.
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